Topic: New Poll 2015: Gay Adoption

[TepidT2O]

I voted No.

I'm perfectly fine with people marrying who ever they want. I'm perfectly fine with 2 gay women raising kids, I'm perfectly fine with 2 gay men raising a boy. But I'd be lying if I say that I'm comfortable with the idea of 2 guys raising a girl, neither can provide a female perspective growing up and I think that would be harmful to the child.

What if we could provide evidence that this wasn't the case?

Would this change your mind?

More still, if there isn't evidence to suggest it IS harmful, why would you make that assumption?

[Packalacky]

What about single parent fathers? Should they not be able to raise their kids alone?

We are talking about making a choice for kids. Often single father's are put in a position where they have no choice, ie mother died. It's not comparable.

[Packalacky]

What if we could provide evidence that this wasn't the case?

Would this change your mind?

More still, if there isn't evidence to suggest it IS harmful, why would you make that assumption?

Yes.

To the second question, People always take the safest option, especially when it comes to kids.

[TepidT2O]

Yes.

The only good study of this (from Australia) shows that kids of same sex couples have better outcomes than those of opposite sex couples....

[Bucke]

All the kids I know now between 10 (age of my eldest) and end of school age (all my mates' kids) really do not give a shit about sexuality. It's older generations hang ups, not theirs, they don't care if someone's gay, straight, tri-sexual or whatever, or if you have 0, 1 or 2 mums or dads. It's not like the 90's, 80's,70s etc out there any more, our kids lack of prejudice puts us all to shame

I voted yes by the way. I have plenty of gay friends and a gay aunty, all are happy loving people perfectly capable of nurturing a child - why the fuck wouldn't they be?

[Packalacky]

The only good study of this (from Australia) shows that kids of same sex couples have better outcomes than those of opposite sex couples....

That's the point. It's singular.

[TepidT2O]

Children of same-sex couples are happier and healthier than peers, research shows

Children of same-sex couples fare better when it comes to physical health and social well-being than children in the general population, according to researchers at the University of Melbourne in Australia.

“It’s often suggested that children with same-sex parents have poorer outcomes because they’re missing a parent of a particular sex. But research my colleagues and I published in the journal BMC Public Health shows this isn’t the case,” lead researcher Simon Crouch wrote on the Conversation.

Crouch and his team surveyed 315 same-sex parents with a total of 500 children across Australia. About 80 percent of the kids had female parents and about 18 percent had male parents, the study states.

Children from same-sex families scored about 6 percent higher on general health and family cohesion, even when controlling for socio-demographic factors such as parents’ education and household income, Crouch wrote. However, on most health measures, including emotional behavior and physical functioning, there was no difference compared with children from the general population.

Crouch suggested the greater social cohesion among same-sex families comes from an equal distribution of work. He said same-sex couples are likely to share responsibilities more equally than heterosexual ones.

“It is liberating for parents to take on roles that suit their skills rather than defaulting to gender stereotypes, where mum is the primary care giver and dad the primary breadwinner,” he said.

But Benjamin Siegel, professor of pediatrics at the Boston University School of Medicine, said there are limits with such research. He told BU Today last year that none of the studies has been a randomized, controlled trial and that all studies on same-sex parenting are small since there aren’t as many same-sex parents.

The University of Melbourne study also pointed out a problem facing same-sex families: stigma.

According to the study, about two-thirds of children with same-sex parents experienced some form of stigma because of their parents’ sexual orientation. Despite these kids’ higher marks in physical health and social well-being, the stigma associated with their family structure was linked to lower scores on a number of scales. Crouch said stigmas ranged from subtle issues such as sending letters home from school addressed to a “Mr.” and “Mrs.” to more harmful problems such as bullying at school. The greater the stigma a same-sex family faces, the greater the impact on a child’s social and emotional well-being, Crouch said.

However, according to a report published by the American Academy of Pediatrics last year that analyzed three decades of data, children raised by gay and lesbian parents showed resilience “with regard to social, psychological and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma.”

“Many studies have demonstrated that children’s well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents’ sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents,” said Siegel, co-author of the American Academy of Pediatrics report.

Amid the last year’s Supreme Court arguments over same-sex marriage, researchers found that the quality of parenting and families’ economic well-being was more important than sexual orientation.

