Topic: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas

[chrisfletcher]

Probably the people who might be above the friend or family member on the waiting list but it would seem like a good idea, maybe for family and not just mates though.

Would make the reading of the will much more interesting

[Graham Smith]

If someone dies I think you should be able to transfer a ticket to a friend or a member of your family who is on the waiting list. Is there anyone who'd have a genuine issue with that?

I think you'd find a surpassing amount of opposition to that. There is a view that these tickets are not heirlooms.

[dudleyred]

If someone dies I think you should be able to transfer a ticket to a friend or a member of your family who is on the waiting list. Is there anyone who'd have a genuine issue with that?

I think if they are family and on waiting list then that's fine. Non family and or not on waiting list then should go back to the club

[Tommypig]

I think you'd find a surpassing amount of opposition to that. There is a view that these tickets are not heirlooms.

While I totally see your point that someone shouldn't be able to just jump a queue - it does in turn bring up the family part of going to the game and at the same time gives an opportunity for a young person to get access to going to the game. (If you restrict it to younger family members)
Also the compassionate side of you shouldn't have to start going to the game by yourself that pre match pint with your friend family member the banter discussing before and after while travelling to and from the game - this is the downside of supporting a successfull club as at many other clubs the opportunity to transfer into your close family members name would not be an issue.

[ScubaSteve]

I think you'd find a surpassing amount of opposition to that. There is a view that these tickets are not heirlooms.

Too right there'd be opposition to that. Why should you be able to pass it on to someone. If you can know longer go for whatever reason you give it up and it goes to the next person on the waiting list!

Personally, the idea of being stuck in the same seat for every home game sounds a bit depressing. It's nice to move around

[Hightown Phil]

Too right there'd be opposition to that. Why should you be able to pass it on to someone. If you can know longer go for whatever reason you give it up and it goes to the next person on the waiting list!

Personally, the idea of being stuck in the same seat for every home game sounds a bit depressing. It's nice to move around

Because killing the element of families and friends going to Anfield together is bad?

I'm talking people on the Waiting List here. Not just random people who you know.

[lfc79]

Interesting suggestions the main problems would be regarding the ticket prices, even at £30 that's between 7 and 13 off every ticket in the kop, 17 - 23 in the road end and 20 off the wings of the main stand and centenary. The club are at best going to hold ticket prices.
Photocards is an option but it should be free  given we are already paying about £25 just for the ability to buy tickets.
The crunch issue relates to loyalty and the sales tiers, to get a chance at reasonably priced seats on the kop you need to be in the cta A sale so 14+, drop out of that and your 18 games in the upper main stand is an extra £288.

[elmothered1]

me and me dad have season tickets together he dies and then we lose his ticket i get to go on me own every week rather than let my son have it...... sorry but that is wrong. season ticket holders for 20 odd years now. it should absolutely be allowed to pass on to an immediate family member in such cases.

[ScubaSteve]

Because killing the element of families and friends going to Anfield together is bad?

I'm talking people on the Waiting List here. Not just random people who you know.

No, it's good to go the game with family, you just give up yours too and start buying them in the members sale 

With the amnesty coming up and more than likely another in a few years STHs are sorted

[SP]

If someone dies I think you should be able to transfer a ticket to a friend or a member of your family who is on the waiting list. Is there anyone who'd have a genuine issue with that?

Take 2 extreme cases. In one the relative goes to every game and is a die hard supporter. That is probably uncontentious. Take the other extreme, the relative has never been to Anfield before. Them getting a season ticket before someone who has been waiting 20 years would be an injustice.

Somewhere in between is the natural boundary. The club is likely to criticised wherever it draws that line, which is why they will probably lean towards just saying no transfers after the end of the amnesty.

[davidsteventon]

My immediate thoughts on this are not a chance I'm up for tickets to be passed as first choice to family members. (Otherwise the numbers will never come down).
But then again we're moaning a lot about groups of people not being able to group together to make some noise - and this makes that worse to a point. (But maybe the numbers are very small to make this largely irrelevant?).

