Author Topic: Wikileaks:  (Read 127689 times)

Offline cornelius

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,803
  • "Beware the beast man, for he is the Devil's pawn"
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2010, 12:19:49 am »
Just caught a bit about it on ITV news.  They were saying this could cause the toppling of governments and unrest.  They were saying that the US are seeking to get Wikileaks listed as a terrorist organisation.
It's not like ITV to spout sensationalist headline grabbing muck.

I doubt there's much serious stuff in these leaks that isn't already known to a lot of the countries concerned.

Offline finchie

  • It's the truth I tells ya!... the truth!...
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2010, 12:20:00 am »

Offline timiano

  • Flatlander
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,482
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2010, 12:26:26 am »
It's not like ITV to spout sensationalist headline grabbing muck.

I doubt there's much serious stuff in these leaks that isn't already known to a lot of the countries concerned.

To an extent. There's certainly going to be some embarrassing disclosures and faux pas in the midst. Biggest thing for me, is the confirmation to the public of such goings on, and some real transparency at last.

Offline AnyGivenSunday

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,473
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2010, 12:27:34 am »
I doubt there's much serious stuff in these leaks that isn't already known to a lot of the countries concerned.

I agree with this.  However, there's a difference between 'knowing' something and it being on paper as fact and in the hands of anyone who wishes to see it.  It's going to be most interesting to see how Iran reacts to the information provided by these leaks: I suspect it won't be a pleasant one.

Offline Imperium

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 224
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2010, 12:32:31 am »
It's not like ITV to spout sensationalist headline grabbing muck.

I doubt there's much serious stuff in these leaks that isn't already known to a lot of the countries concerned.
Yea im pretty sure all the countries were told beforehand what it contained and it was wrapped up in pretty rhetoric and firm handshakes. The only question in my opinion left, is how the public will react in some countries. Especially with the Gulf leaders and their "Bomb Iran" campaigns. Im not definitely sure, but i was under the impression Iran was seen in a postive light by the Arab public for its abrasive stance to the west?

Offline Refo

  • ree! How art thee?!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,742
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2010, 12:32:38 am »
thats a fair point, but every private individual does not have to be so careful and respectful with their chosen words.


that's true, but the memos being revealed were never intended to be made public. Its like talking about a friend's girlfriend with another friend and then having your comments posted on the internet for everyone who's interested. If people within governments are scared to speak freely even among themselves for fear of causing a diplomatic crisis, communication will become impossible. That's what the memo will probably achieve (or at least move things in the direction of), not an increase in government openness.

As I said earlier, wikileaks should think about the results of what it releases and stick to revealing direct info about abuse, not what governments are privately saying about each other.
I'm liking this Refo-fella. Wanna adopt?

Offline timiano

  • Flatlander
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,482
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2010, 01:09:09 am »
If people within governments are scared to speak freely even among themselves for fear of causing a diplomatic crisis, communication will become impossible.

But the privacy side of things isn't the issue. Yeh there's a load of tittle tattle in there, but it's the transparency of their foreign policy, which is at odds with what they claim is truth which is the issue, and is rightly had theblid blown off. Still it's nothing surprising, but seeing it in raw evidence confirms to the world what the US is all about.

Offline timiano

  • Flatlander
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,482
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2010, 01:10:05 am »
Best thing I've read in the commentary on The Guardian

"The issue is not one of \"State Secrets\" being disclosed to foreign governments, but the far bigger problem of \"EMPIRE secrets\" being clearly seen by Americans at home.

It seems to me that all the tremendous angst, consternation, and difficulty of the US in messaging, dealing and explaining what is coming out from Wikileaks really does not have anything to do concerns about the normal \"roughness', candor, or embarrassment of explaining the supposed foreign 'damage' of how normal diplomacy works, but rather the shock of American citizens at home seeing how an EMPIRE conducts global policy.

