Author Topic: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?  (Read 67438 times)

Offline kcbworth

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #200 on: November 18, 2014, 09:08:13 am »
Wages, we need to pay competitive wages.

What if we can't? Do we rant? Do we criticise? Or do we fight the inbalance in the competition? Or do we say, we will take prider in occasional success done the right way than we would in frequent fake success?

We are trying to copy the arsenal business plan, its not going to work.

...except for when it very nearly did last year?

That being said in general the wages paid are fucking disgusting.

They sure are. Fucking unfair league if I've ever seen one

Offline Cid

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #201 on: November 18, 2014, 09:12:42 am »
There's no weight in the claim that Rodgers didn't expect Suarez to stay.  Even if it were true it would make him a gullible tit with a massive lack of foresight.

Either the managers hands were tied by  a business model that forbids buying established players (after all, no profit that way) or he genuinely thought the players we did buy were up to the task.

This is not a situation where circumstance and miraculous events have conspired to damage our chances.  A player left who we all knew was leaving and we failed to rebuild our attack while spending 120m.

Someone is to blame.   It's a question of who.  The one 'achievement' of our transfer committee nonsense is that we fans are never quite sure who has fucked up.

Offline LiamG

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #202 on: November 18, 2014, 09:16:17 am »
comolli is a blind dickhead.

atletico are completely different from us.

they have an organised pressing system.
ours is just an idea

Not in the sense us and them both lost our best striker, only they replaced theirs seamlessly and we never

Offline jordyball10

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #203 on: November 18, 2014, 09:17:02 am »
We shouldn't have moved from the Sanchez deal imo, if Barca want Suarez they can only if Alexis comes the other way and we should have stuck to this. We gave in and were in a lose lose situation....... Last season we sold Carroll who is a target man and we all knew Rodgers didn't like this type of player so was it Rodgers who actually wanted Ballo to come or was it to make money on shirt sales etc?

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #204 on: November 18, 2014, 09:20:15 am »
He should have put his foot down with FSG and refused to sell Suarez without signing a good alternative first. If FSG refuses. then threaten to resign. FSG essentially rewarded him for misbehaviour because he always wanted to play for the top two in La Liga. This whole debacle is caused by FSG and Rodgers' failure of nerve.


Agree with this..although I dont think anything would've swayed FSG once they decided to sell....they spun the wheel the season before and decided it was time for Cash Out.....tell you one thing though, they must have been fuckin delighted when the 'biting' bullshit happened at the World Cup....gave them the green light they wanted..and kerching!.......a few floundering/desperate months on - with Suarez lean, fit and booted and with the WC incident now a forgotten memory - I wonder what the feeling is now at John Henry Towers?...
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Offline jordyball10

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #205 on: November 18, 2014, 09:22:05 am »
Agree with this..although I dont think anything would've swayed FSG once they decided to sell....they spun the wheel the season before and decided it was time for Cash Out.....tell you one thing though, they must have been fuckin delighted when the 'biting' bullshit happened at the World Cup....gave them the green light they wanted..and kerching!.......a few floundering/desperate months on - with Suarez lean, fit and booted and with the WC incident now a forgotten memory - I wonder what the feeling is now at John Henry Towers?...

Very true but would it have been forgotten if he was still at LFC, i doubt it

Offline redintweed

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #206 on: November 18, 2014, 09:23:49 am »
Wages, we need to pay competitive wages. We are trying to copy the arsenal business plan, its not going to work.

That being said in general the wages paid are fucking disgusting. Come the glorious day the agents will be first against the wall.

It's all well and good to say we need to compete on wages, but when it is 100 quid to get into Anfield, don't complain. I agree, modern footballers earn obscene amounts of money. But while clubs keep paying up, agents will keep demanding it. I seriously don't think FFP will do fuck all. It will only strengthen the grip the top clubs have in each league.

If you want the best players you have to pay them accordingly. We need to get much, much better in unearthing the hidden gems. Kind of hard when every other club is trying to do the same though. It is a catch 22 to be honest. Plenty of clubs have gone tits up trying to compete at the top and I seriously can't see FSG pumping in 100's of millions. So either the scouts pick their game up or we will always do nothing but battle for 3rd and 4th spot every season. Some of our buys over the history of the Premier League have been atrocious. I can't honestly think of a club that has burnt more coin on ordinary players than us. And god it hurts to say that!

