Topic: The Attack

[Bunter]

On Markovic, yes we have payed for potential and are hoping to have a really top player on our hands, but it's worrying how low his confidence actually is that he can't even give us glimpses of what he's about.

You look at the young top players in the world and the ability always comes through and one thing they don't lack is the confidence in their ability, we haven't seen that with Markovic yet, a player supposedly highly regarded around Europe.

[peachybum]

Given he's played the vast majority of his games for both us and Sunderland on the wing, and he did score goals for Swansea and Roma when playing through the middle, I don't think there's any real proof that he wouldn't do anything threatening if played through the middle.

He played on the right for Roma i believe. He can be effective from that position as we saw last night. Like a handsome Dirk Kuyt. Right now i'd have him in a wide forward role ahead of Markovic.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

he's not offering anything that someone like Moses couldn't.

Ouch!

As everyone says, it's early days. But he was someone I was really excited about and I'm impatient At least we know he has the potential. Hopefully we get a home draw and not City/Chelsea in the next round of the cup for him to have another crack. Can't see him usurping Lallana's spot in the league games.

[Kopenhagen]

It's early days but he's not offering anything that someone like Moses couldn't.

I sort of agree but Moses very rarely put a shift in for us. At least with Borini you know he'll try his best.

Does he have the requisite quality to feature regularly in a side pushing for CL? Doubtful. Bench? Yes.

[ocecynwa]

Would you start Balotelli? Or Lambert? They haven't done any more???

At least Balotelli has proven over the years he'll score goals. Buying Lambert was a strange one for me. I'm assuming he was told that he was going to be a squad player more than an every game starter, problem is he doesn't really have the attributes to be an impact player of the bench when we're chasing the game. Unless we start flinging in crosses to him he'll continue to struggle.

[kevin87]

To clarify, what I mean is he has to show something regarding his quality. It's early days and he's not going to look a £20m player at least yet but he needs to show glimpses. Henderson is a fair comparison and he did have his good games in his first season where he showed promise and did good things. It's important Markovic shows something.

I think he has shown a bit actually. I think people just have no idea what type of player he actually is.  He is not a bloke to just burn past 3 players and whip in a cross, he is a player that has very good vision and fits into the one touch passing and moving system we play.

I also dint think he was that bad against Swansea. Sure he played it safe but thats probably expected from him early on, he played some really nice passes from that left hand side.


I am in no way worried about Markovic, think he will be one to really start hitting his straps round Christmas or in the new year, which is probably what the coaching staff expect from a 20 Year old anyway

[Adeemo]

I also dint think he was that bad against Swansea. Sure he played it safe but thats probably expected from him early on, he played some really nice passes from that left hand side.

Also, to me it was a big positive to see him attempt that 1st time effort with his weaker left foot, a player short on confidence would have tried to bring it back onto his right. Yeah he screwed it badly wide but at least he tried to do the correct thing.

[MrRaptorTurtle]

Also, to me it was a big positive to see him attempt that 1st time effort with his weaker left foot, a player short on confidence would have tried to bring it back onto his right. Yeah he screwed it badly wide but at least he tried to do the correct thing.

He seemed to actually run with the ball at the defenders a few times yesterday too and he done it well, just needs a bit more of a run in the team and some confidence!

[joezydudek]

He played on the right for Roma i believe. He can be effective from that position as we saw last night. Like a handsome Dirk Kuyt. Right now i'd have him in a wide forward role ahead of Markovic.

I thought he played up front more often than on the right for Roma, but I'd be lying if I said I'd watched him regularly there though so I'll bow down to your supreior knowledge there. Agree with the rest, he can certainly do a job there, perhaps not on a weekly basis, but I certainly think he has his uses within the squad now he's decided to stay.
As for Markovic, he seems absolutely terrified at the moment, but I'm sure he has the talent, I saw enough the couple of times I saw him for Benfica and in his cameo against Man City to see that.