If the leaked information contains what I strongly think that it will clearly reveal, the real danger that 'our' (sic) government is fearing is that of how average American citizens will react to seeing that their own supposed government is acting like an EMPIRE with the rest of the world ---- and that the American people will realize that they have been being lied to for decades, and that their government, far from acting like a normal democracy (or democratic republic) has been acting like an Empire and IS an Empire.

That's the real threat that has all of the politicians from both 'Vichy' parties, and their professional bureaucratic and technocratic underlings, and more importantly the ruling-elite of this previously well hidden global corporate/financial/militarist EMPIRE posing as the nation called America nervous as whores in church ---- that the people will now see them as phonies, shills, pimps, and treasonous whores for an Empire whose disguise is now coming off."

Offline jerseyhoya

  • Would love to get some of that Cock money
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,275
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2010, 02:02:59 am »
Quote
Mixed records against terrorism: Saudi donors remain the chief financiers of Sunni militant groups like Al Qaeda, and the tiny Persian Gulf state of Qatar, a generous host to the American military for years, was the “worst in the region” in counterterrorism efforts, according to a State Department cable last December. Qatar’s security service was “hesitant to act against known terrorists out of concern for appearing to be aligned with the U.S. and provoking reprisals,” the cable said.

Presumably the timing of the leaks is designed to derail Qatar's 2022 bid

Offline Phil M

  • YNWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 58,982
  • Bravery is believing in yourself" Rafael Benitez
    • I coulda been a contenda.....
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2010, 03:44:27 am »
It's true to say that if Shankly had told us to invade Poland we'd be queuing up 10 deep all the way from Anfield to the Pier Head.

Offline conman

  • Ohh aaaah just a little bit, Ooh aahh, a little bit more. Aerial stalker perv. Not cool enough to get the lolz.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,498
    • Cocopoppyhead
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2010, 05:08:20 am »
A cable to US diplomats issued under US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's name tells them to collect "biographic and biometric" information - including iris scans, DNA samples and fingerprints - on key officials at the UN. They are also ordered to find credit card details, email addresses and passwords and encryption keys used for computer networks and in official communications.

- what goes around, comes around i guess.


Offline Refo

  • ree! How art thee?!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,742
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2010, 05:25:35 am »
But the privacy side of things isn't the issue. Yeh there's a load of tittle tattle in there, but it's the transparency of their foreign policy, which is at odds with what they claim is truth which is the issue, and is rightly had theblid blown off. Still it's nothing surprising, but seeing it in raw evidence confirms to the world what the US is all about.
[/quote]

First off, even if its an unintended consequence, what will come of this is that foreign governments will now feel pressured to take issue with the way the Americans have spoken about them, even though this speech was intended to be off the record. To me, taking away the ability of internal discourse, thats a very big issue indeed.

There will, however, almost certainly be very little internal political damage to politicians as a result of this leak. The kind of opinions that are very commonly held outside of America, in which America is cast as a global villain and bully, well they barely register in the political discourse here. Why? Cause we are the shining beacon for democracy and humanity in the world. Disagree? Well you can prove anything with facts. Problem is these facts won't even enter the discourse, and though we can go back and forth over the validity of these opinions, this debate will not happen in the mainstream American media.
 
However now that you mention it, what exactly about what the United States is "all about"  has been revealed in this leak?
I'm liking this Refo-fella. Wanna adopt?

Offline PJG

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,079
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2010, 05:43:25 am »
that's true, but the memos being revealed were never intended to be made public. Its like talking about a friend's girlfriend with another friend and then having your comments posted on the internet for everyone who's interested. If people within governments are scared to speak freely even among themselves for fear of causing a diplomatic crisis, communication will become impossible. That's what the memo will probably achieve (or at least move things in the direction of), not an increase in government openness.

As I said earlier, wikileaks should think about the results of what it releases and stick to revealing direct info about abuse, not what governments are privately saying about each other.