But I still have faith that BR and FSG will get us very near to the top. It's not impossible as Rafa proved at Valencia and Atletico Madrid did last year. We just need to be much smarter.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 09:28:06 am by redintweed »
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #207 on: November 18, 2014, 09:26:43 am »
It's all well and good saying we should have put our foot down and said no. But he signed a new contract at Christmas, or there abouts. That contract would no doubt have had certain clause that render us powerless to stop us preventing him moving should they be met.
If we didn't agree to them at the time we should have told him to fuck off, but then he runs the old one down and we lose him for fuck all in 18 months. There's no way a business man is going to let that happen.

"I want a contract that gives me an escape route should a Champions League club bid for me"

"Ok, but we set the buyout at 75m."

"Fair enough"

As soon as the bid of 75m comes in it's out of our hands. Even trying to include Sanchez. After the Arsenal debacle it was always going to be a contract that included was void of ambiguity.

The fuck up wasn't selling him, the fuck up was replacing him with Balotelli.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #208 on: November 18, 2014, 09:26:57 am »
. Even after finishing 2 I'd put us 5th at best in the Premiership for attracting top level players.


Just to be absolutely clear on this one S.

I agree about the probable 5th place when all criteria are applied.

However, I am a stickler for accurate representation of any situation and I'd always stick a rider on to any such assertion which is the lens through which I see things and enables me to sleep at night.

1. In terms of what used to be "decent ordinary human beings who excelled at footy" we would be way way ahead of the pack alongside Manchester United

2. Arsenal would then be third in line

3. Languishing way way back and able to attact only soulless mercenary c*nts would be Chelsea and City.

 ;D

Offline Cid

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #209 on: November 18, 2014, 09:31:15 am »
Agree with this..although I dont think anything would've swayed FSG once they decided to sell....they spun the wheel the season before and decided it was time for Cash Out.....tell you one thing though, they must have been fuckin delighted when the 'biting' bullshit happened at the World Cup....gave them the green light they wanted..and kerching!.......a few floundering/desperate months on - with Suarez lean, fit and booted and with the WC incident now a forgotten memory - I wonder what the feeling is now at John Henry Towers?...

Well we spent more than the Suarez fee in the end so doubt they're too happy either.

Maybe they're banking on markovic, balo or the Spanish fullbacks making massive returns a few years down the line.

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #210 on: November 18, 2014, 09:35:06 am »
Just to be absolutely clear on this one S.

I agree about the probable 5th place when all criteria are applied.

However, I am a stickler for accurate representation of any situation and I'd always stick a rider on to any such assertion which is the lens through which I see things and enables me to sleep at night.

1. In terms of what used to be "decent ordinary human beings who excelled at footy" we would be way way ahead of the pack alongside Manchester United

2. Arsenal would then be third in line

3. Languishing way way back and able to attact only soulless mercenary c*nts would be Chelsea and City.

 ;D

You're right TG, I should have quantified my statement. It doesn't alter the fact that there are 4 teams minimum that pay more than we do. 3 of them can pretty much ask the potential recruit "How much do you want?"

It's our 1st season back in the CL, and we've just sold our best player. Add into the mix that we appear to be located in an area that most think is behind Mars in terms of locations these players strive for and we move further down the list.

I think the wages are the biggest issue, whilst I agree the structure of earning up and comers with a tiered system is definitely the way to go, a player that has proved himself elsewhere in Europe will not come and do it again, especially if one of our competitors is offering a basic salary that he'd only meet here by scoring goals and winning trophies.

And to be fair, why would he ?
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #211 on: November 18, 2014, 09:44:03 am »
The fuck up wasn't selling him, the fuck up was replacing him with Balotelli.

Amen to that.

Offline paulrazor

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #212 on: November 18, 2014, 10:37:08 am »
there is no quick answer really

1. We have a defence that seems to get progressively worse despite significant reinvestment. It is prone to a lot of individual mistakes.

2. Seems to be a lack of confidence in the team

3. Possible hangover from last season? it wasnt the first title race we were in since 1990 but it was our best chance and we had it in our own hands plus excuse the pun let it slip.... maybe some players just havent got over that?

