Author Topic: 2012/13 UEFA Champions League Final - Bayern München 2-1 Borussia Dortmund  (Read 591868 times)

Offline Xxavi

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As for the matches, I will start with Barca match. From the very beginning, it was clear that Barca tried to defend the lead. Something Barca doesn't do. Something Barca cannot do. I sensed that it won't end well, especially when you have out of form Pique and Adriano, who was just bad there. I have no idea why Busquets or Song didn't play there.

Everybody was poor anyway. It was the same poor Barca of the last 2-3 months. Or you could say this season, after Pep's departure. Is it the hunger that is missing, or is it the fatigue, mental and physical, taking the tall. Is it Pep's motivation or tactics missing? Who knows. It's just not the same. But this Barca will not be easy to beat as long as there are players like Iniesta and Messi.

It's a shame to say this, but Villa cannot do it on his own, a new striker and a new defender are a must. Cesc as a false nine... hated this idea all along, both for Spain and Barca. I just don't want to see him there, even if he can score goals. He is not a natural goalscorer, and against packed defenses in CL, I cannot see it working well.

Last, kudos to PSG for playing their heart out. I was yet again impressed with Moura, who is quick and can hold up the ball very well.

PS I love Iniesta, and for me, he is the second best in the world. But with or without the goals, he is not as good as Messi.

Offline Juan Loco

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A ridiculous criticism when you consider the fact that with such "poor stats" Xavi and Iniesta managed to lead their club and country to all trophies that can be won. Multiple times.

Yes, Frank Lampard scores more. I got it.

I actually agree with this.

Look, generally speaking, I'll say you've got to be doing more statistically. I do when people try and tell me Zidane is the best player that's ever lived, when I don't even think he was the best in that Juventus team, and that France's triumph at World Cup '98 owes way more to one of the best defences ever assembled.

But in Iniesta's case, it's faintly ridiculous. Goals win games, win the most games and you get the most trophies. I get that. But Iniesta has the most trophies. He's got another one coming to him in a few weeks for christsakes. Now maybe you can try and say at Barcelona he's lucky that he's got Messi beside him, who is just the most astonish goalscorer ever. ... But Iniesta wins at international level. In fact, he doesn't just win, he stands out a fucking mile as the best and most exciting player in that team. ... That team that's just won 3 major international tournaments on the spin.


And he's never going to win a golden ball him, because he doesn't score 50 goals a season.
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Offline Xxavi

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Now, about Juventus-Bayern Munich. Wow, what a domination, what a demolition. What a fucking masterclass by Bayern. They look the best out of the last 4 really. Hungry, in form, top physical conditions, superb team play. Barca will have to come back to form to beat them.

I was angry with the Spanish ref who was giving every 50/50 to Juve at the beginning of the match. Spanish refs are the worst in Europe, I don't know how UEFA didn't come to this conclusion yet. But Bayern dominated the game regardless. Mandzukic was superb, so was Shweinsteigger. The guy is really underrated. Yet again, he and Martinez completely dominated the much (over)hyped Pirlo in his back yard, but make any "top X" list, he will be below Pirlo. Such is this world.

I don't want Barca to meet Bayern. They are good in possession, they are good on the counter. I'd rather have Borussia, then Real Madrid, and only then Bayern Munich.

Offline ElCapo

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100% - Xavi attempted and completed 96 passes tonight, a record since Opta started analysing the Champions League. Perfection.

I see your optajean and I call bullshit

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2013/2009604_tpd.pdf

Offline Xxavi

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I see your optajean and I call bullshit

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/ucl/2013/2009604_tpd.pdf
If I have to guess, the difference in the numbers, at least in part, is probably due to the corners Xavi takes. Barca corners are essentially useless, because only Pique can head the ball from corners, and he is semi-decent in that. So yeah, most of them go waste. However, looking through the numbers, it seems UEFA's numbers are just wrong.

Re-Xavi. Xavi does what he is supposed to, he dictates the pace of the game, and he dominates the possession. The problems with Barca are in other areas, because it seems Barca's attacking options other than Messi aren't doing their job. Iniesta does it, but Alexis, Cesc and Villa... not good enough really. No pace, no shooting.

However, Xavi hasn't been as dominant this season as before. And this is because of injuries. He has been missing almost 50% of games, not playing in the league and playing in Champions League. It's difficult to expect him to hit his top form, physical or otherwise, in such an injury ridden season. You may wonder why is he even playing half-fit, well, because if Xavi isn't there, Barca look worse, far worse. It has been tried and tested. No, Cesc isn't as good as a half-fit Xavi. Xavi used to be the player who runs most in Barca team, and gives crucial passes in final third, he just cannot do it when half-fit.

