Author Topic: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.  (Read 10191 times)

Offline Hinesy

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round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« on: December 18, 2011, 04:06:13 pm »
don't like McLeish and happy we beat them. Wasn't sure where Jamie was meant to play when he came on and disagreed that Bellamy the Terrier was man of the match: too many missed passes for me. Luis so unlucky not to score and Carroll at Christmas? Difficult for him to impress in a team that is comfortably ahead and not pressing but still doesn't shine out for me. Thoughts?
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Offline Col

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2011, 06:54:33 pm »
I thought Bellamy was very good, and I always feel confident he'll be involved when he plays.

Suarez was anonymous in the first half, then sparked up a little after the break - and it's a luxury for us to have scored a couple without him playing well.

Downing was - and this is probably against the grain for most - a step behind where he left off at QPR - too often he refused to get at Warnock when presented with a 1v1, opting instead to turn back inside and play the safe option. He kept possession well, but when a winger is presented with space to run at a full-back, simply keeping possession is the fifth option he should be taking. The slightly preferable option is to wait for the overlap, which Johnson provided a few times, without having any end product himself.

I want to see Downing driving in and shooting (if on the right), crossing the ball, or looking to play a striker in behind. They are the three options that should be going through his head every single time he gets the ball, yet he always seems to bypass them and go for the two safe choices. He's scared to take risks and make mistakes, which you can't allow yourself to be if you want to make a difference in a Premier League game.


The major plus side for me was the fact we had three ball-players in the midfield. Today showed that we can afford to go into games against average opposition (and average is being kind to this Villa side, they were absolute bobbins for most of the game) without a specialist holding player. Henderson has found his role in the team now, and should be played in that position every single time he's fit and available. He keeps the ball almost like Lucas does, but further up the pitch. It's a Godsend watching that, instead of seeing the ball bounce off our players as we play around in the final third.

Jonjo looked good for me, if a little nervous with his shooting. He's clearly eager to make an impression, and he always wanted the ball. Very positive indeed.

The defence was, well, pretty much as our defence has been since Agger and Skrtel settled down. I'm no big fan of Skrtel, but Agger brings the best out of him and they compliment each other tremendously. I hope they both stay fit and on form.


The one big elephant in the room is still Andy Carroll. Dress it up however you like, he's a lolloping, lazy bastard. I spent a fair chunk of the game laughing at Emile Heskey's apparent inability to move, dribble, pass, or do anything even vaguely useful with the ball. I stopped laughing when Andy Carroll came on, and looked like a Christmas re-release.

Twenty minutes at the end of a game might not be enough time to imprint yourself on it in terms of showing your true quality, but to not chase people down and not burst a gut to get into the box when we're breaking is inexcusable.

One look at Edin Dzeko for City today shows you how to play the substitute striker's role if your team's ahead - he ran his bollocks off chasing down anything and everything. Carroll stands and watches the centre backs pass square balls to each other.

I really rate him, I think he's got a bagful of ability and potential, but until he sorts his atrocious attitude out I couldn't care less if he never played for us again. When he was at Newcastle, I was praying United wouldn't sign him, because he'd have turned into Alan Shearer. There days, we might as well give a shirt to Allan Carr. I'm just hoping Kenny can turn him around, and hasn't made one huge, huge mistake in signing this boy.

Overall it's been a good weekend, with our victory and Arsenal, Newcastle, and Chelsea all dropping points.


Wigan away on Wednesday - a big one, but we should piss it.
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Offline blert596

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Re: Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool: Full time...
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 10:47:21 pm »
Thought we done well but after going two up so early on, would have liked us to really force the game and get a few goals. Instead what we got was a "comfortable" win that the players seemed happy to play out after 20 minutes. I suppose with a busy schedule coming up it can be understood - still it would have been nice to really rattle a few in and get a few more on the scoresheet.

Saying that, we still could have had 5 at least. And that was without going for it.

