Topic: RAWK Round Table: LFC 2-1 Southampton

[liversaint]

LFC Supporters Clubs were rockin all over the world.

I like it, I like it....

On a serious note, love reading these threads. Always makes me think and realise how little I know!

[markedasred]

I can't agree with this. We didn't do anywhere near enough to stop Southampton playing, we dropped deep and allowed them to play, we lacked hunger to win the ball, we seemed contempt in waiting for them to hand it back to us and several of our players looked tired and laboured.

The spaces we allowed, Clyne and Ward Prowse in particular was criminal at times and it made the back fours job harder than it needed to be, I would say that many other teams would have taken advantage of our shortcomings rather than the other way round.

Lets have a look at how they have got on then, by about Christmas. They look top eight to me.

[exiledinyorkshire]

Our pretty good start to last year though was mostly performances like yesterday. Scraping by, relying on last-ditch tackles and Mignolet to hold things together. Our performances with them last year were of Top 4 outsiders. Once Gerrard (and then Lucas) got injured, we quickly turned into title contenders.

now you see that sounds harsh, but your not far wrong from memory.

It has to be one or tuther it cant be both. Lazy git that I am, what was the starting line up more often than not for the 11 game winning streak, I'm pretty sure it didn't feature Lucas that often as a starter.

We aren't in our groove yet, we wont be for a while. The result on Sunday was all that counts. A point at City would be a massive, massive step forward. Don't care if its awful to watch or if its a really poor performance, just get me a point Brendan. I'll happily settle for six to eight weeks of grinding out the points.

We just know, by our experience that Liverpool under Rodgers will click into to gear, its been after xmas for the first two seasons. Will be interesting to see if Rodgers can get them to put a winning streak together early doors this year.

The stats are very interesting. I thought that Southampton was even stevens. Its been made to feel since the final whistle as though we were taken apart from start to finish by them, and that simply wasn't the case. Ward Prowse may have been given the whole of the middle of the park by Gerrard and Lucas, but my word he's a good player. I think that Southampton are a very good side, they have been dismantled in the summer, but it looks like they are still an excellent unit with a deep squad. Will look like 3 very good points in the next month or so, just like the defeat last year was put into context by the way they took it to everybody else as well.

[Mr Dilkington]

I agree with Elston on the Lucas/Gerrard thing.

For me, it should be Lucas or Gerrard, not both. Obviously Brendan disagrees because he played both on Sunday, but I just don't think it works. I was nodding along to everything Neil was saying on the subject on the latest Anfield Wrap. It doesn't suit Gerrard, it doesn't suit Lucas, and it really doesn't suit Coutinho who has been developing so well in that number 8 role. That means it comes down to Gerrard or Lucas for one position (in my eyes) and it has to be Gerrard, because he's just a better player. I think Lucas can do a perfectly reasonable job as the '1' behind leggy midfielders, but then we also have Allen to perform that role if need be. And with Can in there too, I think Lucas will find games hard to come by. Not to mention Lallana who will probably play in a number of different roles this season.

I think as the season progresses, we'll see Coutinho shifted back into that 8 role, and depending on Markovic's development, it'll be him or Lallana on whatever wing Sterling isn't playing. I'd rather have Lallana playing further up field than Phil, because you get the feeling Lallana will score double the amount of goals Phil would from the same position.

On the Southampton game. One thing: I genuinely believe some still don't realise just how special a player we have on our hands with Sterling. Most folk now seem to recognise he's a great talent, but he's better than that. He's better than any description I've ever seen on him from the mainstream media. The Mancs are rightly very enthusiastic about Januzaj, and the lad is clearly a heck of a talent, but he's nothing like as good as Sterling. But then no one else in Europe at that age is. Not even close. Now maybe there's a player or two out there who I'm not aware of or haven't seen enough of, but I find it almost impossible to believe there's any 19/20 year olds out there as good as Sterling. The lad hit 10 goals last season, and he only really got a run for the second half. The sky is the limit for him. I expect him to exceed 10 goals this season, and also to start adding assists (good start on Sunday!). It'll be interesting to see close Markovic is to him this season. It's a wee challenge for the Serb. There's so much competition now, and it's healthy. For now!