Xavi is a sideway passer? Haha, he is a guaranteed starter ahead of Cesc, who is supposedly the one who takes risks. It is amazing that at this day and age, people still question him. Both Barca's and Spain's best games coincide with Xavi's best games. It's not a coincidence.

Make no mistake, Spain's and Barca's TIKI TAKA WILL BE GONE when Xavi retires. All Thiago's and Cesc's of this world will not replace him. The tactics will have to change, I can predict that much. Xavi is the tiki taka guy.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 04:32:48 am by Xxavi »

Offline ElCapo

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Now, about Juventus-Bayern Munich. Wow, what a domination, what a demolition. What a fucking masterclass by Bayern. They look the best out of the last 4 really. Hungry, in form, top physical conditions, superb team play. Barca will have to come back to form to beat them.

I was angry with the Spanish ref who was giving every 50/50 to Juve at the beginning of the match. Spanish refs are the worst in Europe, I don't know how UEFA didn't come to this conclusion yet. But Bayern dominated the game regardless. Mandzukic was superb, so was Shweinsteigger. The guy is really underrated. Yet again, he and Martinez completely dominated the much (over)hyped Pirlo in his back yard, but make any "top X" list, he will be below Pirlo. Such is this world.

I don't want Barca to meet Bayern. They are good in possession, they are good on the counter. I'd rather have Borussia, then Real Madrid, and only then Bayern Munich.

Fair assessment, I want Barcelona.  Barca have won 2 of the last 4, Bayern have been beaten in 2 of the last 4 finals, yet the teams have never met.  Sure there was that demolition of the Klinsmann team and the Spain demolition of Germany in the Euros and the World Cup, but I feel the gap has been closing.  I want Bayern to meet Barcelona.  I never wanted ACMilan or PSG or some bullshit team to beat Barca, I want to see the best teams in Europe play, and that's undoubtedly Bayern and Barcelona.  Two teams that play positive, possession football and may the best win.

This feels like 08 when Spain beat Italy, cleared all the psychological barriers and hasn't looked back.  Bayern can do the same.


Offline Xxavi

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^Bring it on, mate.

I feel Barca can raise to the challenge. Barca always have problems when we feel safe and secure, be it Rubin Kazan, Celtic or PSG. I am pretty sure you won't see the Barca you saw vs PSG if the match is against Bayern Munich.

Offline ElCapo

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I'd love it, I've been pining for this matchup.

I feel Bayern will beat Madrid. 

I don't like to play Borussia, they're a tough team

Offline Xxavi

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I'd love it, I've been pining for this matchup.

I feel Bayern will beat Madrid. 

I don't like to play Borussia, they're a tough team
A bit ridiculous to say this way. So Barca are an easy team :lmao

I don't mind you saying whatever. Barca are record holders in many areas, but the last new record by Barca is the fact that Barca have been the only team to reach 6 consecutive CL 1/2 finals. You talking about Barca being in 2 finals in last 4 years and Bayern doing the same gives a wrong impression due to choosing the statistics you like to highlight :D

Barca have reached to the semis 6 years in a row now. 3 wins tell their own story :D I attribute Barca's main problems to fatigue, mostly mental.

But I admit, Barca's decline is there to see. It is very clear. But this decline is from being arguably the best team ever to just one of the best 4 teams in the world. And we know that even shit teams like last season's Chelsea can win. Barca certainly can win if Iniesta, Xavi and Messi turn it on. Will they? Anyway, let's see who Barca get, all teams are good.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 04:56:45 am by Xxavi »

Offline Ryba

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The draw tomorow will ensure a Germany - Spain  Final .

Telly and all that ...
I must be a conspiracy nut because I am convinced we will see two Classicos in the semi-finals (and a resulting Germany-Spain final). Too much revenue in Barca vs Real and Bayern vs Dortmund semi-final ties to pass them up.

Offline ElCapo

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A bit ridiculous to say this way. So Barca are an easy team :lmao

I don't mind you saying whatever. Barca are record holders in many areas, but the last new record by Barca is the fact that Barca have been the only team to reach 6 consecutive CL 1/2 finals. You talking about Barca being in 2 finals in last 4 years and Bayern doing the same gives a wrong impression due to choosing the statistics you like to highlight :D

Barca have reached to the semis 6 years in a row now. 3 wins tell their own story :D I attribute Barca's main problems to fatigue, mostly mental.

