Topic: The Philippe Coutinho Thread

[Davidbowie]

Now of course, the season is only halfway through and Coutinho hopefully will come good in the second half of it, but most people can see that he hasn't hit the heights of last season - but why is that?

Coutinho is deployed mainly on the left side of our 3-pronged attack and the player himself has said that he sees his strongest position in the middle, just behind the forward, but are Coutinho's attributes completely wasted out on the left or is it that the player himself isn't giving his all?

Last season Coutinho had 5 or 6 assists and was renowned amongst us reds for being able to thread a superb through-ball with regularity - the hammering of Newcastle springs to mind. However that doesn't seem to be the case this season, I can't actively recall any eye-catching assists, or through balls to Suarez/Sturridge and I can only gather that the switch of position to the left side must have had a negative impact on the player if not the team.

Also, the players ability to finish is really not great at all. He is very profligate. We've all seen him drag shots wide when it looks easier to score, and when he does hit the target, it generally is a weak effort that won't trouble the keeper. 2 goals from 59 attempts goes some way to proving this.

So is it a case of the players ability being under utilized out of position, or is it that Coutinho himself needs to adapt his game.. and at the very least to work on his finishing.

[TheGOAT]

Now of course, the season is only halfway through and Coutinho hopefully will come good in the second half of it

He's playing good now. He was called "quiet" at Spurs yet was vital on 3 of the goals. He's doing fine though hasn't quite hit the level he did last season.

[Red_Irishman]

Hes doing fine, fantastic little player obviously. Needs work on his finishing thats it.

The lad is still only 21. Amazing.

[Zlen]

Teams are much, much tighter on him and he's a bit impatient and sloppy with his shooting.
Other then that still a joy to watch.

[Barney_Rubble]

Maybe guilty of trying too hard?

Think he's been eclipsed somewhat by Sterling, who would probably be most people's choice to retain his place alongside Suarez and Sturridge.

The rest will probably do him good.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I think he's playing very well. He's missed some good chances, but then we were whining about Suarez' finishing not so long ago.

I get the sense he's perhaps trying too hard on occasion with an eye on getting into the World Cup. Overall though, he's still very influential.

[Los back. Thanks.]

I think the problem is the lack of goals from midfield more generally, that's why we're getting a bit agitated. Other than that, I think he's a fine young player, playing out of position and doing a good job.

I think Rodgers was really riding on Aly and Moses working out and mitigating the left flank threat but since they haven't, the pressures on coutinho. We should feel luck that he can manage there because in terms of that position, he's much more adaptable than Jordan.

Edit: ie jordan trying to play on the right.

[Just Dan]

The moment he stops dragging his shots and starts thinking about when its the right time to shoot and where to put the ball in the goal, is the moment we will have another world class player.

[Elzar]

He is finishing poorly, but the rest of his play is still very good. He's just getting noticed more due to him having more chances to score, and not taking most of them.

[bigbear]

He is finishing poorly, but the rest of his play is still very good. He's just getting noticed more due to him having more chances to score, and not taking most of them.

Spot on. The only thing he is not doing is taking his chances. He could have had 2 yesterday and he needs to work on keeping that bend to the far corner down.

Goals will undoubtedly come for the little genius. We forget he is still young and once he starts to click he will be a 10-15 goal a season player.

[tea_tree]

He clearly wants to do well for the team but also get a place in the Brazil squad for the world cup and doesn't seem to be handling the pressure very well. Still one of my favourite players at the moment but perhaps he needs some sessions with Steve Peters

[Crosby Nick]

I still find him a joy to watch. You can see he gets frustrated with his finishing but I'm hoping once he slots a couple he'll calm down and the goals will flow. We're hardly struggling to score without his input so at least it's not too costly at the moment.

We have some brilliant attacking options at the moment and it's likely one of them will need to start games on the bench - shit for whoever it is on a personal level but should be great news for us as we finally can make some game changing substitutions, as shown yesterday.

[exiledintheUSA]

What a talent - looking forward to watching him grow with this team.

[mrantarctica]

An excellent player. His execution has been a bit off with shooting and over hit passes. He's been a little unlucky, and sometimes it just takes a goal or two to open the floodgates.

