Topic: Liverpool 0 v 1 Stoke 1-1 AET 5-4 Pens Lge Cup SF 2nd Lg 26/1/2016 Arnautovic 45

[Rush 82]

Penalties aren't a lottery at all. It's takes skill and nerve. The only part left to chance is the direction the keeper dives but more than often the keeper will do research and try to read body language. 

Wait, wait, are you *gulp* daring to question the common narrative with regard to our goalkeeper and the opinion of inestimable, highly respected Mark Hughes that it was all down to luck

[Rush 82]

It's fine to be gracious in victory when your opponent is gracious in defeat.

When Mark Hughes has the cheek to write off to 'luck' the failure of his spineless tactics (reverting to long ball footy 'cos he's seen us concede to them over the last four weeks) and his team's inability to score a single legitimate goal against us over 220 minutes of football, then it is not time to be gracious; it is time to call it out for the twattery that it is.

Well done Stoke, you managed to give yourselves an outside chance of getting to the final via penalties.

We gritted that out, with a half-crocked, geriatric, injury ridden, physically and mentally knackered team.

Fucking wellin lads.

Lucas had it right after he converted his penno.

Edit: I'm not saying that we didn't get some luck - lucky we had Migs who has it in him to save penalties - they had Butland who went the wrong way every time (if I remember correctly)

[WanderingRed]

What is our penalty shootout record btw?

Sure we've won about 6 of them since Istanbul. Lost in the Europa League last season, don't recall losing any others

There was Northampton Town other than that I don't recall anymore

[the_red_pill]

So....

I've been trying to get my head around this one. Did Stoke win the game last night or did we?

Everyone's been banging on about how Stoke won for the first time in a long time at Anfield. That's incorrect surely?

[Chakan]

It's fine to be gracious in victory when your opponent is gracious in defeat.

When Mark Hughes has the cheek to write off to 'luck' the failure of his spineless tactics (reverting to long ball footy 'cos he's seen us concede to them over the last four weeks) and his team's inability to score a single legitimate goal against us over 240 minutes of football, then it is not time to be gracious; it is time to call it out for the twattery that it is.

Well done Stoke, you managed to give yourselves an outside chance of getting to the final via penalties.

We gritted that out, with a half-crocked, geriatric, injury ridden, physically and mentally knackered team.

Fucking wellin lads.

Lucas had it right after he converted his penno.

Edit: I'm not saying that we didn't get some luck - lucky we had Migs who has it in him to save penalties - they had Butland who went the wrong way every time (if I remember correctly)

I wish I could find the video, there was a twat of a Stoke fan, washing his arms, making faces and generally trying to put Lucas off when he took his pen. Was right behind the goalkeeper. Hence Lucas giving him an earful when he scored.

[Rush 82]

So....

I've been trying to get my head around this one. Did Stoke win the game last night or did we?

Stoke won the game

We won the tie

[the_red_pill]

Stoke won the game

We won the tie

That's the thing mate. How could we win the tie, but lose the game? Doesn't make sense that. Surely, we won the game 5-4?

Final score for a game that goes to penalties is the penalties+any goals during the game?


EDIT: Hmmm... don't bother mate. I think I get it somehow.

[Rush 82]

That's the thing mate. How could we win the tie, but lose the game? Doesn't make sense that. Surely, we won the game 5-4?

First game we won 1-0
Second game, they won 1-0

So, 1-1 over the two games, so it has to be decided by tiebreaker, which we won. In some sense, the tiebreaker exists outside of the game on the night.

Well, that's how I see it anyway.

Edit: or 6-5 on aggregate

[the_red_pill]

First game we won 1-0
Second game, they won 1-0

So, 1-1 over the two games, so it has to be decided by tiebreaker, which we won. In some sense, the tiebreaker exists outside of the game on the night.

Well, that's how I see it anyway.

Yeah... I think I get that now.
Anyway- they're in a bit of a predicament- our fingered cousins... How do you remember winning after such a long time without feeling like shit!

Weird night. A victory they'd want to forget asap

[Rush 82]

Yeah... I think I get that now.
Anyway- they're in a bit of a predicament- our fingered cousins... How do you remember winning after such a long time without feeling like shit!

Weird night.

Stoke: Winning without winning

Liverpool: Losing without losing

[the_red_pill]

Stoke: Winning without winning

Liverpool: Losing without losing

"They was robbed!"

[TrueNorthRED]

For me this whole debate around whether we were lucky or unlucky is a waste of time. As a figure of speech, the phrase works in a flippant sort of way. But true debate (where we seem to be right now) seems disingenuous. Debating whether Stoke were unlucky and we were lucky is quite frankly ridiculous.