[GrkStav]

Haven't seen many who disagree with that. Almost everyone seems to agree that it's the Lucas-Gerrard partnership that doesn't work, and Gerrard is the superior player if you have to choose between them.

Of course he is the superior overall player.

OTOH, there are situations where an e.g. Lucas-Can double pivot formation may work better than a Gerrard-Can or a Gerrard-Allen or a Gerrard-Henderson or a Gerrard-Lucas double-pivot. As I've said before, if we choose to go with a double-pivot, Can should be one of the two.

The chances of Gerrard being fit and available (and not obviously knackered and in dire need of a rest) and not starting in anything but a very low-priority, or 'already won' (e.g. in a home-and-away tie), or before an extremely important match are slim and none.

BR appears to consider using Gerrard anywhere other than as A. the '1' of a 1-2 or 1-2-1 midfield or B. one of the '2' in a double-pivot formation (4231, 4222, 3412, 3421) as either out of the question completely or as an emergency option (even then, he'd rather use Lucas as a 'runner/box-to-box, which tells us something).

[conman]

We just know, by our experience that Liverpool under Rodgers will click into to gear, its been after xmas for the first two seasons. Will be interesting to see if Rodgers can get them to put a winning streak together early doors this year.

I just want to pick up on that comment. In Brendans first year, it was after xmas when we picked up our performances, but it coincided with him & the team finding their feet with his new methods, and playing kids before to boot. After xmas, he signed Coutinho & Sturridge and we never looked back.

Last year, yea fair enough your points rings true, but then again it was helped by Sterling finding form & Suarez returning from suspension and a beautiful purple patch.

I'd agree that it will take us a while to ramp up and get into our stride, but I would be willing to bet it will happen much quicker this year than those before.

[ElstonGunn]

The chances of Gerrard being fit and available (and not obviously knackered and in dire need of a rest) and not starting in anything but a very low-priority, or 'already won' (e.g. in a home-and-away tie), or before an extremely important match are slim and none.

I'm not sure that's true. Rodgers has openly talked about having to rotate him more this year with the CL. Certainly you'd expect Gerrard to play any truly big game, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him rested fairly often in more run of the mill cup or league games, once the multiple competitions start telling.

[GrkStav]

I'm not sure that's true. Rodgers has openly talked about having to rotate him more this year with the CL. Certainly you'd expect Gerrard to play any truly big game, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him rested fairly often in more run of the mill cup or league games, once the multiple competitions start telling.

I wasn't aware of the first part in bold.

In that case, you're right. I will adjust my expectations thus (at least move in that direction).

[DanA]

Either way I think City will be the last game for a while that Rodgers considers a double pivot. With Lallana and Markovic back from injury  I'd have thought Henderson moves deeper and it makes no sense to shackle him as a holding midfielder that doesn't bomb forward.

[GrkStav]

Either way I think City will be the last game for a while that Rodgers considers a double pivot. With Lallana and Markovic back from injury  I'd have thought Henderson moves deeper and it makes no sense to shackle him as a holding midfielder that doesn't bomb forward.

If so, I hope it's Gerrard plus Can as the '2'. At least until we're ahead in the score and it's the 60-65th minute.

[DanA]

If so, I hope it's Gerrard plus Can as the '2'. At least until we're ahead in the score and it's the 60-65th minute.

I liked Can as well though I don't want a double pivot. I'd rather play the midfield diamond.

[woof]

Thought we did reasonably well before Sterling's goal. A few nice passes that could have ended in beautiful goals but they didn't materialise. After the break, we didn't change our shape but Soton did respond. Ward-Prowse was busy working in spaces and all of a sudden, our midfield looked overwhelmed by Soton's. Perhaps it was a mentality issue, thinking we could pulverise visiting teams like we did at the second half of last season. I hope that's a wake up call to the team. What's done last season has gone and past. Here we go again..... I know it's cliche but it's true. We can't live in the past.

It's fair to say that a few players weren't at their sharpest. Our passes weren't as crisp but thank goodness our defence and goal keeper came through when it counted.

Soton sat deep and they are now a more physical team than under Ponch. They are a lot bigger too with Pelle as the new big man. We are going to get more teams doing that when they play us at home.

