Author Topic: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm  (Read 31335 times)

Offline archie

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Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« on: December 31, 2012, 08:35:20 pm »
Sunderland - a team that sticks out in my mind as they were our opponents in the 92 cup final.

As a 12 year old really getting into football that game really mattered. I suppose when the team wins trophies and you are really young you don't sometimes realise the magnitude of the achievement. So this was a game I really remember being properly nervous about (something that has continued to the current day).

Sunderland were a second division team at the time and I remember that John Byrne had scored in every round. Thankfully, this was something he couldn't manage in the final. Anyway, quick bit of McManaman/Thomas magic andwe were on our way. All was well and next year we would win the league.

Sunderland was also my first ever away game 10 years ago. A 1-2 reverse and perhaps the coldest I've ever been at a football match. So, I suppose I should have a healthy hate for SUnderland as a result of this but it never transpired. I found their fans on that day to be sound and a good day's drinking was had.

Recent history has seen the club have some highs and lows in the premier league.
The new millennium saw them promoted and finish in the top half for a couple of seasons thanks to a decent squad of players helped in no small part by the partnership of Niall Quinn and Kevin Phillips.

Relegations and promotions have occurred and a low point was their tally of 15 points in a season.

Recent managerial appointments have been come from a list (which is infinitely long) of RAWK's most hated.
Roy Keane and Steve Bruce dared to play for some old friends up the road.

But, current owner Ellis short has surpassed himself and incurred the wrath of those who frequent General football and sport forum by bringing in an old friend, Martin O'Neill.
amongst his list of crimes are:

Celebrating goals
Trying to hold on to his best players.

Beyond the pale, I'm sure we all agree.

In 20 games against Liverpool he has only lost 5. A decent record.

Sunderland haven't been having a good season, but recent results have seen a little bit of the pressure come off. So, it will be interesting to see how they, and indeed how we approach this game.


Jordan Henderson will face his former club (if he plays) and there have been a few notable players to line up for both teams:


Djibril Cisse
Barry Venison
Don Hutchison
Howard Gayle
Alan Kennedy
Phil Babb
Boudewijn Zenden

and an honourable mention to David Hodgson. (I'd never heard of him)


Both teams need to find some form and Liverpool will be glad to see the back of 2012 (league wise)
Let's hope the most arrogant manager in the business isn't hopping on his imaginary pogo stick come 2013. Not sure it would go down well.
« Last Edit: January 1, 2013, 11:16:43 am by The 5th Benitle »

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 08:56:34 pm »
Muchas gracias Sir!

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 11:58:17 pm »
Phil Dowd is referee ... we won't win.

Offline 5ive Times

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #3 on: January 1, 2013, 01:56:44 am »
New year reso: I am going to stop blaming refs for our failings.

But Dowd doesn't fill me with confidence.
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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #4 on: January 1, 2013, 02:01:32 am »
Don't forget Paul Stewart - voted worst player ever by both sets of fans too for extra brownie points.

Offline OLDIE

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #5 on: January 1, 2013, 02:07:31 am »
Don't forget Paul Stewart - voted worst player ever by both sets of fans too for extra brownie points.

But sir a truely forgetable player if there was ever one

Offline ConqueredAllOfEurope

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #6 on: January 1, 2013, 03:51:30 am »
So according to recent form, we are going to lose this one right?  :P

But seriously, with Enrique out I guess that means Downing at left back or Wisdom at right black with Glen moving to left back. I think Downing has been playing well recently so I wouldn't mind Wisdom coming in and keeping Downing on the right. Also hope Henderson starts this game, I think he deserves it, especially whilst playing when he was sick the night before. Sterling didn't have the best game against QPR but hopefully he will make up for that against Sunderland.

Not going to bother predicting the scoreline but I hope Gerrard and Suarez carry on with their good form.
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Offline The loo beast

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #7 on: January 1, 2013, 04:11:39 am »
Just hoping shelvey doesn't start his one. I think Henderson is a far better footballer. We look poor when shelvey is playing lately.

What's up with Sahin? Injured? Is he really deemed inferior to jonjo shelvey? What a fall from grace.

Offline arcticus

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #8 on: January 1, 2013, 04:33:28 am »
Please don't lose  :'(

Offline PaLee

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #9 on: January 1, 2013, 05:47:20 am »
So according to recent form, we are going to lose this one right?  :P


Yup. We need to reverse the trend now. Come on Libpool..

