Author Topic: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3  (Read 45205 times)

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #160 on: May 9, 2014, 09:27:34 pm »
Did you see Rodgers and Pascoe doing this?



Then they weren´t trying hard enough!

I am hoping you didn't think I was implying anything of the sort. I understand I overstated my case (it was before 8 am here when I did, so some excuse) but I also explained what I meant.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #161 on: May 9, 2014, 09:32:28 pm »
Are you saying we lost the lead because Rodgers took Sterling off?

No, I am not saying that.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #162 on: May 9, 2014, 09:41:12 pm »
You're assuming that the communication to Lucas was only about Lucas. It was just as likely (if not more so) that he used Lucas to communicate to the team. In which case, the same point still stands - you can only do and say so much from the sideline. In the end, the frenzy of the game makes players revert to type. The FA used to do a little experiment on the coaching courses way back when. They used to play a training game, but before the training game, they gave each player (and these were top professionals of the day) a fruit or vegetable to remember. Just one word - so one player might have to remember "apple", another might have to remember "carrot", etc. 20 minutes after the game started, all the players were called in, and asked to recite their fruit or vegetable they were given. There was a high failure rate. The point of the exercise was to show that the heat of battle makes players think only of what they've been trained to do, and to give extra information, even before a game, is to risk that information being discarded. The idea from the FA was that the majority of the work is done on the training ground, and players will play how they train under pressure. This is why Rafa rehearsed so many different ways of playing, and different formations - so that the players could slip easily from one mode into another. So no matter what Rodgers was trying to tell the players, they were always going to go into the all-out-attack mode that they've played and trained all season, once they were under psychological pressure.

[snip]

So as I said - he, among others, went off-script, and this allowed Palace in. It wasn't anything tactical, it was pure mentality and psychology. Hindsight being 20/20, the better decision might have been to take Gerrard off for Coutinho at 3-0 up, and put Lucas in his spot, and Aspas on for Sturridge to harass the Palace defenders up front. But hindsight is 20/20.

The reason I focused on Lucas was that we have video evidence of BR talking to him, in 'instruction-mode', and we have evidence, video and analytical, of what he did subsequent to those 'talkings-to'. We also have it as pretty much axiomatic that of all our current players, Lucas is the most likely to 'snap to' instructions, almost to a fault. So, no I did not assume that Lucas received instruction only pertaining to himself. I assumed he did indeed receive instructions pertaining to himself. And, I assumed he would be the one least likely to go off-script.

As for the second part all I had said was that it was not (i.e. it had not yet been) established. Despite BP's learned later retort, I think you offered enough evidence to support the plausibility of the idea that SG, among others, did go off-script.
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Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #163 on: May 9, 2014, 09:44:47 pm »
I am hoping you didn't think I was implying anything of the sort. I understand I overstated my case (it was before 8 am here when I did, so some excuse) but I also explained what I meant.

No, not at all. This just popped in my head when you said about "not seeing Rodgers trying to get instructions on the pitch"

I was interested in what PoP said about players having to remember a fruit after 20 minutes of play. I wonder if this is connected to the colours that all Chelsea players learn(ed) when Rodgers was a coach there from academy up to the first team. Then depending on the game state the players would be instructed on what to do by a colour instruction from the bench. It's an exceptionally simplified way of passing on detailed passing instructions and maybe also pressing their mental [F5] Buttons.

I think I read about it back in the old level 3 thread.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #164 on: May 9, 2014, 09:49:12 pm »
No, not at all. This just popped in my head when you said about "not seeing Rodgers trying to get instructions on the pitch"

I was interested in what PoP said about players having to remember a fruit after 20 minutes of play. I wonder if this is connected to the colours that all Chelsea players learn(ed) when Rodgers was a coach there from academy up to the first team. Then depending on the game state the players would be instructed on what to do by a colour instruction from the bench. It's an exceptionally simplified way of passing on detailed passing instructions and maybe also pressing their mental [F5] Buttons.

I think I read about it back in the old level 3 thread.