For me, Bellamy was the pick of the bunch the narky little sod. He seems to be getting as much of a hard time off the refs as Luis is at the moment. Thought he was gonna be off at some time today :-)

Very wasteful from Luis a few times. The chip was great but he should have scored the one that come off the bar. And he had another few opportunities where he seemed unsure as to what to do as well - and (IMO) didnt always choose the right one. Still, if thats what we get after only 2 half days training PLUS all the hassle thats surrounding him here's hoping things start to look up for him. Strangely, this was one of the games that he's suffered the least amount of bad challenges. I was expecting much more physicallity from Dunne and co.

Adam, for all his vision was pretty average. And thats the second time he's wasted a chance by purely going for personal glory at the expense of the team. 2nd time in almost exactly the same position. Fucking annoys me when I see anyone doing it.

But thats enough of the negatives. I thought apart from the above isolated incidents, everyone done admirably in making sure the game was seen through at a canter. All the defenders were very good, and Johnson would have got my MOTM if his final ball had been a bit better. Thought he defended well, and chose his moments to attack well.

Midfield were functional without being inspiring. As was the attack really.

All in all a great 3 points and hopefully this gives Villa a kick up the arse before Arse come calling this week. We're quietly becoming a bit of a force really.
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Offline James Mac

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Re: Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool: Full time...
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 11:52:58 pm »
Positives for me:

Continued incredible backline of Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique. Thought all of them were exceptional today, although really, we didn't need to invite any pressure on ourselves.

Henderson and Shelvey: should be the future of this club. Neat touches, assured going forward, not afraid of the ball, good with passing. All you want in your midfield. Shelvey not afraid to shoot either.

Downing. Looked really strong, didn't let the boos or the boo boys get to him. Thought he was unlucky not to bag a goal.

Suarez - really unlucky not to get two. Is that 15 times this season we've hit the woodwork?

Special mentions to Bellamy and Carroll (who I thought held the ball up exceptionally, although he really does look a touch off the pace at the moment).

Only negatives were that after the first two, we didn't seem to want to get any more. I don't know, we obviously went forward, but it just seemed a bit... typical. I'd have to watch the game again to explain why I feel like that, although I suspect it's to do with us dropping deep post-goals.

Offline Garstonite

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2011, 01:11:25 pm »
Am I the only person who has a really unique sense of pride in having the best defensive record in the league? Moreso than the season we scored the most goals, even (although this is obviously an area we need to improve on). I love having the reputation of being an absolute twat to break down. When we went two-nil up, I had total confidence that we'd see the game out. You need that foundation at any level and we have it. I absolutely love watching Skrtel and Agger together. They're telepathic. Would Agger have had the confidence to bring the ball forward with such regularity alongside Carra? I'm not so sure. And it's not as if we're a defensive side either. Not by an stretch of the imagination.

Two clean sheets without Lucas is a massive bonus, although there were times that both QPR and Villa found space inbetween and behind Henderson and Adam. A better side (ie. City in the cup) WILL exploit that.

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 02:57:22 pm »
I totally agree with Garstonette about the Agger-Skrtel partnership.
It's amazing what two solid players at the back can do in confidence to the rest of the team.
Skrtel in particular seems to be a hell of a lot more confident having a decent footballer along side him.
I just hope that we don't have any injuries or suspensions to either of them.   :-X


Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 04:20:51 pm »
Oh and...
When was the last time that we scored 2 goals as a result of corner kicks?