I am not an expert on these things so I apologise if I'm wrong, but isn't this more like a friend talking to another friend about about keeping a  prisoner in the shed, or how they may burn down someones house rather than just taking about a friend's girlfriend.  By releasing all relevant information (even the one's about a friend's girlfriend), they are trying to be as transparent as possible so they can't be put at fault for hiding information, and so others can form an opinion.  Yes there is risk invovled in releasing the information, but not reporting it and letting boil away in the background can't be good either.

Offline Niru Red4ever

  • Spoiler spoiler
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,877
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2010, 06:05:55 am »
Agreed, the guy has certainly got some bottle

Fear for that guy, to be honest. US and co. will take him down; or will make his entire life a living hell.

How the bloke has not been assassinated is unbelievable. I hope he stays safe but one of the governments he has upset will no doubt do more than a dos attack on him.

I want to see what Prince Philip has said now assuming that's the inappropriate behavior.

Doubt there will something like that. Getting him stuck in a myraid of court cases and leaving him inprison would be the preferred option.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 06:07:37 am by Niru Red4ever »
Would love the 19th more and more trophies; but would love even more to see a fan owned LFC.

Offline Ken-Obi

  • Hasn't got Wan, doesn't deserve Wan
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,183
  • Super Title: isn't going to get one of these either
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2010, 06:05:56 am »
i wouldnt hold my breath, doubt many of the US public will see past what the media tells them about these docs
Considering they elected Bush twice to the White House....
Someone should do the right thing - go back in time to 1992 and destroy the codes to Championship Manager before it is ever released

Offline Refo

  • ree! How art thee?!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,742
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2010, 06:44:05 am »
I am not an expert on these things so I apologise if I'm wrong, but isn't this more like a friend talking to another friend about about keeping a  prisoner in the shed, or how they may burn down someones house rather than just taking about a friend's girlfriend.  By releasing all relevant information (even the one's about a friend's girlfriend), they are trying to be as transparent as possible so they can't be put at fault for hiding information, and so others can form an opinion.  Yes there is risk invovled in releasing the information, but not reporting it and letting boil away in the background can't be good either.

He is playing with fire, seemingly without a thought as to what his actions might cause and in my opinion, when you play with fire, you have to make sure you don't inadvertently burn the neighborhood down. For this reason, I think when you release information it should have a purpose, and you should do it having thought about what the consequences might be, like when Ellserg revealed the Pentagon Papers, something that was designed to put pressure on the US govt to end the Vietnam war, or even the tape wikileaks revealed that showed the killing of Iraqis at the hands of those helicopter pilots. These kinds of leaks are beneficial because they cause debate.

But in this case it seems that Assange released information purely for the sake of transparency. On the surface this sounds like a noble cause, but once you look at it a little more carefully it becomes somewhat worrying, because at sometimes safety can be dependent on the existence of private information. You have to start asking yourself, do you think all information should be public?
I'm liking this Refo-fella. Wanna adopt?

Offline finchie

  • It's the truth I tells ya!... the truth!...
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2010, 08:01:39 am »
Well it's all there.
That's fine if you want to leave it at that so in answer to my original question you could have said "nothing in particular".
I haven't seen anything truly stunning (and mistrust wikileaks and its motives) and so that was why I asked.

Offline PJG

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,079
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2010, 08:36:15 am »
He is playing with fire, seemingly without a thought as to what his actions might cause and in my opinion, when you play with fire, you have to make sure you don't inadvertently burn the neighborhood down. For this reason, I think when you release information it should have a purpose, and you should do it having thought about what the consequences might be, like when Ellserg revealed the Pentagon Papers, something that was designed to put pressure on the US govt to end the Vietnam war, or even the tape wikileaks revealed that showed the killing of Iraqis at the hands of those helicopter pilots. These kinds of leaks are beneficial because they cause debate.