"Luck: success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."

Sorry but I don't believe in that definition of "luck".  I think something is perceived lucky (or unlucky) for a person if two things are true: it matters (somehow) to them, and it might easily not have happened. On a different day, a different result. But not luck. Odds, percentages, predictability.

 I do however believe in context. Stoke were incredibly fucking fortunate to have a bullshit goal ruled to stand.

[keyop]

The 'lucky' narrative in the media is mainly because they love a good story, and its easier to make one up about how the 'lucky big team' won against the 'plucky underdog'. It generates more clickbait and twitter/facebook drivel - largely because most football fans are sheep that lap up any shite they read (except us of course  ), but also because a big team beating a smaller team fair and square just doesn't make for interesting reading, even if its true.

Hughes fuelled the story with his bizarre post match comments about how the offside goal was deserved on the balance of play, and how they got the 'moral victory' they deserved.

As for the other debates on here about which penalty had the most pressure - its definitely not Allen's, irrespective of how his popularity may be affected if he missed. If he didn't score, then it still needed another Liverpool player to miss for us to go out, and that player would likely have had the most criticism (earlier misses like Can's rarely seem to matter as much, even though they influence the shootout result by the same margin). Milner and Lucas simply had to score or its over - that's proper pressure as their miss would be the one that cost us the trip to Wembley.

Onwards redmen. Anfield South awaits!

[MichaelA]

Ex-Man Utd and Everton player Mark Hughes calls us lucky? I find it difficult to understand why anyone gives a flying fuck what he thinks. Bitter plastic Manc. And his real name is Leslie. He's still coming to terms with that. 

[heylookitsjacob]

Got to be honest, thought most of the penalties taken by stoke were poor.

Not necessarily in placement, but in body language. I wasn't surprised to see Mignolet dive towards the correct side most of the time.

Not to take away from Migs; that dive for the second save was incredible! Thought he did a great job with his timing of movement and intimidation (kicking the posts, etc.,)

[TepidT2O]

That's the thing mate. How could we win the tie, but lose the game? Doesn't make sense that. Surely, we won the game 5-4?

Final score for a game that goes to penalties is the penalties+any goals during the game?


EDIT: Hmmm... don't bother mate. I think I get it somehow.

Bloody hell, change your sig!!

[-HH-]

Ex-Man Utd and Everton player Mark Hughes calls us lucky? I find it difficult to understand why anyone gives a flying fuck what he thinks. Bitter plastic Manc. And his real name is Leslie. He's still coming to terms with that. 

I care more that our own "supporters" are in agreement.

[Hunts Cross]

Stoke won the game

We won the tie

They were winning after 90 mins. That is 'normal time' not the game. the game went to pens.

[mallin9]

Ex-Man Utd and Everton player Mark Hughes calls us lucky? I find it difficult to understand why anyone gives a flying fuck what he thinks. Bitter plastic Manc. And his real name is Leslie. He's still coming to terms with that.

hahahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahah

[sideshowme]

looks like we get to thrash city again in the final, minus their second best player

the treble is on

[24/7]

Tell me ma, me ma.........

[Rush 82]

They were winning after 90 mins. That is 'normal time' not the game. the game went to pens.

Ok.

So, the definition of 'win', given that it's a two-parter, in order of priority is

1. Win on aggregate over 180-210 minutes
2. If equal on aggregate after 210, whoever has more away goals wins
3. If equal on aggregate after 210, with the same number of away goals, whoever scores more penalties wins

The penalties are not an extension of the 2nd game, if they are, the penalty goals scored by Stoke should count as away goals.

Therefore, for me,
- Liverpool wins the first game;
- Stoke wins the second game;
- Liverpool wins the tiebreaker -> Liverpool goes to Wembley, Stoke go home 

Edit: If it's not a 'two-parter' then  you are 100% correct 'cos the penalties then form part of the game being played.

Edit 2: It's not really important - just the pedant in me 
 

[Crosby Nick]

There was Northampton Town other than that I don't recall anymore

That Besikats and a League Cup tie away at Wimbledon in 93/94 (i think) are the only competitive shoot outs we've ever lost.

[stockdam]

Stoke won the game last night. If they had won by 2--0 then there would have been no extra time and they would have won both the game and the tie. They won the game last night by 1-0; so whether they won by 2-0 or any other score makes no difference.....they won. The extra time was due to the fact that the aggregate score was the same and so it went to extra time and then penalties.

