Topic: FT - Liverpool 2 vs Burnley 1 (Barnes 7', Gini 45', Can 60')

[Yevgeny]

The vast majority of goals we concede aren't down to us being overly exposed on the counter attack. That's a relatively recent pattern. Most of the goals we concede are down to basic individual errors that are fairly irrelevant to the space our defence has to control.

And I disagree that Matip's a "top class" centre back. He had a very solid two or three months when he came in (with two or three errors, like the goal against Chelsea) but he's made his fair share of mistakes since he's come back.

Matip existed before he arrived at Liverpool. He'd been excellent for Schalke for a few years before we bought him and was extremely highly rated in Germany. He even made the Bundesliga team of the year (on Whoscored and Sofascore) last year. We didn't pluck him from nowhere. Was a real coup getting him in, especially on a free. Ridiculous deal. Now we need to find him a partner.

Also, don't really remember any errors from him, aside from the recent Chelsea game at home, when he was just back from injury/Cameroon being twats. Very harsh to call the Costa goal in the Stamford Bridge game an error on Matip's part. That was just good play by Matic to create the chance. An error is more like what Lovren did against Palace or Klavan against Southampton in the first leg of the semi final.

[A Dick]

A win's a win. Thought Gini was good and Matip in the second half in particular won everything, was defending on his own at times!

Think Coutinho would be much more useful through the middle but there's no way you can drop Gini or Lallana for him to be there. I just think our attacking is so lop sided with Coutinho not being a winger so cutting inside and Milner having to cut back onto his right foot to cross.

Think Phil would really benefit from a good left footed full back making overlapping runs as it means he'd be much harder to predict. Patrice Evra made a career at Man U for just doing nothing but making overlapping runs for Cristiano Ronaldo, his run was ignored 9 times out of 10 but it still stretches stubborn defences like the one we faced yesterday. I think there's even an argument to play Moreno in these sorts of games for that reason.

On the other side Clyne has been average for a few months now, I just think we need a second right back to a) challenge him and b) give him a rest. If you look at Kyle Walker at Spurs you'd have said a year ago there wasn't much between him and Clyne but now he seems miles ahead and he has Trippier providing competition and cover. Probably too risky against City and Everton but wouldnt mind seeing TAA start a couple games before the season is over.

They're both class acts but just need to be utilised a bit better imo.

[007.lankyguy]

Matip existed before he arrived at Liverpool. He'd been excellent for Schalke for a few years before we bought him and was extremely highly rated in Germany. He even made the Bundesliga team of the year (on Whoscored and Sofascore) last year. We didn't pluck him from nowhere.

I watched him a lot for Schalke so this is completely irrelevant.

And you do lose a bit of credibility for using whoscored ratings as a remotely relevant tool for judging a player.

[Yevgeny]

I watched him a lot for Schalke so this is completely irrelevant.

And you do lose a bit of credibility for using whoscored ratings as a remotely relevant tool for judging a player.

Oh no, credibility with you is all I live for

[007.lankyguy]

Oh no, credibility with you is all I live for

Wow, you really are missing the point...

And this all over me simply saying that I don't think Matip is "top class".

[Phil M]

Matip existed before he arrived at Liverpool. He'd been excellent for Schalke for a few years before we bought him and was extremely highly rated in Germany. He even made the Bundesliga team of the year (on Whoscored and Sofascore) last year. We didn't pluck him from nowhere.

WhoScored I'm reliably informed are in partnership with the S*n.

[darragh85]

thought Mignolet played well in this one. was brave coming for some of the cross and long balls the put in. keep it up

[stockdam]

thought Mignolet played well in this one. was brave coming for some of the cross and long balls the put in. keep it up

Agreed.