But I admit, Barca's decline is there to see. It is very clear. But this decline is from being arguably the best team ever to just one of the best 4 teams in the world. And we know that even shit teams like last season's Chelsea can win. Barca certainly can win if Iniesta, Xavi and Messi turn it on. Will they? Anyway, let's see who Barca get, all teams are good.

No, I'm not saying Barca are weak, au contraire they are the team to beat, so for Bayern to be the best, they have to beat Barcelona.  Barcelona are the milestone, the reference point, so beating them signifies your arrival on the big stage; excluding one-off bs wins from Inter and Chelsea.   Psychologically it would be huge, and it may have repercussions for the World Cup next year as well.  If they can't beat Barcelona, they should go home pure and simple.

Real, we saw how it went last year.  This year Bayern have added Dante, Martinez and Mandzukic to the first 11, and Real haven't really strengthened that much. 

BVB is just a pesky team for Bayern.  I'd rather not play them.

On another note, can't believe how bad the refereeing was.  Every 50:50 going Juves way, and Mandzukic got booked for having his shin kicked out from Chiellini.  Now he's going to miss the next match.  Unreal.  Spanish ref :no
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 02:37:01 pm by ElCapo »

Offline FresnoBee

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A ridiculous criticism when you consider the fact that with such "poor stats" Xavi and Iniesta managed to lead their club and country to all trophies that can be won. Multiple times.

Yes, Frank Lampard scores more. I got it.

Xavi is a CM. Iniesta is the one that supposed to making things in the final third. He's an incredible dribbler, but there's limit a dribbler can hurt the opponent. You just need to watch Maradona, Cruyff, Best, or even Zidane if you want to see what a complete attacking midfielder can do.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:17:50 am by FresnoBee »

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Xavi is a CM. Iniesta is the one that supposed to making things in the final third. He's an incredible dribbler, but there's limit a dribbler can hurt the opponent. You just need to watch Maradona, Cruyff, Best, or even Zidane if you want to see what a complete attacking midfielder can do.
I'd put Iniesta up there with the best attacking midfielders I've ever seen in my life time.
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Offline FresnoBee

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^ THis whole 'best ever' is a bit semantic. Fair play to anyone who think Iniesta is the best ever attacking midfielder (they've ever seen, or watched). By the way, Barca felt the need to have a one leg Messi just to get a grip of the game against PSG, at home game. It's kinda funny, when the best ever AMC was not enough.

Offline Earl of Dingleberry

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Make no mistake, Spain's and Barca's TIKI TAKA WILL BE GONE when Xavi retires. All Thiago's and Cesc's of this world will not replace him. The tactics will have to change, I can predict that much. Xavi is the tiki taka guy.

Nobody's bigger than the tiki-taka.

Offline KERRYKOP

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The hardest thing to do in football is score goals, it just is. The reason why these two are considered so far ahead of the rest is because they score way more goals than anyone else, what they're doing has not been done before and when they go this way of judging who is the best will probably go with them.

Iniesta obviously is an incredible player, but in the way Ronaldo is unlucky to be in the same era with Messi, Iniesta cant count himself unlucky to be in the same era as those two guys. And Its not like Iniesta is a deep lying midfielder he's up there in goal-scoring positions as much as the two lads, but he doesn't convert or create as many chances, this puts him behind Messi and Ronaldo by a distance imo.

Offline mikey_LFC

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Make no mistake, Spain's and Barca's TIKI TAKA WILL BE GONE when Xavi retires. All Thiago's and Cesc's of this world will not replace him. The tactics will have to change, I can predict that much. Xavi is the tiki taka guy.

I don't reckon so. I think Iniesta is the same player Xavi was three/four years ago. He'll slot into the Xavi role and then drop deeper as he gets older as Xavi himself has done. Personally I also think Busquets could push forward and do that role.

Also I think its a bit much ruling Thiago out already seeing as Xavi didn't hit his peak until his late 20's, hes got many years yet to develop into that player. But my bet is Iniesta into the Xavi role, Cesc into the Iniesta role. Then when Iniesta retires, Cesc into the Xavi role and Messi into the Iniesta role, with Deulofeu or Dongou taking the Messi role. etc..

And this will carry on until the oceans are dried up and the world becomes uninhabitable...
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Offline Walshy nMe®

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Would love to see Dortmund get to the final, but I don't think they'll beat wither Barca or Real over 2 legs, which means it's going to need to be an all German Semi.

Dortmund v Madrid would be nice to see.

