Topic: Round Table: West Ham 3 v Liverpool 1

[L666KOP]

Wouldn't that force a very high line?
And I think we would still need a midfielder in front of out defence to harry the opposition when they're trying to spring a counterattack, so we'd probably have to sacrifice Henderson and sit him deeper throughout the game. Not saying it wouldn't work, but I think in some games we simply need someone who has more mobility and athleticism than Gerrard to play as the holding midfielder.

Brendan want's our Cb's to play on the front foot, he's said that.

It's just an option, he's clearly struggling. So far this season he's been completely taken out of the game by Agbonlahor, and Downing.

If he was just a DM then he'd be able to move about to find space, but his job is clearly to split the CB's which removes most of his lateral movement, the opposition know this, and we can't counter it. Everyone knows where Gerrard will/should be.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

This redux and recycled Gerrard narrative is interesting. 

Folks Gerrard is not past his prime. 

He is still a world class player and the problem against WHU was not his lack of mobility.   It was the same point that a few have made here and that Carra made in a column this last week about Gerrard's:

1) Space on the pitch when marked
2) Time on the ball (since he is our ignition for penetrating and probing distribution)
3) Influence on the game (instead of making plays, he is in the role of having to yell to influence (see Borini's decision-making several times)

This is not a result of playing 3 games in 7 days.
This is not a result of being an aging world class player but losing his step
This is not a result of playing with Lucas (other than there is more pressure on Leiva to play out of pressure)

This is a result of not solving a tactical decision to man mark him.  I am sure in BR's mind that if we dominate the ball in the midfield, then Rodgers does not give two shits about Downing preventing Gerrards' touches.   However, when that assumption is taken away and we are pressed ------>  now we have the double whammy of the lack of his influence going forward (as speed going forward is a strength) and we have to defend more in the space right in front of Gerrard and right behind him.   

The solution is to find ways for him to find influence or make man marking so disagreeable to the player or team utilizing these tactics that they are either negated or punished for this tactic. 

Ironically, if we start looking at a few solutions, Lucas does come to mind.  First, you could switch roles a bit and have Lucas drop.  Or you mark the marker (and find ways to get numbers up within the battle, play some give and goes, force the player (Downing) make a decision to release with Gerrard or stay put).   Third, find a Plan B location on the pitch for Gerrard to influence.  But much of this depends upon where and when we press and how well we keep the ball, doesn't it.   The higher up the pitch our captain gets, the more running he is going to have to do to get back.  This is actually a consideration as most teams want to sit back and counter us. 

Overall, I do not think Gerrard or Lucas are done.  C'mon, Rodgers would not have them on the roster or playing if felt like this.  And as we have seen ad nauseum, these narratives get offered every time we struggle as a team or individual mistakes happen.  How we want to play changes, evolves.  This is what Rodgers brings to Liverpool -----> learning on the fly, not absolute football purity.

If you want to go off on Gerrard this year, which was a mistake last year by a large number of people here, tell him to get going with his corner and free kick service.   But, I suspect he would be the first to say it.     

[L666KOP]

This redux and recycled Gerrard narrative is interesting. 

   

Then move him.

He either goes to the tip of the diamond, and tears it up for an hour in the games he gets, or backwards.

We can't give him any other position in a midfield ala Brendan.

And we all know that from now on he's going to be number 1 target on every teams list.

Stop Gerrard, stop Liverpool.

[Baz Smythe]

Seems pretty obvious to just move Gerrard in the first couple of mins if he.s being man marked but there must be a reason why Rodgers hasn't done that. But I don.t like the thought of Lucas in that position either, would rather they gave it to Henderson

[Bolrick]

I know quite a few have raised this (these past few days)....but why don't we take more long shots against teams who parks 2 buses and an elephant ?

We only had 1 shot on goal against Villa....surely when things aren't going our way in terms of buildup, taking shots from outside the box might pay off eventually...

We have some of the best strikers of the ball.... (baletolli, sturridge, hendo, gerrard, lallana...etc).