[SerbianScouser]

Couldnt disagree more about the through balls, he is still creating one on ones for fun. Recently Suarez, Sterling and Johnson had clear one on one chances and missed them. I think people forget about those great through balls because they didnt result in goals.
Now that Sturridge is back I think Coutinho will have a field day, two of them have telephatic understanding and if Rodgers manages to somehow put Coutinho centrally with SAS in front of him PHIL will flourish.

[plura]

I think he's playing very well. He's missed some good chances, but then we were whining about Suarez' finishing not so long ago.

I get the sense he's perhaps trying too hard on occasion with an eye on getting into the World Cup. Overall though, he's still very influential.

Just this.

[Cpt_Reina]

I think perhaps people are guilty of expecting too much of him.

I thought at the start of the season people were already talking him up far too much off the back of a good 4 months. This is his adaptation period, just because he set off at a pace doesn't mean that he's not entitled to one.

21 years of age, first full season in a league where people have now learned what to expect from him, this was coming.

That he's still playing well despite not being as good as we know he can be speaks to how talented he is. He'll be better for going through this time, and will come out the other end a more effective player.

Sturridge being back is huge for Coutinho, he clearly loves playing with him the same way that Sterling loves playing with Suarez. In addition to that it will also move Coutinho down a place in terms of his 'responsibility'. Sturridge will come in and immediately be our second guy for goals and even assists, that means less pressure and less focus on Coutinho.

Reckon half the reason he snatches at his chances so much is because he's very conscious that he's been our second attacking outlet after Suarez. Its got to him a bit I think. Sturridge takes that load and then some.

Expect he'll pick up this second half of the season.

[SerbianScouser]

Reckon half the reason he snatches at his chances so much is because he's very conscious that he's been our second attacking outlet after Suarez. Its got to him a bit I think. Sturridge takes that load and then some.

I think also he is desperate to get into Brazil reckoning.

[EstonianRed]

I think he has done well, everybody is just expecting too much from him in my opinion.

[N0rnIr0nRed]

Few goals would do him world of good. Otherwise solid.

[carra1892]

He is absolutely under performing. He need to make GOALS and more assists. He is not slotting away some of the chanches that he should score.
And he know it himself. Look at his body language. Whenever he comes off to be replaced he is not the happy player.

[rscanderlech]

Few goals would do him world of good. Otherwise solid.

Hhahaha, I initially thought you had written "...Otherwise sold"!

I'm just wondering whether my theory bears any weight. Is it possible that the moderate bulking that he appeared to do over the summer is affecting the weight of his passing, or is that complete nonsense?

[Po The Panda]

Trying to hard wants to be part of the Brazil squad but looking slim as Oscar has come along and out performed him all season.

[TheGOAT]

Whenever he comes off to be replaced he is not the happy player.

Is there any player in world football who is happy at getting subbed off?

[Not A Scouser]

Him playing on the left is a nominal description.  The left is where he is supposed to be defensively and so he starts there when we get possession in our half, but he's never going to get a bollocking for wandering around where he feels like it with the ball.  I have certainly seen him receive the ball off the centre backs in the middle of the pitch more than once.

I see three problems with Coutinho: 
Him wandering infield compresses the team to the right when we have the ball unless the LB overlaps.  If the LB overlaps and Countiho wanders infield there is a huge hole on that side behind them.  this means the LB (particularly Cissokho) are afraid of overlapping.
Coutinho has said himself that in Brazil players in his position play no defence at all, and so he had to start learning that part of the game at Inter under Rafa.  Countinho is not naturally interested in defending, he has to remind himself to get back and doesn't always remember.  If he played centrally with the undroppable Suarez and Sturridge then that would be three players who wouldn't get back to defend much, leaving only seven.
He shoots poorly, and often.

Everyone can see his good points, skill, unpredictability, vision, positivity, willingness to take a risk.

The three quarter press is ideal for him.  Less tracking back, a more fun way to defend, and then the space for the through ball behind the opposition's defence.

[bigbear]

He is absolutely under performing. He need to make GOALS and more assists. He is not slotting away some of the chanches that he should score.
And he know it himself. Look at his body language. Whenever he comes off to be replaced he is not the happy player.