“I can tell you we’re never going to get the perfect science, but what you have right now is good-enough science,” Siegel said. “The data we have right now are good enough to know what’s good for kids.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/07/children-of-same-sex-couples-are-happier-and-healthier-than-peers-research-shows/

[Elmo!]

That's the point. It's singular.

One study is better than an assumption, no?

[TepidT2O]

That's the point. It's singular.

Ah, so rather than rely on the good evidence we have, you see it better to fall back on totally unsubstantiated myths.

Sad that.

[Packalacky]

Ah, so rather than rely on the good evidence we have, you see it better to fall back on totally unsubstantiated myths.

Sad that.

Is simply not enough. As I said I'm perfectly fine with gay women raising kids, 80% of the cases in the study were raised by women and that's great that the kids actually did better than normal. Of the 18% of children raised by gay men, what percentage were girls? The sample size is simply not big enough on such an important topic.

[CraigDS]

Is simply not enough. As I said I'm perfectly fine with gay women raising kids, 80% of the cases in the study were raised by women and that's great that the kids actually did better than normal. Of the 18% of children raised by gay men, what percentage were girls? The sample size is simply not big enough on such an important topic.

I imagine there are a few hundred thousand, if not more, girls who have been raised by a father only who have no issues at all.

[Packalacky]

I imagine there are a few hundred thousand, if not more, girls who have been raised by a father only who have no issues at all.

Yep, that's the important word.

[Xabi Gerrard]

I imagine there are a few hundred thousand, if not more, girls who have been raised by a father only who have no issues at all.

Can a single man in the UK adopt a child? (Not trying to make a point btw, I genuinely dont know!)

[CraigDS]

Yep, that's the important word.

Why is it important at all? Do the gay male couple not become a father to the adopted child?

[CraigDS]

Can a single man in the UK adopt a child? (Not trying to make a point btw, I genuinely dont know!)

Yep.

[Packalacky]

Yep.

It's extremely rare though. Why do you think that is?

[electricghost]

I voted No.

I'm perfectly fine with people marrying who ever they want. I'm perfectly fine with 2 gay women raising kids, I'm perfectly fine with 2 gay men raising a boy. But I'd be lying if I say that I'm comfortable with the idea of 2 guys raising a girl, neither can provide a female perspective growing up and I think that would be harmful to the child.

Why are you not concerned with 2 gay women raising a boy and there being a lack of male perspective ?

[Elmo!]

It's extremely rare though. Why do you think that is?

There are few single men who want to adopt on their own maybe?

[Packalacky]

Why are you not concerned with 2 gay women raising a boy and there being a lack of male perspective ?

Because I don't think it's the same. It's why, according to the study linked earlier, 80% of kids are adopted by gay women. Maybe it's to do with society's perception of what is normal and what isn't.

[CraigDS]

It's extremely rare though. Why do you think that is?

I presume you've got some stats to back up the assumption you seem to be hinting at? Or is it a case of it's just rare for single men to apply to adopt?

[Packalacky]

There are few single men who want to adopt on their own maybe?

Even so, they are very low on the priority list. I feel the same way about them as I do to gay men adopting.

[Elmo!]

Even so, they are very low on the priority list. I feel the same way about them as I do to gay men adopting.

How low compared to single women?

Do you have any preference between a single straight man adopting and a single gay man adopting?

[Packalacky]

How low compared to single women?

Do you have any preference between a single straight man adopting and a single gay man adopting?

No, it's exactly the same for me.

[TepidT2O]

No, it's exactly the same for me.

So, despite there being a very large number of single fathers who bring up children very successfully, you are not happy for single men to adopt...

How odd

[CraigDS]

Even so, they are very low on the priority list.

Based on what stats?

[Elmo!]

So, despite there being a very large number of single fathers who bring up children very successfully, you are not happy for single men to adopt...

How odd

I could sort of understand this argument if there was an oversupply of people wanting to adopt but as far as I am aware there is definitely not.

[Packalacky]

Based on what stats?

Government data from 2014 available to anyone.

91% (4,610) of children were adopted by couples
9% (440) by single adopters

Of those 440, 20 were adopted by single men according to the telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11942467/Adopting-Its-time-to-encourage-single-men-to-take-the-plunge.html

[CraigDS]

Government data from 2014 available to anyone.

91% (4,610) of children were adopted by couples
9% (440) by single adopters

Of those 440, 20 were adopted by single men according to the telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11942467/Adopting-Its-time-to-encourage-single-men-to-take-the-plunge.html

Which shows us absolutely nothing.