4. a lot of players have come in. its difficult to integrate so many players into the team. its easy to say that we should have just bought someone like Benzema but we did need a bigger squad to cope with extra games. We had injuries last year (we had only 15 or 16 fit players over christmas) so we needed a bigger squad for that, also the squad lacked depth in talent. last season when we looked on the bench when in need of a  game changer, quite often the options were a choice between Victor Moses and Iago Aspas.

We needed to beef up the squad and add some real quality, but buying 8-10 players will mean a mix. Some wont settle, some wont be good enough and some hit the ground running.

5. seems to be a lack of flexibility within our system maybe caused by injuries. it is clear Mario Balotelli cant play upfront on his own, the only options for the last two months alongside him are willing worker in Borini, a player that we tried to move out all summer, and Ricky Lambert who is so far falling into the not good enough category.

6. Luis Suarez- or the lack of one. enough said

7. injuries. the reason some new players havent settled are injuries. Adam Lallana missed the start injured and it isnt easy when you join a new team and miss the start of the season injured. he did miss a chunk of pre season and its hard to play catch up and integrate into a new team when watching from a physio room. Lazar Markovic is another in the same boat but while we have seen flashes of what Lallana can do, Markovic hasnt impressed. Like Lallana, we have seen what Emre Can can do but he again was injured just as he was settling in.

for a different reason injuries effected Mario Balotelli, i argued earlier he cant play up top on his own. and he wouldnt have had to if Daniel Sturridge was fit, surely Brendan Rodgers had some sort of belief this was a partnership that would work otherwise he wouldnt have signed him. It is a partnership that, because of an injury to Sturridge, is roughly 60-65 minutes old.

8: under performance. some players have simply not been what we expected this season. Steven Gerrard cant be relied on to drag us out of a hole every time. a 34 year old that has played nearly 700 games cannot be expected to play 3 times a week. how much has that slip effected him? Does he think he blew his one big chance? Yes we wouldnt have been in that position in May if it wasnt for him but undoubtedly its something thats haunted him.  how much has it effected him? how much has all the years of rescuing us taken out of him? perhaps having to go to a world cup in the summer effected him considering that eats into your summer break. It is time to phase him out. he still has plenty to offer dont get me wrong and he is the best Liverpool player i have ever seen but it is time he is phased out of the team for his and the clubs sake.

glen Johnson has been on a slippery slope for some time, Jordan Henderson is a player we havent seen the best of in recent weeks, same might also be said of Raheem Sterling. at the opposite end of the Gerrard scale, Sterling is 19. he hasnt missed a game for us in nearly a year. burn out is one thing that we cannot afford with a kid of this talent. Remember Michael Owen? burned out by his mid 20s.

of the new signings Lambert, Balotelli, Lovren and Markovic have disappointed. there are too many players having a rough time for the team to play well and progress. You can get away with one maybe two poor performers in the 11, but not 5 or 6

yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #213 on: November 18, 2014, 11:36:58 am »
I am sure most of the issues have been pointed out so next step is fixed the damn thing and quickly.

Wages - Honestly I don't want to be paying 200k a week wages to most of our first team players. There might be consequences to that but fuck me if we can get a squad together than can challenge most years on a higher road philosophy and bring home a cup every 2 years / a title every 10 years then I be happy at that. There is a right way in doing things and if we set out for a quick fix then you will have a shell of a club standing on very questionable financial legs as we just cant afford City's set up without selling the soul.  Do it the right way and you never know you might have a team here that grow together willing to fight for each other. That is the backbone to the next dynasty.

Give Brendan all the backing he requires as if we at least give it everything there will be no regrets or what ifs

Enjoy our football again. My god the team and the fans look like they are so hungover from last season that we have lost track of our goals. Its history, move on and suck it up. Stick your head ou the window and scream your frustrations but once in the office get your head down and work for / support the club you love.
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Offline jordyball10

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #214 on: November 18, 2014, 11:58:02 am »
I am sure most of the issues have been pointed out so next step is fixed the damn thing and quickly.

Wages - Honestly I don't want to be paying 200k a week wages to most of our first team players. There might be consequences to that but fuck me if we can get a squad together than can challenge most years on a higher road philosophy and bring home a cup every 2 years / a title every 10 years then I be happy at that. There is a right way in doing things and if we set out for a quick fix then you will have a shell of a club standing on very questionable financial legs as we just cant afford City's set up without selling the soul.  Do it the right way and you never know you might have a team here that grow together willing to fight for each other. That is the backbone to the next dynasty.