Offline Carra-ton

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 04:50:26 pm »
We started the game really well, but we are so desperate for points, that we became very cautious when the two goals went in.
Disagree about Bellamy, you aren't going to get a Dennis Bergkamp or a Messi, but he has a good footballing brain and decent skill, add to that that he has pace, plus the fact he is the only striker who can buy a goal at the moment, makes him invaluable.
What to say, we have a definite passing style and I have noticed that many a teams struggle to get the ball back of us very easily, I really like that and would like us to build up to the point where we keep the ball for 2-3mins before we hand over possession.
Agger and Skrtel are looking really good, and the only problem is Agger and his fitness. Hope they continue. Also, Glen has been fantastic along with Enrique, defensively as well.
A special mention to Pepe, he didn't have much to do, but his handling was so assured, a real comfort, knowing that Pepe is there. unlike the time when he came here and was a great shot stopper but there was a bit of a doubt about his ball collection.
This team needs a bit more dynamism, and we really need a fit and firing Gerrard in there. Also, I think we need a striker, and there is no hiding from it. Someone like a Darren Bent, but with a better touch, we need a pacy striker who has a bit of power and can finish.
Andy Carroll, he really is a sad story there. Feel for the lad, but this isn't charity, unless he shows dramatic improvement, I can't see him ever holding a spot in the first eleven. A good 35million sub at best.
Good game from Downing, people underestimate the 20-30 yards quick transfer that he gives us. He shifts the play up the pitch with a good run, and for me with this club which refuses to buy and play fast wingers, that is invaluable. His overall play might not be up to the mark, but he gives us that which is very important.
Adam - I have become a fan, he is a master in the rough, and he is going to be a real hit here within a short span. Hendo, was brilliant as well, this kid has massive potential, and it is up to him whether he wants to take it to another level.
Shelvey did well, and I really hope he gets more chances.

All in all, we need more quality - genuine quality up top else we will struggle.
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Offline -Willo-

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 04:53:01 pm »
At the end they had given up, and we could, and should have capitalized furthermore, there is such a lack of quality and edge to our front-line without Luis its scary, when he was took off the movement was really worrying, yes I know it was the end of the game but I'm not using we were tired as an excuse as Villa didn't actually do anything all game, they reminded me of us against Wolves under Hodgson, just so, so shite, none of them wanted the ball, they had no idea what to do with it and when they had the ball for the majority of the final say 5 minutes, they passed it about as if they were the ones holding onto a win not us.

The way in which we were attacking was so slow and so many opportunities where there whereby we'd have a potential 3 on 2/2 on 2 yet we didn't take it because some of our passing was slack and generally the movement, particularly in the 2nd half just tailed off, maybe that was due to Carroll coming on for Suarez? I'm not sure but it happened to most of the players, I'd like to think they didn't take it easy as goal difference may be key come May its that tight the league now.

Impressed with Shelvey, slotted in nicely and played as if he's been playing within this team for ages (especialy considering these players we have who need so called time to adapt within our team), more of the same against Wigan please, should he start.

Adam was good again, he hasn't had a bad game for a while now, good to see.

And well, our back 4 was boss, as usual.




« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 04:55:00 pm by -Willo- »

Offline lamonti

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 05:20:15 pm »
Oh and...
When was the last time that we scored 2 goals as a result of corner kicks?

When was the last time we scored 2 goals!

Offline lamonti

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 05:26:30 pm »
Overall, it was nice to see us win a game like this without breaking a sweat. Villa were terrible and we grabbed too cheap-ish goals. Ones that we could have done with in many other games. We were still wasteful with a lot of possession and I thought Adam had a poor game in some respects (not that bad, but not that great either). Back four very comfortable on the ball. Bellamy and Downing both good at forcing the issue but also wasteful with the ball at times.

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 05:32:31 pm »
The back four are perfoming brilliantly. When the full-backs pushed on, Agger and Skrtel pulled wide, and a midfielder dropped in to make it a 3.

Routine win really. We won at an absolute canter, they are struggling for confidence and the two early goals hit them like a sledgehammer. As said, the defence was the biggest positive for me. They look solid and seem to be getting better, and a defender contributed with a goal, which is needed over the course of a season.

Downing was alright without ever being great, though criticism of him not getting at the full-back must be tempered by him spending a fair bit of the game on the right as an inverted winger. This would have allowed Johnson to push on, but it wasn't needed as we got ahead early and were away from home.

Sensible, workmanlike 3 points away from home. Can never grumble with that. Onwards to Wigan.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 06:03:51 pm »
Overall, it was nice to see us win a game like this without breaking a sweat. Villa were terrible and we grabbed too cheap-ish goals. Ones that we could have done with in many other games. We were still wasteful with a lot of possession and I thought Adam had a poor game in some respects (not that bad, but not that great either). Back four very comfortable on the ball. Bellamy and Downing both good at forcing the issue but also wasteful with the ball at times.