He is setting up lots of chances that are not being converted. In particularly he is releasing us time and again down the right wing and we are not being clinical.

[Gegenpresser]

He's going through a bit of a rough patch relative to his usual brilliance, I suspect because he wants to impress for Brazil, but his passing is still vital in getting the ball forward to Suarez, even if he has the odd selfish moment.

In terms of him viewing himself as a traditional #10, that's all well and good, but there's a reason the traditional #10 is a dying breed in Europe and I would say playing him out wide actually brings the best out of him more frequently. Out wide, he's more likely to find the space to accelerate on the ball and consistently do his magic. This is also why Neymar is playing out wide for both Barcelona and Brazil. I understand that there's a romance to being the playmaker in the middle for a Brazilian, but the reality is that playing him there just limits his options and gives shithouses like Ashley Williams more chances to injure him.

[robgomm]

He has two main problems, both related to his position on the left:

1) He's not very good at tracking back. He does do it and he does make some tackles but he's better, I think, at pressing from the front than tracking back.

2) He always cuts inside. He's predictable on the left, he cuts in and shoots and everybody knows it.

A more minor third issue is his shooting, which forms a second part of number 2. Just yesterday though, he shot with less frequency. That's good, he needs to pick his moments. He has the third highest shots per game ratio in the league. Suarez is way out at the top and he justifies it by scoring a lot of goals, he converts about 24% of his shots into goals. Coutinho converts 3%. He needs to be more selective (Sturridge converts about 40%, amazing).

For me I think Coutinho would be better playing smarter and best when he can play centrally, which may not happen anytime soon. His age, his skill and the fact he wants to score all point to a player we can hone into a top class talent over the next couple of years, these issues are temporary I think.

[Lucas DuoFlush]

His inclusion presumably creates space for others as managers must have taken note that last season he was a creative outlet. I haven't stopped to analyse him at all this season but its very possible that he is being doubled up on, closed down more aggressively and marked tighter. So, rather than playing poorly he may just be impressing in training and being focused on too much by opposition teams when it comes to match day. There may be a correlation between this and the fact that Sterling has been impressing - has he had more space to run into due to Coutinhos presence on the other side of the pitch? Furthermore, Enrique has been out for large parts of the season, and the majority of the time he was fit we were playing a very rigid system and stealing 1-0 victories.

I expect we'll see an improvement on Enriques return and if we don't I still expect Coutinho is earning his place on the training ground and has poor form due to opposition managers instructing their players to pay special attention to Philipe, effecting their team shape amongst other things.

[El Lobo]

He's fucking brilliant. Can't think of a 21 year old I'd prefer in there.

Also, as good as Suarez was in his first eighteen months, he wasn't particularly clinical. Then bang. Finishing comes with confidence, and it'll come for Phil too.

[trembles97]

Has a knack for scoring goals in big games, hope it continues.

[Motty]

Any other year and he would be a guaranteed starter even with his finishing lately, but with Suarez, Sterling and now Sturridge playing so well then i cant see him starting much in the next few games.
Unless we put him in what i think is his best position at AM but he would have to match Hendersons harrying and closing down which he's shown that he can do in the times he's played there.

[Funky_Gibbons]

With better finishing from other players he could have had half a dozen assists already, with better finishing from himself he could have half a dozen goals already.

He's not doing a lot wrong on and off the ball and if he keeps getting into those positions the goals and assists will come.

[mickeydocs]

With better finishing from other players he could have had half a dozen assists already, with better finishing from himself he could have half a dozen goals already.

He's not doing a lot wrong on and off the ball and if he keeps getting into those positions the goals and assists will come.

Agreed. Hugely talented player that will soon find the net with regularity.

[ouestlereferee]

Also, as good as Suarez was in his first eighteen months, he wasn't particularly clinical. Then bang. Finishing comes with confidence, and it'll come for Phil too.

Well worth reminding ourselves of this.  Hope it goes the same way for Cou too!