[Mutton Geoff]

without doubt.

borini reminds of Kuyt,a lot.

well for me thats a good thing he was a great servant for this club and scored many important goals!

[theMilkman]

I seem to be in a small minority, but i actually thought markovic played some of his best football on tuesday. Of course he could've done so much more with the ball, but it was definitely an improvement over his other performances. Her made better runs, even if they were mostly in front of the defence as passed to getting behind it, his passing was much improved in that he barely misplaced it and i don't remember any particularly bad touches. He looked timid but he was useful, and iactually think we played better with him than we did when lallana came on. Truly believe he'll get there, just it will probably take the course of the season for him to do it. Let's not forget, he only scored 7 goals in 44 for benfica last season.

I'm No expert on footballing investments, but in the financial world a lot of the time the 'potential' of an asset gets built into its price. With regards to lazar he's got the basic attributes that you would look for in the best footballers on the planet - great speed, good movement and fantastic technique - and that would be why he cost 20mil despite having only scored 7 goals. A Brazilian with those characteristics having played for benfica would've cost 35mil. But he's not going to get 44 appearances for us this season and given the bedding in time he's probably going to look worse than 7/44 goal a game player, who gets less than 44 game to show it. I personally think he needs to get used to having the ball more during games and good movement around him and when that happens we'll see him start hitting form.

Also one of the biggest criticisms of him was that he used his right foot way too much, in that he seemed to go entire matches without touching the ball with his left foot. It's obvious he's trying to correct that as we saw with that left-footed shot he shanked towards the corner flag, which I'm quite happy to give him extra time for.

[kevin87]

Our attack....

I believe relies on Coutinho and Sterling, playing together



So what are peoples thoughts of playing a front 3 of ....

Balotelli   Lambert   Sterling

or

sterling    Balotelli   Borini


with a midfield of

               Coutinho

  Henderson
                        Gerrard.

I just feel this formation suits us way more than the 4321 we play with a very isolated striker. Sterling and Coutinho playing together is our best attacking threat i feel as we create so many more clear cut chances for our strikers when those 2 are on the field together. Their energy and pressing gives time to both our forwards and defence and allows us to play a higher line

putting Balotelli on the left gives him that bit more freedom to roam, Or if we play him centrally with Borini on the right it allows the excellent movement of Borini to fill the space that Balotelli leaves when he wanders around.

[The 5th Benitle]

I sort of agree but Moses very rarely put a shift in for us. At least with Borini you know he'll try his best.

Does he have the requisite quality to feature regularly in a side pushing for CL? Doubtful. Bench? Yes.

I'm not sure what you're sort of agreeing with as that comment was about Markovic not Borini!

[DanA]

Our attack....

I believe relies on Coutinho and Sterling, playing together



So what are peoples thoughts of playing a front 3 of ....

Balotelli   Lambert   Sterling

or

sterling    Balotelli   Borini


with a midfield of

               Coutinho

  Henderson
                        Gerrard.

I just feel this formation suits us way more than the 4321 we play with a very isolated striker. Sterling and Coutinho playing together is our best attacking threat i feel as we create so many more clear cut chances for our strikers when those 2 are on the field together. Their energy and pressing gives time to both our forwards and defence and allows us to play a higher line

putting Balotelli on the left gives him that bit more freedom to roam, Or if we play him centrally with Borini on the right it allows the excellent movement of Borini to fill the space that Balotelli leaves when he wanders around.

It might suit the players in attack but it doesn't suit the defense. For me it looks like our best team could be:

                              Mignolet
Manquillo       Skrtel        Lovren            Moreno
                              Gerrard
                  Henderson       Coutinho
          Sterling                              Balotelli
                               Lambert

Swapping out Lambert when Sturridge is fit. 

[Kopenhagen]

I'm not sure what you're sort of agreeing with as that comment was about Markovic not Borini!

Doh. 