This. Special mention of commendation for Glen Johnson who had a particularly good game (despite a couple of trade-marked brain farts, albeit in the final third).

I do not mind one bit a slower build-up and what appear to be drilled-in/practiced triangles and quadrangles. I do mind the inexplicable and frustrating surrendering of possession with one or two boneheaded attempted passes when obvious and positive passes were eschewed.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 06:51:51 pm »
Can i just echo the calls about Agger and Skrtel totally commanding at the back, for me Enrique has stopped going forward as much with Bellamy in front of him, not a criticism just an observation because Enrique is superb in defence.

I was loving the Adam/Henderson/Shelvey in the middle at times playing beyond their years and would we see Henderson playing so well had Lucas been fit, now and then you get good things out of bad luck!

I thought Downing and Glen team up well on the right and that is the way to go there.

Star of the show for me was Bellamy I think it was Jen Chang on Twitter who called him a 'rabid sonic the hedgehog' given I watched him chase people down from the left to the right in one period of play this description is fairly accurate for me!

As for Luis, the lob was majestic but please now and then just tap the ball in the net rather than belt it as with his first effort on the bar,  he needs luck and better composure in front of goal.

We were so dominant at times Pepe could have got himself a deck chair and a cup of tea, I cannot remember him needing to make a decent save all game. The only scare was a deflected shot.

As for them so glad we didn't buy Charlie boy.

Also did we get lucky for once with the ref on a penalty call?

In the end I loved the performance and for once never worried about ever losing this after the start we got, this was a great performance to push on from over the xmas period and the rest of the season!
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Offline John C

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 09:40:08 pm »
I'm finding an interesting theme to some of our post game discussions - there's always new positives to highlight. Its not just that Skrtel has improved and is solid in a brilliant centre back pairing, but each passing week sees the Agger we've longed for, start a game, do what we know he's capable of and be there at the final whistle to clap the fans without so much as a dislocated finger.
Add to that Shelvey's superb and unexpected contribution in supporting Suarez and things just keep looking brighter.

I've seen us turn Villa over a good few times in my day but I don't recall should a bad performance, particularly at their ground. A Championship team would have beaten them yesterday. But that shouldn't detract from our achievement, it wasn't our fault we were able to pass and play neatly with a ball they didn't want possession of.

Don't forget they tried to change it before the hour mark bringing Bannan on and altering the shape throughout the second half with no return for their sorry effort. They were bad but we were also simply too good for them.

I have to add also though that the theme also continues regarding decisions, in a game when there was very, very little for him to do, the ref wrongly booked Bellamy - you may think its not worth worrying about but he'll end up being suspended due to some silly decisions.

6 points from the next two games would be simply delicious, not just because I'm hoping we'll catch the pack, but because we really need to get out of the habit of stop/start runs.

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 09:47:00 pm »
I missed the first half as I was still in bed. I haven't woke up after 10am for 5 years? Heavy heavy night in London. Thought my phone was on the blink as it said 2:24pm. (bedtime was 8 am - I'm too old for that shit) Massive panic. Called up a mate... 'It's 2-0'. Fucking ace. 'Who scored? I asked etc... 'how were they scored?'. Two corners. I had a real good laugh to myself. In Neil D's thread of a few days ago I made a comment on the corners and gave a stat that on average, 1 goal is scored from every 50 corners. I deleted a line that read, 'and if we get 14 corners and score from two we'll be back up to average (think we've had 140/150 odd and scored 3) as I thought it would put a hex on it.

Did manage to watch the second half and we weren't rushed were we? Aston Villa were extraordinarily shite with a capital 'F' tho. A few question marks still hang over a number of issues, but a few have been answered.

Thought the chalkboards were interesting tho. They often aren't.

Offline John C

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 11:07:43 pm »
I'm very, very surprised Villa had that many successful passes. I thought it was atrocious at times.