I think if it was allowed - it would just be abused - you'd end up with someones third cousins brothers sisters aunt who used to babysit our Clive getting the ticket. I find it difficult to argue when someone gives the example about going the game with their dad, then maybe ending up not being able to go with another family member, but having to sit on own. Not a great situation.

Perhaps the issue is also around season tickets being able to be moved more easily and relocated more easily to facilitate the grouping together with friends/family.



The enemy is within on most of this. 208 last week for the Chelsea game. Groups (2 and sometimes 3 or more) of obvious first timers near me. Kop end. 208. Groups - seats next to each other. First timers. That game did not go to general members 0 credits only I don't think. And if it did, or they had previous credits, they certainly did not have multiple credits to get seats together in the first 13+ sale. This wasn't bringing a mate along, or passing on being unable to attend. This was quite clearly cashing in.

[Redman0151]

Once the amnesty is over they shouldn't be passed down families.

Sorry but when you get a season ticket it doesn't say "to be passed on down your family for generations". Being lucky enough to be born into a family with season tickets shouldn't allow you to skip the list

[andy07]

Once the amnesty is over they shouldn't be passed down families.

Sorry but when you get a season ticket it doesn't say "to be passed on down your family for generations". Being lucky enough to be born into a family with season tickets shouldn't allow you to skip the list

Agreed, this pass it down from generation to generation has to end, but I totally get how pissed off someone would be if they had held a season ticket in their family since 1892 (or whenever we first had STs).

[Hightown Phil]

Once the amnesty is over they shouldn't be passed down families.

Sorry but when you get a season ticket it doesn't say "to be passed on down your family for generations". Being lucky enough to be born into a family with season tickets shouldn't allow you to skip the list

Didn't say 'Skip the list' though.

If this were a situation that arises I could just name my first born son with my Father's name. Wouldn't actually be an issue then given you don't write the DOB anywhere on your season ticket.

I've just thought up a dodge in the space of 1 minute to get round this. Shows you how difficult anything would be to enforce.

[Redman0151]

Didn't say 'Skip the list' though.

If this were a situation that arises I could just name my first born son with my Father's name. Wouldn't actually be an issue then given you don't write the DOB anywhere on your season ticket.

I've just thought up a dodge in the space of 1 minute to get round this. Shows you how difficult anything would be to enforce.

Add a picture to season tickets, or a date of birth. It's not really difficult to fix

[sharkeyb]

unless every ticket
season ticket
members
general sale is checked going into the ground the efficency of any system that would be put in place would be jepordised by the sheer amount of tickets that there are.

there are limited checks, unless these drastically change, or stewards are willing to challange then i cant see any tout being too concerned.

[Jake]

I'd allow passing down, as long as it was to someone who already been to plenty of games in the recent past seasons.

If it's passed down to Aunt Fanny who's never been before and she gives it to her gardener as a Christmas present... not so much

[Hightown Phil]

Add a picture to season tickets, or a date of birth. It's not really difficult to fix

It's going to be easier to get in to Russia than it is Anfield.

[Redman0151]

It's going to be easier to get in to Russia than it is Anfield.

Or it's going to be the same as entering a bar or betting shop

[noneoftheabove]

Can't agree with the suggestion that season tickets should be passed down family lines. Whilst I understand the emotional aspect this is not a reason to keep a seat in a family for ever. There is a waiting list for a reason and if somebody gets to the top of that list then they are the most deserving surely.

[Hightown Phil]

Can't agree with the suggestion that season tickets should be passed down family lines. Whilst I understand the emotional aspect this is not a reason to keep a seat in a family for ever. There is a waiting list for a reason and if somebody gets to the top of that list then they are the most deserving surely.

I think there's an element of the waiting list being a bit flawed.