Give Brendan all the backing he requires as if we at least give it everything there will be no regrets or what ifs

Enjoy our football again. My god the team and the fans look like they are so hungover from last season that we have lost track of our goals. Its history, move on and suck it up. Stick your head ou the window and scream your frustrations but once in the office get your head down and work for / support the club you love.

Yes whatever will be will be and i think we all need to get behind the team and manager no matter how we perform. Take the pressure off the lads and watch the 3 points start rolling in..... we will only get better this season and no matter where we finish this season.... next season will be our year  ;D ;D ;D

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #215 on: November 18, 2014, 12:00:18 pm »
I am sure most of the issues have been pointed out so next step is fixed the damn thing and quickly.

Wages - Honestly I don't want to be paying 200k a week wages to most of our first team players. There might be consequences to that but fuck me if we can get a squad together than can challenge most years on a higher road philosophy and bring home a cup every 2 years / a title every 10 years then I be happy at that. There is a right way in doing things and if we set out for a quick fix then you will have a shell of a club standing on very questionable financial legs as we just cant afford City's set up without selling the soul.  Do it the right way and you never know you might have a team here that grow together willing to fight for each other. That is the backbone to the next dynasty.

Give Brendan all the backing he requires as if we at least give it everything there will be no regrets or what ifs

Enjoy our football again. My god the team and the fans look like they are so hungover from last season that we have lost track of our goals. Its history, move on and suck it up. Stick your head ou the window and scream your frustrations but once in the office get your head down and work for / support the club you love.

I'm more than happy for us to be like this.

However, if we can't compete with the big hitters on a financial level then I just hop FSG don't expect us to do so on the pitch. I'd hate to think the owners were insisting on top 4 on the pitch, if we're only willing to buy Europa Level players, and pay Europa level wages.

What Brendan has to do is make sure we maintain our top 5/6 level status with a cup, and CL spot every couple of years.

There's a weight of expectation that weighs heavy on the club, but if the owners aren't willing/cannot fund a genuine push for the upper echelons then as a fan base we have to understand that.

But don't tell us we can compete with 'anyone' then not release the funds to do so. Because that is what gets everyone's back up, and causes unrest amongst us.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #216 on: November 18, 2014, 12:13:37 pm »
August 31st 2014 - White hart lane

Spurs 0 - Liverpool [with pacy mobile striker] 3



August 31st 2014 - to date

Liverpool without pacy mobile striker ie an attacking outlet worthy of the fucking name = utter fucking shite



Novermber 23rd 2014  - Sehurst Park

Liverpool with pacy mobile striker attacking outlet worthy of the fucking name restored to team = normal service resumed.


Simple as that.


FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK our transfer committee or whoever the fuck it was responsible for the fucking shambles in the summer of not bringing in a replacement/stand-by attacking outlet

 :)


PS Just drove up West derby Road and Mill lane with Ian Ayre behind me in his snazzy black sporty number [Aston Martin? fuck knows i don't].  Almost got out at the Queeens Drive lights to ask him the question but lights never gave me the time.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 12:18:31 pm by Timbo's Goals »

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #217 on: November 18, 2014, 12:37:44 pm »
PS Just drove up West derby Road and Mill lane with Ian Ayre behind me in his snazzy black sporty number [Aston Martin? fuck knows i don't].  Almost got out at the Queeens Drive lights to ask him the question but lights never gave me the time.

Missed an opportunity there matey.

You could have said he was in starbucks and you got chatting.

You could have made all sorts up and put this thread to bed permanently.

 ;D
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #218 on: November 18, 2014, 01:14:32 pm »
We showed ourselves last season that while you have quality up front, you're in with a chance. We didn't come close to replacing that quality.

We also know Sturridge's fitness cannot be relied upon, which made it even more important to push the boat out that bit more and secure a quality forward.

Offline the good half

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #219 on: November 18, 2014, 01:21:53 pm »
The more I think about it the more I would like to see Borini given a shot at the 'Suarez' role.
You know he wants to prove himself. You know he'll get about and shut down. You know he's gonna give his all.
You know he's not as good as Suarez but there's only about 3 folk who are.

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #220 on: November 18, 2014, 01:29:19 pm »
Wenger was into Sanchez even before the WC started...a little bit of flirting and foreplay...

