Topic: Round Table Real Madrid 1-0 Liverpool CL Group Stage.

[Gnurglan]

Who here was shocked by Rodger's team sheet?
My question arises after comments of Platini, Mourinho, and Lineker.

Especially the Platini-comment.

How does everybody feel about this?

For me, I am mad Platini would use *me* *us* to criticize Brendan.
I thought "hmm, no stevie?" apart from that, Lovren Johnson Hendo and Balo being dropped was no shocker for me. And even dropping the captain wasn't a problem, at all, for me.
Brendan has my full support, he could have played a youngster for all I care.

I'm sure some will be pissed about the teamsheet, some (as me) will not care - gaffer knows best.

I'm interested in what the majority of my fellow fans think about this.

Yesterday at the pub, I heard a lot on this as well. Non-Liverpool fans were shocked, I'm not. Where's the problem?

Rodgers has my full support too. I even wanted us to tighten up our CM, before the game, before it became a topic.

They're trying their best to create a story. I have no complaints at all with our team selection. Why? Because our so called best team was poor vs Newcastle and we've generally been poor all season. If people think the best a manager can do then, is to keep playing the same players, then when can you expect to change? We've had every indication possible that show us we should change. So we did. And we put in a better team performance than we have for a while. Away to possibly the best team in the sport. If there's a story in this, then it's us adapting and our "backup players" sending a message to the first team players. Message being if they don't perform, they won't be first team regulars for much longer.

[Gnurglan]

At the risk of the proverbial pissing on chips here but one game does not a defence make.  We played a structured and tight game designed to combat the way Madrid play.  And it worked generally with the obvious exception of the goal, and without us managing to create much at the other end.  And I thought the defence were superb at stopping Madrid.  However Madrid like to play through teams via short incisive passes or through pace via Ronaldo/Bale.  What they tend not to do is rely on set pieces and crosses into the box.  This has been the achilles heel in our defence this season.  And also Madrid were basically in the comfort zone all game as a result of their standing in the group.  They could probably have gone up a gear if needed had we scored.

Having said all that I'd play the same defence against Chelsea simply on merit after Tues. 

Yes, they might have been able to go up a gear. The same was true at Anfield, but the difference was they picked us apart there. In this game, we stayed in it and they had to stay alert. It was only a goal. At Anfield they didn't have to worry. There they had a three goal buffer. Had we scored at Bernabeu, I think they could have become a bit anxious as it was more difficult for them to find openings than it was at Anfield.

What we saw in Madrid, was us realising both our own and Real's strengths/weaknesses. At Anfield, I thought we tried to play them more like equals. It appeared better, but they were stronger in all parts of the game and it showed. They coasted to victory. The approach this week was more clever. We all prefer if we play great football all the time, but if we're realistic, we'll have periods during the season and during games where we will need to rely on something else but beautiful football. There will be times when we'll have to battle. For me that doesn't indicate that we're simply a side lacking in quality, as some would have it. It's also signs of awareness and being able to adapt.

We've relied to heavily on our attack, it's easy to forget we've had so many complaints about our defensive weaknesses in the last year. If we keep that in mind, I reckon we'd be wiser to think of what we did well here. We know we can play well in attack, that we can make it work. Rodgers said last season that it was easy to play defensive football. I think it was after the Chelsea game. In Madrid, I think he showed he had a point with that statement. We too can play a defensive style. It's not our preference, but we can do it.

[wah00ey]

Arguably that was the best result of any of the English teams in the CL this week - bizarrely in that we lost!

How anyone can be arguing against Rodgers' team selection is beyond me, it's a non-story being whipped up into a storm.  It's not as if we've been in good form all season, it's not even as if we came into the game off the back of a good result / performance so he had to make changes and some of those who didn't start didn't deserve to start.

I watched Kolo in the Fulham away last season and he looked petrified.  The Kolo we saw on Wednesday was a completely different beast and on that form, he deserves a start against the plastics on Saturday.