[RogerTheRed]

Think I saw that Lovren is playing for U23 tonight. Presumably for less than an hour and then ready for City on Sunday

[Isaacsways]

We won, pretty poor performance but we won... We've still got a huge way to go though. Player investment is vital this summer, the defence and midfield for the most part needs huge improvements, we concede far too many goals and look so open at the back, something Klopp hasn't got a handle on yet in my opinion. We;ve never looked good in defence since the Rafa days to be honest. For us to achieve top 4 this season would be a good season for us. Lets hope we hang on for 4th

[B0151?]

We won, pretty poor performance but we won... We've still got a huge way to go though. Player investment is vital this summer, the defence and midfield for the most part needs huge improvements, we concede far too many goals and look so open at the back, something Klopp hasn't got a handle on yet in my opinion. We;ve never looked good in defence since the Rafa days to be honest. For us to achieve top 4 this season would be a good season for us. Lets hope we hang on for 4th

I think we should be hoping for more than that. I don't think there's much to separate us, Spurs, Arsenal and City in terms of quality (and obviously points too). We should be competing with all 3 and that's what we should expect.

Obviously our expectations should be tampered with the reality we have a team that has struggled in this second half of the season, for some of the reasons you mention, but I think we're better than hoping for that.

[Phil M]

Been a while since we've seen Barnes score at Anfield.

[jillcwhomever]

Oh this video, has anyone got a link to it?

I have sent you a pm.

[jillcwhomever]

Top post, Rhi. I wonder how many of these moaning c*nts are the same moaning c*nts that duck out for a cappuccino in the 37th minute and/or fuck off early? The amount of people who left before the final whistle yesterday was embarrassing. Quite simply, there are a proportion of our supporter base that don't have the stomach for the fight.

Echo your thought's about Rhi's excellent post. It is really disappointing to hear about so many people leaving early, despite the manager appealing for people to stay to the end. I think you're last sentence sadly says it all.

[Dougle]

Just watched the whole game. We really had to fight in the second half and we did. There are players out of form at the moment so our touch and confidence was not great yesterday. Nope we had to fight and battle against a really well organised, big, physical and tactically switched on Burnley side. They made sure it was played on their terms and I thought we did far better than we gave ourselves credit for. A really good 3 points, coming from behind as we all like to do .... ! Happy days.

[Garnier]

The performance was nothing to write home about, but i want to single out one thing that got my attention recently.

What the hell has happened to Emre Can? Bit unfair to talk about him seeing as he scored, but last season people were saying he's a future captain, rolls royce of a player and a lynchpin of the side for many years to come. At the moment he's looking pretty rubbish compared to what we know he's capable of and of course there's the contract situation which he has to absolutely make the most of Jordan Henderson's absence to earn it. The way things change in football over the course of a few months or so it's actually unbelievable, maybe by the end of the season Emre's best form will have returned. And Daniel Sturridge back amongst the goals. That's the stuff

[jckliew]

The performance was nothing to write home about, but i want to single out one thing that got my attention recently.

What the hell has happened to Emre Can? Bit unfair to talk about him seeing as he scored, but last season people were saying he's a future captain, rolls royce of a player and a lynchpin of the side for many years to come. At the moment he's looking pretty rubbish compared to what we know he's capable of and of course there's the contract situation which he has to absolutely make the most of Jordan Henderson's absence to earn it. The way things change in football over the course of a few months or so it's actually unbelievable, maybe by the end of the season Emre's best form will have returned. And Daniel Sturridge back amongst the goals. That's the stuff

Can has no thread. That's why. 

[Ciara (with a capital "C")]

I get torn between 'We dug in and ground out a win without playing well' and 'That's so fucking worrying that performances haven't improved, collectively and individually.'

Think it's just one of them where you take the points at this stage and hope that Klopp is learning so much from this spell of games.

Thought the Woodburn substitution was an interesting one. I personally am of the opinion that he wanted to introduce him that early incase a goal wasnlt forthcoming, and sending on someone so inexperienced with 10 to go if still 1-1 would be a sign a panic and desparation - perhaps sending out the wrong message to Burnley. Delighted we got the goal as he was getting tactical instructions but had we scored earlier, I wonder if he would have made that substitution. Maybe Moreno instead.