[LFCsupporter]

I think when he first arrived, Rodgers temporarily shelved tika-taka in favour of counter-attacking. Hence we sat deeper and the opposition would be a lot more stretched when they lost posession, creating a sublime link between Coutinho, who was given time and space on the ball, and Sturridge, who had the pace and finishing ability.

[jdpapa3]

For me, he is still a part of our big 3 as far as our attack, with Sterling clawing on that door to get in the group.

Seems to me like we need 2/3 of Suarez/Sturridge/Coutinho playing to look lethal going forward. 1 out of the 3 of them like at Hull, second half of Swansea, and Southampton and we look disjointed in the transition from the middle third to the final third.

I think he's rare in that he is still a positive for the team even when he's only performing at 5/10, with 10 being his own personal highest level. Takes up intelligent positions, beats a man, and is always a threat for through balls. I also think his defensive workrate is underrated.

The emergence of Sterling and return of Sturridge may afford him a bit of time off to clear his head and sort out the finishing issues. Seems to me to be an issue of power vs control. His on target shots from outside the box aren't exactly screaming through the air and the ones he tries to put his boot through are either pulled or hit into row Z.

From Statsbomb before our most recent game to put in the food for thought category: http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/01/why-suarez-cant-keep-up-his-scoring-rate/

The average goal expectation of Coutinho’s shots is just over 8% per shot, this equates to an expected goal total of almost 5 goals per our model across his 59 shots.  It can clearly be seen that his return of 2 goals puts him below expectations in terms of his scoring tally, but with his expected goals total being so low it’s probably not fair to plot a curve for him.  Just one or two more goals (if they ever come) would greatly change his place on the shooting curve

[Cave_Wang]

He's fucking brilliant. Can't think of a 21 year old I'd prefer in there.

Also, as good as Suarez was in his first eighteen months, he wasn't particularly clinical. Then bang. Finishing comes with confidence, and it'll come for Phil too.

Lucas Moura and Neymar for sure, but they are the best in the world for those positions. Incredible talents all three of them.

[The G in Gerrard]

Can we afford to play against the "lesser sides" two central midfielders with Coutinho centrally?

Just needs goal/s (seems desperate to score)

[Haggis36]

He's certainly been underperforming this season with respect to his potential and how he performed last season, which is absolutely no great crime since he's 21 years of age. He's got an unreal amount of talent, technically he is absolutely superb, but not much is coming off for him at the moment. It's less of a problem now Sturridge is back, because hopefully he can now benefit from a bit of a rest, as I think people underestimate the effect it has on a young player to overuse them through poor form or difficult times when not much is falling for them (see Jordan Henderson in his first season here). But yeah, his talent is absolutely not in doubt, he'll be a massive player for us in the future.

Agree with some above, that I think there are probably two main concerns with respect to Phil, though.

1) His position. His "ideal" position is in the number 10, but to be honest I don't see when he will ever be used there. We usually play with a three in midfield, and as long as Gerrard is one of them I don't think Phil can operate as another. More to the point, if we play our preferred version of 4-3-3, there isn't really a nominal number 10, and even the furthest forward midfielder is expected, to some extent, to be box-to-box, which Coutinho isn't really. If we played more of a 4-2-3-1 then it might be different, but we don't. If he plays on the left, then it curbs his natural game somewhat and blunts his effectiveness. He doesn't really provide enough end-product to be playing in that position on a consistent basis, certainly at the moment. Now, if we played two up top with a player in behind them then Phil would be the perfect candidate, but I don't really see him as an ideal fit in any other formation we play regularly. Certainly not as a left-sided midfielder in any version of 4-4-2. He's great at applying pressure, but tracking back really isn't his game.

2) His shooting. It will improve, and he's snatching at things at the moment, but it's still pretty poor. It's not just that he doesn't finish well, it's his decision making when he's taking shots that's flawed at the moment. I'm all for "buying a ticket" but it disrupts our game sometimes. You only need to look at Suarez to feel confident he can improve, but it's a big problem at the moment.

Ultimately, I doubt we'll play with all four of our forward players at once, so at the moment, Sterling probably edges out Coutinho for that third attacking spot, but a lot will depend on how we set up going forward. Make no mistake though, Coutinho will be obscenely good in time.