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Dortmund took four points off Real Madrid in the group stage. Admittedly, two legged games are different affairs and Real Madrid look better now than they did a few months ago but still, they've proved this season they can do it against them. I reckon it'll be very tight and very evenly matched.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline FernandoSusoLFC

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I hope BVB don't win it because Jurgen Klopp said he wouldn't leave BVB til he won the CL. Chelsea are looking managerless next season and they could offer him the blank cheque book.

Speaking in hypotheticals, discuss...

Offline El Lobo

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Hypothetically, there are many managers who have created a brilliant legacy at one club and then failed spectacularly elsewhere at different clubs with hugely different ideals and bases.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Po The Panda

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^ Agreed Chelsea seem to be the complete opposite of what Klopp has done at Dortmund won't get any where near the same time. Mourinho is perfect for them Instant results for a club with no long term plan.

Offline Paris Saint-Germain

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^Bring it on, mate.

I feel Barca can raise to the challenge. Barca always have problems when we feel safe and secure, be it Rubin Kazan, Celtic or PSG. I am pretty sure you won't see the Barca you saw vs PSG if the match is against Bayern Munich.

Well if they felt safe and secure, they are really dumb... Also interesting to see my team with the likes of rubin kazan and celtic  ::)

Offline Hank Scorpio

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A ridiculous criticism when you consider the fact that with such "poor stats" Xavi and Iniesta managed to lead their club and country to all trophies that can be won. Multiple times.
Agree.  I don't want to patronise, but there is a lack of football understanding when you criticise a player like Iniesta using those stats.  He is a sublime footballer who creates space where it doesn't seem to exist.  I actually rate him higher than Messi.  Call me a hipster or splitting hairs for the sake of it but that's what I think.  It could be a reaction to him being in the shadow of Messi/Ronaldo.  I don't know, that's just what I think.

Offline KERRYKOP

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So the consensus is that Kloop is a manager who creates a team and a legacy over a number of years, that is antithesis of Abramovich policy, so in that case Man United would seem a perfect fit for Kloop.

Offline Walshy nMe®

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So the consensus is that Kloop is a manager who creates a team and a legacy over a number of years, that is antithesis of Abramovich policy, so in that case Man United would seem a perfect fit for Kloop.

Please don't give anyone, anywhere, ideas.

Offline Lawnmowerman

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So the consensus is that Kloop is a manager who creates a team and a legacy over a number of years, that is antithesis of Abramovich policy, so in that case Man United would seem a perfect fit for Kloop.
Klopp at OT. Mass outpouring of grief on here :D

Offline thegoodfella

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So the consensus is that Kloop is a manager who creates a team and a legacy over a number of years, that is antithesis of Abramovich policy, so in that case Man United would seem a perfect fit for Kloop.

Who is this Kloop you are talking about?

Offline Phil M

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Dortmund took four points off Real Madrid in the group stage. Admittedly, two legged games are different affairs and Real Madrid look better now than they did a few months ago but still, they've proved this season they can do it against them. I reckon it'll be very tight and very evenly matched.

Have to be drawn to play each other first. ;)
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Offline KERRYKOP

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Who is this Kloop you are talking about?
Like a dagger through my heart that is. Foreign names I could do without them.

Offline FernandoSusoLFC

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Klopp to United would lead to hipster suicide.

Offline KERRYKOP

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Klopp to United would lead to hipster suicide.
He's a perfect fit and has said he would someday like to manage in England, prepare yourselves.

Offline koptician

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So the consensus is that Kloop is a manager who creates a team and a legacy over a number of years, that is antithesis of Abramovich policy, so in that case Man United would seem a perfect fit for Kloop.

I don't mind Kloop going to OT.  As long as they keep their dirty mitts off Jurgen Klopp :lickin

Offline Juan Loco

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The hardest thing to do in football is score goals, it just is.

Or is it to win trophies? ;)
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Offline Antics

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Are assists a meaningless stat when measuring the contribution of attacking midfielders? Genuine question.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Are assists a meaningless stat when measuring the contribution of attacking midfielders? Genuine question.
Definitely not.

Bayern vs Madrid
Dortmund vs Barca
please.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Po The Panda

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Awaiting the 1 hour ceremony tomorrow to draw 4 balls!   

Offline ElCapo

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Uli Hoeness said that BVB is the weakest team left in the CL; BVB's President's Watzke responded that  the field will show who is better and that Bayern's arrogance is too much.

Teutonic diplomacy at its finest...

Offline Fuschimuschi

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Didn't Dortmund say the same about Malaga??

Offline ElCapo

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Probably, who's keeping track.  I think UEFA best keep teams from the same country apart.