Topic: Defensive options

[PhaseOfPlay]

I want to see Can in back three, even if it's just for a friendly.

Good God, no.

You don't put a player like Can in the defence. He could literally be the ignition for a very good midfield. Henderson as the wheels. Gerrard or Coutinho as the navigators.

[Latenight Surfer]

Sakho can't be that reckless, didn't even pick up a booking last season for us.

I am not talking about bookings mate. I am talking about the two footed tackles and sliding for the ball straightaway without being too sure of whether or not he can reach for it. It's that he executes it well, I agree but these are the sort of areas you need to control in your game if you are to become more composed. It is just that he has taken(ing) his time to adjust maybe, but he has shown those Ramos-like tendencies in his game which might not always be the right option.

[trembles97]

Other than would probably cut out at least half his goals.

Wouldn't be on a regular basis though, Rodgers has shown he's willing to change shape on a game to game basis.

Even so, with Sturridge, Markovic, Coutinho, Lallana, Lambert, in addition to a new signing, there are other sources for goals. Actually think Raheem back there would improve the right side of our defence as well.

[Chris~]

Good God, no.

You don't put a player like Can in the defence. He could literally be the ignition for a very good midfield. Henderson as the wheels. Gerrard or Coutinho as the navigators.

Friendlies should be in part for trying new things. Rodgers should go full Guardiola for one of them. Can at the back, do that stupid false fullback thing with Henderson and someone else, Johnson and the base of midfield.

[CraigDS]

I am not talking about bookings mate. I am talking about the two footed tackles and sliding for the ball straightaway without being too sure of whether or not he can reach for it. It's that he executes it well, I agree but these are the sort of areas you need to control in your game if you are to become more composed. It is just that he has taken(ing) his time to adjust maybe, but he has shown those Ramos-like tendencies in his game which might not always be the right option.

Again, if he is making two footed tackles then he is doing well to not even pick up a single booking for us.

I agree he goes in early, but got a feeling this is one thing Rodgers likes about him. Some of our defenders have a habit of backing off a lot and inviting more and more pressure on. It's a trait Lovren has too from what I've seen.

[Latenight Surfer]

I want to see Can in back three, even if it's just for a friendly.

Wouldn't hate Sterling at wingback if we decided to play 3 at the back.

And the third wish is.... the genie is waiting? 

[Latenight Surfer]

Again, if he is making two footed tackles then he is doing well to not even pick up a single booking for us.

I agree he goes in early, but got a feeling this is one thing Rodgers likes about him. Some of our defenders have a habit of backing off a lot and inviting more and more pressure on. It's a trait Lovren has too from what I've seen.

Any defenders first instinct would be to position himself well to be able to be in a position where he can go for a standing tackle, if that is not the case then he has to improve it first. I am sure that last season our defense's porous nature has got to do more with the positioning than anything else. So, it depends on how the back-line is assembling itself and how well organized it is, so that your CBs don't get exposed too often with acres of space behind them or in some cases them might find themselves in a position where they have to track back at least 5-10 yards to win the ball back. In cases like these the defender generally would go for a last ditch effort to win the ball.

We all have seen a lot Skrtel-dashing last season, which is down to this lack of proper organization in many matches. So, I think it's not that Sakho does that as it is in his nature but because he is adept at coming out with the ball more often than not, but I guess in the UCL we have to be much more sharper which would require the positional sense to be intact and in that case Sakho should be looking to position himself better first, than anything else which would inevitably depend on the whole back line's organization and that is where Lovren comes into the equation I suppose.

[Los back. Thanks.]

we need to sell Toure and keep everyone else.

Agger-Skrtel-Lovren-Sakho for 2 places is mindblowing

It is, but it's also the source of the problem. Someone's going to be unhappy, have a feeling it'll be Agger, which kills me as he's my favorite player behind Stevie.

It's really difficult, I would personally love to see Lovren and Agger partnered, but at the same time Skrtel and Sakho seems a bit disastrous. I think ultimately for me it's Lovren Sakho in the League, Agger Skrtel interest cups.

Kolo needs to go.... People keep going on about experience but what good is experience if he's a liability (think West Brom).

Johnson needs to be moved on while we still have the chance. "He needs time to sort his head out" is something I've been hearing for over a year. I don't even think it's a motivational issue, I honestly think he's lost it. I used to love Johnson, but if you can't get motivated off of a 2nd place finish in the league and CL, then there's something else at play. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

I think Enrique is a keeper. He's a very good squad option, he just doesn't get turned or muscled of the ball. That being said, I want Moreno in, and they can rotate.