[has gone odd]

its was a strange game for me, I wasn't feeling up for it, odd considering its easily one of the highlights of our calendar. this if ofc due to the performance of our team so far this season, had we been on form id have been jumping around like a Mexican bean but still.

the team selection didn't bother me one iota, in fact I was pleased to see such a shakeup as it clearly needed one.  but here lies 2  sides of a coin which will likely divide opinion. defensively we looked quite solid, especially as Marcello was clearly up for the game and tried to cause as much grief as he could. kolo looked like he wanted to prove a point after some performance dip last year and he didn't let himself or the club down, really dug in a looked hungry. migs looked to have gained some confidence from somewhere, cant complain at all with him either. in fact everyone who started looked composed and had some kind of desire, it was nice to see.

so with a solid looking defence and some nifty play in the middle, we would hope the attack would have some teeth and cause more problems. it really didn't though and this is where any criticism can lie. we have, for the best part of the entire season, looked utterly bereft of idea up front. its not just the opposition that prevented us, I think Madrid were quite average by their standards, but I just don't think we can find the link between midfield and attack at present. it's not just this game but future games to that worry me. we cant even create a half decent chance and I think if we had played Madrid last year we would have mopped them up!

to summarise, disappointing result, improved defence that I hope continues to improve and same old problem up front. the result left me with more hope than despair though and that's gotta be a good thing.

for Chelsea I would start with the same 11 as Madrid, I think they all deserve it.

[gandalf50]

Oh yeah, forgot about this - didn't he select a weakened team against us in April? Just because they got some luck and snatched victory doesn't make the approach any different. It was just a case than none of the Real defenders made mistakes like we did that day. Sorry, I forgot, Jose Mourinho is the biggest hypocritical c*nt in the world.

We hardly bothered Newcastle or Hull, did you think that would magically change against a Real side bang in form?

If he said that it`s because he is trying to influence BRs team selection, through media pressure, on Saturday.

[TSC]

its was a strange game for me, I wasn't feeling up for it, odd considering its easily one of the highlights of our calendar. this if ofc due to the performance of our team so far this season, had we been on form id have been jumping around like a Mexican bean but still.

the team selection didn't bother me one iota, in fact I was pleased to see such a shakeup as it clearly needed one.  but here lies 2  sides of a coin which will likely divide opinion. defensively we looked quite solid, especially as Marcello was clearly up for the game and tried to cause as much grief as he could. kolo looked like he wanted to prove a point after some performance dip last year and he didn't let himself or the club down, really dug in a looked hungry. migs looked to have gained some confidence from somewhere, cant complain at all with him either. in fact everyone who started looked composed and had some kind of desire, it was nice to see.

so with a solid looking defence and some nifty play in the middle, we would hope the attack would have some teeth and cause more problems. it really didn't though and this is where any criticism can lie. we have, for the best part of the entire season, looked utterly bereft of idea up front. its not just the opposition that prevented us, I think Madrid were quite average by their standards, but I just don't think we can find the link between midfield and attack at present. it's not just this game but future games to that worry me. we cant even create a half decent chance and I think if we had played Madrid last year we would have mopped them up!

to summarise, disappointing result, improved defence that I hope continues to improve and same old problem up front. the result left me with more hope than despair though and that's gotta be a good thing.

for Chelsea I would start with the same 11 as Madrid, I think they all deserve it.

Problem we have is we have no-one of quality who will make runs and pull defenders out of position up front.  Borini gave us the runs but lacked the quality, whereas Balotelli probably has the quality but is generally static without the ball, or certainly won't make runs right across the line.  What we need is a cross between Balotelli and Borini - and not one with Borini's ability and Balotelli's movement/pace!  Sturridge probably provides this but we need another obviously.

[steveeastend]

Problem we have is we have no-one of quality who will make runs and pull defenders out of position up front.  Borini gave us the runs but lacked the quality, whereas Balotelli probably has the quality but is generally static without the ball, or certainly won't make runs right across the line.  What we need is a cross between Balotelli and Borini - and not one with Borini's ability and Balotelli's movement/pace!  Sturridge probably provides this but we need another obviously.

Well no, we would only need this sort of player when playing those long balls and constant direct football with Gerrard as the main man in the center. Without Gerrard, we are way more flexible in our passing and overall play and a combination of Borini and Balotelli would work totally fine.

Besides that, we have this sort of player already in the squad, Sterling, who has been run into the ground because of having no flexibility in our play so far this season.

[the_red_pill]

If he said that it`s because he is trying to influence BRs team selection, through media pressure, on Saturday.