Some disturbing images being conjured there... :P
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #221 on: November 18, 2014, 01:29:25 pm »
Guess in many ways the club is going through the same things we have gone through ourselves the past ten years or so where all of a sudden we wanted what the haves had, so went out & mortgaged ourselves to the hilt and today we are crying ourselves to sleep wondering can I get the kid his 500 quid IPhone this Christmas? Why cant we have our 45m striker on 250k wages? Surely we can attract the 30m defenders from god knows who? We don't have the cash reserves but hey that should not stop us getting what others have. It can be all paid off when we win the CL or league title every 2nd year or qualify for CL ten years running. Oh you mean spending money does not equate to sure results...feck me I never thought that would happen as I ignore the bank calling again.

25 years and counting.Nno big deal if we win the title now or in ten years. Yeah I can live with SG never winning the title as long as the club is still in a good running nick for the sons, grandsons to support. Time to chill the xxxx out as ten games in & the rumours of managers under pressure after a glorious season should have Bill & Bob rolling in their graves and our own grandfathers ready to clip us one so we can get a grip. So what the neighbours have their Ferraris all shiny bought by the Emirates, give me a classic car any day of the week as it was good enough for Dad its fecking good enough for me.
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #222 on: November 18, 2014, 01:31:18 pm »
Some disturbing images being conjured there... :P

Put Astral Weeks on sam - to take your mind off it.

 ;D

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #223 on: November 18, 2014, 01:34:26 pm »
Missed an opportunity there matey.

You could have said he was in starbucks and you got chatting.

You could have made all sorts up and put this thread to bed permanently.

 ;D

 :)


Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #224 on: November 18, 2014, 01:37:43 pm »
The more I think about it the more I would like to see Borini given a shot at the 'Suarez' role.
You know he wants to prove himself. You know he'll get about and shut down. You know he's gonna give his all.
You know he's not as good as Suarez but there's only about 3 folk who are.

Stop thinking!  ;D
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Offline N0rnIr0nRed

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #225 on: November 18, 2014, 01:43:16 pm »
People complaining about the wages issue is a non-starter for me.

We tend to go and buy players with PL experience. By that logic wages are gonna have to be big.

What annoys me is how well teams like West Ham and Southampton have picked up quality players that no one has heard of before.

If we were signing that type of player we wouldn't have to be starting them on ludicrous wages.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #226 on: November 18, 2014, 01:48:11 pm »
well in my opinion what's gone wrong here and in the sport in general is a mixture of the list below .

1 Not enough points gained as some ultras in here expected.

2 No matter how much you tell people it was impossible to replace Suarez like for like people are still trying to score points by placing any new signing against him to make their weak argument appear stronger.

3 We need a proper DM to help the beleaguered defence out, right now they are being hung out to dry by this formation and selection of players.

4 We have lost in reality two world class forwards and we have a number of players who took part in the WC looking fatigued and off form, something that all the top clubs except Chelsea seem to be suffering with.

5 Lack of confidence in the club from the top to the worst fan in here. No trust, No belief , No Patience on and off the pitch.

6 A large group of players struggling to settle in with too many fans not giving them a chance to do it.

7 Premature  Expectation

8 The Gerrard Enigma

9 Modern day fan mindsets with no sense of logical thinking.

10 Forums feeding the media who in turn feed the forums again, the latest crap being Rafa coming back in here from the Mirror.

11 Fairweather Support for the team and manager which applies only if they win for you.

12 Football itself is all Money, Gossip, Greed, and Lies, it is eating itself

13 Owners of the club not caring about local public opinion it now a global monster that they seem to think doesn't need any respect for local support.

14 Everybody these days thinks they know what goes on within a club and that they could manage the club.

15 The players and the game is now disengaged from the fans, and the core of the traditional supporters who have been driven out by escalating ticket prices,  it has gone from a working class enjoyment on a saturday afternoon, to a middle and upper class weekend event to got to like a ticket to a west end show, the ground is full of people viewing the spectacle rather than supporting the team.

Frankly right now the game itself is fucked and that is a bigger problem than us not starting the season as well as some hoped.

A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #227 on: November 18, 2014, 01:59:25 pm »
He should have put his foot down with FSG and refused to sell Suarez without signing a good alternative first. If FSG refuses. then threaten to resign. FSG essentially rewarded him for misbehaviour because he always wanted to play for the top two in La Liga. This whole debacle is caused by FSG and Rodgers' failure of nerve.