I rate Flanno very highly, I think he just needs some competition from another young lad such as Manquillo (don't know how to spell his name) and we could see very rapid progression.

Don't see it in Kelly. Illori needs a loan, or a run out in the cups, but we're stocked....
Coates needs to be moved on. He's a great player that doesn't deserve to be stagnating at a club where he'll probably never get the chance.

Just my .02

[elpistolero7]

Wouldn't hate Sterling at wingback if we decided to play 3 at the back.

Might be our best attacking asset next season like...

[rickardinho1]

Does any other team in the league have our quality and depth at CB?

We have 5 full internationals, 2 top young potential beasts, along with several solid homegrowns who could come good, which compares really well with other sides, both in quality and in depth (not to mention age).

Liverpool: Lovren, Sakho, Skrtel, Agger, Toure, Ilori, Coates, Kelly, L. Jones, Paez
Arsenal: Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Chambers
Chelsea: Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Zouma, Kalas, Ake, Blackman
Man United: Phil Jones, Evans, Smalling, Keane
Man City: Kompany, (Mangala), Nastasic, Demichelis, Rekik, Boyata, Micah Richards

With this in mind I doubt we'll need to buy another CB for another couple of seasons, especially considering that we've signed 3 good young CB's in the last year now.

[jepovic]

Does any other team in the league have our quality and depth at CB?

We have 5 full internationals, 2 top young potential beasts, along with several solid homegrowns who could come good, which compares really well with other sides, both in quality and in depth (not to mention age).

Liverpool: Lovren, Sakho, Skrtel, Agger, Toure, Ilori, Coates, Kelly, L. Jones, Paez
Arsenal: Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Chambers
Chelsea: Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Zouma, Kalas, Ake, Blackman
Man United: Phil Jones, Evans, Smalling, Keane
Man City: Kompany, (Mangala), Nastasic, Demichelis, Rekik, Boyata, Micah Richards

With this in mind I doubt we'll need to buy another CB for another couple of seasons, especially considering that we've signed 3 good young CB's in the last year now.

Looks good, although it's unlikely that they all stay. I wouldn't dare to do the same comparison with FBs, though.

[rickardinho1]

Looks good, although it's unlikely that they all stay. I wouldn't dare to do the same comparison with FBs, though.

Even if Agger left for example we'd still look decent. City have plugged their biggest gap by signing Mangala so they look strong, as do Chelsea, but on the brightside Arsenal could be vulnerable with an injury, and United have by far the weakest group of CB's - quite possible even worse than Everton and Spurs at the moment too.

Fullbacks is an altogether other story though as you say, where we probably have the worst group of any of the top 7 (bar Spurs). Not even gonna bother listing it out, we all know we're shit there.

[iamnant]

At the moment, I'd go:


Kelly-----Lovren------Sakho------Enrique


Johnson is out of form.

Flanagan is good but still makes too many errors and gets beaten too easily for my liking.  Although he's getting better all the time.

Skrtel will challeneg the other two centre backs

Enrique is one of the best defensive left backs around.

I think Kelly is doing well in pre season and might be our best option at right back.

Err, don't wanna be *that guy* but how have you come to the conclusion that Kelly has had a good pre season and how could he possibly get in the team before Flanno? Not trying to be a sarcy bastard, just genuinely asking.

[LiverBirdKop]

If Fowler could guarantee us that Kelly would not get injured all season.....I'd say alternate both of them. I just hope Martin doesn't get hurt again with all that running at right back.

[Chakan]

If Fowler could guarantee us that Kelly would not get injured all season.....I'd say alternate both of them. I just hope Martin doesn't get hurt again with all that running at right back.

69 appearances in 5 years. Odds aren't with him being fit till the end of the season.

[LiverBirdKop]

69 appearances in 5 years. Odds aren't with him being fit till the end of the season.

Yeah, it's very unfortunate. He'd be a heck of a player for us if he could stay fit (and play a more natural position for someone his size).

He's probably the tallest "right back" in the world.

[Sarge]

RB/Flanagan   Lovren/Skrtel      Sakho/Agger/Ilori      LB/Enrique

Johnson, Coates, Toure & Kelly will not be around much longer you feel.

[LiverBirdKop]

RB/Flanagan   Lovren/Skrtel      Sakho/Agger/Ilori      LB/Enrique

Johnson, Coates, Toure & Kelly will not be around much longer you feel.

Is that previously-secret insider info. Sarge? 

And why can't Kelly get a go at CB? (rhetorical question unless you know something us outsiders or Not In the Knows don't know).

[Sarge]

Is that previously-secret insider info. Sarge? 