He did say it yes. Clearly an attempt at influencing it. Just like Pardieu did last weekend. Said he knows very well what team we're going to put out and that we always do this and do that.

Shitcoat's trying a Pardew..
They might be "friends", but one friend couldn't a fuck if another is ankles deep in media pressure. He just heaps on more and turn the media against the other. Fuck me!
Let's do the talking on the pitch though. If Chelsea were to lose on Saturday, Mourinho would be absolutely enraged. I'd like to see him lose his marbles on the touchline and do something utterly insane. A win would get massive covergae, considering our position, but yeah- getting ahead of myself here.

[redmark]

Well no, we would only need this sort of player when playing those long balls and constant direct football with Gerrard as the main man in the center. Without Gerrard, we are way more flexible in our passing and overall play and a combination of Borini and Balotelli would work totally fine.

Besides that, we have this sort of player already in the squad, Sterling, who has been run into the ground because of having no flexibility in our play so far this season.

No, the players who've struggled most with the lack of movement ahead of them are Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana, not Gerrard. It's not about the length of the pass, it's about the space the recipient can make for one, almost forcing the passer to make it. Balotelli doesn't show for a pass into space, he wants it to feet or chest with his back to goal.

With Sturridge or similar, we would have far more variety and threat in our attacking play, to the extent that Gerrard wouldn't need to be making as many diagonals to Sterling or the fullbacks, who have consistently been the only players to attack space.

[steveeastend]

No, the players who've struggled most with the lack of movement ahead of them are Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana, not Gerrard. It's not about the length of the pass, it's about the space the recipient can make for one, almost forcing the passer to make it. Balotelli doesn't show for a pass into space, he wants it to feet or chest with his back to goal.

With Sturridge or similar, we would have far more variety and threat in our attacking play, to the extent that Gerrard wouldn't need to be making as many diagonals to Sterling or the fullbacks, who have consistently been the only players to attack space.

You totally ignoring the consequence of such long balls on what this stlye of football aks for the players in terms of intensity. For a long ball, the entire team has to be strechted all over the pitch, which makes it almost impossible to bring enough players upfront for making use of those long direct balls unless there are two/three top strikers upfront who can run the show on their own. The things is though that none of the current top teams who would offer this sort of quality upfront play that way so there is good reason to think that this sort of football isn't possible when playing two times a week because of the demandings for the entire team in terms of moving up and down the pitch.

Sturridge on his own, even together with Sterling won't make any difference here.

[redmark]

You totally ignoring the consequence of such long balls on what this stlye of football aks for the players in terms of intensity. For a long ball, the entire team has to be strechted all over the pitch, which makes it almost impossible to bring enough players upfront for making use of those long direct balls unless there are two/three top strikers upfront who can run the show on their own. The things is though that none of the current top teams who would offer this sort of quality upfront play that way so there is good reason to think that this sort of football isn't possible when playing two times a week because of the demandings for the entire team in terms of moving up and down the pitch.

Sturridge on his own, even together with Sterling won't make any difference here.

You're totally mistaking the point.

Short pass and move football requires quick, intelligent movement up front, even more than a long pass does. Coutinho and Sterling need the movement of a striker, to create angles for a pass, or to drag defenders out of shape to create space for themselves to run at the defence. The team - and our creative players - have not become more incisive in the absence of a handful of long passes per game. Why? Because we've still lacked the sort of intelligent movement we get from Sturridge.

I'm not arguing here for the inclusion of Gerrard, I'm arguing the need for a Sturridge over a Balotelli. If Coutinho is to be a modern 'Dalglish', he needs a rush to thread through balls to.

I've never advocated long ball football in my life, and am not starting now. A long pass is a different matter, just as it was when Souness made them, in a system that was primarily pass and move.

[wemmick]

You're totally mistaking the point.

Short pass and move football requires quick, intelligent movement up front, even more than a long pass does. Coutinho and Sterling need the movement of a striker, to create angles for a pass, or to drag defenders out of shape to create space for themselves to run at the defence. The team - and our creative players - have not become more incisive in the absence of a handful of long passes per game. Why? Because we've still lacked the sort of intelligent movement we get from Sturridge.

I'm not arguing here for the inclusion of Gerrard, I'm arguing the need for a Sturridge over a Balotelli. If Coutinho is to be a modern 'Dalglish', he needs a rush to thread through balls to.