Offline redprodigal

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2011, 12:06:54 am »
Always happy with the 3 points but I thought we should have buried them. We were saying in the second half that those missed chances could come back to bite us but they never ever threatened. Their team were as flat as their fans and we really should have scored a hatful. I can't remember a more toothless display from a home team. I would be made up if Wigan put up a similar show but there's no way that will happen.
Good points were Shelvey looked useful, Henderson is improving and Skrtel seems to be a different player these days. Bellamy gives us more oomph too and I'd start him most weeks. A great dead ball kicker and together with Adam and Downing has improved our corner kicks so much that I now expect us to create danger from a corner instead of hope to, which hasn't happened for ages.

Offline RedMichelFerri

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2011, 06:59:49 am »
Our back four are as cool as cucumber with the ball. Love the way we just keep the possession of ball at back and in middle when we want to slow down the things and frustrate the opposition who are eager to get the ball after going down. The midfield and defense were pinging ball between them for fun and wasted few precious minutes and thus frustrating Villa near the end of second half.

     I thought Adam and Henderson played very well in midfield and thought Bellamy, Suarez, Downing and Shelvey were causing Villa all sort of problems up front. We never really got out of second gear but when we did, it was joy to watch us move the ball around with pace and precision. This season we sure have been wasteful in front of goal but I find it difficult to remember a game where we struggled to create chances (home and away / Poor or good opposition). Agree with people concerned about space left on occasion in middle which a better team will exploit but at the same time I think the approach/tactic will differ when we face tough opposition. Also Gerrard's return will boost our midfield to counter this area of game.

And on final note how great it is to know that you have 11 players on field (Reina included) who have technique to retain the ball under pressure and play it to next red shirt. All player seems to hate loosing the ball. This is what helping us dominate teams home and away and long may it continue.

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Offline Geppvindh's

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2011, 07:14:28 am »
We did that without breaking a sweat, didn't we? What I loved about this performance was the patience with which we operated. Adam and Henderson assumed the roles of recyclers, more than forceful midfielders, and got hold of the ball from the defense, looked for pockets between their midfield and back line and if they couldn't do so, passed back to the ever capable Skrtel and Agger who in turn recycled it out wide.

I particularly loved how Adam restrained himself to this role. Remember being the all action midfielder that he is, it would have been very difficult to ask him to do only the simple things, but he was wonderful with it.

Also to be noted was what someone had already pointed out about the centre backs moving far away from each other (a la Barca), almost as full backs, to accommodate a deep lying midfielder to recycle the short passes to the wings. This way, Enrique and Johnson pushed up, we had a back three of Agger Adam/Henderson Skrtel when we were trying to build from the back, with the full backs operating as wing backs.

On to Craig Bellamy. Bossed the game from start to finish. Started out on the left but he was everywhere. Pinging balls around, looking for through balls, crossing sharp and flat and getting into scoring positions. Fantastic display and looks every inch a part of this team.

Shelvey was cool and confident, and the most important job of his was to bridge the gap between the midfield and Suarez. Very often you'd find him get in between their defense and midfield and receive balls that he would later pass wide to Downing or Bellamy. Also his height was vital when he started knocking balls down the channel into the path of Suarez when Reina decided to go long.

Contrary to popular notion, I thought Downing was much much better than the comments suggest. Had some neat interplays with Suarez Henderson and Johnson and a good set piece on him. I like him and it is only a matter of time before we put away all those crosses he pumps in.

Suarez was quiet in the first half but boy he fucked them CBs in the second. Ran hard, led the line, passed around, dropped deep. Name it he did it. Did not have a goal to show for his efforts, which is quite unfortunate.

Overall a solid, effortless team performance, which was equally down to how precise we were as it was down to a hapless Villa performance.