I got hold of some coaching notes from that period, that decoded the colour instructions according to game state:

Blue - play counter-attack, low block, rapid transition through the wings, push up 10 yards from the halfways line, but no further

If that wasn't working -

Red - cheat

If that wasn't working

Orange - cheat

If that wasn't working

Purple - smash every ball up to Huth in the box

It was a devastatingly simple system
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Offline ANFIELDGATES

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #165 on: May 9, 2014, 09:57:12 pm »
I got hold of some coaching notes from that period, that decoded the colour instructions according to game state:

Blue - play counter-attack, low block, rapid transition through the wings, push up 10 yards from the halfways line, but no further

If that wasn't working -

Red - cheat

If that wasn't working

Orange - cheat

If that wasn't working

Purple - smash every ball up to Huth in the box

It was a devastatingly simple system
lol...very funny,was waiting for someone to do that!!...a quick question PoP...do u think its time ww signed a "future captain" this summer or do you think we already have that in the form of hendo?..i know stevies our current captain but i never saw him as captain material rather a dynamic player who regardless of whether he was captain or not would still play the same way every game as hes a born winner but not neccessarily a born leader.

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #166 on: May 9, 2014, 09:59:34 pm »
I got hold of some coaching notes from that period, that decoded the colour instructions according to game state:

Blue - play counter-attack, low block, rapid transition through the wings, push up 10 yards from the halfways line, but no further

If that wasn't working -

Red - cheat

If that wasn't working

Orange - cheat

If that wasn't working

Purple - smash every ball up to Huth in the box

It was a devastatingly simple system

I'll make myself look a right dick here now, only realised it was a pisstake when I got to purple.
 :-[
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline wemmick

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #167 on: May 9, 2014, 10:06:50 pm »
3) Skrtel was left in a 1v2 situation. Sakho was marking nobody, and didn't drop in behind to sweep up the long ball or second ball, and he didn't compress into the middle to offer better cover. So once the long ball was played, Skrtel was left stranded (although there is a debate as to whether he should have went for the ball given the 1v2 situation in the first place - but he was placed under pressure and the back line wasn't organised enough to see the danger), and Sakho wasn't behind him to cover any flick on - as a result, Gayle had a huge amount of space to control the ball into and get a shot off

Please forgive my ignorance POP, but shouldn't Johnson have covered the flick-on since the initial pass was played from right to left across the field (from the passers point of view)? Skrtel's marker could have easily tried to exploit the space behind Sakho, so I assumed he needed to stay home until he gauged the trajectory of the pass. Even then, if he had tried to cover the flick-on he would have been running away from the ball looking over his shoulder. That's a slow way a run and judge the trajectory of a pass and, at least positionally, he would have been in trouble if Gayle got the flick-on. Sakho would have been running in the wrong direction at that point and Gayle could have easily moved from left to right (from his point of view) and bypassed Sakho completely.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Johnson to cover, then? Johnson was running in the right direction the whole time, and had the field of vision to see Skrtel's marker and Gayle at the very moment of the initial pass?   
« Last Edit: May 9, 2014, 10:12:21 pm by wemmick »

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #168 on: May 9, 2014, 10:10:56 pm »
PoP, why didn't anyone take Bolaise out, I can think of a fair few that would have, after that first burst of pace Mourinho would have definitely had someone do a number on him I'm sure.

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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #169 on: May 9, 2014, 10:11:57 pm »
PoP, why didn't anyone take Bolaise out, I can think of a fair few that would have, after that first burst of pace Mourinho would have definitely had someone do a number on him I'm sure.

Couldn't tell you. Self-preservation with a World Cup, perhaps? It was a clear chance for a tactical foul.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #170 on: May 9, 2014, 10:12:04 pm »
PoP, why didn't anyone take Bolaise out, I can think of a fair few that would have, after that first burst of pace Mourinho would have definitely had someone do a number on him I'm sure.



Coutinho tried but it was a piss poor attempt.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #171 on: May 9, 2014, 10:12:56 pm »
Please forgive my ignorance POP, but shouldn't Johnson have covered the flick-on since the initial pass was played from right to left across the field (from the passers point of view)? Skrtel's marker could have easily tried to exploit the space behind Sakho, so I that meant he needed to stay home until he gauged the trajectory of the pass. Even then, if he had tried to cover the flick-on he would have been running away from the ball looking over his shoulder. That's a slow way a run and judge the trajectory of a pass and, at least positionally, he would have been in trouble if Gayle got the flick-on. Sakho would have been running in the wrong direction at that point and Gayle could have easily moved from left to right (from his point of view) and bypassed Sakho completely.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Johnson to cover, then? Johnson was running in the right direction the whole time, and had the field of vision to see Skrtel's marker and Gayle at the very moment of the initial pass?