I've never advocated long ball football in my life, and am not starting now. A long pass is a different matter, just as it was when Souness made them, in a system that was primarily pass and move.

I see what you are saying remark, but one of the problems we have at the moment is how poorly the midfield and wingers play in the final third when the Balotelli opens up space by dropping deep or moving to the wing, which is also something Sturridge does very well. I reckon we would have the exact same problems with Sturridge if he didn't have Balotelli to move into the space upfront (though his finishing is certainly better than Balo's so we might score more). The two strikers compliment each other well in this way, and the Spurs match was eye opening in this respect. My argument is that Sterling isn't yet so mature that he fills open space consistently well, nor is Coutinho, and only sometimes are Henderson, Allen and Lallana. Borini does it alright, but not enough to be a constant goal threat against top opposition. Balotelli doesn't run for through balls, as you would like to see, but he opens up plenty of space for others to do so and absolutely no-one fills it. So, in that sense, I'm inverting your argument. Sterling and Coutinho need to move more intelligently for Balotelli to be less static. Otherwise, we have no attacking presence through the middle of the pitch.

[Draex]

You're totally mistaking the point.

Short pass and move football requires quick, intelligent movement up front, even more than a long pass does. Coutinho and Sterling need the movement of a striker, to create angles for a pass, or to drag defenders out of shape to create space for themselves to run at the defence. The team - and our creative players - have not become more incisive in the absence of a handful of long passes per game. Why? Because we've still lacked the sort of intelligent movement we get from Sturridge.

I'm not arguing here for the inclusion of Gerrard, I'm arguing the need for a Sturridge over a Balotelli. If Coutinho is to be a modern 'Dalglish', he needs a rush to thread through balls to.

I've never advocated long ball football in my life, and am not starting now. A long pass is a different matter, just as it was when Souness made them, in a system that was primarily pass and move.

I think you're missing the point, to play a short pass and move game you need your midfielders to want the ball under pressure - Gerrard doesn't, he retreats deeper to give himself space - whilst he can play the game a couple of moves ahead in his head, he still likes space to opperate. He also doesn't move quickly into space, that's the most important factor of pass and move, you have to be constantly changing position - Gerrard doesn't he is very static, add to that the tendancy to go long it really disrupts our play and makes us very predictable.. It's why West Ham and Villa got so much joy - they pressed Gerrard very close, and he couldn't handle it and our entire game plan was ruined.

Without Sturridge or Suarez, you have to adapt - we don't play a stretched, fast tempo, counter attacking game anymore, and thus the need for Gerrard is vastly reduced.

I believe if our defence wasn't a complete shambles and needed his baby sitting in terms of leadership, he would be playing a lot less.

Is the answer Toure and Lucas? I'd certainly give that a few games to test the water.

[steveeastend]

You're totally mistaking the point.

Short pass and move football requires quick, intelligent movement up front, even more than a long pass does. Coutinho and Sterling need the movement of a striker, to create angles for a pass, or to drag defenders out of shape to create space for themselves to run at the defence. The team - and our creative players - have not become more incisive in the absence of a handful of long passes per game. Why? Because we've still lacked the sort of intelligent movement we get from Sturridge.

We haven't played this sort of football with the exception of Swansea and Real away and we don't know whether Balotelli would benefit from that as the main man in the middle, Sterling, Borini for sure smart enough to benefit from this way of play on the wing together with our full backs.

I think your argument, more or less exusing our lack of creativity with the lack of Suarez and Sturridge only doesn't work IMO, to me it's because of our direct play so far which is in it's nature not creative enough.

For being creative there have to be enough players in the final third to pass the ball around, why shouldn't Balotelli be able to benefit from that?

[steveeastend]

Is the answer Toure and Lucas? I'd certainly give that a few games to test the water.

At the moment, the answer is Lucas, there is no doubt about that, simply because there is no other player ready to play the holding role the way it would suit a proper pass and move kind of play. Can, in the future, or maybe to rotate with Lucas, playing besides him.

[redmark]

I think you're missing the point, to play a short pass and move game...

Which wasn't the point I was responding to:

Without Gerrard, we are way more flexible in our passing and overall play and a combination of Borini and Balotelli would work totally fine.