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 07:33:29 am »
I was just overjoyed to see Liverpool put a very poor side to the sword.
Too many times we drop points against the bottom half dross.
Wigan and Blackburn next. Guarateed 6 points ? If so why are all the alarm bells going off in my head ?
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Offline BRdispatch05

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 07:56:27 am »
I assume this thread is for the more in depth analysis of the match, but just to confirm can anyone explain what the difference between this thread and the post match thread is?
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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 07:58:18 am »
I was just overjoyed to see Liverpool put a very poor side to the sword.
Too many times we drop points against the bottom half dross.
Wigan and Blackburn next. Guarateed 6 points ? If so why are all the alarm bells going off in my head ?

I think the alarm bells are going off because, despite getting us playing some lovely football again, this team have still not developed the ruthlessness they will need to make the next step.  Even in that easy win at Villa we should have put have humiliated them and been four goals up and cruising for the last 40 minutes.  It will come though.
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 08:32:13 am »
It was a comfortable performance. I wouldnt say we took our foot off the gas but i think we knew the game was won fairly early on.
Belamy was excellent, he reacted in the six yard box quickest and then delivered a great ball in for skrtel. Villa defended poor on both set pieces but we still had to put the ball in the net. They offered little going forward, the odd chance created from albrighton or nzogbia but they didnt really look like they knew how to break us down.
Have to echo the sentiments towards our centre back pairing, they complement each other well. Nine times out of 10 i feel like enrique is never going to be beat, when something does go over the top of him he has the strength and speed to hold off an opponent and he does it every single game, i cant remember too many fullbacks with the strength of a centre back but he has it.

Downing played well, one of his best performances in a red shirt, just recalling the ball to suarez which he hit from just inside the halfway line and he looked comfortable on the right, impressed with his work rate too.
Aside from the result being the most positive thing, jonjo shelvey made me feel excited about what is to come from him in the near future. He wasnt outstanding by any stretch but he wasnt out of place, at all. You'd think he was a first team regular he looked so comfortable, he was on the same wavelength as alot of the lads too which was encouraging. Now and then he broke ahead of suarez, got into the box, wasnt afraid to shoot or take a gamble.

Offline MNAA

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 11:25:11 am »
We played well, we dominated and should have won by more. There's not much wrong with the team. One year post Roy debacle, we now have better personnel on the whole and with better depth (though there are rooms for further upgrades). Apart from needing more luck to hit the net instead of the upright and the bar, we can do with the front six clicking and firing all cylinders. And as many had said here, that perhaps will come with time. Henderson, Adam and Downing are still settling in and we know that they can and will be better.

Without a doubt, the strength of team lies with Reina and our back four. I thought that Agger was one of our best, if not the best player at Villa Park. Whenever he made his offensive forays, his strides forward were so positive and threatening that he caused a lot of panic to Villa. His partnership with Skrtel is finally realising its potential.

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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2011, 11:27:05 am »
One thing I've noticed over the last half dozen games or so is that even when Andy Carroll plays or comes on as sub the team seems to maintain its passing and moving style and be able to accommodate his style and shortcomings far better than it was when the likes of myself were maintaining that he shouldn't be in the side until he has proved himself. Also Jordan Henderson is now infinitely more comfortable in the team even in his less favoured wide right role. The sort of high calibre passing and pressing overall team performances I felt we were only able to achieve with Kuyt, Bellamy and maxi in the side which I felt we couldn't achieve with Andy and Jordan in the team [based on their early season displays] now seem to have become the norm no matter which team selection Kenny goes for. Who'd have thought kenny knew better than me huh?  ;D

I also think Bellamy on the pitch is not only playing superbly but from his very first appearance at Brighton he has been acting almost like an on-pitch coach coaxing a deliberate first touch pass and receive rhythm to our play which has become infectious throughout the side. Love it.

 :)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 11:29:07 am by Timbo's Goals »

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2011, 11:51:16 am »
I assume this thread is for the more in depth analysis of the match, but just to confirm can anyone explain what the difference between this thread and the post match thread is?

You have identified the difference yourself :)

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2011, 12:03:51 pm »


I also think Bellamy on the pitch is not only playing superbly but from his very first appearance at Brighton he has been acting almost like an on-pitch coach coaxing a deliberate first touch pass and receive rhythm to our play which has become infectious throughout the side. Love it.