Offline bravoco

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #10 on: January 1, 2013, 07:26:14 am »
But, current owner Ellis short has surpassed himself and incurred the wrath of those who frequent General football and sport forum by bringing in an old friend, Martin O'Neil.
amongst his list of crimes are:
Celebrating goals
Trying to hold on to his best players.

Beyond the pale, I'm sure we all agree.

Nice post. And I agree that O'Neill seems to get a lot of stick on here for not having done particularly much wrong. As for arrogance, surely 'Big' Sam or Ferguson have that award wrapped up.  What have I missed?

Offline john_mac

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #11 on: January 1, 2013, 07:35:33 am »
Nice post. And I agree that O'Neill seems to get a lot of stick on here for not having done particularly much wrong. As for arrogance, surely 'Big' Sam or Ferguson have that award wrapped up.  What have I missed?

Horrible little twat of a player at Cough's Forest, who some will remember being our biggest rivals at the time.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #12 on: January 1, 2013, 07:41:18 am »
Numerous questions will be present in this game on Wednesday. Which Liverpool will turn up? What personnel changes will be made? Who will cover for Enrique? Will we play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1? Will we even go 3 at the back again? If Sunderland sit deep, will we score or will we dominate but concede? It’ll be a tough game, for a number of reasons – the opposition, the timing of the game, injuries, players sold, form, etc. The biggest danger is that it becomes another Villa game – weaker opposition on paper that defends stoutly and hits us on the break against the run of play. Or it could be another Fulham/QPR – players who are not playing to their potential who concede one goal early and collapse for the rest of the game. There are no easy predictions. What we might be able to guess, though, is how the game will go.

Sunderland’s system –


Sunderland are a traditional O’Neill team. Where once O’Neill was actually an innovative systems manager to a small extent (his 3-5-2 with Celtic, with Didier Agathe and Alan Thompson on each wing, was as fluid an attacking system as any around), these days he basically plays a more or less “British” game – flat back four, 4 or 5 in midfield, 1 or 2 up front, usually stacked in a “1-1” set-up. This Sunderland team plays deep, hits on the break, usually through the wings, with crosses as the main delivery of the final ball. They are fairly balanced defensively, although they can get pulled to one side against teams that are strong on one side of the field. If Suarez fancies a side to play from against Sunderland, expect a lot of space to be created on the opposite side. Without Enrique though, the chances to score from a back post run are reduced, and we might well be relying on a piece of magic and/or a set-piece goal to get something on the board.

Their system plays fairly deep in the defensive third, and as we know, this can create problems for our finishing. The two central defenders, likely Cuellar and Bramble, will sit tight, central and create defensive depth. Colback in front of them will patrol the space ahead of the back four, with Larsson possibly doing double duties as a defensive mid getting forward, although they might try to plug the middle of the field by restricting these two players to defence-only tasks. There might be little space to play in between the lines, which might force Suarez wider, leaving us with no real central runs, unless Gerrard (if he plays) makes some penetrating movements as a 3rd attacker. On the other hand, Colback can go wandering sometimes, and the Sunderland back two might actually be exposed if they don’t show tactical discipline. For this reason, we might see Larsson restrained in his positional tasks, which on one hand will make the main area condensed (especially Zone 14) – on the other hand, it will detract from their attacking transitions and make their attacks predictable. We will probably see the same tactics employed by Villa and Stoke, with the entry pass being a direct ball through the central channel to two forwards on the counter. Without beating the Back Three drum, this is a game where at the very least we might have to show a bit more central defensive tightness; alternatively, we can try to cut the long ball off at source, and play Henderson in midfield with the job of pressing high, meaning Gerrard and Lucas in defensive midfield. This seems unlikely, but if Rodgers is learning as he goes, he’ll know that there are certain midfield combinations that don’t work against certain opposition, and this game is one game which should be looked at from this point of view.