We don't need another Gerrard/midfield combination thread. The point was simply that Borini and Balotelli do not fit any sort of pass and move side, which requires intelligent, pacy movement upfront.

[steveeastend]

Which wasn't the point I was responding to:

Without Gerrard, we are way more flexible in our passing and overall play and a combination of Borini and Balotelli would work totally fine.

We don't need another Gerrard/midfield combination thread. The point was simply that Borini and Balotelli do not fit any sort of pass and move side, which requires intelligent, pacy movement upfront.

Mate, that's not true at all. Gerrard doesn't fit, as much as you don't wanna hear about it, simply because he is not fit enough anymore for the constant movement and because he obviously doesn't want to change his way of play at the end of his career.

[redmark]

For being creative there have to be enough players in the final third to pass the ball around, why shouldn't Balotelli be able to benefit from that?

We've been getting plenty of players into the final third all season. They've had plenty of the ball too, not particularly hampered by a certain midfielder's habit of no more than 7 or 8 'long passes', on average, per game. Balotelli doesn't make runs off the backs of defenders, he doesn't run the channels. His usual position and posture is to stand still, marked, with his back to goal, wanting the ball into feet. When he has the ball, he doesn't make great decisions or link up well with his teammates, usually taking a couple too many touches, losing the ball and vainly appealing for a foul, or dragging a shot wide from 30 yards.

Essentially, it doesn't matter how short and quick we pass the ball through midfield, if the striker is static and makes the wrong decisions.

[redmark]

Mate, that's not true at all. Gerrard doesn't fit, as much as you don't wanna hear about it, simply because he is not fit enough anymore for the constant movement and because he obviously doesn't want to change his way of play at the end of his career.

You're the one talking about Gerrard again. In what way does Balotelli fit a pass and move side? No assertions, make an argument about how Balotelli will link up with and get the best out of Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana - to repeat, I'm not talking about Gerrard, despite your obsession - players who want to play clever little through balls, or get the ball back occasionally.

There's an easy, flippant (but still accurate) dismissal of Balotelli's contribution in a pass and move side - he does neither. He neither makes the runs to finish a move, or play the right pass at the right time without taking too many touches and usually losing the ball or shooting hopefully.

[Borini does make 'better' runs, but still not on Sturridge's level (and lacks the quality to finish a move).]

[SerbianScouser]

Essentially, it doesn't matter how short and quick we pass the ball through midfield, if the striker is static and makes the wrong decisions.

It`s not that simple. First game where we had Sturridge who definitely isn`t that static striker until Lambert came on and we played with 2 strikers we struggled badly to create anything for him. It is much more complicated than just the mobility of the striker as the performance of the midfield is vastly important - and the level of that performance this season has been fairly underwhelming.

[redmark]

It`s not that simple. First game where we had Sturridge who definitely isn`t that static striker until Lambert came on and we played with 2 strikers we struggled badly to create anything for him. It is much more complicated than just the mobility of the striker as the performance of the midfield is vastly important - and the level of that performance this season has been fairly underwhelming.

I never said it was 'just' the mobility of the striker, but that that mobility is a critical part of a pass and move game. Of course a mobile striker ahead of a struggling midfield is equally dysfunctional. But that was the first game of the season, with Coutinho in particularly struggling, against a Southampton side who have conceded only 3 goals in 9 games since.

[Kennys from heaven]

Interesting that a question was asked about "how shocked were you at the team selection" I admit I was, but not for who Brendan picked but the fact that he actually did pick them.

Lots of references to changing the guard here and the Madrid game (if we're reading this correctly and he don't go and re-instate all the players he left out tomorrow) was proof final that Rodgers has the balls to manage this team.