I think the lineup desperately needs freshening up - too many inconsistent performers.

Obviously we will be back to our normal lineup against City (minus Henderson), but in the games after, surely we need an injection of something... different.

Massive game v City, must not loose IMO. All of those other top 4 challengers have each other to play, so if we can avoid defeat, we give ourselves a good chance of getting in there.

I enjoy these big games under Klopp but how can you help worrying that we are due a loss in one of these? I feel shit saying it. But I feel it. We are gong to need a much better performance than Sunday. Players like Coutinho, Clyne, Milner, Can need to step it up.

[Dubred]

The performance was nothing to write home about, but i want to single out one thing that got my attention recently.

What the hell has happened to Emre Can? Bit unfair to talk about him seeing as he scored, but last season people were saying he's a future captain, rolls royce of a player and a lynchpin of the side for many years to come. At the moment he's looking pretty rubbish compared to what we know he's capable of and of course there's the contract situation which he has to absolutely make the most of Jordan Henderson's absence to earn it. The way things change in football over the course of a few months or so it's actually unbelievable, maybe by the end of the season Emre's best form will have returned. And Daniel Sturridge back amongst the goals. That's the stuff

Emre Can after the Burnley game -

''I had the feeling I would come back, I had the feeling that I was getting strong again, and I know what I am able to do when I am fit, when I'm pain-free.

"Today it was a step forward and I have to keep it up. I had problems with my calf and I didn't want to [have] a break and the manager didn't want it, I wanted to help my team. ''

We definitely haven't seen the best of Can this season.  But the above may go some way to explaining why.

Plus, he is still young, which we tend to forget.

[pezzzer]

This was the first game I've been to for a few years and I've got to say I was dreading it after the way we've played against smaller teams this year, but we dug in and got a very good win against a side who basically ran out with a 10 man midfield to stop us playing. Matip was excellent at the back and was our best player, Mane looked class every time he ran at goal (I was behind the Anfield road goal) .

It's the first time I've seen Klopp and I don't know if it's a usual thing but during the warm up he just stood on the half way line right infront of the Burnley players warming up and watched them constantly for the whole session. Brilliant.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Been a while since we've seen Barnes score at Anfield.

Haha, I thought that too!

[Samie]

Young Ben could get international honours soon. 


Liverpool forward Ben Woodburn could make Wales World Cup squad http://www.itv.com/news/update/2017-03-14/liverpool-forward-woodburn-could-make-wales-squad/ …

[Johnny B. Goode]

Emre Can after the Burnley game -

''I had the feeling I would come back, I had the feeling that I was getting strong again, and I know what I am able to do when I am fit, when I'm pain-free.

"Today it was a step forward and I have to keep it up. I had problems with my calf and I didn't want to [have] a break and the manager didn't want it, I wanted to help my team. ''

We definitely haven't seen the best of Can this season.  But the above may go some way to explaining why.

Plus, he is still young, which we tend to forget.

Shocking that we were playing him whilst injured. We have no depth.

[Buenasnoches]

Shocking that we were playing him whilst injured.

And it's Can who gets a load of shite off the fans for not playing well

[LiamG]

Just want to say, Mignolet had a really good game didn't he?

[RayPhilAlan]

Just want to say, Mignolet had a really good game didn't he?

Great to see him win the ball in the air so many times.

His distribution still annoys me though. He sends so many long balls that we don't have a hope of winning.

[classycarra]

Great to see him win the ball in the air so many times.

His distribution still annoys me though. He sends so many long balls that we don't have a hope of winning.

For this game, I'd blame the crowd, Klopp and Origi more for that than Mignolet.