[bodhisattva]

I know quite a few have raised this (these past few days)....but why don't we take more long shots against teams who parks 2 buses and an elephant ?

We only had 1 shot on goal against Villa....surely when things aren't going our way in terms of buildup, taking shots from outside the box might pay off eventually...

We have some of the best strikers of the ball.... (baletolli, sturridge, hendo, gerrard, lallana...etc).

when you have teams that set up that way getting close enough to get those clean shots off from distance isn't easy and you end up shooting from too far out which the opposition would be more than happy with.

a much more effective way of combating that type of setup is having players that can beat a man 1v1 which opens up the spacess nd we've seen Rodgers does like players that are good in those 1v1 situations.

the other solution is to use the width of the pitch and have your fullbacks getting forward and trying to create 2v1 situations.

[redmark]

Brendan want's our Cb's to play on the front foot, he's said that.

It's just an option, he's clearly struggling. So far this season he's been completely taken out of the game by Agbonlahor, and Downing.

If he was just a DM then he'd be able to move about to find space, but his job is clearly to split the CB's which removes most of his lateral movement, the opposition know this, and we can't counter it. Everyone knows where Gerrard will/should be.

I keep mentioning it, but he had 107 touches against Villa. He wasn't taken out of the game - he just wasn't playing very well.

And again, if we actually improve elsewhere on the pitch - Balotelli's movement, Coutinho/Lallana/Henderson/Allen's attacking contribution and cohesion, then we pose the opposition problems elsewhere on the pitch and they have to respond. Teams may afford the luxury of sitting a man on Gerrard because we're not hurting them elsewhere. Once we do, they'll soon adjust.

[Deva_YNWA]

Few weeks back I gave a comment regarding Gerrard on another forum...and last weekend's match underlined it once more. I am struggling to understand the tactics employed here. Any tom dick and harry can observe that Gerrard can't protect the backline, and he is being played to be the deep lying playmaker. Now when he gets marked out of a game, he becomes a passenger as he is neither protecting the backline nor becoming the playmaker. Worse still, both henderson and lucas had to keep check of their attacking intent since they both had to drop deep than usual.
This is not a Gerrard bashing post. I am a huge fan of Gerrard myself, but I have this query about him currently. Why can't he be a super-sub in the same position (attacking mid) where he used to excel. People say it is to increase the longevity of his career. But what is the use of extending one's career if he is of limited use to his team. I just feel sad watching Gerrard, when opposition midfielders ghost past him and leaves him chasing their shadows. And yes, most of the open play goals have come when the opposition midfielders arrived in the penalty box untracked. Ofcourse having defenders, who are not comfortable on the ball when pressed by opposition, makes it even easier for the opposition.
 
Problem is we don't know whose call is it anyway. Is Gerrard forcing Rodgers to play him thrice a week? In that case both of them should be blamed. Rodgers have to take some hard decisions. Gerrard also should realize what is best for his childhood love.

In my opinion, playing Lucas (from what is available currently) in that base makes sense, because that is the only place he is suitable for. Agreed that we would miss the occasional killer passes, but its a position where we need stability more than creativity. Both Henderson and Coutinho/Lallana can play in front of him to give the creativity, the team is craving for. Followed by Sterling/Lallana/Markovich(I know he is winger but have seen him play well in the number 10 role as well) and then the two strikers.

Comments and criticisms are invited.

[redmark]

I know quite a few have raised this (these past few days)....but why don't we take more long shots against teams who parks 2 buses and an elephant ?

I vaguely remember reading something - I think from Rodgers, because it surprised me a little - that he'd rather we finished a move with a speculative shot than became aimless in direction, with too many forward and ended up losing the ball in the centre of the pitch while out of shape, because it gives the opposition a goal kick, not a counter attacking opportunity. Shooting a bit more often would reduce the number of counters, even if the ball ends up in the stands.

[L666KOP]

I keep mentioning it, but he had 107 touches against Villa. He wasn't taken out of the game - he just wasn't playing very well.