Past Liverpool sides have seen legends, icons, even sold on or retired out with minimal fuss. Simply put, if you do not put the performance in that befits the Liverpool football club shirt, then no-one should be immune from losing their place. We've assembled a large squad now of young, talented players that cost serious money. I cannot understand all the whiners (excellent post DonkeyWan btw) and twats in the media who said about the strongest side and we "played a weakened team", etc. Lets just look at that shall we:

Markovic = Serbian International.
Lallana = England International
Emre Can = (German International... Didn't they win something recently as well...?)
Kolo Toure = (Ivory Coast International)
Lucas Leiva = (Brazilian International)
Fabio Borini = (Italy International)

So, go ahead and define "Strongest side" ? If you ask me, having that array of talent at your disposal should mean Brendan should be like a dog with two dicks. It is fully expected that all/any of those players should be pushing for inclusion in every game. Thats what makes a strong side. Competition for places. If you don't do it, someone else will. I have felt for a few years now (disclaimer: Do not think for one moment that I am attacking players or running them down with what I am about to type.) that we have overly relied on a number of players, probably at the detriment of the development of others and kept the faith with them because we became way too attached to see past them.

We've not evolved (and yes, this is also been down to a number of reasons off the pitch with ownership, etc) as we have in the past.

Last Wednesday for me, showed that we have the players who can potentially step up and take on the mantle of being a Liverpool player with all the weight that carries. Room for massive improvement of course, as we were very blunt in the final third, but we played with tempo, gusto and no small amount of skill against what many consider the best team in the World. We showed last season that we could take games to sides and swamp them. This season, we've struggled with consistency in performances but Wednesday saw a partial return to what made us good last season. Yes, we lost, but we played well for the majority of the game and whilst coming out of it with no points will provide ammo to those who will always see bad or want to stir the shit because we're Liverpool, I saw enough there to show both from a player perspective and more critically from a Managerial perspective, that we are moving in the right direction.

Now comes the key part:

Brendan made a bold statement Wednesday evening. By doing that however, he's made a rod for his back now and has to see this through by not re-instating ALL of the players he dropped. And that's how I am looking at it. He dropped them - and was right to do so. If he DOES bring them back in, all the good work done Wednesday will be undone and he'll be heavily scruitinised and pliioried and being dispassionate, rightly so. He'll be showing weakness. From my perspective I think it would be inexcusable if Can, Lucas and Toure don't play given their performances Wednesday evening (injury excepted).

I felt massively strange at the result Wednesday - on one hand we lost and I hated that, but on the other, I thought "This is more like it" and took a great deal from the improvement across the board. This is now the line in the sand we've made for ourselves. The bar we've set. How we played Wednesday needs to be improved on, not lowered.

Rodgers has my full support for the team he picked and the comical "outrage" at it that I've read and seen everywhere is utterly laughable, but I'm afraid that these are the times we live in. Shanks made bold decisions, as did Paisley, Dalglish as have other successful managers throughout time. Brendan made his Wednesday but key thing is, was it a token gesture or statement of intent?

[TheTeflonJohn]

Who here was shocked by Rodger's team sheet?
My question arises after comments of Platini, Mourinho, and Lineker.

Especially the Platini-comment.

How does everybody feel about this?

For me, I am mad Platini would use *me* *us* to criticize Brendan.
I thought "hmm, no stevie?" apart from that, Lovren Johnson Hendo and Balo being dropped was no shocker for me. And even dropping the captain wasn't a problem, at all, for me.
Brendan has my full support, he could have played a youngster for all I care.

I'm sure some will be pissed about the teamsheet, some (as me) will not care - gaffer knows best.

I'm interested in what the majority of my fellow fans think about this.

Yesterday at the pub, I heard a lot on this as well. Non-Liverpool fans were shocked, I'm not. Where's the problem?

Agree with this. No one else matters on this subject apart from us and the club. Rodgers done what he thought best for the club/team and it almost paid off. The pricks in the media, other club managers and fans etc have got absolutely nothing to do with us and our best interests. In fact, half these selfie stick, day tripping, internet whingers don`t matter.

I was taken back when I first saw the team sheet but after reflection, realised I`m not the manager, Rodgers is! The lads who went out on the pitch done their best and did me and the majority of the travelling fans proud on the night. It doesn`t feel good to be almost content with a one nil defeat but the fact is Madrid are on another planet to us at the moment, never mind another level.

The first half was a non entity with the lads seeming to grow into the game as the second half wore on. The loss of little Luis looks like it`s affected us more than we thought, so we need patience, need to realise this is a team in transition with alot of new/young players trying to find their feet.

Onwards and upwards.

[Halcyon Lissome]

Well no, we would only need this sort of player when playing those long balls and constant direct football with Gerrard as the main man in the center. Without Gerrard, we are way more flexible in our passing and overall play and a combination of Borini and Balotelli would work totally fine.