But in this case it seems that Assange released information purely for the sake of transparency. On the surface this sounds like a noble cause, but once you look at it a little more carefully it becomes somewhat worrying, because at sometimes safety can be dependent on the existence of private information. You have to start asking yourself, do you think all information should be public?

I can understand where you are coming from, but there is at least some information within these documents that can be massively “beneficial” (although nothing really can be described as beneficial no matter what your perspective).  If they only release that information, then they are doing what they are trying to expose.  It would make them look hypocritical and possibly make them look like they have an agenda.   Maybe I’m over-simplifying it but, it’s appears to be a difficult situation for wikileaks, because as you quite rightly said, it could damage International relations (even the one built on a fake premise) and could possibly have unprecedented repercussions, but it’s a risk they needed to take in my opinion. 

Offline Valore

  • Why Don't You Come On Over
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,400
  • Help Rafa, help us. Help Rafa... Help Us...
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2010, 08:38:31 am »
I'm in agreement with Refo and xavidub on this.

Releasing what is the equivalent of a transcript of the gossip that goes on in diplomatic circles serves little purpose other than to cause unneeded embarrassment.

How many of us have friends and acquaintances that have little habits and idiosyncracies that we poke fun at or criticise when they're not within hearing?

Sure, maybe some of the jokes we make when they're not around may be cruel, but I expect the majority are just throwaway comments that we don't even remember. How fair would it be if you were videoed or recorded, and then your comments revealed to the person in question, causing undue hurt or distress, and damaging otherwise sound relationships?

Petty and small minded would be an apt description. The leaks seem to do nothing but fuel schadenfreude. Maybe Julian just got pissed at the governments digging up dirt on him, and this is his own petulant little swipe back. I was all for what wikileaks seemed to originally stand for, but it seems to have gone through the same transition our newspapers have, from reporting the facts to gutter tabloid bile.

Quote
They beat better teams on the way, won in circumstances when other teams would have surrendered, were given the last rites and pronounced dead at the scene, before grabbing the attendant by the throat on the slab in the morgue, making everyone jump.

- Martin Samuel, after we beat Arsenal 4-2 in the second leg of the CL QF 2007-200

Offline GBF

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,033
  • The only religion with a God that you can touch!
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2010, 09:47:42 am »
Usually it is better not let government/military stuff out but I'm glad that Saudi Arabia is mentioned with regards to financing and forcing the west to bomb Iran.  Its some good "egg on the face" for those extremist c*nts in the suburbs of Birmingham, Leeds, Bradford, London who hopefully will stop their moronic "them against us".
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline litliper

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,141
  • Does anybody wanna buy a country?
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2010, 09:57:20 am »
Considering they elected Bush twice to the White House....

No they didn't...
"My country is the world, and my religion to do good." (Thomas Paine)

Offline Cusamano

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,821
  • Natural Police
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2010, 10:40:57 am »
Are wikileaks trying to get us into world war 3 or something?

Complete irresponsibility.
Wake up, will ya pal? If you're not inside, you're outside, OK? And I'm not talking a $400,000 a year working Wall Street stiff flying first class and being comfortable, I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars buddy. A player. - Gordon Gekko

Online Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,800
  • Trada
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2010, 01:02:45 pm »
BBCBreaking BBC Breaking News
Iranian President Ahmedinejad says American government orchestrated the Wikileaks releases to pursue 'political goals', from Reuters
2 minutes ag
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline Niru Red4ever

  • Spoiler spoiler
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,877
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2010, 01:14:07 pm »
BBCBreaking BBC Breaking News
Iranian President Ahmedinejad says American government orchestrated the Wikileaks releases to pursue 'political goals', from Reuters
2 minutes ag

....and it starts. Lets brace for a blame game in the following days.
Would love the 19th more and more trophies; but would love even more to see a fan owned LFC.