Who deserves the ticket more? Person in 3rd on a waiting list who hasn't been to Anfield for 15 years or someone who's got 19 credits on a fancard for the last 5 seasons but isn't on the list? Hypothetical but theoretically possible.

[SP]

I think there's an element of the waiting list being a bit flawed.

Who deserves the ticket more? Person in 3rd on a waiting list who hasn't been to Anfield for 15 years or someone who's got 19 credits on a fancard for the last 5 seasons but isn't on the list? Hypothetical but theoretically possible.

And of course the system is fucked, because the person with 19 credits on his fancard is buying for loyalty and passing on the tickets. The person who really deserves the tickets is the one who makes it to all 19 games by hook or by crook, yet receives very few credits in their own name. The ones who always find a way are the ones who deserve it most.

And that is the nub of the problem. The records are shit, and don't have a clue who actually sits in the seats. A credits based system favoured the touts that everyone wants to eliminate.

[Van_Pur]

And of course the system is fucked, because the person with 19 credits on his fancard is buying for loyalty and passing on the tickets. The person who really deserves the tickets is the one who makes it to all 19 games by hook or by crook, yet receives very few credits in their own name. The ones who always find a way are the ones who deserve it most.

And that is the nub of the problem. The records are shit, and don't have a clue who actually sits in the seats. A credits based system favoured the touts that everyone wants to eliminate.

 
Couldn't agree more with this!

[andy07]

And of course the system is fucked, because the person with 19 credits on his fancard is buying for loyalty and passing on the tickets. The person who really deserves the tickets is the one who makes it to all 19 games by hook or by crook, yet receives very few credits in their own name. The ones who always find a way are the ones who deserve it most.

And that is the nub of the problem. The records are shit, and don't have a clue who actually sits in the seats. A credits based system favoured the touts that everyone wants to eliminate.

I have 19 credits and do attend all the home games!   But I have 0 away league credits and have to rely on a combination of picking up tickets from mates who genuinely can't go,  possible getting those that are passed on by credit hunters and sitting in the home end so can see both sides of this.

[D🐶G]

And of course the system is fucked, because the person with 19 credits on his fancard is buying for loyalty and passing on the tickets. The person who really deserves the tickets is the one who makes it to all 19 games by hook or by crook, yet receives very few credits in their own name. The ones who always find a way are the ones who deserve it most.

And that is the nub of the problem. The records are shit, and don't have a clue who actually sits in the seats. A credits based system favoured the touts that everyone wants to eliminate.

And what about those of us who have 19 credits and actually attend every game? Not everyone with 19 credits is buying for loyality and to make a few quid you know? Some of us actually go the game, every game, year on year.

[SP]

And what about those of us who have 19 credits and actually attend every game? Not everyone with 19 credits is buying for loyality and to make a few quid you know? Some of us actually go the game, every game, year on year.

We are talking hypotheticals. And I was over-egging to make a point. The underlying principle that those that actually go to every game deserve priority, irrespective of whose ticket they use. The major issue is that achieving that is impossible with the information currently held, and obtaining that information is likely to be intrusive.

[Shanklygates]

An interesting start.....

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/tickets/anfield-attendances/premier-league

[Redman0151]

An interesting start.....

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/tickets/anfield-attendances/premier-league

That's a step in the right direction, well done to the club.

I'm kind of suspicious about those breakdowns though, 26% of tickets to corporates/partners for United, compared to 23% for Hull/Sunderland etc... Is the club really only carving out ~2% more tickets for the United game for their sponsors and corporates? Feels unlikely to me

[J_Kopite]

That's a step in the right direction, well done to the club.

I'm kind of suspicious about those breakdowns though, 26% of tickets to corporates/partners for United, compared to 23% for Hull/Sunderland etc... Is the club really only carving out ~2% more tickets for the United game for their sponsors and corporates? Feels unlikely to me

I agree that its unlikely, but if the club aren't bullshitting, a possible explanation is that the tickets touts use are still making up the figures in the Members and Season Tickets percentages, but the United game sees more tickets touted due to the temptation for people to offload them illegally for high prices.