And again, if we actually improve elsewhere on the pitch - Balotelli's movement, Coutinho/Lallana/Henderson/Allen's attacking contribution and cohesion, then we pose the opposition problems elsewhere on the pitch and they have to respond. Teams may afford the luxury of sitting a man on Gerrard because we're not hurting them elsewhere. Once we do, they'll soon adjust.

But what did he do with them.

Were they forward, probing passes, or were they sideways/backwards ones as he was being closed down.

A touch every 50 seconds sounds well and good, but the context of them is important.

We lost Suarez, we need to find a solution that means we don't lose Gerrard as well.

[redmark]

But what did he do with them.

Were they forward, probing passes, or were they sideways/backwards ones as he was being closed down.

A touch every 50 seconds sounds well and good, but the context of them is important.

We lost Suarez, we need to find a solution that means we don't lose Gerrard as well.

94 passes @88%, 13/18 long passes, 4 key passes (both highest on the team). Agbonlahor simply didn't shut him down.

[lamonti]

Static.. The one word that sums up this season so far.. No movement, no energy, no urgency, no fight..

We've gone from this merciless red pressing machine that broke with the ferocity of a rabid dog wolf to a turgid, slow and ponderous tortoise with a soft shell underbelly ready to be ripped apparat when we poke our head out only for a moment.

We seem to have lost our identity completely, this is Rodgers 3rd season and he basically has the players he wanted in his team, yet we look like a frightened rabbit caught in a snare, incapable of anything at speed.. With 5 minutes to go you see Skrtel and Gerrard in our own half passing it between themselves for what seemed an age, to then hoof it forward aimlessly.. Our identity loss was complete.

Overreaction! While we haven't been good, its not fair to say BR has the players he wants when he doesn't have our best player from last season because 1) he bit someone again and 2) forced through a transfer after trying to do so last season – and he doesn't have Sturridge at the moment. Mad how everyone thinks some bad performances make all the players bad. Yes there are issues to address, but the main ones for me in the Hammers game were for the most part not-personnel, but attitude and inability to keep the ball in midfield. Address those two things and we'll be a lot, lot better with the same personnel.

[GregCharrua]

I keep mentioning it, but he had 107 touches against Villa. He wasn't taken out of the game - he just wasn't playing very well.

And again, if we actually improve elsewhere on the pitch - Balotelli's movement, Coutinho/Lallana/Henderson/Allen's attacking contribution and cohesion, then we pose the opposition problems elsewhere on the pitch and they have to respond. Teams may afford the luxury of sitting a man on Gerrard because we're not hurting them elsewhere. Once we do, they'll soon adjust.

This seems a big part of it, doesn't it?

[exino]

Spot on as always Prof.

[GrkStav]

You do realise the objective is to get the best formation for the team as a whole, not getting the formation that best suits Lucas.

No, really? I thought it was to get the formation that best suits Gerrard actually. Are you telling me it's not?

Thanks for clearing this up.

[Kopite13]

Few weeks back I gave a comment regarding Gerrard on another forum...and last weekend's match underlined it once more. I am struggling to understand the tactics employed here. Any tom dick and harry can observe that Gerrard can't protect the backline, and he is being played to be the deep lying playmaker. Now when he gets marked out of a game, he becomes a passenger as he is neither protecting the backline nor becoming the playmaker. Worse still, both henderson and lucas had to keep check of their attacking intent since they both had to drop deep than usual.
This is not a Gerrard bashing post. I am a huge fan of Gerrard myself, but I have this query about him currently. Why can't he be a super-sub in the same position (attacking mid) where he used to excel. People say it is to increase the longevity of his career. But what is the use of extending one's career if he is of limited use to his team. I just feel sad watching Gerrard, when opposition midfielders ghost past him and leaves him chasing their shadows. And yes, most of the open play goals have come when the opposition midfielders arrived in the penalty box untracked. Ofcourse having defenders, who are not comfortable on the ball when pressed by opposition, makes it even easier for the opposition.
 
Problem is we don't know whose call is it anyway. Is Gerrard forcing Rodgers to play him thrice a week? In that case both of them should be blamed. Rodgers have to take some hard decisions. Gerrard also should realize what is best for his childhood love.