Liverpool’s System –


In all likelihood, the system will be the same as against QPR – 4-3-3 to start with, and the only big changes being who comes in for Enrique. Common sense says Wisdom on the right and Johnson shifting to the left. Downing can be relied upon to back Wisdom up, and Sterling is not afraid to put the miles in tracking back. Down the flanks we should be covered well. It is important though, that Downing stay on the right, as he is playing well, but more importantly, he is seeing the kinds of runs Suarez makes and is delivering the ball to him in areas that Suarez likes to move into. The second goal against QPR is a fine example of Downing realizing where Suarez will make a run, and playing a perfectly weighted pass into his path before moving off the pass to support. Getting anyone on the same wavelength as Suarez is always a good thing. We might see a Joe Cole appearance if there’s a shop window factor, but the front three should pick itself – Sterling, Suarez, Downing – and the back four should be relatively predictable depending on the replacement for Enrique. Central midfield is harder to call though, as Henderson should start, if he’s feeling well enough, although there might be a case for resting Lucas. There is a physical case for resting Gerrard, but he is playing very well the last few games and it would be smart to keep him involved for that fact alone. He seems to be choosing the frequency of his explosive runs into the box, which is the main concern with a player of his power. As long as he doesn’t overdo the attacking sprints, he should be good to play at least 60 minutes in a more conservative midfield position.

It is important that whoever plays the holding midfield role drops very conservatively into the space between the back two when Sunderland win the ball. Fletcher and Sessegnon can to a lot of damage if given space, much like Benteke and Weimann for Villa, with maybe not as much physical power (although Fletcher is no slouch). Sunderland are not prolific shot-takers, though, and average 4 shots on target per game. If we can keep them to below that amount, we should be looking at a clean sheet again. If we let them get higher than their average, though, we might be seeing a repeat of Villa and Stoke, and this would be bad for morale all-round, as the chances are that the shots will come from the same types of play that we’ve been vulnerable to against teams similar to Sunderland. Thankfully, though, we have a good record at home in general (4-3-3), although not brilliant by any means. We are strong enough at home though, to be confident of a solid win against Sunderland, but a lot will depend on how we play the game out – do we adjust to Sunderland’s strengths, or do we play to our own and hope our weaknesses don’t catch up with us? Sunderland, though, have only won 2 away games all season, so the signs are positive for a good result for us.




Set-Pieces –


Set-pieces will be an important aspect of this game. Surprisingly, we are doing quite well on corners this season. We’ve scored 8 goals from set-pieces this season, which is a healthy return in 20 games. Conversely, Sunderland are surprisingly weak at defending set-pieces, particularly for a Martin O’Neill team. It will be important for us to maximize our corners, and get a little bit of variety and a lot of good services in, especially to Skrtel and Agger on corner kicks. Defensively, it would be wise to make and tactical fouls on Sunderland players as close to the halfway line as possible, as McClean is a real danger from direct free kicks, and if Reina doesn’t set the wall properly, or isn’t on his game, this might be Sunderland’s best chance of getting a goal on the board. Overall, if we can work a good early spell of pressure and score from it, and then sustain the pressure and add to the score, the game should go like QPR and Fulham. Sunderland will probably get dragged towards the relegation spots after Christmas, and they are definitely a team we should be looking to beat rather than just compete against. There are a few factors to take into consideration (Enrique replacement, how we cope with that, and structure of the midfield), but all in all, this is a game we should look to be winning, with a tight scoreline (2-0 or 2-1). It could be more, but Villa blip aside, it is unlikely to be a loss.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #13 on: January 1, 2013, 07:49:28 am »
archie! Happy New Year to you mate. Thanks for this, great stuff.
 
You knew though that someone was gonna pick you up on the O'Neill bit. So I'll bite on it. Strange one for me because he was a friend of my Dad, who always spoke highly of him and turfed me out of my bedroom so MON could sleep in it ;D However there's more to the dislike by us -well me anyway- than your deliberately very short list ;D
 
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Acted the twat over the Barry transfer. I know GB is no world beater but in Sliding Doors style, I'd be fascinated to see how he'd have done -very well I reckon. Fine, Martin wanted to keep him, I understand that, but he went over the top slagging us off, in my humble opinion.
As an afficionado of Scottish football, which I know you are, was he good at Celtic or just there at the right time? Genuine question.
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As for the game, we've been winning then losing. Wednesday is the day the pattern changes and we start our climb. But I will repeat what I said in the last round table, I can't understand for the life of me why Gerrard and Suarez played 90 minutes on Sunday. Hope that doesn't hurt us.
 