As for luck...........we were not lucky to end up drawing after two legs. Stoke were lucky as they needed a blatant incorrect decision to go their way. Other than that they had......err........zero shots on target. They hit the post once and so did we. We had a handball that could have been given as a penalty (I watched it again and the defender moved his left arm well above his head and made no attempt to keep it down.......a harsh penalty but it could have been given). So who would have been the lucky team if they had gone through on an offside goal?

Our penalties were not lucky........not one of them was close to being saved. Mignolet's saves were both good. Ok there's an element of luck that he guessed right but the saves themselves were good.

We deserved to win the first leg and so there was no luck there.

Luck my arse. That's just sour grapes from a bad loser whose team had more possession but created zero shots on target.......zero. What a clown and what a sore loser. "We were clearly the better team".......better at what exactly? Stoke were not effective......stoke scored a lucky/fortunate goal........Stoke messed up their penalties.......and somehow we are all to fall for the BS about luck.

Sakho's blocks were not lucky. Simon's saves were not lucky. Joe's penalty was not lucky. Stoke's goal was lucky so just piss off and stop the hard luck stories.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Gonna be tough v City but these are the moments that have defined the modern history of this club, here's to one more chapter

[firing squad]

Soooooo, we're in a cup final again!!!!   

[terry_macss_perm]

That Besikats and a League Cup tie away at Wimbledon in 93/94 (i think) are the only competitive shoot outs we've ever lost.

Read somewhere that we've won 14 of 17 overall. Liverweb has a detailed list of them but it stops at 2012.

[the_red_pill]

Bloody hell, change your sig!!

[Crosby Nick]

Read somewhere that we've won 14 of 17 overall. Liverweb has a detailed list of them but it stops at 2012.

I'm missing one and don't want to look them up! Put me out of my misery!...

Won 14
European Cup:
Roma 1984
Milan 2005
Chelsea 2007

League Cup:
Birmingham 00/01
Ipswich 02/03
Spurs 04/05
Cardiff 11/12
Boro 14/15
Carlisle 15/16
Stoke 15/16

FA Cup
Portsmouth 1992
Birmingham 1995
West Ham 2006

[redtel]

I'm missing one and don't want to look them up! Put me out of my misery!...

Won 14
European Cup:
Roma 1984
Milan 2005
Chelsea 2007

League Cup:
Birmingham 00/01
Ipswich 02/03
Spurs 04/05
Cardiff 11/12
Boro 14/15
Carlisle 15/16
Stoke 15/16

FA Cup
Portsmouth 1992
Birmingham 1995
West Ham 2006

Leeds -Charity Shield 1974.  Wembley, 7-6.

Request to Oddball. Can you alter header to 6-5 it's been bugging me. 

[Filler.]

http://www.lfchistory.net/Stats/PenaltyShootouts.aspx



Ah the greatness of lfchistory.net.

[Filler.]

Our history on pens has always intrigued me, considering the mind warp of watching England do them. We have been pretty bloody good at them. That's not to say that I'm calm in the face of a storm of pen shoot outs, I'm not, but we don't have that historical weight that England does. Well done Joe Allen for that pen kick to carry it on. Have to say tho, as someone who shall we say, raised an eyebrow about us signing Benteke... I thought his pen set a tone. Lovely lovely pen. Gave me confidence.

[Alan_X]

Our history on pens has always intrigued me, considering the mind warp of watching England do them. We have been pretty bloody good at them. That's not to say that I'm calm in the face of a storm of pen shoot outs, I'm not, but we don't have that historical weight that England does. Well done Joe Allen for that pen kick to carry it on. Have to say tho, as someone who shall we say, raised an eyebrow about us signing Benteke... I thought his pen set a tone. Lovely lovely pen. Gave me confidence.

It's the same with the media obsession with German teams. Liverpool have been beating German teams for years. 

[Dougle]

You could see Hughes signalling to his players to calm down and see the game out for pens with ten minutes left and he reckons we were desperate for pens. the Irony

What Mark Hughes says is entirely irrelavent. He is the boss of Stoke and what he says is about creating a narrative for internal Stoke consumption and also perhaps for the media in general. Who cares what he says and what relation it has to the truth ... doesn't matter. Fact is he bottled it. Now he ain't gonna say that is he ?

Also the fact is we were better than Stoke in the penalty shootout, more skilled, better execution and more presence of mind ... we handled it they didn't ... He ain't gonna say that either is he ?

[Bobinhood]

plus their goal was fucking offside.

[Miklagard]

I loved that we won but we were shite, absolotely shite. So far from good enough.

[Passmaster Molby]

We're on the march with Juergen's aaaaaarmy,
We're all going to Wem-ber-ley!!!