[Graham Smith]

An interesting start.....

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/tickets/anfield-attendances/premier-league

This has taken about two years of badgering to get and they still will only release the information twice a season (halfway through and at the end).

[oojason]

^ well in to everyone involved for getting them to do it in the first place though.

Who'd have thought openness, transparency and communication from the club could prove to be such a hassle to them / prove so reluctant to release info like this...

[andy07]

Can't agree with the suggestion that season tickets should be passed down family lines. Whilst I understand the emotional aspect this is not a reason to keep a seat in a family for ever. There is a waiting list for a reason and if somebody gets to the top of that list then they are the most deserving surely.

Agreed but if the person they are passed onto is already attending games on his / her own card then there maybe a case, but how many games does that person need to be attending?    Is the person that is passed the card more worthy than a member with 19 home credits or the next person on the ST waiting list?

[ant]

if your not on the list yer not getting in - ynwa !

[di]

Camera on the turnstile. Someone sat in an office somewhere, possibly even in India, flagging possible mismatches. People who hide their face can similarly be flagged. All potential mismatches had seat number associated. A steward with a tablet can visually check against their card photo. I would imagine in most cases that people could be cleared without even needing to speak to them. If the same cards regularly get flagged to be checked. They can be denied entry without a visual check. It is all doable if there is a will to pursue it. 

I believe this technology is called "facial recognition" however, no point, if the stewards are not educated in this process because people do things as they are told. (e.g. computer says no!!)

[Tommypig]

It doesn't need much checking if the photo is on the card - it acts as a deterrent - eventually if its a touts card it will be spotted some muppet will ask a steward where his seat he will see the face on the card doesn't match - he shows the punter to his seat but confisgates the card - then the tout can be dealt with. Through evolution they will be taken out of the system.

This though only works if you are allowed to transfer to another user - if you can't too many people will have issues with cards seized for genuine reasons - lent it to my mate to take his boy.

Not everyone is going to be happy with the eventual solutions hence why there needs to be a lot of compromise.

[kalle-anka]

But surely there's a few things that need to be done before cancelling peoples membership because they're not used by the owner.

First confiscated all cards from the touts outside of Anfield, send in someone undercover and get them to confess that they're selling tickets.
Secondly target all the twitter & facebook pages selling tickets over face value.

[Always_A_Red]

Stood in 306 for the Spurs game and had the pleasure of standing next to an elderly STH who had swapped his ST seat in the new main stand with his mate so his mate could see what the view was like in the new stand. He attends every game for past 30+ years and this was the first time since 91 that he was stood on the KOP. Imagine for a second that his mate had the ticket taken off him as he was not the STH...don't really know the best way to tackle the problem. I think a lot of regulars are gonna get fucked over by these ideas

On a side note I did tell the guy to exchange his MS ticket for the Kop as he's obviously a lucky omen on there and we haven't won the league since he moved off it!!

[paulsheridan08]

Regarding the STH stats, more % of STH at united game. Is this stating what % of STH return tickets onto the ticket exchange? I would imagine it is. Interesting fact if so that 0.3% are returning tickets each game which is around 150-200 a game. Shows why it's difficult getting one this season on the additional sales the week before.

[ScubaSteve]

Regarding the STH stats, more % of STH at united game. Is this stating what % of STH return tickets onto the ticket exchange? I would imagine it is. Interesting fact if so that 0.3% are returning tickets each game which is around 150-200 a game. Shows why it's difficult getting one this season on the additional sales the week before.

Tickets where coming up all the time on STH exchange last season. Think it's probably due to the fact we've not been in Europe, and only had one cup run!!

You get more on hospitality returns!

[ant]

this will reduce touting for anyone living in the "Americas" :

http://www.fenwaysportsmanagement.com/LFCtrip/

maybe the club could do it for other far away kopites ?