 
 

Offline Baz Smythe

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #14 on: January 1, 2013, 07:57:41 am »
Think on form we should start with same midfield as we did against QPR. Allen, Hendo and Gerrard looked solid and I'd like to see that consistency in the centre.

Sunderland are also incredibly inconsistent, one day they can look half decent the next look terrible. I can hazard a pretty good guess which one will turn up against us, but hopefully the signing of Sturridge and rumours of Gameiro etc could give rest of the squad a boost and push them to work harder.
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Offline ArchieC

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #15 on: January 1, 2013, 08:57:06 am »
I think there might be  a couple players rotated for this game being only 2 days rest in between.  Lucas will prob start this game and i'd imagine suso might also
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Offline RogerTheRed

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #16 on: January 1, 2013, 11:13:22 am »
Come on Redmen!
Driving up in a bit to watch this tomorrow. Hope to see Sturridge debut.
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Offline hoppyLFC

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #17 on: January 1, 2013, 11:14:36 am »
Ipredict a nice 3 - 1 win........ :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf :scarf
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Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #18 on: January 1, 2013, 11:29:37 am »
Are we expecting BR back for this one?

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland
« Reply #19 on: January 1, 2013, 11:31:15 am »
Any news on Enrique's fitness?

My lineup would read:

                            Reina

Johnson     Skrtel       Agger       Enrique

                  Lucas                Allen

                             Gerrard

        Downing        Suarez         Suso

Pretty confident we will win this game by two goals - so I say 2-0 or 3-1. Suarez will get on the score sheet.

Offline Armand9

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #20 on: January 1, 2013, 11:32:38 am »
Thought I heard Enrique's hamstring was a tear, if so no chance of seeing him for a few weeks. I suspect Downing will play at LB
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Offline Jeffe

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #21 on: January 1, 2013, 11:53:40 am »
Yeah, I don't think we're going to see Enrique until February.

Hopefully Wisdom gets a game, Downing vs A. Johnson could be a disaster for us. Johnson on the left and Wisdom on the right and we should be fine defensively.

Reina; Wisdom, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger; Lucas, Allen, Stevie; Downing, Suarez, Suso

Offline jaffod

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #22 on: January 1, 2013, 12:07:58 pm »
Lack of options dictate that Johnson will have to move over to LB although I wouldn't be averse to seeing Jack Robinson given a run out - just can't see it happening. Wisdom in at RB.
 Don't want to see both Lucas and Allen on the pitch as it stifles our goal-scoring threat, would prefer Henderson to Allen at this time although he's hardly prolific himself. Just feel Henderson is more likely to get further up the pitch than Allen.
 Downing deserves to keep his place but my main concern is Sterling who has been pretty poor lately, again lack of options probably mean he will play again.
 Don't know about the Sturridge situation but if he does sign it would be nice to see him get half an hour.

                                                              Reina
 
Wisdom                          Skrtel                         Agger                Johnson

                                                        Lucas

                                 Henderson               
                                                   
                                                                   Gerrard

             Downing                                                              Sterling

                                              Suarez

It'll either be another frustrating 1-1 or we'll nick it 2-1.



   

Offline LondonRedMan

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #23 on: January 1, 2013, 12:13:09 pm »
I think we need to realise that this match could be doubly difficult as our preparation must have been severely hampered with the manager and assistant manager unable to have direct interaction with the players recently.

Folks don't get your hopes up for this one. Weve lost Enrique and just had an away game in London. Lots of travel. MON has always set teams up against LFC that are tough to beat.

Offline El_Pistolero

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #24 on: January 1, 2013, 12:18:04 pm »
That's a great post (again), Phase. Enjoyed reading that.


Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #25 on: January 1, 2013, 12:36:21 pm »
Fantastic post again phaseofplay. If Rawk had a follow function, you'd be top of my list.  :wave
« Last Edit: January 1, 2013, 12:42:58 pm by Geese-a-layin' Kopite »
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Offline Jeffe

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #26 on: January 1, 2013, 12:39:27 pm »
I think we need to realise that this match could be doubly difficult as our preparation must have been severely hampered with the manager and assistant manager unable to have direct interaction with the players recently.

I don't think so. We have a lot of staff and I'm sure Rodgers will have given them clear instructions on what to tell the players if he hasn't been able to do it himself.