Would have loved to see Lallana or Markovic on the bench as attacking threats. At the moment, we only have Sterling, Coutinho and Sturridge going at defences. It made our play look laboured when Coutinho was taken out of the game

[GrkStav]

I liked Can as well though I don't want a double pivot. I'd rather play the midfield diamond.

The diamond formation is not a panacea, especially against an extremely well-stocked club with an excellent manager.

[steveeastend]

The diamond is not a panacea..

I thought they are forever but that's truly in the past I suppose..

[exiledinyorkshire]

I just want to pick up on that comment. In Brendans first year, it was after xmas when we picked up our performances, but it coincided with him & the team finding their feet with his new methods, and playing kids before to boot. After xmas, he signed Coutinho & Sturridge and we never looked back.

Last year, yea fair enough your points rings true, but then again it was helped by Sterling finding form & Suarez returning from suspension and a beautiful purple patch.

I'd agree that it will take us a while to ramp up and get into our stride, but I would be willing to bet it will happen much quicker this year than those before.

I hope so. It would really show progress if we could string 7-8 wins together before x-mas. And lets face it we will need to if we want to be in the title race again this year, because Chelsea and City are going to be much more consistent from the start.

All good though at the moment. Big game at the weekend, not sure we are ready for such a stern test just yet, but you never know.

[fowlermagic]

It was a hard fought win as Southampton still are a very decent side and had us on the ropes a good few times. I be very surprised if that side does not finish top 10.

Three points when one was on the cards is a good way to start the league as we showed some bottle there to scrape the win out. Defence played well enough with Mignolet producing a wonder save at the end and a nice debut by Lovren & Manquilo. With the addition of Moreno we soon could have the likes of Johnson, Agger, Sakho, Flanagan as back up/starters. That is great squad depth.

Up front the boys played well considering the supply was not the greatest. Sturridge's finish was predatory and Sterling may be our best player this season if he keeps up his current development. Coutinho was quiet enough which was disappointing but the lad has some talent and if he is a bit hit or miss like last season then Lallana will definitely give us great options/support in the attacking CM role.

Midfield was disappointing as they got run over at times but the ring rust is still there so no worries yet. It will be interesting to see how we develop over the year knowing SG cannot start every league / cup game so don't be surprised to see us experiment a little as no harm in pulling him off now & then when games allow it to see how Can or even Henderson (or both) compliment each other without SG there.

[PhaseOfPlay]

The diamond formation is not a panacea, especially against an extremely well-stocked club with an excellent manager.

It would solve our issues against them in midfield though

[LiverBirdKop]

I can't agree with this. We didn't do anywhere near enough to stop Southampton playing, we dropped deep and allowed them to play, we lacked hunger to win the ball, we seemed contempt in waiting for them to hand it back to us and several of our players looked tired and laboured.

The spaces we allowed, Clyne and Ward Prowse in particular was criminal at times and it made the back fours job harder than it needed to be, I would say that many other teams would have taken advantage of our shortcomings rather than the other way round.

I agree with your analysis. On paper, a partnership of Lucas and GErrard should work. But.....

I honestly can't wait to see how we would do without Stevie and Lucas in the lineup. Lallana, Can, Henderson, etc.

[farawayred]

If so, I hope it's Gerrard plus Can as the '2'. At least until we're ahead in the score and it's the 60-65th minute.

I think that the City game comes too soon for Can to make his league debut. Had that been a month later, then fine, but now it's too risky.

On the flip side, he who doesn't risk, never gets to drink champagne...

[Chakan]

Michael Oliver has our game against City next monday

[GrkStav]

It would solve our issues against them in midfield though

Sheets/blankets and all that good stuff, eh? 

[BabuYagu]

Furthermore, he didn't "give the ball away a number of times" in the 2nd half. He gave the ball away twice. Once on an attempted soft pass to Skrtel (unclear what the effect of the wind had on that, or what part of the responsibility for the pass not reaching its destination falls on the intended receiver, Skrtel) and once on an attempted pass to Coutinho which was partly shielded by the referee (it should thus probably not been attempted) and smartly cut-off and intercepted by Wanyama. That's it for the 2nd half.

That seemed very low to me so I looked into it and it seems there were 4.
49 minutes - on the right side of midfield trying to play the ball back.
51 minutes - over near our right back position playing the ball into midfield.
53 minutes - over near our left back position.
58 minutes - just inside their half to the left of center circle.