No. Cover should come from the middle first. Sakho was central, marking nobody. Johnson COULD have come into the middle, but it was really Sakho's job to do so. Lines of recovery are always towards the centre of the goal.
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #172 on: May 9, 2014, 10:15:40 pm »
Couldn't tell you. Self-preservation with a World Cup, perhaps? It was a clear chance for a tactical foul.

Coutinho tried but it was a piss poor attempt.

That was the obvious one with Phil, but he was obviously a threat, along with Gayle, yet none got 'the treatment'.

I'd like to think Carra would have intervened at some point.

And Phil would have already known he wasn't in the Brazil squad surely ?
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Offline wemmick

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #173 on: May 9, 2014, 10:17:26 pm »
No. Cover should come from the middle first. Sakho was central, marking nobody. Johnson COULD have come into the middle, but it was really Sakho's job to do so. Lines of recovery are always towards the centre of the goal.

I see. Thanks. Oh, and sorry for the typos. Trying to learn how to type on a tablet. Damn thing is doing my head in.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #174 on: May 9, 2014, 10:18:31 pm »
I got hold of some coaching notes from that period, that decoded the colour instructions according to game state:

Blue - play counter-attack, low block, rapid transition through the wings, push up 10 yards from the halfways line, but no further

If that wasn't working -

Red - cheat

If that wasn't working

Orange - cheat

If that wasn't working

Purple - smash every ball up to Huth in the box

It was a devastatingly simple system

:D Funny cos it's true!

Actually one of the colours, grey I believe, was to target a specific individual if he was about to lose his shit.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #175 on: May 9, 2014, 10:18:39 pm »
I see. Thanks. Oh, and sorry for the typos. Trying to learn how to type on a tablet. Damn thing is doing my head in.

Aren't tablets supposed to prevent headaches? :D
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #176 on: May 9, 2014, 10:19:19 pm »
No. Cover should come from the middle first. Sakho was central, marking nobody. Johnson COULD have come into the middle, but it was really Sakho's job to do so. Lines of recovery are always towards the centre of the goal.

Who should have been marking (or substitute appropriate term) the CPFC defender who released the long diagonal ball? Suarez? Coutinho?

« Last Edit: May 9, 2014, 10:24:47 pm by GrkStav »
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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #177 on: May 9, 2014, 10:22:20 pm »
Who should have been marking (or substitute appropriate term) the CPFC defender who released the long diagonal ball? Suarez? Coutinho?

Whoever was closest. He had the freedom of London to make that long pass, and when players have space and time to play, that is a clear visual trigger for the back our to drop and get tight.
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Offline wemmick

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #178 on: May 9, 2014, 10:23:39 pm »
Aren't tablets supposed to prevent headaches? :D

Not when you're allergic to technology!

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #179 on: May 9, 2014, 10:25:03 pm »
lol...very funny,was waiting for someone to do that!!...a quick question PoP...do u think its time ww signed a "future captain" this summer or do you think we already have that in the form of hendo?..i know stevies our current captain but i never saw him as captain material rather a dynamic player who regardless of whether he was captain or not would still play the same way every game as hes a born winner but not neccessarily a born leader.

I think Henderson has potential to be a captain, and a vocal one at that. Suarez does, too, but he's often off on his own travels. The one who could be a REAL future captain, though, is Flanagan. I'd say he's not afraid to put a few noses out of joint.
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Offline ANFIELDGATES

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #180 on: May 9, 2014, 10:29:08 pm »
I think Henderson has potential to be a captain, and a vocal one at that. Suarez does, too, but he's often off on his own travels. The one who could be a REAL future captain, though, is Flanagan. I'd say he's not afraid to put a few noses out of joint.
cheers for that,flanagan? thats an interesting one and certainly not one that id have thought of.yeah,henderson certainly has the look of a future leader and tbf,who would have thought that 12 mnths ago.

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #181 on: May 9, 2014, 10:49:15 pm »
Whoever was closest. He had the freedom of London to make that long pass, and when players have space and time to play, that is a clear visual trigger for the back our to drop and get tight.

So, I count 9 CPFC outfield players in frame, one's shadow indicates he's the left back.

Sakho, Gerrard and Coutinho (I think) are 'marking'/near basically no one. Suarez I am not sure.

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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #182 on: May 9, 2014, 10:59:21 pm »
So, I count 9 CPFC outfield players in frame, one's shadow indicates he's the left back.

Sakho, Gerrard and Coutinho (I think) are 'marking'/near basically no one. Suarez I am not sure.