In my opinion, playing Lucas (from what is available currently) in that base makes sense, because that is the only place he is suitable for. Agreed that we would miss the occasional killer passes, but its a position where we need stability more than creativity. Both Henderson and Coutinho/Lallana can play in front of him to give the creativity, the team is craving for. Followed by Sterling/Lallana/Markovich(I know he is winger but have seen him play well in the number 10 role as well) and then the two strikers.

Comments and criticisms are invited.

This post makes an awful lot of sense!

[RedDevo]

Our greatest weapon last year was pace, the development of Sterling and Sturridge as top draw players combined with the form of Suarez caught out many teams thinking they could play a high line. We destroyed any team that dared leave any space in behind last year, you would have to be a monumentally clueless and stubborn manager to repeat that mistake this year (hello Wenger!)

With no space to use pace you are left to play the ball into the feet of your attacking players, Balotelli would be running the channels if there were any channels to run into. Henderson and Sterling would be getting ahead of the ball if the space was there. When you see Man City at the Etihad defending deep against us letting us have possession 30 yards out its pretty clear we're going to need a plan B.  Sturridge's lateral movement across the front of the back 4 and the way he drops into the hole has been missed and it will help no end when he is back.

I posted this after the Villa game.

Everyone knows the well organised ‘park the bus’ team is difficult to break down. Man City and Chelsea can (more often than not) beat them because they have players that can operate in the congestion on the edge of the penalty area.

Silva, Nasri, Fabregas, Hazard. All players who can keep possession of the ball 20 yards from goal. They force defenders into split second decisions, tempt them to try and nick the ball. Commit defenders into making positional mistakes, and when full backs get sucked in to help out they can work the ball down the side for the wide man or overlapping full back to come onto.

Instead we have tended to move the ball around 30 yards from goal, patiently looking for an opening to play the killer through ball. Against a deep well organised defence that opening rarely presents itself. 30 yards from goal we cannot pull the opposition defence out of position and it becomes something of a stale mate. We end up with a choice to either play it wide and knock in a cross or take a pot shot from distance.

We have also been physically dominated in the past two matches. It's a cliché that you have to earn the right to play but it still applies in the Premier League where teams continue to be given the freedom to rough up their opponents. West Ham under Allardyce was always going to be a bruising encounter, the same happened last season and we were mighty relieved to get away with a result. We desperately need a physical presence in midfield a problem made ever more acute by the worrying speed of physical decline in Gerrard and Lucas. I hope Can can step up.

The problem of teams man marking Gerrard could be resolved if we had a centre half who could carry the ball forward into midfield, draw the opposition out and start creating some space for others to exploit. None of our centre half's want to cross the half way line and its frustrating to watch.

[QC]

No, really? I thought it was to get the formation that best suits Gerrard actually. Are you telling me it's not?

Thanks for clearing this up.

No, it's not. People are just as critical of Gerrard as they are Lucas here. Get over this weird obsession you have. Clearly Lucas is not a player we're going to reshape the team for.

[L666KOP]

No, it's not. People are just as critical of Gerrard as they are Lucas here. Get over this weird obsession you have. Clearly Lucas is not a player we're going to reshape the team for.

Gerrard has the luxury of starting in his favoured position every game. Lucas has to make do with minutes as and when, in a team that hasn't used a DM Brendan came in.

Big, big difference.

[QC]

Gerrard has the luxury of starting in his favoured position every game. Lucas has to make do with minutes as and when, in a team that hasn't used a DM Brendan came in.

Big, big difference.

I'm not sure it's his favoured position; more it's a position he's adapted to so as to still be useful in the team. And in my opinion, Gerrard earned that opportunity to adapt over the course of last season given his improvement and contribution as the season progressed. It's only recently he begun to under perform, and is now rightfully coming under scrutiny. I'm sorry for Lucas' few minutes, but taking into account more than the last few games you'd want Gerrard on the pitch more than not.