[Johns_Barn]

And it's Can who gets a load of shite off the fans for not playing well

But what do you expect? We couldn't  string 3 passes for much of the 1st half which is way below standards and Emre was the worst culprit...super basic stuff, too.
Now I know, I'm more upset with the club and manager for suggesting there was nothingnthey could do to improve the squad in the last window to the extent we're playing injured players. If we improve in what look like the most obvious areas, that could be 5 new first teamers in one window. We all remember what happened the last time we brought several new players in one fell swoop. We saw it as Spurs, too.

[-HH-]

But what do you expect? We couldn't  string 3 passes for much of the 1st half which is way below standards and Emre was the worst culprit...super basic stuff, too.
Now I know, I'm more upset with the club and manager for suggesting there was nothingnthey could do to improve the squad in the last window to the extent we're playing injured players. If we improve in what look like the most obvious areas, that could be 5 new first teamers in one window. We all remember what happened the last time we brought several new players in one fell swoop. We saw it as Spurs, too.

Here's the thing though, it's not sustainable to make signings because of injuries. We have numbers in central midfield- Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Can, Grujic, Stewart, Lucas. If Klopp is choosing Can to play when 3 of those are injured and 1 is deputising as a defensive option then it's not to do with depth it's to do with how many injuries we have.

And I think saying "there's nothing we could do to improve the squad" and "there's nothing sensible we can do to improve the squad" are very different things.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Here's the thing though, it's not sustainable to make signings because of injuries. We have numbers in central midfield- Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Can, Grujic, Stewart, Lucas. If Klopp is choosing Can to play when 3 of those are injured and 1 is deputising as a defensive option then it's not to do with depth it's to do with how many injuries we have.

And I think saying "there's nothing we could do to improve the squad" and "there's nothing sensible we can do to improve the squad" are very different things.

When did Stewart get injured?

You can't seriously believe he's a credible squad option at this stage? I think he's got enough talent to make it as a lower Premier League player but if Klopp truly believed in his ability we'd have seen him in a league game within the last six months.

[Dubred]

When did Stewart get injured?

You can't seriously believe he's a credible squad option at this stage? I think he's got enough talent to make it as a lower Premier League player but if Klopp truly believed in his ability we'd have seen him in a league game within the last six months.

I don't see why someone like Stewart isn't good enough for a team of our aspirations, as a 4th/ 5th choice backup.

Ferguson was very successful having back up players of the same ilk during his days.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I don't see why someone like Stewart isn't good enough for a team of our aspirations, as a 4th/ 5th choice backup.

Ferguson was very successful having back up players of the same ilk during his days.

Yes but Ferguson actually used his O'Shea's, his Fletcher's, his Park's, even his Gibson's regularly throughout a season. If Klopp didn't play Stewart at Sunderland, less than 48 hours after a physically and mentally draining win against Manchester City, and with Jordan Henderson out injured, when will he?

What's the point of him being a "4th/5th choice backup" if he never actually plays in the scenarios we need him? Either Klopp disagrees with you that he is good enough in that role, or we're being dangerously cheap in terms of our squad balance. I think it's a bit of both frankly.

We haven't had seven options for those three midfield positions. By and large we've had four, which certainly won't be enough next season.

[-HH-]

When did Stewart get injured?

Errr. He didn't. What I said was 3 injuries. Henderson, Grujic, Can.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Errr. He didn't. What I said was 3 injuries. Henderson, Grujic, Can.

OK but you said choosing to play Can when three of those are injured which suggests three different players.

I think you got the point though. Stewart can't be classed as a credible option when he hasn't played in the league since September despite, to my knowledge, being fit for that entire period. Neither can Lucas in that position other than the occasional late cameo to try and protect a small lead. And using an injury to a young lad getting used to English football anyway as an excuse for a lack of squad depth feels generous in the extreme.

I think a lack of depth/quality at centre back and in wide areas has cost us much more this season fwiw. But with European football next season we're definitely going to need another durable, quality option in there to take the heat off those four lads. We won't get away with it again.