I think it´s that 3 in quick succession which gives the impression he was constantly giving the ball away when he didn´t really, no more so than anybody else. Our entire midfield just look very poor, unenergetic/dynamic and he was part of it. His biggest problem was that he was taking Hendersons place in there and doesn´t have anywhere near the same energy and so people are making the overly simple leap that the lethargic midfield was down to Lucas instead of Henderson. I think Gerrard and Coutinho were both very very poor also.

Lucas gave the ball away 7 times, Gerrard 8 and Coutinho 9 times. On top of this Coutinho got caught in possession a lot by Southampton (7 times), Gerrard once and Lucas 0 times. I think replacing either of Gerrard or Lucas with Can or Allen would have seen a better performance in the middle. The obvious choice of the two to makeway is Lucas because the other is our greatest ever player, captain, etc. I think a Lucas-Coutinho-Can/Allen midfield would have worked very well personally. For me at this point in his career, Gerrard is either our Regista or an impact sub. Watching him as part of a midfield two was painful last season, painful in the summer and painful against Southampton. We need to just stop trying to make it work and accept he doesn´t have the legs for it.

[GrkStav]

I'm on it to confirm BabuYagu! 

Great analysis, by the way!

Well, there were not 4. There were two. The attempted wall pass back to Skrtel, and the attempted through-pass to Coutinho (that was just too precise of a pass to attempt).

There was also a tackle and clearance attempt (helping out Gerrard at the edge of the 18-yard box) that could have turned into a pass that was intercepted.

All his other attempted passes look successful to me. It's possible I missed the other two you saw but I looked pretty carefully.

Btw, he was forward-marking and pressing in the 62nd minute, at which time he was supposedly knackered.

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/502344953851174912/photo/1


Having said that, right before SFC's goal, he had busted a gut to cover for Lovren (who recovered very athletically, btw) and chase down Ward-Prowse who did manage to execute a nice crossing pass from the edge of the 18-yard box.

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/502336140477612033/photo/1

Manquillo ends up clearing for a throw-in. It was from that throw-in, taken by S.Davis that the ball got to Clyne and their first goal was the final result. S. Davis was the "shadowy figure" :-D in the gif of their goal above that both Sterling and Johnson were apparently pre-occupied with when Clyne dribbled toward and then passed to Tadic.

[BabuYagu]

Match Analysis - How Dejan Lovren fared against former club Southampton during his Liverpool debut

Liverpool got their new campaign off to a good start with a 2-1 win over Southampton at Anfield on Sunday afternoon, thanks to goals from Raheem Sterling and Daniel Sturridge.

It has been a huge summer of change at Liverpool with Brendan Rodgers signing eight players while one big one in Luis Suarez leaving the club. The Uruguayan hit 31 goals in the Premier League last season and will be a huge loss for the Reds.

However, they conceded 50 goals at the other end and one way to alleviate the loss of Suarez’s goals is to concede fewer at the back. Rodgers has looked to solve that problem this summer with the signings of Javier Manquillo and Alberto Moreno at full-back, but the big signing at the back is Dejan Lovren from Southampton.

The Croatian is the man tasked with leading and organising the Liverpool defence both vocally and by example, which is what was missing last season after Jamie Carragher’s retirement in the summer of 2013.

Lovren was a target for the Reds last summer but Southampton got there quicker and look to have made around a £12 million profit on the central defender, with Liverpool paying what was needed to get him in a Red shirt and playing regularly in front of the Kop.

Coincidentally, Lovren made his league debut for Liverpool against Southampton at Anfield, a ground at which he scored the winning goal for the Saints last season.

He started at the back with Martin Skrtel to his right-hand side and Glen Johnson playing out of position at left-back. The Croatian looked confident and a step above what the Reds had last season straight away. He was leaping above Graziano Pelle and winning headers, putting his foot in quickly and early to win the ball back for his side and starting attacks with good passing.

Lovren misplaced just three passes from the 68 he attempted against Southampton.

In the first half alone, Lovren completed all 43 of his passes. Liverpool had Mamadou Sakho on the sidelines who is superb on the ball, completing 92% of his passes last season, but if Lovren keeps up passing displays like the first-half at Anfield, the Frenchman probably won’t be missed.