And why can't Kelly get a go at CB? (rhetorical question unless you know something us outsiders don't).

Kelly lets be honest has done nothing in 3 years and i do not think he is up to our standard.

[sattapaartridge]

Still need that left back. Enrique has actually been okay during pre-season, but he can definitely be improved on. Centreback wise, we are surely, surely complete there right?

Fullbacks need improving, but Flanagan should be a definite starter next year ahead of any of the current batch.

[fowlermagic]

Guess our defence starts with pressure from the top down and last season we were great at that. CM had their moments but thought they were a bit soft centred at times thus leading to the odd panic attack which became the hari kari of defending when really put under the microscope. So I can see Can becoming central to our plans as I don't think our backline will be the strongest out there in terms of straight up defending. Brendan likes the full backs to get forward and the more creative CD who is comfy on the ball but might struggle to fill the shoes of a Sami. We will see but expect something like this to get the most run outs next season

Johnson Lovren Sakho Enrique

The good news is competition should be heated so hope the standards are kept high and the clean sheets are a little more regular than last season.

[DanA]

I think we've said Toure can leave on a free and was linked to a Qatar club. Think an MLS club like New York would do well getting him.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Need a right-back and a left-back. Johnson is the biggest concern and has been for the last 18 months

[rickardinho1]

I think we've said Toure can leave on a free and was linked to a Qatar club. Think an MLS club like New York would do well getting him.

When has that been said, and by who? This is the first time I've read that, though it wouldn't surprise me if it were true given his age and mere 12 months left on his contract.

[PIPA23]

i think we will start most of the matches like this:

Johnson -- Skrtel --- Lovren -- Enrique

with Flanagan playing either LB or RB as competition for both Enrique and Johnson, with Sakho coming in for Skrtel...

as much as i look forward to Sakho - Lovren, if Skrtel is fit, there is no way he wonīt start imo.

[PIPA23]

Does any other team in the league have our quality and depth at CB?

We have 5 full internationals, 2 top young potential beasts, along with several solid homegrowns who could come good, which compares really well with other sides, both in quality and in depth (not to mention age).

Liverpool: Lovren, Sakho, Skrtel, Agger, Toure, Ilori, Coates, Kelly, L. Jones, Paez
Arsenal: Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Chambers
Chelsea: Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Zouma, Kalas, Ake, Blackman
Man United: Phil Jones, Evans, Smalling, Keane
Man City: Kompany, (Mangala), Nastasic, Demichelis, Rekik, Boyata, Micah Richards

With this in mind I doubt we'll need to buy another CB for another couple of seasons, especially considering that we've signed 3 good young CB's in the last year now.

Kalas is on loan to Koln and Kelly never played as a CB, so he shouldnīt be in that list tbf. United will definitely buy a new CB as well.. also Richards isnīt a CB for city and i canīt remember him playing as one...in like years. Boyata the same, but iīm not so sure.

[rickardinho1]

Kalas is on loan to Koln and Kelly never played as a CB, so he shouldnīt be in that list tbf. United will definitely buy a new CB as well.. also Richards isnīt a CB for city and i canīt remember him playing as one...in like years. Boyata the same, but iīm not so sure.

You're absolutely right across the board, but I just felt like being thorough. Didn't know about Kalas though, thanks for letting me know

Ivanovic hasn't played at CB for a long time either (certainly not since Cahill came in) but I included him too just for the purpose of considering depth.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

I like Skrtel, but you're not signing a 16 - 20 million pound centre back as backup, so unless Lovren performs horribly in the first few games, he'll be tried out with Sakho.

Johnson really doesn't fill me with confidence, considering the quality of the attack I would have liked to have seen a more solid, defensively minded right back given a chance, perhaps even Wisdom but he's gone. Flanno is ok, certainly looks to have given himself a shot at a career here after looking down and out for a period, but I don't want him as first choice there, give him games, rotate him out, train him, improve him etc, at his age you're cutting down on the chance to improve through traning if he plays every game. You need a balance between games and training.

Who else is there....is Manquillo done? Is he good enough to come right in and rotate with flanno?

Johnson     Lovren    Sakho     Enrique

but the fullback area needs serious work.

[RainbowFlick]

I think Skrtel might be used interchangeably for when we need that sort of "street" defender for some additional physicality. I'm not sure Lovren fits that model as I've not seen much of him.

I'd imagine it'd be

Jose Enrique - Sakho - Lovren - Glenn Johnson

But ideally both full backs are upgraded (Glenn as a priority).

[Zoomers]

I think Skrtel and Lovren would be a superb partnership. If we're being counter attacked (which is where we usually lose our shit) Lovren would sit back and position himself intelligently while Skrtel attacks people coming at them.