[Redcap]

It might suit the players in attack but it doesn't suit the defense. For me it looks like our best team could be:

                              Mignolet
Manquillo       Skrtel        Lovren            Moreno
                              Gerrard
                  Henderson       Coutinho
          Sterling                              Balotelli
                               Lambert

Swapping out Lambert when Sturridge is fit. 

You'd play Balotelli on the wing together with Lambert? Truly?

Surely the combination that should be given a go right now a diamond with Balotelli and Borini up front?

[ShayGuevara]

Borini to start at the weekend, to be squad depth he need's to be challenging his competition (Sturridge) to some degree for a starting spot. With Origi coming in at the end of the season this is his big chance, if he's doesn't take it he's gone. I'm sure Brendan will give him a fair crack at it especially being his signing, it's up to Fabio now.

[GregCharrua]

You'd play Balotelli on the wing together with Lambert? Truly?

Surely the combination that should be given a go right now a diamond with Balotelli and Borini up front?

I dont think playing him on the wing is crazy, loves drifting out there anyway.

[B0151?]

You'd play Balotelli on the wing together with Lambert? Truly?

Surely the combination that should be given a go right now a diamond with Balotelli and Borini up front?

That's where he played when Lambert got brought on against Hull I think. Not saying it's something we should start with but I'd certainly be interested in Balo out wide again.

[houkura]

The thing about starting Borini--look around the league, and others for that matter, and you will see backup strikers scoring for fun. Iago Aspas scored a hat trick today. Erik Lamela scored a rabona goal last week and a fine goal today but both have yet to score in the league in 2 years. Whenever Borini has been given a chance in the league he has been poor. I'm actually a big fan of his and have really hoped he would come good but it just hasn't happened. He either gets injured right away or just doesn't affect play at all.

Rodgers has the unenviable position of trying to discern whether Borini has now turned a corner and can translate that good play from the cup game into a league game performance. It's easy to make proclamations on RAWK about playing the diamond and playing Borini etc. etc. but none of us have our job riding on those types of decision, nor do we have the benefit of top analysts and training sessions to make those calls. We just see what we think is "good movement" or occasionally a goal..or assist and form opinions that a player should suddenly go from outcast to starting for Liverpool. Tough call for me-thankfully it's not my job. My opinion-yeah give Borini a chance up front with Balo this weekend why not?

And I must say I agree with "theMilkman" above. I too thought Markovic showed some real glimpses of promise in the game, culminating in him gliding past 2 defenders to the endline...and sadly getting the ball knocked out of play at the last second. He looks low on confidence but he certainly looks to be turning a corner of sorts. I've read a lot of reports that Liverpool were lucky to win that game. We had 20 shots to their 5 and dominated all the stats. I think they were lucky to even be in it towards the end. We just happened to score our goals at the death.

[stevieG786]

Sturridge back for Newcastle?

[istvan kozma]

Sturridge back for Newcastle?

Nope

[Redcap]

The thing about starting Borini--look around the league, and others for that matter, and you will see backup strikers scoring for fun. Iago Aspas scored a hat trick today. Erik Lamela scored a rabona goal last week and a fine goal today but both have yet to score in the league in 2 years. Whenever Borini has been given a chance in the league he has been poor. I'm actually a big fan of his and have really hoped he would come good but it just hasn't happened. He either gets injured right away or just doesn't affect play at all.

I think the thing about Borini has now become: the alternative setup has been so uninspiring, we should at least give it a chance.

And Swansea is one of the better PL sides. Doing it against Swansea should mean something.

[Historical Fool]

Borini to start at the weekend, to be squad depth he need's to be challenging his competition (Sturridge) to some degree for a starting spot. With Origi coming in at the end of the season this is his big chance, if he's doesn't take it he's gone. I'm sure Brendan will give him a fair crack at it especially being his signing, it's up to Fabio now.

Aspas and Ibe return as well, both fine players and next year we should see real solid competition up front as we have 5 quality strikers (Aspas, Sturridge, origi, balotelli and lambert) as well as Ibe and Sterling who can wreak havoc from the wings or the no 10 where necessary.