In total, he completed 96% of his passes, misplacing just three throughout the 90 minutes.

Lovren only contested one tackle but won it, beating Pelle to the ball, who he kept quiet throughout the Italian’s performance.

He also won 50% of his 10 headed duels. A 50% success rate isn’t the best but to win five headed duels – more than any other player in the Liverpool side – is a decent figure. After all, he was up against Pelle who scored most of his 23 goals in the Eredivisie last season with his head and himself won 139 of 146 contested headed duels over the course of his previous season with Feyenoord in the Eredivisie.

Pelle’s duel success with Feyenoord in the Eredivise, 2013/14.

The Croatian also made four interceptions, which only Javier Manquillo – who was also making his competitive debut for Liverpool – equalled. Last season, Lovren made 84 in total which was more than anyone else at Liverpool and he’s set to lead the charts again, but this time for Liverpool. It also shows what type of defender he is as Lovren loves to step forward and pick the ball up before it reaches the opposition player he’s marking.

Lovren’s clearances against Southampton.

If we add to that his 11 clearances that only Martin Skrtel (20) beat, you have quite a strong defensive performance on your hands. Skrtel made the most clearances in Europe’s top leagues last season so it was always going to be hard for Lovren to perform more and, regardless, it’s far more effective for a defender to intercept a ball as opposed to hoofing it up field. In terms of interceptions, where Skrtel performed two, Lovren cut out an opponent’s pass on four occasions.

Lovren was brought into Liverpool to lead the defence and he did so today. Aside from Southampton’s equaliser where Dusan Tadic’s magic beat the Croatian, it was a strong performance from Lovren and a promising one for the rest of the season.

He may have been expensive but Lovren may well may worth every penny judging by his performance on Sunday.

- By Jack Watson (18 August 2014) - Squawka

EDIT - Just to be clear, this is not my article. The link to it is available at the top of my post clicking on the title. If you like what you read and think the author deserves a hit for his efforts, please do so. I thought it was an excellent article and wanted to share and keep it in here for posterity.

[E2K]

The beginning of a new season and from this vantage point, once again, everything seems possible. It feels that way every August, of course, but what actually is possible can vary greatly from year to year. Sometimes, regardless of how realistic you try to be, you end up suffering self-inflicted disappointment all the same. I wonder now, for example, where exactly my little spring of optimism about a team that boasted Andy Carroll, Charlie Adam and Stewart Downing as key components sprang from ahead of the 2011/12 season, or how I ever convinced myself that Paul Ince was the missing piece of Roy Evans’ puzzle way back in 1997. Hell, once upon a time I probably even expected great things from El-Hadji Diouf (I can’t actually remember, but I’m sure that particular repressed memory will come back to me eventually). I suppose misguided optimism with a bit (sometimes a lot) of delusion thrown in just goes hand-in-hand with being a football supporter.

Other times, circumstances make a mockery of hopes and expectations that may seem realistic, even justified, like the last time Liverpool went into a season as League runners-up. 2008/09 was a campaign of landmarks, similar to 2013/14 in that respect. Having been top scorers in the League, achieving the club’s highest points total since (you guessed it, the ultimate yardstick season) 1987/88 in the process with only two losses (and just 6 out of 76 stretching back two years), Liverpool had also become the top-ranked team in European football. With all of that in mind, many of us approached 2009/10 with a fair degree of confidence despite the loss of a quality, dependable defender in Alvaro Arbeloa and, more importantly, an absolutely player in Xabi Alonso. That confidence subsequently proved misplaced as the team proceeded to exit the Champions League at the group stages and finish 7th in the League, kicking off a five-year exile from Europe’s most prestigious competition that will only end next month with matchday one of the 2014/15 Champions League.

With another world-class player exiting Anfield this summer, we can only hope that history isn’t about to repeat itself. Time will tell. On Sunday, Liverpool missed Luis Suárez, no question. It was a sluggish performance that passed off without much in the way of spark from the home side, Jordan Henderson’s phenomenal pass, Raheem Sterling’s brilliant finish and Daniel Sturridge’s poacher’s instinct (I’ll be damned if this lad hasn’t developed into a complete centre-forward) about as much inspiration as we got. And Southampton were excellent, so much so that it often seemed like they had twelve or thirteen players on the pitch to our eleven. It was the kind of game where a dollop or two of the Uruguayan’s unique genius might have papered over the cracks of what turned out to be a below-average performance where a Mignolet save and the frame of the Kop-end goal were all that stopped the away side leaving with a point or even all three.