Suarez was 6 yards away. He should/could have moved across into the line of the ball. He didn't have to get up close and personal, but at least make the Palace player think twice about the long ball, or not have a clear path to Gayle.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #183 on: May 9, 2014, 11:09:01 pm »
What's the view of Johnson's 'tweets' defending himself against criticism & referring to 'armchair critics'?  I thought he had a nightmare, beginning with the sitter he missed.  It all went downhill after that.  Although he should have got a pen.

But for me he was pish for all their goals.  You could maybe excuse him and say he was knackered for not closing down for the first.  I'd prefer to call him lazy.  But then he had a great chance to at least take the Palace winger out for the second and taken a yellow for the team.  Instead he made some sort of half hearted effort and swung his leg at the ball as the Palace player sprinted past him.  Then on the 3rd goal he was nowhere in terms of covering Skrtel's rush of blood.

Now with his tweets he's either defending himself, against the undefensible some may say, which is fair enough, it's everyone's right to defend themselves,  or he genuinely doesn't think he done anything wrong.  I think he assumes the latter, which is concerning for us.

Offline Goobs10

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #184 on: May 9, 2014, 11:10:34 pm »
Thank you for rescuing us from the depths of deadly and lamentable self-pity. The emotions are still raw. I reckon it'll take some time for us to get over this. The truth is: we lost the title at Anfield against the monied Russian triple-decker bus. And it was an unfortunate loss, nothing down to tactics or personnel. You can't legislate against a slip. It's that one game which we needed a bit of luck but alas, the rub of the green which has been present in our incredible 11-match winning run deserted us.

As painful as it is, I think the Palace match will serve to teach Rodgers an important lesson. Not in a negative vindictive way that Mancunians, the Russian Londoners (or even the perennial underachieving Spurs) and our bitter neighbours purport but in a way that is constructive and will hopefully serve Rodgers in his long term career as a Liverpool manager.

It's quite possible that we will be 'found out' next season, where teams will park the bus in the first half and hit us in the second half where we seem to have run out of steam this season. That's true but our manager is a smart man and he will adapt too. Well, he has. This season, we have been more direct and pragmatic. This goes to show he's willing to change things to win. What's important is to have a firm philosophy which can be filtered through the ranks. Not some wishy washy ideas and chopping and changing constantly.

If FFP rules were implemented to the fullest extent today, I'm sure we'd be in a very good shape. We have most of the key ingredients required to succeed. Now is not the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

You mentioned that you can't legislate for a slip but it wasn't the slip that caused that goal, it was Gerrard letting the pass from Sakho go under his foot and not controlling it.  The ball was gone as soon as he made that error.  The slip may have cost him the opportunity to get back and get a tackle in but if he had have controlled the pass in the first place, the goal would not have happened.
« Last Edit: May 9, 2014, 11:23:27 pm by Goobs10 »

Offline Garcepticon

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #185 on: May 9, 2014, 11:20:21 pm »
The one who could be a REAL future captain, though, is Flanagan. I'd say he's not afraid to put a few noses out of joint.

Nothing would be better.

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #186 on: May 9, 2014, 11:23:42 pm »
You mentioned that you can't legislate for a slip but it wasn't the slip that caused that goal, it was Gerrard letting the pass from Sakho go under his foot and not controlling it.  The slip may have cost Gerrard the opportunity to get back and get a tackle in but if he had have controlled the pass in the first place, the goal would not have happened.

Yeah but it was still a mistake that Chelsea or us wouldn't have planned for or expected.  Gerrard made a fatal mistake of looking up to where he was going to play the next pass instead of concentrating on the ball coming to him.  99 times out of 100 it doesn't happen.  And even if it did, when you look at it, if he hadn't slipped, he'd have still got to the ball before Ba.  C'est la vie.

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #187 on: May 9, 2014, 11:47:58 pm »
What's the view of Johnson's 'tweets' defending himself against criticism & referring to 'armchair critics'?  I thought he had a nightmare, beginning with the sitter he missed.  It all went downhill after that.  Although he should have got a pen.

But for me he was pish for all their goals.  You could maybe excuse him and say he was knackered for not closing down for the first.  I'd prefer to call him lazy.  But then he had a great chance to at least take the Palace winger out for the second and taken a yellow for the team.  Instead he made some sort of half hearted effort and swung his leg at the ball as the Palace player sprinted past him.  Then on the 3rd goal he was nowhere in terms of covering Skrtel's rush of blood.