I really don't see the issue with Suarez' transfer. When he was given a new contract, we inserted a release clause. To my understanding, Barca met that clause. We got what we wanted. They got what they wanted. Suarez got his wish. I don't see how we could have handled things in any other way regarding that transfer.

How we replaced him is the real issue. I think we had the only realistic approach. But for one reason or the other, we haven't managed to keep our level of performance as high as we've needed. 

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Offline Chris~

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #228 on: November 18, 2014, 02:21:01 pm »
Brendan said he wanted a couple of boss players than many average ones. Atletico lost a couple of top players and brought in a couple. That's what Brendan said he wanted to do. Instead we brought in alot of average.
They did what we did, they bought 10 players in the summer spreading out the cost. I have no idea where you got the idea that they only brought in a couple players.

Offline McMahon

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #229 on: November 18, 2014, 02:23:07 pm »
I really don't see the issue with Suarez' transfer. When he was given a new contract, we inserted a release clause. To my understanding, Barca met that clause. We got what we wanted. They got what they wanted. Suarez got his wish. I don't see how we could have handled things in any other way regarding that transfer.

How we replaced him is the real issue. I think we had the only realistic approach. But for one reason or the other, we haven't managed to keep our level of performance as high as we've needed. 

i believe the choice was either replace him or strengthen the squad. The later was taken. Poor business in my eyes regardless who is responsible.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #230 on: November 18, 2014, 02:29:01 pm »
well in my opinion what's gone wrong here and in the sport in general is a mixture of the list below .

1 Not enough points gained as some ultras in here expected.

2 No matter how much you tell people it was impossible to replace Suarez like for like people are still trying to score points by placing any new signing against him to make their weak argument appear stronger.

3 We need a proper DM to help the beleaguered defence out, right now they are being hung out to dry by this formation and selection of players.

4 We have lost in reality two world class forwards and we have a number of players who took part in the WC looking fatigued and off form, something that all the top clubs except Chelsea seem to be suffering with.

5 Lack of confidence in the club from the top to the worst fan in here. No trust, No belief , No Patience on and off the pitch.

6 A large group of players struggling to settle in with too many fans not giving them a chance to do it.

7 Premature  Ejaculation

8 The Gerrard Enigma

9 Modern day fan mindsets with no sense of logical thinking.

10 Forums feeding the media who in turn feed the forums again, the latest crap being Rafa coming back in here from the Mirror.

11 Fairweather Support for the team and manager which applies only if they win for you.

12 Football itself is all Money, Gossip, Greed, and Lies, it is eating itself

13 Owners of the club not caring about local public opinion it now a global monster that they seem to think doesn't need any respect for local support.

14 Everybody these days thinks they know what goes on within a club and that they could manage the club.

15 The players and the game is now disengaged from the fans, and the core of the traditional supporters who have been driven out by escalating ticket prices,  it has gone from a working class enjoyment on a saturday afternoon, to a middle and upper class weekend event to got to like a ticket to a west end show, the ground is full of people viewing the spectacle rather than supporting the team.

Frankly right now the game itself is fucked and that is a bigger problem than us not starting the season as well as some hoped.



I see where you're coming from geoff - just a bit puzzled where point 7 fits in.

 :o

Offline Weby72.

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #231 on: November 18, 2014, 02:35:41 pm »
What is going/has gone wrong?

1) We didn't replace the fulcrum of our attack with a player who offered similar qualities (skilful with the ball, goal threat, works hard off the ball & closing down). I know there's not another Luis out there, but we needed to replace him with as little disruption to our general gameplan as possible. When we failed to get Sanchez, we just seemed to give up this type of player. I don't profess to have the wide knowledge of European players that many on here certainly do, but there were names touted that made a lot of sense. Yet we ended up signing a player notorious for being a bit lethargic, not much of a team player, and prone to sulks.

2) Rodgers has been too rigid in his tactics. Whilst sticking to one's beliefs can be admirable, there's a fine line until that becomes counter-productive. To some extent, his hands have been tied by injury (primarily to Sturridge), and he's tried to give players like Lovren the time to build a partnership and recapture some of the form he showed to Soton last season. But in other instances he's shown almost a pig-headed refusal to rectify what almost everyone else can see is not working. Ballotelli has looked dog-poor up front alone, but better when partnered with another striker (including the industrious Borini), yet he's persisted in playing Balotelli up front alone in the league. Opponents seemed to figure out Gerrard's shortcomings in the 'quarterback' role; Rodgers persisted with this tactic. We've seen Henderson's form deteriorate, but he's still been picked week in week out. Overall, the team is performing poorly & looking increasingly lacking in confidence; but the overall shape of the team (and I acknowledge certain parts have been adjusted) has remained stubbornly samey.