The good news in that, unlike the aforementioned summer of 2009, Liverpool have strengthened this summer (even before the proposed signing of Mario Balotelli). Back in 2009, Rafa Benítez only managed to bring in two direct replacements for Arbeloa and Alonso (Alberto Aquilani and Glen Johnson respectively, who subsequently managed to start a combined 34 times out of a possible 76 in the League that season, less than half) and not an awful lot else (just 6’4” of painfully slow Greek granite in Sotirios Kyrgiakos). This summer, by contrast, Brendan Rodgers has brought in 7 players for the new season (8 if Balotelli signs), the vast majority of whom appear to have been first-choice signings in their respective positions (undoubtedly the case for Emre Can, Adam Lallana, Lazar Markovic, Dejan Lovren and Alberto Moreno, probably Javier Manquillo too, with Rickie Lambert likely the only one who wasn’t a long-standing target). Divock Origi, obviously one for next season, was another whom the club aggressively targeted and secured. And these are mostly promising, highly-rated young players who are likely to improve. The squad is stronger now, regardless of whether a few of the players apparently kicking their heels in the departures lounge at the moment (Borini, Agger, Coates, Touré) eventually join Suárez and Martin Kelly on the way out of the club.

My last post on the subject of Liverpool was back on 28 April, the day after a defeat that was “crushing to an extent that no mere game or sport has any right to ever be” (I’m sure you know the one I’m talking about). I didn’t feel much like posting about football after that, so I didn’t. My final words were that “these lads have done us proud and they’ve only just begun, whatever happens next”. Here, “next” referred to the short-term business of Liverpool’s and City’s remaining games, but what came “next” in the wider sense of what Brendan Rodgers is building at Anfield was always going to decide whether these lads really had “only just begun” or were already done like that 2008/09 team after one season where they came agonisingly close to number nineteen. This summer’s transfer business has given them the chance to build on what they achieved last season, and as the likes of Markovic, Moreno, Can, Lallana and others begin to filter into the first-team, there’s every chance that what they forge will be stronger than before.

I can’t describe how much I’m looking forward to this season.

[the 92A]

Eoin fantastic post as usual. It's exciting as I can remember it. I'm optimistic but truthfully I always am, I was nodding at El Hadj Diouff, I still have to endure an Evertonian mate throwing at me the fact I once described him as sublime, and I'll still argue Rafa was only a decent owner away from creating his vision and a  dynasty that would have rattled Real and Barca to their very foundations. There are weakness's but there is so much right about what Rodgers is creating, I'm sure he'll get the formations fine tuned, that doesn't concern me, but the team has an identity a way of playing that is implanted into the players and that is why Rodgers seems to be wary of starting with too many new faces, too soon. For me it was the problems in midfield the lack of options that made our passing game harder to play,therefore our passing began to go astray until Allen came on, but I'm optimistic because it's there in patches, it needs some fine adjustment and time to settle in but  when it does I'm confident this engine will really purr.

[John C]

Great post E2K, the bit about optimism and delusion took me back to my RAWK early days when I couldn't understand why so many posters enthused about every player we had.

And Southampton were excellent, so much so that it often seemed like they had twelve or thirteen players on the pitch to our eleven.

The lad I went to the game with said exactly that at one point. Some early posts in the main thread suggested they weren't 'that good' - christ they were excellent at times.

I wonder if we'll see that starting 11 again? Probably not, there's too much talent to return.

I'm surprised how few people have mentioned that Sterling was quite isolated and wasn't forced in to the game as often as we'd now like to see. Class goal for and from the lad though. It was only than 7 months ago some parts of the Main Stand called him some unthinkable names about his footballing inadequacies.

[paddysour]

After all, he was up against Pelle who scored most of his 23 goals in the Eredivisie last season with his head and himself won 139 of 146 contested headed duels over the course of his previous season with Feyenoord in the Eredivisie.

That can't be right 

It's encouraging if it is, as surely we would have struggled with a player like that last season

[PhaseOfPlay]

That can't be right 

It's encouraging if it is, as surely we would have struggled with a player like that last season

Definitely the season before!