Offline peachybum

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #27 on: January 1, 2013, 12:41:57 pm »
I would really like to see Wisdom back at right back and Johnson moved to left back. Not only would G.Johnson be better defending A.Johnson cutting inside on his left but i think Sterlings best form this season was on the left with Johnson behind him.
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Offline LucasLeiva

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #28 on: January 1, 2013, 12:43:49 pm »
Same line up as the QPR game for this apart from Enrique, I would like to see Wisdom play RB and Glen LB because Downing has looked good lately and seems to be playing better than Sterling or any of our other wingers so unfair to move someone in form. Henderson fought for his place like more of our players should and it makes me so proud to have a player like that, as much as some may dislike him. He's also very good at keeping the ball in tight situations, a vital aspect of linking up with Luis Suarez who is always boxed in.

Offline fatlip13

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #29 on: January 1, 2013, 01:09:24 pm »
the personnel does not matter as much as the attitude taken into the match. we seem to struggle against teams that get tackles in, if we don't get tackled or play fast enough to stop them then we look very good. our team plan falls apart if we get pressured high up the pitch.

Offline Chirpy Red

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #30 on: January 1, 2013, 01:32:03 pm »
My question is who comes in for Assaidi and Cole if he's off to QPR? Who is going to be on the bench? I don't want us to fill the bench with defenders like Flanagan,Carra,Coates,Robinson and have very little attacking options. Do we finally put Morgan or Yesil on the bench? What about Ibe?

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #31 on: January 1, 2013, 01:32:57 pm »
Any updates on the sickness issue in the squad?
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Offline TheReturnof7heKing

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #32 on: January 1, 2013, 02:48:15 pm »
Bloody love reading phasofplay's posts, thank you sir!
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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #33 on: January 1, 2013, 03:10:15 pm »
I can't remember most of our games against Sunderland. The only one that sticks in my head from recent times is 2002 when we absolutely battered, I mean, battered them from start to finish. Must've had about 10-15 really good chances, Markus Babbel made his first start back from illness and we just couldn't score. Jurgen Macho was like their 10th choice keeper but kept everything out. We'd lost to Boro the week before, drew with Basel midweek and got knocked out of the CL and these bastards managed by Howard fucking Wilkinson took a point off us. Houllier had got mardy with Gerrard as well I remember and dropped him.

Then didn't the twats beat us at their place? That's probably the 1-2 you're thinking off. 3 games they won all season and they managed to take 4 points from us. Makes me nauseous thinking about it.
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Offline John C

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #34 on: January 1, 2013, 03:22:00 pm »
Set-pieces will be an important aspect of this game. Surprisingly, we are doing quite well on corners this season. We’ve scored 8 goals from set-pieces this season, which is a healthy return in 20 games. Conversely, Sunderland are surprisingly weak at defending set-pieces, particularly for a Martin O’Neill team. It will be important for us to maximize our corners, and get a little bit of variety and a lot of good services in, especially to Skrtel and Agger on corner kicks.
You're a superb poster mate. Re our corners compared to last season, for some reason there was a focus on Carroll using Skrtel as a barrier, this was far from successful with Andy rarely meeting the ball and rendering Skrtel useless in the box. This season he's proved to be more effective with freedom.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #35 on: January 1, 2013, 03:28:36 pm »
Any win is a good win.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #36 on: January 1, 2013, 03:36:21 pm »
Sunderland have been improving in recent weeks. They beat City at the Stadium of Light and have got three points against Reading and Southampton. They are still reliant on Fletcher though. Stop Fletcher and you have a good chance of getting something out of this. If he is fit, Henderson deserves a start in this one.

Offline Benimar Col

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #37 on: January 1, 2013, 03:46:57 pm »
I can't believe confidence will be a problem, the QPR win was rather easy against a poor side, this should be a sterner test as the bus will no doubt be parked by O'Neill

Offline Bruce88

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #38 on: January 1, 2013, 04:44:16 pm »
We've got some tough away games in january and february so we better win this one. Let's start the new year how we ended the last one, with 3 points. 2-1 LFC.

Offline Lothairio

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Re: Preview - Liverpool v Sunderland, 2nd Jan 7.45pm
« Reply #39 on: January 1, 2013, 04:44:27 pm »
Wonder which Liverpool will turn up for this game?  :-\
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