 :)

Bellamy after suarez is the first attcking player i would start most games with. He has been nothing short of brilliant when he has started.
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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2011, 12:26:43 pm »
Bellamy after suarez is the first attcking player i would start most games with. He has been nothing short of brilliant when he has started.

Agreed. And seemingly getting better and more influential on our play with each game. I love seeing kenny hugging him extra tight when he comes off the pitch   ;D

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2011, 12:55:38 pm »
Bellamy after suarez is the first attcking player i would start most games with. He has been nothing short of brilliant when he has started.

Even with his injury record?
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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2011, 12:57:43 pm »
Even with his injury record?

he seems fine to me this season. Obviously he needs looking after, but he makes a hell of a difference when starting.  Has he missed many games through injury this season? i thought he just was not picked?
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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2011, 01:40:28 pm »
One thing I've noticed over the last half dozen games or so is that even when Andy Carroll plays or comes on as sub the team seems to maintain its passing and moving style and be able to accommodate his style and shortcomings far better than it was when the likes of myself were maintaining that he shouldn't be in the side until he has proved himself. Also Jordan Henderson is now infinitely more comfortable in the team even in his less favoured wide right role. The sort of high calibre passing and pressing overall team performances I felt we were only able to achieve with Kuyt, Bellamy and maxi in the side which I felt we couldn't achieve with Andy and Jordan in the team [based on their early season displays] now seem to have become the norm no matter which team selection Kenny goes for. Who'd have thought kenny knew better than me huh?  ;D

I also think Bellamy on the pitch is not only playing superbly but from his very first appearance at Brighton he has been acting almost like an on-pitch coach coaxing a deliberate first touch pass and receive rhythm to our play which has become infectious throughout the side. Love it.

 :)

Would you say Bellamy has an Aquilani-like effect on the team, in how he demands and expects more from his teammates, and in return they get dragged up to another level? I'm not sure how he does it, as he's not a passing hub, nor does he incessantly run with the ball, but he does seem to get the team moving a bit better when he's on the field. Is it confidence to demand the ball and comfort when given it?
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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2011, 01:42:55 pm »
don't like McLeish and happy we beat them. Wasn't sure where Jamie was meant to play when he came on and disagreed that Bellamy the Terrier was man of the match: too many missed passes for me. Luis so unlucky not to score and Carroll at Christmas? Difficult for him to impress in a team that is comfortably ahead and not pressing but still doesn't shine out for me. Thoughts?

Carra was supposed to play as a deep holder, with Adam offest and forward to his left and Henderson even further up to his right.
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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2011, 01:59:21 pm »
Would you say Bellamy has an Aquilani-like effect on the team, in how he demands and expects more from his teammates, and in return they get dragged up to another level? I'm not sure how he does it, as he's not a passing hub, nor does he incessantly run with the ball, but he does seem to get the team moving a bit better when he's on the field. Is it confidence to demand the ball and comfort when given it?

Watching the Welsh team against England - without Bellamy I might add - it was clear they had been getting groomed intensively in a similar pass and move/receive style to the one Bellamy is showing with us whenever he plays. Not sure whether he's simply following kenny's instructions or it's a style Bellamy himself is implementing  [one that perhaps carries a Gary Speed hallmark] but whatever it is there's little doubt that from the very start of that Brighton game Bellamy was hellbent on us implementing it and I'm sure most if not all reds are very keen to see it continuing. 

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2011, 02:02:15 pm »
he seems fine to me this season. Obviously he needs looking after, but he makes a hell of a difference when starting.  Has he missed many games through injury this season? i thought he just was not picked?

I agree he's looked as fit as anyone in the Premier and never far away from being our best player whenever selected but it still could be kenny was nursing him through the early part of the season. He certainly looked super fit to me in that Brighton game but I guess we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2011, 02:31:33 pm »
For a 32 year old he don't half cover some ground! not many other 32 year olds have the pace and speed he does when running at players or tracking back for the ball. I'm glad we got him back, it seems like a great bit of business. I love his integrity and his passion, his fighting spirit is a good example to young players like henderson, shelvey and spearing. 