[BabuYagu]

That can't be right 

It's encouraging if it is, as surely we would have struggled with a player like that last season

Yeah that is definitely a mistake by the author. I checked and it was 139/246. That's still about 57% which is pretty good for a center forward. Comparitively Bony wins 43% of his aeriel duels, Giroud wins about 51%, Crouch wins about 63%, Carroll wins 65%. So Pellé is definately in amongst the best strikers in the league in terms of that part of his game yet his % dropped to 44% (down from his average of 57%) against us.

Breaking down that even further though, and credit to Skrtel here who I am a big critic of at times, Pelle won 1 aeriel duel on Skrtel´s side of the pitch all game. Just 15% success rate against Skrtel. The other thing which isn´t shown in those stats is the number of times Lovren stepped infront of Pellé and either came away from the ball  or cleared it before there was any chance of danger. That was the main thing I was looking for from Lovren. I´m tired of seeing players get the ball into feet and being able to turn and run at our defence without having to work much for it. Lovren doesn´t let people take the ball into feet. If they do though, he will not let them turn. If they manage to perform both of those actions though, he certainly won´t back off pulling the defence into the box and hope to block the inevitable shot.

He'll do well here. He isn´t that aerielly dominant. He can hold his own but the thing he does is he backs himself to win the ball. He doesn´t back off and wait for an oppertunity to nick the ball or block a shot - reactive defending if you will ... he is aggressive and proactive in his defending. Yet despite that aggression, gave away just 1 foul all game. I love it.

His passing was on another level too. Honestly. his passing map looked more like Pirlo than a center half. 96% passing - just 3 misplaced passes all day. His only long pass that didn´t come off was a straight pass from the middle of his own half into Southampton's box which was cleared. Everyone of his long passes onto the flanks came off - 5 in total.

[GrkStav]

Pelle' won at least 3 'aerial battles' (they weren't in reality, but they were by the definitions of Opta) vs Lucas. Not a whole heck of a lot of positive came out of those 'victories' but he did win them.

[GrkStav]

Lovren doesn´t let people take the ball into feet. If they do though, he will not let them turn. If they manage to perform both of those actions though, he certainly won´t back off pulling the defence into the box and hope to block the inevitable shot.

Well, he does. Infrequently, but it did happen vs SFC.

[BabuYagu]

Well, he does. Infrequently, but it did happen vs SFC.

Did it, when?

The goal, for example. He was perfect there. Got tight on Tadic making sure if he tried to turn he was losing the ball. Tadic pulled out a world class piece of skill and at the same time 3 or 4 other players on our side decided to either leave a massive space, not track runners or not make covering runs. Don´t remember any occassions where a player Lovren was marking received the ball into feet, turned easily and then ran at our defence with him backing off.

[BabuYagu]

Pelle' won at least 3 'aerial battles' (they weren't in reality, but they were by the definitions of Opta) vs Lucas. Not a whole heck of a lot of positive came out of those 'victories' but he did win them.

Yeah I am aware he did. However, my comparison was only looking at v Lovren and v Skrtel. Those "victories" against Lucas (he had some against Johnson and Gerrard too) kept his % decent enough because he got very little off of Lovren or Skrtel. Skrtel in particular dominated him in the air all day long.

[GrkStav]

Yeah I am aware he did. However, my comparison was only looking at v Lovren and v Skrtel. Those "victories" against Lucas (he had some against Johnson and Gerrard too) kept his % decent enough because he got very little off of Lovren or Skrtel. Skrtel in particular dominated him in the air all day long.

Right. His aerial battle percentage vs LFC did not fairly and accurately represent his actual aerial performance, especially its effectiveness.

We are in agreement.

[GrkStav]

Did it, when?

The goal, for example. He was perfect there. Got tight on Tadic making sure if he tried to turn he was losing the ball. Tadic pulled out a world class piece of skill and at the same time 3 or 4 other players on our side decided to either leave a massive space, not track runners or not make covering runs. Don´t remember any occasions where a player Lovren was marking [1.]received the ball into feet, [2.]turned easily and [3.]then ran at our defence with him backing off.

You are correct, there were no occasions where ALL THREE of the items in bold above actually took place (seriatim).