*edit : 6 I mean, inadvertently omitted borini.

[DanA]

You'd play Balotelli on the wing together with Lambert? Truly?

Surely the combination that should be given a go right now a diamond with Balotelli and Borini up front?

I think we've got too few players that are goal scorers. They may be out of form but Balotelli and Lambert historically are much more prolific than Borini....so yes I'd start them as suggested rather than have Borini up front. We need genuine goal scorers on the pitch if we want to score goals.

[Fromola]

well for me thats a good thing he was a great servant for this club and scored many important goals!

Agree but don't think we want a player like that now. It's all about your attacking contribution. If Borini could show Kuyt's knack for important goals then he may have a chance here but he's rarely played the big games. At Sunderland he scored in the cup final and the Chelsea cup game, United cup game and key league game.

[DanA]

Agree but don't think we want a player like that now. It's all about your attacking contribution. If Borini could show Kuyt's knack for important goals then he may have a chance here but he's rarely played the big games. At Sunderland he scored in the cup final and the Chelsea cup game, United cup game and key league game.

Got to wonder though can he do it? As  I said earlier Kuyt was a 1:3 goal players for us (excluding penalties), Borini has been more like a 1:5 goal player for us (excluding penalties).  That's not good enough, I don't want to be harsh but Aspas, Borini, Alberto and Assaidi aren't good enough.  I think we need to be targeting players with a better goal scoring record than these player, even if we do need to gamble on players a bit more than Chelsea I still think we should be targeting players that score goals.

[Fromola]

Got to wonder though can he do it? As  I said earlier Kuyt was a 1:3 goal players for us (excluding penalties), Borini has been more like a 1:5 goal player for us (excluding penalties).  That's not good enough, I don't want to be harsh but Aspas, Borini, Alberto and Assaidi aren't good enough.  I think we need to be targeting players with a better goal scoring record than these player, even if we do need to gamble on players a bit more than Chelsea I still think we should be targeting players that score goals.

Absolutely but at this moment in time he's worth a place in the team. He's far more mobile than Lambert and offers more. He works a lot harder than Balotelli and fits the system more. He's more of a team player. Both of them have the knack of getting in good positions so i'd give both a start on Saturday and see how they get on.

I think it goes back to that Oldham cup game we lost where a few players really fell out of favour after that. Robinson, Wisdom, Coates and Borini. It's not easy to turn it around here now when you're out of favour but given how we're struggling Borini took his chance on Tuesday compared to how our other strikers are performing. The fact Mario got a goal as well (assisted by Fabio) should earn them both a start at the weekend.

[DanA]

Absolutely but at this moment in time he's worth a place in the team. He's far more mobile than Lambert and offers more. He works a lot harder than Balotelli and fits the system more. He's more of a team player. Both of them have the knack of getting in good positions so i'd give both a start on Saturday and see how they get on.

I think it goes back to that Oldham cup game we lost where a few players really fell out of favour after that. Robinson, Wisdom, Coates and Borini. It's not easy to turn it around here now when you're out of favour but given how we're struggling Borini took his chance on Tuesday compared to how our other strikers are performing. The fact Mario got a goal as well (assisted by Fabio) should earn them both a start at the weekend.

I don't think Borini played well on Tuesday. A superb cross for the goal was a bright spark in and otherwise "sizzleless" performance. Hasn't changed my opinion of Borini, I'd rather back Lambert out of the two.

[Melbred]

I don't think Borini played well on Tuesday. A superb cross for the goal was a bright spark in and otherwise "sizzleless" performance. Hasn't changed my opinion of Borini, I'd rather back Lambert out of the two.

What has Lambert done to show he's warranted a spot in the side more than Borini? Lambert has offered next to nothing in all of his performances as well. At least Borini is actually mobile and can move about a bit.

[DanA]

What has Lambert done to show he's warranted a spot in the side more than Borini? Lambert has offered next to nothing in all of his performances as well. At least Borini is actually mobile and can move about a bit.