Now with his tweets he's either defending himself, against the undefensible some may say, which is fair enough, it's everyone's right to defend themselves,  or he genuinely doesn't think he done anything wrong.  I think he assumes the latter, which is concerning for us.
Unfortunately he's been poor all season. It's annoying because his movement going forward and the timing of his runs CAN be really good. But he's had a very bizarre season - possibly the only player who has been consistently below his ability, maybe apart from Lucas. I can't remember him having a game where he's played at his best. His defending on all three goals was very, very poor. Towards the end of the game he wasn't even trying to put meaningful pressure on the ball (which is partly why I thought, and Rodgers seemed to admit after, that we should have brought on Agger and played five at the back to increase the cover along the backline). As you said, the second goal he either should have taken Bolasie out or backed off and tried to do more to delay the attack. I've no idea what he was trying to do there
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Offline Bergersrightwingviews

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #188 on: May 9, 2014, 11:56:40 pm »
I see. Thanks. Oh, and sorry for the typos. Trying to learn how to type on a tablet. Damn thing is doing my head in.

Amen to that. I have the same priblwm.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #189 on: May 10, 2014, 12:00:18 am »
Imagine if Johnson had been deployed as a center back upon returning from injury. Only then could one compare him to Lucas, imo.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #190 on: May 10, 2014, 12:02:37 am »
Unfortunately he's been poor all season. It's annoying because his movement going forward and the timing of his runs CAN be really good. But he's had a very bizarre season - possibly the only player who has been consistently below his ability, maybe apart from Lucas. I can't remember him having a game where he's played at his best. His defending on all three goals was very, very poor. Towards the end of the game he wasn't even trying to put meaningful pressure on the ball (which is partly why I thought, and Rodgers seemed to admit after, that we should have brought on Agger and played five at the back to increase the cover along the backline). As you said, the second goal he either should have taken Bolasie out or backed off and tried to do more to delay the attack. I've no idea what he was trying to do there

Would you bin him?  Or to be more 'acceptable' would you refuse him another contract?  Couple of years ago his attacking capabilities probably meant we lived with his poorish (but nowhere as poor as now) defending.  But things have changed now.  His incompetence at the back is now outweighing his usefulness at going forward.

His latest 'tweets' do him no favours.

I think he may be off in the Summer. 

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #191 on: May 10, 2014, 12:04:31 am »
Has Johnson declined ?

Or has he not improved at the rate the rest have ?

Not arguing with better students of the game than I, just something to think about though.
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Offline TSC

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #192 on: May 10, 2014, 12:06:35 am »
Has Johnson declined ?

Or has he not improved at the rate the rest have ?



Personally I think a bit of both.

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #193 on: May 10, 2014, 12:07:47 am »
Suarez was 6 yards away. He should/could have moved across into the line of the ball. He didn't have to get up close and personal, but at least make the Palace player think twice about the long ball, or not have a clear path to Gayle.

What strikes me from that picture is Palace have four attackers up against our back four, we then have four midfielders against two Palace players, note the gap between our MF and back four and then look at Moses. If he moves toward the middle then he would push Suarez (or Suarez would have moved to cover the ball as opposed to trying to cut out the square ball. Instead he looks like he is just walking back towards our goal effectively doing nothing. As he replaced Sturridge should he not have been more central.
One other point is Stevie's position. When Lucas plays DM i have seen many occasions where he reads where the long ball is heading and places himself in a position to either head the ball clear himself or intercept the ball or make it awkward for the forward behind him to get any sort of meaningful control which usually ends up with one of our defenders getting a chance to clear. I think that both Lucas and Stevie should have dropped back in front of the defense and left the wing backs to deal with the two palace midfielders. As mentioned previously I would probably have switched Stevie and Lucas at half time and given Lucas instructions to sit back and watch so we didn't get caught on the break
 

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #194 on: May 10, 2014, 12:12:12 am »
What strikes me from that picture is Palace have four attackers up against our back four, we then have four midfielders against two Palace players, note the gap between our MF and back four and then look at Moses. If he moves toward the middle then he would push Suarez (or Suarez would have moved to cover the ball as opposed to trying to cut out the square ball. Instead he looks like he is just walking back towards our goal effectively doing nothing. As he replaced Sturridge should he not have been more central.
One other point is Stevie's position. When Lucas plays DM i have seen many occasions where he reads where the long ball is heading and places himself in a position to either head the ball clear himself or intercept the ball or make it awkward for the forward behind him to get any sort of meaningful control which usually ends up with one of our defenders getting a chance to clear. I think that both Lucas and Stevie should have dropped back in front of the defense and left the wing backs to deal with the two palace midfielders. As mentioned previously I would probably have switched Stevie and Lucas at half time and given Lucas instructions to sit back and watch so we didn't get caught on the break
 

Most of Rodgers decisions have been excellent to be fair throughout the season.  The decision to bring on Moses who has looked as good as I would have done playing for Liverpool is strange to say the least.  And that 'tap in' miss at the death for him to grab some sort of goodwill back was embarrassing.  A mistake if ever there was one.