'turned easily' probably requires some clarification of the 'easily' part, to render it truly objectively perceivable, measurable and reportable.

If we just go with "turned" then the 72nd/73rd minute chance is an occasion where 1 and 2 (as I numbered them) above occurred.

For their goal, he may have been 'too square' to Tadic (thanks PoP) and, through his relative positioning, he may have excessively over-protected the move and/or pass towards the vertical center (that's all my judgment).

Nitpicking to be sure.

[BabuYagu]

You are correct, there were no occasions where ALL THREE of the items in bold above actually took place (seriatim).

'turned easily' probably requires some clarification of the 'easily' part, to render it truly objectively perceivable, measurable and reportable.

If we just go with "turned" then the 72nd/73rd minute chance is an occasion where 1 and 2 (as I numbered them) above occurred.

For their goal, he may have been 'too square' to Tadic (thanks PoP) and, through his relative positioning, he may have excessively over-protected the move and/or pass towards the vertical center (that's all my judgment).

Nitpicking to be sure.

The way I read the Southampton goal was Lovren kept Tadic facing away from his goal meaning that Tadic himself was never a threat. Lovren cannot really do anything about players being left to run into the box or Skrtel leaving a 15 yard space between himself and Lovren. All he can do is make sure Tadic cannot get turned and become a thread not has any easy passing lanes into dangerous areas. In the end it took a world class bit of skill to take Lovren out of the game and then some pubteam class defending from the rest of the team to let Clyne in to score.

Will have another look at that 72/73 minute incident for sure. Did he back off at any point as you recall. A big problem I had with us defensively was the retreating we would do into our own box.

[GrkStav]

The way I read the Southampton goal was Lovren kept Tadic facing away from his goal meaning that Tadic himself was never a threat. Lovren cannot really do anything about players being left to run into the box or Skrtel leaving a 15 yard space between himself and Lovren. All he can do is make sure Tadic cannot get turned and become a thread not has any easy passing lanes into dangerous areas. In the end it took a world class bit of skill to take Lovren out of the game and then some pubteam class defending from the rest of the team to let Clyne in to score.

Will have another look at that 72/73 minute incident for sure. Did he back off at any point as you recall. A big problem I had with us defensively was the retreating we would do into our own box.

The man he was marking (I think it was Tadic again) was able to turn and face Mignolet's goal and deliver a forward pass to a similar area as he delivered it for their goal. In the second case, both Ward-Prowse and Clyne could have gotten to that ball. This ended up working to our advantage, allowing together with the relative initial placement of Johnson and Skrtel, for Johnson to prevent Clyne from hitting the shot.

Still, the man Lovren was marking was able to receive the ball, turn and face Mignolet's goal and deliver a pass into a good area of our 18-yard box for Clyne and Ward-Prowse to run onto and possibly shoot at goal.

In this case, I believe it was Gerrard who didn't 'track' the run of Ward-Prowse.

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/502957283215540224/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/502957953033318402/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/502958733492617217/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/501260860656865281/photo/1

and

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/501261596904017921/photo/1

[eLToRo]

Not one bit surprised with those stats , wondering why Rodgers doesn't see it ?

He does, I would say.

But with just one really good striker at the minute he probably feels that the team is better with Lucas- Gerrard and Sturridge up top rather than Gerrard and Lambert - Sturridge.

Or maybe for some reason he felt that he had to play the 4-2-3-1 against Southampton and Lucas has a good week in training ahead of Can or Allen.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

What about the idea that Lucas is done at Anfield, but Rodgers felt he deserved one more run out?  We went to Denmark for a friendly to Brondby for Agger. 

Rodgers' humanistic approach might have some layers to it:

1) Probably still trusts Lucas although the game is passing him by a bit
2) If Lucas does leave this window, he deserves some credit/time with the 1st team for his efforts
3) The Southampton match-up appeared to fit the 4-2-3-1 pre-game tactics for introducing Lovren/Manquillo into the team
4) Provides a lifeline to Lucas if he plays well, maybe he stays for the ride (or Napoli pay more).
 
This is pure speculation and bound to be rife with errors, but imagining why Lucas started the first game, this is what I came up with.

Maybe, this is what Rodgers was thinking with starting Lucas last week (as the loan to Napoli is now public).

All the best to Lucas Leiva!!!!