Offline lachesis

  • RAWK Scribe
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,046
  • МАРКСИСТ
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2010, 01:40:17 pm »
The timing of it (the leak) seems suspect to be fair. I've read a bit and what the papers mentioned have released so far. It seems to be very embarrassing - I don't think there will be any lasting damage though, a few months of political mud slinging.

With regards to the guy leaking it, I'm guessing he doesn't know everything about everything and it's not for him to release stuff and censor others, because frankly, he may not be in a situation to understand or comprehend every aspect of every cable.

Offline Phil M

  • YNWA
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 58,982
  • Bravery is believing in yourself" Rafael Benitez
    • I coulda been a contenda.....
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2010, 01:41:21 pm »
That's fine if you want to leave it at that so in answer to my original question you could have said "nothing in particular".
I haven't seen anything truly stunning (and mistrust wikileaks and its motives) and so that was why I asked.

I see enough there to make plenty of people in high places uncomfortable.
We'll have to wait and see what the outcome is I guess.
It's true to say that if Shankly had told us to invade Poland we'd be queuing up 10 deep all the way from Anfield to the Pier Head.

Offline GBF

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,033
  • The only religion with a God that you can touch!
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2010, 02:23:01 pm »
BBCBreaking BBC Breaking News
Iranian President Ahmedinejad says American government orchestrated the Wikileaks releases to pursue 'political goals', from Reuters
2 minutes ag

the clown has open his mouth....i hope he keeps his outstanding records in saying amazing comedy lines
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline OLDIE

  • WORLDIE
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,020
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2010, 06:04:47 pm »
BBCBreaking BBC Breaking News
Iranian President Ahmedinejad says American government orchestrated the Wikileaks releases to pursue 'political goals', from Reuters
2 minutes ag

With the yanks you never know !

Offline OLDIE

  • WORLDIE
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,020
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2010, 06:05:42 pm »
the clown has open his mouth....i hope he keeps his outstanding records in saying amazing comedy lines

Are you really saying that the USA may not have leaked the documents ?

Offline Azi

  • eckerslike
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,715
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2010, 06:13:26 pm »
to me it doesnt seem that bad whats released is more bitchin than anything else although you in the back of your head you do think that whats been released isnt the full story

Offline OLDIE

  • WORLDIE
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,020
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2010, 06:15:45 pm »
to me it doesnt seem that bad whats released is more bitchin than anything else although you in the back of your head you do think that whats been released isnt the full story

Your right we haven't got the full story yet !

The point is that they have obtained information about the goings on of some of the most powerfull people in the world. That to me is the issue.

Offline Azi

  • eckerslike
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,715
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2010, 06:48:53 pm »
Your right we haven't got the full story yet !

The point is that they have obtained information about the goings on of some of the most powerfull people in the world. That to me is the issue.

i dont think it came across in ma post what am saying is could the us have released this info and use wikileaks as a distraction

Offline El Campeador

  • Capital of Culture's Campaign Manager...Transfer Board Veteran 5 Stars.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,721
  • The shupporters create chances, for sure, djes
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2010, 04:43:37 am »
But in this case it seems that Assange released information purely for the sake of transparency.

I'm no longer sure that is the case. He may not be all that noble, you know.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/government_programs/july-dec10/weakileaks2_11-29.html

Interesting suggestions by Brzezinski. Can one could plausibly argue that more of the information is designed to embarrass than not?

If that were the case, then what possibly could Wikileaks' motives be?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 04:46:59 am by El Campeador »

Offline Refo

  • ree! How art thee?!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,742
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2010, 06:27:06 am »
I'm no longer sure that is the case. He may not be all that noble, you know.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/government_programs/july-dec10/weakileaks2_11-29.html

Interesting suggestions by Brzezinski. Can one could plausibly argue that more of the information is designed to embarrass than not?

If that were the case, then what possibly could Wikileaks' motives be?

I don't think that Brzezinski was saying that wikileaks itself had a motive, merely that it could have been hijacked by foreign intelligence services and fed info specifically designed to hurt US interests.