Well i'm not about to judge a player who sporadically plays 200 minutes of football. I need to go off more than that which is why I've taken into account what these two have done at previously. And Lambert has a significantly better record than Borini in terms of goals and assists.

[fefs]

Got to wonder though can he do it? As  I said earlier Kuyt was a 1:3 goal players for us (excluding penalties), Borini has been more like a 1:5 goal player for us (excluding penalties).  That's not good enough, I don't want to be harsh but Aspas, Borini, Alberto and Assaidi aren't good enough.  I think we need to be targeting players with a better goal scoring record than these player, even if we do need to gamble on players a bit more than Chelsea I still think we should be targeting players that score goals.

Borini, Aspas and Assaidi had all scored 10+ goals the season before they moved here, however that is no guarantee they will do so here
If we want to buy players who are scoring 15+ (and arent strikers) or players who are "premier league proven" then we are going to need to spend a lot more money

[Melbred]

Well i'm not about to judge a player who sporadically plays 200 minutes of football. I need to go off more than that which is why I've taken into account what these two have done at previously. And Lambert has a significantly better record than Borini in terms of goals and assists.

Then you should also take into the account that Lambert is the type of player who starts season slowly and only really gains match fitness and sharpness as he plays more regularly. It's something that he won't be getting here.

[Draex]

Then you should also take into the account that Lambert is the type of player who starts season slowly and only really gains match fitness and sharpness as he plays more regularly. It's something that he won't be getting here.

Then surely that points to a failure of our transfer strategy? It's been well documented by Rodgers/Lambert etc. that Lambert has come here to do a specific job - i.e. be a different option off the bench. If he has historically been a very slow starter that needs games to get sharp surely the two above points don't go together at all? In fact they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

[GBF]

Need to give Borini a good few run of games.  At Sunderland he had games under his belt and his performance improved.  Playing him with Mario (until Daniel is fit) make more sense than playing Sterling up-front with Mario.

[Melbred]

Then surely that points to a failure of our transfer strategy? It's been well documented by Rodgers/Lambert etc. that Lambert has come here to do a specific job - i.e. be a different option off the bench. If he has historically been a very slow starter that needs games to get sharp surely the two above points don't go together at all? In fact they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

They don't, which is why the transfer never really made sense to me. Instead of buying players to fit the system that was working last season, we bought strikers who are pretty much the opposite of what we require.

It's not really rocket science that a big target man at the age of 32 was going to need more game time to get match fit. It's something that Lambert has admitted was a concern of his just a month ago.

“I didn’t feel as sharp as I want to feel,” said the £4.5m summer signing. “It was things like my touches but that [sharpness] was the main thing I want to look at going back into training. I want to get my match fitness up because obviously everyone knows I’m not playing every game so I have to adapt myself now. I think I’m going to have to do more so my fitness is up to the same level as everybody else.

“It’s my sharpness and my fitness which I need to get on the training pitch and start improving it. I do work, I push myself to the limit, but maybe I am going to have to go to the fitness coach after this game and see if I can do more.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/24/ricky-lambert-liverpool-lack-sharpness

[Mingle]

Not including DS, I think our strikers would all be decent squad players...

The reason is, They all lack what it takes to be a top first choice at a top club... GOALS!

[woof]

Based on his performance against Swansea, he deserves to start. That's how we should reward our players

[Mutton Geoff]

The ironic thing is you are basing your selections on the performance in one game , is this the same lad many abused because he refused to leave ? If he plays awful I reckon some of you might have a go at Rodgers for selecting him!
I would go with lambert and Mario and have Borini as a 60 minute sub if required.

[MaxJ]

Borini, with his Sunderland connection, should be well up for Newcastle away.

However, and unfortunately, I think we’ll see Balotelli with the midfield five to be honest. Newcastle are in good form and I can see Rodgers trying to set us up to control the midfield.