I think we controlled the match very well, passing very well, shame we couldn't have got 1 or 2 more goals, i think it was possible.
It may have been a different game had they had Bent and Agbonlahor but same could be said if we had gerrard and lucas.
I think downing could have gone at them more but maybe being his old club it was more of a psychological  thing.
Our defence had another solid game and the only real chances villa had were long shots that didn't trouble Pepe, we just didn't give them the space to get closer. Agger and Martin forming a good partnership, Agger being very good again bringing the ball out and that run he did, quality!!
I was very happy with the performance of Jonjo and believe he should start against Wigan, he looks like he has bulked up a bit and confidence is high from his spell at Blackpool - was unlucky not to score aswell.
Suarez was quiet in the first half maybe down the supply from midfield.  He was much better in second half but did look a bit unfit, maybe the fact he didn't train all week and being burdened by a stupid court case over nothing.
Overall happy with result - looking forward to continue our winning ways with the game against wigan!

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2011, 03:02:13 pm »
he seems fine to me this season. Obviously he needs looking after, but he makes a hell of a difference when starting.  Has he missed many games through injury this season? i thought he just was not picked?

Why do you think he's not picked?

He needs looking after - you could risk laying him twice in 4 days but it increases the risk that his injuries whether hamstring or knee will flare up

by some accounts he has an individual training routine because of an ongoing knee problem - of course that may might all be hokum  but it was allegedly the reason he fell out with Mancini- at 32 and with numerous injuries over his career he's bound to be carrying niggles and at 32 the recovery time from anything that does go wrong is likely to be greater - not sure you can mark him down as the second name of the team sheet in those circumstances


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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2011, 03:10:45 pm »
Why do you think he's not picked?

He needs looking after - you could risk laying him twice in 4 days but it increases the risk that his injuries whether hamstring or knee will flare up

by some accounts he has an individual training routine because of an ongoing knee problem - of course that may might all be hokum  but it was allegedly the reason he fell out with Mancini- at 32 and with numerous injuries over his career he's bound to be carrying niggles and at 32 the recovery time from anything that does go wrong is likely to be greater - not sure you can mark him down as the second name of the team sheet in those circumstances




we do it with agger, gerrard. i see no difference. He can play a game every 7 days, thats enough to be a regular and in my eyes should start when fit over all our widemen/strikers bar Suarez.
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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2011, 04:08:15 pm »
I assume this thread is for the more in depth analysis of the match, but just to confirm can anyone explain what the difference between this thread and the post match thread is?

The post match thread usually is full of part analysis and full emotion, and often 37 pages of kneejerking reactions to sacking Lucas and arresting Glen Johnson etc with a few people then arguing with each other and usually getting banned for it.
See the relevant one for this match over a debate about nothing on pages 3-8.

So we decided to let that one exist for 24 hours following the game and meanwhile start up a better discussion; or in the case of not so better discussion, at least after a day, our temper's and joy would've calmed enough to rationally chat about the match.
Yep.

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Re: round table Aston Villa 0-2 Liverpool.
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2011, 04:15:45 pm »
we do it with agger, gerrard. i see no difference. He can play a game every 7 days, thats enough to be a regular and in my eyes should start when fit over all our widemen/strikers bar Suarez.

er we've tried it with agger I think (touch wood), this is his longest run of games for some time and even then he's missed out in the Carling Cup

gerrard is more 'theoretical' I guess?

plus we dont play every 7 days - we are just about to play 5 in 16 days - by your count he'd play regularly in two of them?

Its about preventing him getting injured rather than anything else and was the main cause of complaint in the Chelsea game - playing so quickly one game afterr another greatly increased the risk that something like what happened to Lucas would happen. Kenny has to manage the squad through the season and recognise how best to use them. If that means Bellamy misses out on Wigan and plays against Blackburn and stays fit thats fine with me.


« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 04:19:47 pm by Vulmea »
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