[L666KOP]

I'm not sure it's his favoured position; more it's a position he's adapted to so as to still be useful in the team. And in my opinion, Gerrard earned that opportunity to adapt over the course of last season given his improvement and contribution as the season progressed. It's only recently he begun to under perform, and is now rightfully coming under scrutiny. I'm sorry for Lucas' few minutes, but taking into account more than the last few games you'd want Gerrard on the pitch more than not.

I just feel that some of the criticism is unwarranted.

If he's playing as DM, and is poor for a run of games, then fair enough.
Just like we're giving it Gerrard currently, but some of the grief is seriously unfair, playing on the side of a diamond ? He's not as mobile as he once was, and I'll concede that DM is his only position in a side like ours. But people need to realise that DM and controller are two completely different rioles, so Lucas is redundant.

Let's not scapegoat him for not being good enough at a job he's not physically enabled to do.

[QC]

I just feel that some of the criticism is unwarranted.

If he's playing as DM, and is poor for a run of games, then fair enough.
Just like we're giving it Gerrard currently, but some of the grief is seriously unfair, playing on the side of a diamond ? He's not as mobile as he once was, and I'll concede that DM is his only position in a side like ours. But people need to realise that DM and controller are two completely different rioles, so Lucas is redundant.

Let's not scapegoat him for not being good enough at a job he's not physically enabled to do.

I think that is the larger point though - there is no longer a place for Lucas in the team if he cannot competitively hold down a spot in his only position.

[L666KOP]

I think that is the larger point though - there is no longer a place for Lucas in the team if he cannot competitively hold down a spot in his only position.

That's the problem, he doesn't have a position in this team, we don't play with a DM. If we did he'd keep Gerrard out of the side.

Why he didn't leave I've no idea, but unless we tear up the system and start using a DM there's no place for him, and if he does get minutes it's in a role he's not familiar with.

[LiamG]

i guess over the course of the season when we have all midfielders fit then i'm sure we will see Gerrard played less in that position, BR definitely needs to setting us up without Gerrard

[Il Capitano]

Gerrard played well when he could hit a long pass to Suarez or Sturridge to take down. We don't have either playing for us at the moment.

[MrRaptorTurtle]

Gerrard played well when he could hit a long pass to Suarez or Sturridge to take down. We don't have either playing for us at the moment.

To be fair Balotelli is more than capable enough of bringing down a 50 yard Gerrard pass, he has a superb touch!

[GrkStav]

No, it's not. People are just as critical of Gerrard as they are Lucas here. Get over this weird obsession you have. Clearly Lucas is not a player we're going to reshape the team for.

Once again, you don't say!

When the eff did I even come close to suggesting that we should be reshaping the team for Lucas?

Figure out what I've actually said first before proceeding to argue against it. Or you can just argue against the position that you'd prefer I had put forth so you can demolish it with aplomb.

[decky]

Anyone think that we could use Coutinho in the deep playmaker role? Or in those games where teams squeeze in that area we play both as a two? I know it's not great defensively but those two could play their way out against teams pushing us in that area

[GrkStav]

The crucial difference between WHU and other 'park the bus' team approaches is that they didn't start by conceding possession and going into a low-block defense. They did that only after they pressed us and manhandled us into an early 2-0 lead. In the first half, they in fact did not do much conceding of possession even after we went to 3 at the back.

[Goobs10]

This redux and recycled Gerrard narrative is interesting. 

Folks Gerrard is not past his prime. 

He is still a world class player and the problem against WHU was not his lack of mobility.   It was the same point that a few have made here and that Carra made in a column this last week about Gerrard's:

1) Space on the pitch when marked
2) Time on the ball (since he is our ignition for penetrating and probing distribution)
3) Influence on the game (instead of making plays, he is in the role of having to yell to influence (see Borini's decision-making several times)

This is not a result of playing 3 games in 7 days.
This is not a result of being an aging world class player but losing his step
This is not a result of playing with Lucas (other than there is more pressure on Leiva to play out of pressure)

This is a result of not solving a tactical decision to man mark him.  I am sure in BR's mind that if we dominate the ball in the midfield, then Rodgers does not give two shits about Downing preventing Gerrards' touches.   However, when that assumption is taken away and we are pressed ------>  now we have the double whammy of the lack of his influence going forward (as speed going forward is a strength) and we have to defend more in the space right in front of Gerrard and right behind him.   