Which ties in to what I've been saying. If you release everything without a filter or agenda of your own, simply for the sake of transparency your just asking for unintended consequences, like people using you for their own motives.
I'm liking this Refo-fella. Wanna adopt?

Offline Refo

  • ree! How art thee?!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,742
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2010, 06:41:16 am »
I can understand where you are coming from, but there is at least some information within these documents that can be massively “beneficial” (although nothing really can be described as beneficial no matter what your perspective).  If they only release that information, then they are doing what they are trying to expose.  It would make them look hypocritical and possibly make them look like they have an agenda.   Maybe I’m over-simplifying it but, it’s appears to be a difficult situation for wikileaks, because as you quite rightly said, it could damage International relations (even the one built on a fake premise) and could possibly have unprecedented repercussions, but it’s a risk they needed to take in my opinion. 

Alot of information has been interesting, no doubt. Yes, its interesting that Clinton thinks Kirchner has anxiety problems. Yes its interesting that China thinks North Korea is like a spoiled child. Yes its interesting that Saudi Arabia wants the US to bomb Iran. etc. etc. But mostly these things just embarrass leaders around the world and the US for letting them leak, hurting international relationships. They are not evidence of abuses, (except maybe the UN spying thing, though apparently most countries do this), and thus the fact that they are interesting doesn't excuse their potentially catastrophically divisive nature.
I'm liking this Refo-fella. Wanna adopt?

Offline GBF

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,033
  • The only religion with a God that you can touch!
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #75 on: November 30, 2010, 10:02:12 am »
Are you really saying that the USA may not have leaked the documents ?

I dont have any information to say yes or no but I doubt USA will release classified information and risk making their 2nd best buddies in Middle East upset. 
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline PILLSBURY069

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2010, 08:31:40 pm »
So tonight we learn that the previous government promised to protect the americans in the iraq enquiry . Now that amounts to a cover up and so you have to ask what do america need protecting from in the iraq enquiry? Apparently David Milliband was in the meeting where this offer was made. The current govt are refusing to comment on a leaked document. Now Im sorry but whatever your politics, this sort of shoddy cover up should not be allowed and we need to have the police freely and without political intervention investigate this and if there is a criminal case to be answered it should happen.
Steps off soap box.
Who ate all the pies?????? I DID!!!!!!!!!!

Offline conman

  • Ohh aaaah just a little bit, Ooh aahh, a little bit more. Aerial stalker perv. Not cool enough to get the lolz.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,498
    • Cocopoppyhead
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2010, 08:35:54 pm »
So tonight we learn that the previous government promised to protect the americans in the iraq enquiry . Now that amounts to a cover up and so you have to ask what do america need protecting from in the iraq enquiry? Apparently David Milliband was in the meeting where this offer was made. The current govt are refusing to comment on a leaked document. Now Im sorry but whatever your politics, this sort of shoddy cover up should not be allowed and we need to have the police freely and without political intervention investigate this and if there is a criminal case to be answered it should happen.
Steps off soap box.
pipe down.. ;) we all know the geneva convention and hague trials is not for the Allies/Coalition forces/UK/USA/France etc

Offline PILLSBURY069

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2010, 09:01:25 pm »
pipe down.. ;) we all know the geneva convention and hague trials is not for the Allies/Coalition forces/UK/USA/France etc

Phew, thanks conman for a minute there I believd in this fairytale idea called justice and that americans were part of the real world. Thanks for saving me from such an unrealistic world.
Who ate all the pies?????? I DID!!!!!!!!!!

Offline conman

  • Ohh aaaah just a little bit, Ooh aahh, a little bit more. Aerial stalker perv. Not cool enough to get the lolz.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 27,498
    • Cocopoppyhead
Re: Wikileaks:
« Reply #79 on: November 30, 2010, 09:51:54 pm »
I wonder will anything from 9/11 be contained in these leaks?