[rickardinho1]

I think Skrtel and Lovren would be a superb partnership. If we're being counter attacked (which is where my usually lose our shit) Lovren would sit back and position himself intelligently while Skrtel attacks people coming at them.

If that was the partnership I think it would be the other way around with Lovren stepping up and Skrtel dropping deep as he likes to. I think it's more likely that we'll see Sakho Lovren partnered though.

[Zoomers]

If that was the partnership I think it would be the other way around with Lovren stepping up and Skrtel dropping deep as he likes to. I think it's more likely that we'll see Sakho Lovren partnered though.

Really? Of the glimpses I've seen from Lovren, he's the one who drops back and he does it very intelligently.

[robgomm]

Skrtel is not a front foot defender, he often gives away free kicks making challenges higher up the pitch.

[rickardinho1]

Really? Of the glimpses I've seen from Lovren, he's the one who drops back and he does it very intelligently.

He might look good in the few instances where he drops back but he is most definitely a front-foot defender, absolutely no doubt about it.

Check out Neville and carraghers analysis of him on MNF if you don't believe me, it's on youtube (just search "Lovren MNF", the user is tikitakaLFC I think)

[PhaseOfPlay]

Only just seen the MNF thing.

Excellent points throughout. Why anyone was ever against the signing of Lovren is beyond me. Does all of the fundamentals of defending to a high level.

[Haggis36]

For me?
New RB, Lovren, Sakho, New LB 

Skrtel and one or two of Ilori/Toure/Coates as cover. Presuming Ilori will go out on loan so really it's between Toure and Coates.
Agger will most likely be sold, he's already been moaning about his gametime, he's only likely to moan more next season as I fancy him to get even less games. Given his injury record, age and wages I think he's the leading candidate for being moved on which is probably best for all involved. You can't keep Skrtel and Agger with the wages they are on in the knowledge that one (if not both) are not first choice.

At full back is a little more difficult. Johnson's decline is both alarming and massive fucking problem for us and I genuinely worry for whatever reason he will be our RB in the first game of the season which is ridiculous because in terms of form and current quality he's a rung or two below anyone else in our team. Flanagan can obviously play there but I wouldn't want to rely on him for a 50+ game season.

Enrique will probably stick around if only for the fact that I don't see who would come in for him, but again I don't think he should be our first choice given that he isn't exactly an intelligent footballer or the type to follow instructions (be it from the manager or his defensive colleagues) but he's a decent enough left back.

Think Kelly and Robinson are in last chance saloon - think we'd happily sell both if offers came in but I doubt they will and so who knows what will happen with them. The fact we asked Johnson to play for weeks with an injury (and was in atrocious form either as a result or just anyway) when Kelly was "fit" and available doesn't exactly bode well for the lad.

It's the most bloated area of our squad so I expect to see 3-4 moved on, be it on loan or permanently.

[kcbworth]

we need to sell Toure and keep everyone else.

Agger-Skrtel-Lovren-Sakho for 2 places is mindblowing

+ Ilori and Coates (and Kelly)

[fowlermagic]

Guess this is the time to really look at what we can improve on in the first team so some of the issues from last season can be improved on. Once the window closes those we should have bought / sold will be here and will have to be relied upon to ensure what happened last season wont happen again without every stone getting turned over. There was key moments last season that you could highlight that may have meant the difference...starting four centre backs against Southampton and the whole team having an off day, unable to beat a 10 man Newcastle, a really poor showing against Hull...a wee list of what ifs and where it may have gone wrong will surely help us build on what we have already.

We showed a lack of creativity (or depth of) when some players were out injured/off form so adding depth to the squad is key and we are definitely doing that with the addition of Markovic, Lallana & Lambert (even more to come I feel).

On the defensive side the team as a whole have to hold their hands up and say not good enough. From the goalie to the forwards we can do better in terms of keeping clean sheets as everyone has a responsibility whether it be poor marking on a corner, lack of pressure on the opposition defenders with the ball or a soft belly down the centre...overall the team needs to double the clean sheets from last season.

We put ourselves into the driving seat last season with three games to go. After some tremendous work and a great run of 11 wins in a row you could say our nemesis of unable to keep a clean sheet or keep it tight at least was our downfall. As I highlighted above there was other moments during the season that cost us as well but once you start picking up the pieces when we failed to clinch the title you only have to go back 2 or 3 games to see some glaring issues that were part of our failure to make dreams a reality.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

Our CB options are good. We need a better RB though. Johnson is not up to the task I am afraid.