The solution is to find ways for him to find influence or make man marking so disagreeable to the player or team utilizing these tactics that they are either negated or punished for this tactic. 

Ironically, if we start looking at a few solutions, Lucas does come to mind.  First, you could switch roles a bit and have Lucas drop.  Or you mark the marker (and find ways to get numbers up within the battle, play some give and goes, force the player (Downing) make a decision to release with Gerrard or stay put).   Third, find a Plan B location on the pitch for Gerrard to influence.  But much of this depends upon where and when we press and how well we keep the ball, doesn't it.   The higher up the pitch our captain gets, the more running he is going to have to do to get back.  This is actually a consideration as most teams want to sit back and counter us. 

Overall, I do not think Gerrard or Lucas are done.  C'mon, Rodgers would not have them on the roster or playing if felt like this.  And as we have seen ad nauseum, these narratives get offered every time we struggle as a team or individual mistakes happen.  How we want to play changes, evolves.  This is what Rodgers brings to Liverpool -----> learning on the fly, not absolute football purity.

If you want to go off on Gerrard this year, which was a mistake last year by a large number of people here, tell him to get going with his corner and free kick service.   But, I suspect he would be the first to say it.     

Gerrard is past it.

[harryc]

We have to get rid of sackofshite.  The guy is a total liability.  Completely clueless.

We'll looking at the in depth analysis of your last two points not sure myself who is more clueless.

[L666KOP]

We have to get rid of sackofshite.  The guy is a total liability.  Completely clueless.

That's a fucking LFC player you're abusing.

I've given out a few hammerings over the days since Saturday, but always tried to be objective, and fair minded.

Never resorted to name calling.

[Corkboy]

We have to get rid of sackofshite.  The guy is a total liability.  Completely clueless.

This is a Round Table thread. Your comments might go unnoticed on a normal thread but not here. Post better or piss off.

[Kopenhagen]

Play Gerrard at centre back in a back four.

[Prof]

Please stop this nonsense about Gerrard.

People saying he can't protect the defence... When the area he's operating in is too big, no one could protect the defence.  It's easy to play down the sides of an exposed midfielder.  It isn't Gerrard's fault, it's us losing possession when the team is stretched vertically with too many players pushed forward and a defence retreating too quickly.

People saying he should play at CB... He'd be more vulnerable to players running off him in that position.  If his mobility is his biggest weakness now (which I don't fully agree with, but seems the popular view) how will playing him in a defence which needs mobility to work help?

Our problems against Villa and West Ham came from poor control of possession and not having a compact enough team at turnover.  Gerrard was isolated, but so would anyone have been in that situation.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Anyone think that we could use Coutinho in the deep playmaker role? Or in those games where teams squeeze in that area we play both as a two? I know it's not great defensively but those two could play their way out against teams pushing us in that area

This would not work so well. 

First, Coutinho invites pressure and tries to dribble out of it at times.  This is fantastic for the final third perimeter and central areas of the pitch, but it would be a disaster in the middle of the park or our defending third, as our shape and his lack of physicality would be even more exposed.

Second, he is not great in the air.  We need a pivot player who has a drive for the ball.  Big forwards coming back into the space between our center-halves and pivot would be able to take the ball down much more easily.  And as a result, we would see more fouls in dangerous areas.  Gerrard tends to get some calls or avoid whistles that others do not.

Third, he is the brain of our team according to Rodgers in a system where we press in certain pockets of the field.  In terms of Rodgers' thinking, we want our brain making decisions higher up the pitch (combining, making decisions, and moving the ball). 

The strategy of playing him in the pivot would not make our defense any better and might even (when in form) inhibit our attacking flow and combination play. 

[decky]

This would not work so well. 