Besides that, we have this sort of player already in the squad, Sterling, who has been run into the ground because of having no flexibility in our play so far this season.

And yet without Gerrard - supposedly the inhibitor of this kind of play - we create less chances and we have less of the ball.

I think you need to post less and read more. Redmark is giving you gems.

To show you how irrelevant the above point is; Liverpool play 540 passes per game. Gerrard only makes 8 long balls per gam. So 8/540 = 1.5% of our passes in a game. This is not the reason our team isn't more fluid. Stop with the nonsensical narrative.

[irish musicman]

Interesting that a question was asked about "how shocked were you at the team selection" I admit I was, but not for who Brendan picked but the fact that he actually did pick them.

Lots of references to changing the guard here and the Madrid game (if we're reading this correctly and he don't go and re-instate all the players he left out tomorrow) was proof final that Rodgers has the balls to manage this team.

Past Liverpool sides have seen legends, icons, even sold on or retired out with minimal fuss. Simply put, if you do not put the performance in that befits the Liverpool football club shirt, then no-one should be immune from losing their place. We've assembled a large squad now of young, talented players that cost serious money. I cannot understand all the whiners (excellent post DonkeyWan btw) and twats in the media who said about the strongest side and we "played a weakened team", etc. Lets just look at that shall we:

Markovic = Serbian International.
Lallana = England International
Emre Can = (German International... Didn't they win something recently as well...?)
Kolo Toure = (Ivory Coast International)
Lucas Leiva = (Brazilian International)
Fabio Borini = (Italy International)

So, go ahead and define "Strongest side" ? If you ask me, having that array of talent at your disposal should mean Brendan should be like a dog with two dicks. It is fully expected that all/any of those players should be pushing for inclusion in every game. Thats what makes a strong side. Competition for places. If you don't do it, someone else will. I have felt for a few years now (disclaimer: Do not think for one moment that I am attacking players or running them down with what I am about to type.) that we have overly relied on a number of players, probably at the detriment of the development of others and kept the faith with them because we became way too attached to see past them.

We've not evolved (and yes, this is also been down to a number of reasons off the pitch with ownership, etc) as we have in the past.

Last Wednesday for me, showed that we have the players who can potentially step up and take on the mantle of being a Liverpool player with all the weight that carries. Room for massive improvement of course, as we were very blunt in the final third, but we played with tempo, gusto and no small amount of skill against what many consider the best team in the World. We showed last season that we could take games to sides and swamp them. This season, we've struggled with consistency in performances but Wednesday saw a partial return to what made us good last season. Yes, we lost, but we played well for the majority of the game and whilst coming out of it with no points will provide ammo to those who will always see bad or want to stir the shit because we're Liverpool, I saw enough there to show both from a player perspective and more critically from a Managerial perspective, that we are moving in the right direction.

Now comes the key part:

Brendan made a bold statement Wednesday evening. By doing that however, he's made a rod for his back now and has to see this through by not re-instating ALL of the players he dropped. And that's how I am looking at it. He dropped them - and was right to do so. If he DOES bring them back in, all the good work done Wednesday will be undone and he'll be heavily scruitinised and pliioried and being dispassionate, rightly so. He'll be showing weakness. From my perspective I think it would be inexcusable if Can, Lucas and Toure don't play given their performances Wednesday evening (injury excepted).

I felt massively strange at the result Wednesday - on one hand we lost and I hated that, but on the other, I thought "This is more like it" and took a great deal from the improvement across the board. This is now the line in the sand we've made for ourselves. The bar we've set. How we played Wednesday needs to be improved on, not lowered.

Rodgers has my full support for the team he picked and the comical "outrage" at it that I've read and seen everywhere is utterly laughable, but I'm afraid that these are the times we live in. Shanks made bold decisions, as did Paisley, Dalglish as have other successful managers throughout time. Brendan made his Wednesday but key thing is, was it a token gesture or statement of intent?

Fantastic post mate

[John C]

There's two great articles, in my opinion, endorsing BR's team selection that can accompany this thread in to the archives.

Kenny Dalglish
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brendan-rodgers-lot-right-against-4587241

Brian Reade
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/brian-reade-column-brendan-rodgers-4573721