What part of those stats suggests they are lowest priority? What part suggests a higher % of single parent want to be adopters get turn down than a couple?

[Packalacky]

Which shows us absolutely nothing.

What part of those stats suggests they are lowest priority? What part suggests a higher % of single parent want to be adopters get turn down than a couple?

Oh come on Craig, that's just not reasonable. So 20 kids adopted by single men, out of over 5000, tells you nothing? It tells me about what are the expectations of single men adopting a kid and what society thinks of it, along with the chances of it happening.

For me, I just don't see how it's beneficial for a girl to be placed with a single man or a gay male couple.

[Chakan]

For me, I just don't see how it's beneficial to a girl to be placed with a single man or a gay male couple.

Do you have a problem with the opposite? 2 gay women with a young boy?

If not i'd like to understand why. Thanks

[gregor]

For me, I just don't see how it's beneficial for a girl to be placed with a single man or a gay male couple.

Erm, I'd say that it would be beneficial if they provide a stable and loving home for her, rather than her being in the foster system. That's not to say foster parents aren't fantastic - they do a vital job. But a stable, permanent home is surely better.

[johnsmithlfc]

We are talking about making a choice for kids. Often single father's are put in a position where they have no choice, ie mother died. It's not comparable.

But you said it's harmful to the child to be raised by only men...So in the interest of child safety, shouldn't we 'save' all the kids who are in paternal single parent families?

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!


I'm sorry but there is no sensible, logical, coherent or moral argument for not allowing 'Gay' adoption.

[Packalacky]

Do you have a problem with the opposite? 2 gay women with a young boy?

If not i'd like to understand why. Thanks

No I don't have a problem with it. I can't give you a logical answer to that, or one that can be proven to be beneficial either way, it's just that for me it seems more acceptable for women to raise a boy than for men to raise a girl.

[Packalacky]

But you said it's harmful to the child to be raised by only men...So in the interest of child safety, shouldn't we 'save' all the kids who are in paternal single parent families?

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!


I'm sorry but there is no sensible, logical, coherent or moral argument for not allowing 'Gay' adoption.

link please. I don't recall saying it was harmful. That word implies abuse.

[Elmo!]

link please. I don't recall saying it was harmful. That word implies abuse.

So you don't think it's harmful?

Do you think growing up going between foster homes and care homes is harmful?

[johnsmithlfc]

link please. I don't recall saying it was harmful. That word implies abuse.

No problem - your words.

I voted No.

I'm perfectly fine with people marrying who ever they want. I'm perfectly fine with 2 gay women raising kids, I'm perfectly fine with 2 gay men raising a boy. But I'd be lying if I say that I'm comfortable with the idea of 2 guys raising a girl, neither can provide a female perspective growing up and I think that would be harmful to the child.

Not sure how you forgot what you posted just a few hours ago ...

[Packalacky]

No problem - your words.


Not sure how you forgot what you posted just a few hours ago ...

Thank you for linking that. I meant that it is not beneficial to a girl to grow up without a mother figure, that's how I've described it in most of the posts I made.

[CraigDS]

Oh come on Craig, that's just not reasonable. So 20 kids adopted by single men, out of over 5000, tells you nothing? It tells me about what are the expectations of single men adopting a kid and what society thinks of it, along with the chances of it happening.

Then you're abusing the stats.

All those stats say is what % of children were adopted by what type of adopter. The rest is your opinion.

For all you know 100% of single men applying were successful, where as 50% of couples applying were. The stats just don't give any indication as to what 'priority' they are.

[johnsmithlfc]

Thank you for linking that. I meant that it is not beneficial to a girl to grow up without a mother figure, that's how I've described it in most of the posts I made.

So it's harmful - your words.

OK.

[Packalacky]

So it's harmful - your words.

OK.

My words are what I'm writing now, this isn't a criminal case  . For me, it's not beneficial for a girl to grow up with 2 men or a single man in comparison to a couple or someone that she can relate to, ie 2 females. The same does not apply to boys (I know, doesn't make sense).

Then you're abusing the stats.

All those stats say is what % of children were adopted by what type of adopter. The rest is your opinion.

For all you know 100% of single men applying were successful, where as 50% of couples applying were. The stats just don't give any indication as to what 'priority' they are.

Absolutely, we don't know what percentage applied and received a child. But you can't just dismiss them as if they mean nothing.