How do we remedy?

We need to bring in a tricky, quick, hardworking striker in January. I'd hoped at one point we could bring Reus in, but that's delusional with some of the mega-paying/plastic clubs after him (and why would he come to a team struggling for form & results, in real danger of missing out on ECL football next year?). We're going to have to be imaginative - and indeed more generous than we'd need to be if we were sitting comfortably in the top 4 right now.

And Rodgers needs to accept to himself that he's not the messiah/a football genius, and learn to be humble enough to know, when necessary, when he's not got it right, and make changes to his tactics accordingly.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #232 on: November 18, 2014, 02:49:27 pm »
I see where you're coming from geoff - just a bit puzzled where point 7 fits in.

 :o

nice edit Timbo lad
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Offline jordyball10

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #233 on: November 18, 2014, 03:07:27 pm »
Are Dortmund and LFC both having the same problems? How can two teams who played the best football in Europe last season not be performing?

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #234 on: November 18, 2014, 03:07:58 pm »
Came across this about Standard Chartered --- Heterodox economist and former prosecutor during the S&L Crisis here in the states has written an article about our sponsors.  Something to consider in light of Timbo's and Geoff's most recent threads on management:

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/11/standard-chartered-outraged-treated-like-criminal-criminal-acts.html
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Offline stockdam

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #235 on: November 18, 2014, 03:15:26 pm »
We aren't in a position to compete against Chelsea, Man City and Utd for wages. We'll have to accept that in general we will be behind these teams. All can buy big and afford to offload them quickly whereas if we buy poorly then we're stuck with the players or are forced to raise money in transfers before buying.

We are better off though than Southampton or West Ham who have struck gold this season but in the long term these two clubs will not maintain a top 6 position.

Unfortunately the need to try to compete with the big spenders will put a lot of stress on the club and that will probably hike up ticket prices. It's becoming a sport for the rich to run and the rich to watch. My fear is that one very bad spell could be the ruin of Liverpool just like it was for Leeds.
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Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #236 on: November 18, 2014, 03:53:46 pm »
Put Astral Weeks on sam - to take your mind off it.

 ;D

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Offline MTred406

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #237 on: November 18, 2014, 05:20:18 pm »
Do you not count Chelsea as a rival?

Meant more in terms of rivals for the champions league places this year although my comment didn't reflect that.  If our new players can settle a bit while finding some form and Sturridge gets and stays fit for awhile, then we will certainly be competing for a champions league spot this Spring.  While at the moment Chelsea look long gone, they are certainly our rivals and there is plenty of time for things to go wrong for them as well.  Despite everything that has happened, we are in striking distance of everyone except for Chelsea at the moment and there are still 81 points up for grabs so lets see what happens get behind Brendan and see if he's as good a manager as he looked last year. 

Offline Number 7

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #238 on: November 18, 2014, 05:49:23 pm »
He should have put his foot down with FSG and refused to sell Suarez without signing a good alternative first. If FSG refuses. then threaten to resign. FSG essentially rewarded him for misbehaviour because he always wanted to play for the top two in La Liga. This whole debacle is caused by FSG and Rodgers' failure of nerve.

Is that the subjective talking inside you or the objective?

He was always going to go. FSG dug their heels in and refused last summer, but there is only so much you can hold on to. If Rodgers threatens to resign he is basically putting one player before the club. FSG didn't cause any debacle around Suarez, he went for the same reasons as Alonso and Mascherano did.

What the club and transfer committee is at fault for is not having a proper contingency plan in place for his eventual departure, and we ended up with Lambert and Balotelli. 2 players that went against the style of play that made the team so successful last season. Sturridge got injured, and since the beginning of the season not ONE league goal has been scored between Lambert, Balotelli and Borini. Not one! That's a big part of the problem right there.
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Offline ReeNah

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Re: Just what is going wrong at Liverpool?
« Reply #239 on: November 18, 2014, 11:45:51 pm »
In our system Remy would have fit in much better...
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