First, Coutinho invites pressure and tries to dribble out of it at times.  This is fantastic for the final third perimeter and central areas of the pitch, but it would be a disaster in the middle of the park or our defending third, as our shape and his lack of physicality would be even more exposed.

Second, he is not great in the air.  We need a pivot player who has a drive for the ball.  Big forwards coming back into the space between our center-halves and pivot would be able to take the ball down much more easily.  And as a result, we would see more fouls in dangerous areas.  Gerrard tends to get some calls or avoid whistles that others do not.

Third, he is the brain of our team according to Rodgers in a system where we press in certain pockets of the field.  In terms of Rodgers' thinking, we want our brain making decisions higher up the pitch (combining, making decisions, and moving the ball). 

The strategy of playing him in the pivot would not make our defense any better and might even (when in form) inhibit our attacking flow and combination play. 

I think we have already played Allen in there, who although is stronger maybe than Coutinho, is not great in the air either and not as creative with the ball. Isn't the current system really using the playmaker with protection from his midfield partner(s)? The only reason Rodgers keeps Gerrard in there is for his ability with the ball IMO, he's hit and miss at the rest of the DM stuff. It's pretty much a quarter back type role.

I'm not saying we play Coutinho in there all the time, but in games where we are pressed in that area Coutinho close to Gerrard may help us get out with clever link up play in those areas, we then have runners such as Lallana, Sterling and Henderson to break into the space between their press and defensive line. The short balls out to the touchline just aren't working for us either as our full backs are also marked to stop this. 

[Robinred]

Static.. The one word that sums up this season so far.. No movement, no energy, no urgency, no fight..

We've gone from this merciless red pressing machine that broke with the ferocity of a rabid dog wolf to a turgid, slow and ponderous tortoise with a soft shell underbelly ready to be ripped apparat when we poke our head out only for a moment.

We seem to have lost our identity completely, this is Rodgers 3rd season and he basically has the players he wanted in his team, yet we look like a frightened rabbit caught in a snare, incapable of anything at speed.. With 5 minutes to go you see Skrtel and Gerrard in our own half passing it between themselves for what seemed an age, to then hoof it forward aimlessly.. Our identity loss was complete.

Harsh maybe, but essentially on the money.

Our energy levels are light years away from last season's. Our sharpness likewise. Our movement up top the same. And it has to be said that teams have learned to be extremely aggressive against us, and to race out of the blocks from the kick off just as we were doing.

Add the loss of form of Henderson and Coutinho, the injuries due to that International break to our best forward and our on form midfielder, and the constant remodelling of the defence, and it's not so difficult to see why we're a shadow of the team we were in our pomp so recently.

It will get better, but at the moment we are doing an impression of Spurs post-Bale - at times showing glimpses of what might be, but mostly lacking coherence. A settled team - in particular a settled defence - would help. As I wrote elsewhere, one of Brendan's strengths is his boldness. It is also one of his weaknesses, and a bigger squad seems to have discombobulated him.

[Durlmints]

I think we have already played Allen in there, who although is stronger maybe than Coutinho, is not great in the air either and not as creative with the ball. Isn't the current system really using the playmaker with protection from his midfield partner(s)? The only reason Rodgers keeps Gerrard in there is for his ability with the ball IMO, he's hit and miss at the rest of the DM stuff. It's pretty much a quarter back type role.

I'm not saying we play Coutinho in there all the time, but in games where we are pressed in that area Coutinho close to Gerrard may help us get out with clever link up play in those areas, we then have runners such as Lallana, Sterling and Henderson to break into the space between their press and defensive line. The short balls out to the touchline just aren't working for us either as our full backs are also marked to stop this.

Allen is a lot safer with the ball than Coutinho.

Coutinho is hollywood stuff.

[decky]

Allen is a lot safer with the ball than Coutinho.

Coutinho is hollywood stuff.

I think in some big games last season he has shown tenacity, high energy and the ability to tackle in midfield. There's more to him than just holywood passes. Look at this video http://vimeo.com/86206731 where he played deeper than Henderson for a lot of the game and used his passing ability to break from deep