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #195 on: May 10, 2014, 12:12:16 am »
What strikes me from that picture is Palace have four attackers up against our back four, we then have four midfielders against two Palace players, note the gap between our MF and back four and then look at Moses. If he moves toward the middle then he would push Suarez (or Suarez would have moved to cover the ball as opposed to trying to cut out the square ball. Instead he looks like he is just walking back towards our goal effectively doing nothing. As he replaced Sturridge should he not have been more central.
One other point is Stevie's position. When Lucas plays DM i have seen many occasions where he reads where the long ball is heading and places himself in a position to either head the ball clear himself or intercept the ball or make it awkward for the forward behind him to get any sort of meaningful control which usually ends up with one of our defenders getting a chance to clear. I think that both Lucas and Stevie should have dropped back in front of the defense and left the wing backs to deal with the two palace midfielders. As mentioned previously I would probably have switched Stevie and Lucas at half time and given Lucas instructions to sit back and watch so we didn't get caught on the break

My thinking exactly.
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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #196 on: May 10, 2014, 12:13:14 am »
Imagine if Johnson had been deployed as a center back upon returning from injury. Only then could one compare him to Lucas, imo.
I think Lucas was playing relatively poorly at the end of last year before his knee injury

Would you bin him?  Or to be more 'acceptable' would you refuse him another contract?  Couple of years ago his attacking capabilities probably meant we lived with his poorish (but nowhere as poor as now) defending.  But things have changed now.  His incompetence at the back is now outweighing his usefulness at going forward.

His latest 'tweets' do him no favours.

I think he may be off in the Summer. 
It wouldn't surprise me if he was sold. With the way he's performing, he's not playing at all well enough for a new contract and it might be that we have to sell him this summer. The problem is that full back is a poor position for us at the moment. Selling him would mean we probably have to sign at least two full backs, instead of spending in more important positions. We could resign ourselves to him leaving on a free next summer and settle on buying one full back this summer and then concentrating on other positions. I'm inclined to sell him to be honest but it's not as easy as saying "he's had a poor season, let's get rid."
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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #197 on: May 10, 2014, 12:14:48 am »
Dude you are boring as hell, Lucas is playing box to box, a position he grew up playing - there is a huge difference playing right back and center back for a player who started out as a right winger.. Your blinkered approach to these tables are tedious, Lucas is finished as a player bar as backup to Gerrard, accept it have the cry wank holding his poster and let the rest of us enjoy the season.

Thank you for the feedback. A bit on the aggressive and personally abusive side, eh?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 12:30:22 am by GrkStav »
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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #198 on: May 10, 2014, 12:19:14 am »

It wouldn't surprise me if he was sold. With the way he's performing, he's not playing at all well enough for a new contract and it might be that we have to sell him this summer. The problem is that full back is a poor position for us at the moment. Selling him would mean we probably have to sign at least two full backs, instead of spending in more important positions. We could resign ourselves to him leaving on a free next summer and settle on buying one full back this summer and then concentrating on other positions. I'm inclined to sell him to be honest but it's not as easy as saying "he's had a poor season, let's get rid."

But then on the reverse, what do we gain by keeping him on?  He ain't gonna get better.  And he is weak defensively.  Hopefully it'll be addressed in the Summer.

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Re: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3
« Reply #199 on: May 10, 2014, 12:19:18 am »
Has Johnson declined ?

Or has he not improved at the rate the rest have ?

Not arguing with better students of the game than I, just something to think about though.

Johnson is a wonderful footballer mate and its likely BR is not going to improve him much as a defender while he's working on other young players, but also telling Glen where to position himself as an offensive player. And therein lyes the problem. Despite the disdain towards Glen after the match, he imo had a brilliant game until about the 70th minute when an over lap was on to create a really good chance and he just didn't have the legs. After that he struggled and BR perhaps should have changed it because Glen was spent by doing what BR asked.