Author Topic: Some quality/important posts you may have missed  (Read 771597 times)

Offline Manila Kop

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #280 on: February 16, 2010, 01:53:51 am »
The Level 3 thread closed...talk about feeling old now.  :)  Thanks to Roy for getting the ball rolling and the rest for contributing to one of the most fascinating internet threads I have had the pleasure of reading, even if I didn't have much time to go through it the past year.
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Lolzies. More chance of a wank off the pope than beating United, I'm afraid. It is beyond Benitez, apart from when they were at their lowest ebb, when we knocked them out of the FA Cup. They certainly aren't anywhere near there now.

Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #281 on: February 16, 2010, 06:04:58 am »
For whatever reasons the Level 3 thread was closed, its a bloody shame. It was/is the best football thread you can find anywhere. The best of RAWK's posters were there. Its a bloody joy, regardless if we agree or disagree. Honestly, i reckon Rafa would enjoy a round table with some of the lads and impressed.

Its quite sad though, because i thought it could have progress towards match tactics analysis.
But as Roy suggested, we could all do with contributing to the whole of RAWK, but this time, its up to the wums to stop being wums.


Offline Uhoh AureliOs

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #282 on: February 16, 2010, 09:21:21 am »
It was closed because it was taking decent discussion from the main board and some of rawks best posters would hide away in there to the detriment of the main forum. Also some people thought it was cliquey although I found it quite open to new contributions.

Offline doikc

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #283 on: February 16, 2010, 09:26:48 am »
The level three thread gave me an insight into football i would not have gotten from anywhere else. It made concrete ideas about football that i had never considered, for that i am grateful. Most important though was that no matter how opposing the ideas they were well thought out. To all who were involved thanks!
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Gandhi. Benitez YNWA

Offline danwms

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #284 on: February 16, 2010, 09:39:05 am »
I missed this, what was the level three thread?

Offline .adam

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #285 on: February 16, 2010, 10:20:51 am »
I missed this, what was the level three thread?

It was a thread on Scientology. Send me a donation of $25,000 and you get to become a Level 3 Thetan.

Offline scatman

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #286 on: February 16, 2010, 10:38:03 am »
It was a thread on Scientology. Send me a donation of $25,000 and you get to become a Level 3 Thetan.

no he's lying. Send me a donation of $50,000 and you get to become a Level 3 Rinus
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #287 on: February 24, 2010, 09:01:43 am »
Thought this was a peach.

Coaches should always try and find a solution to a problem through coaching.
If the problem persists then it become a psychological issue.
I was talking to a lad last week who is a Sports Psychologist working for a very well known League One side. He doesn’t even get his expenses paid let alone any salary. Anyway….he works closely with their Performance coach who is an ex player. This coach is the sole reason the Psychologist is there, though it took a long time and a great deal of persuasion before the club would allow it.

The Performance coach admitted he always thought getting the players right was 90% fitness and 10% psychology. He confessed that he got that very wrong and now believes the scales are tipping very much the other way.
At the same time he was acutely aware of the reticence players had to psychology, so didn’t tell them who the lad I know was. He was ‘just helping out’. So he picked cones and water bottles up every week at training,in between watching the players. He got to know the players and eventually started working on a few things with them.....just having a chat so to speak. They saw it as coaching and accepted it.
He’s now a very popular member of the staff  (still unpaid) and the players confide in him.

He said he was surprised how  little confidence many of the players had in themselves at times or that many of the things he’s been asked to work on haven’t been addressed by coaching alone. He often refers the players back to the coaches and vice versa. He said many of the coaches were surprised by that.
 
One of the most frustrating aspects of coaching is seeing players not being able to do the simple things. Things that they can do in their sleep. That suggests a weakness and is usually addressed by reinforcing tried and trusted methods to them in the expectation that 'the light bulb' will suddenly switch on.

When I watch Gerrard I'm often amazed at the technical ability he shows , time after time in crucial, highly charged games.
He can strike a ball under immense pressure in such a way that if you took a photograph of him and froze the moment, you could put it in a coaching manual. He does that so often that I wonder how much is habit and how much is deliberate.

I like to believe he became aware many years ago, of the need to be technically good as often as possible to maximise positive results from your actions. It was a conscious attempt to ingrain good habits, that would become second nature as they were repeated over and over again.

I also recall watching Michael Owens coaching video for kids years ago and he was demonstrating volleying the ball from a corner. Time after time his body position was perfect. He struck the ball cleanly and accurately every time and every time it went exactly where he wanted it....into the top corner.
Now that's practice, confidence and desire. It isn't something that comes by luck. It's hours of practise, coaching and having the desire to perfect your skills.

In ths same video Jamie Carragher was doing a little demo on tackling. He was trying to get kids to tackle with their leading foot while moving alongside a player . At that time I was actually doing exactly the same thing with an open age teams fullbacks.
The kids took to it no problem.They didn't question it, they just did it. All these years later I'm wondering and hoping that they are still doing it.
The lads I was coaching however wanted to argue the toss about the rights and wrongs of using your leading foot to tackle.
I bet them £50 each that none of them could tackle with their other foot without going to ground. If they did and they didn't win the ball I offered to give them £100 each if they got up and caught up with the winger.
None of them could of course. It's virtually impossible to do at pace....which was the whole point.

Watching Carragher now..all these years later he is still doing the same thing. He rarely goes to ground when defending against a quick wide player. He's still realising that those skills he was taught as a kid make him a better player. He like Gerrard, Owen and many more like them will get it right more times than not.
I imagine that the majority of young players are taught good habits, unfortunately they can be easily forgotten. I like to think winners don't forget the things that in the majority of cases, will make them a bit different to the herd.

I read a story once about a young baseball pitcher. I can’t remember his name but he was struggling. A sports psychologist who’s classes this pitcher attended saw him having a really poor season and told his colleagues he was going to call him to try and help.

Almost straight after the young player started to turn things around. His team were top of the league in no time and stayed there.
The psychologists colleagues asked what he had said to the pitcher.
‘Nothing’ was the reply…..’He wasn’t at home when I called…I never got to speak to him’

The moral of the story is that of the psychology of responsibility. The player turned it around himself because he wanted to. What areas he worked on psychologically isn’t known, but he certainly bought into the idea that he had the responsibility to shape his own life.
The power to succeed or not was his.

royhendo

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #288 on: February 28, 2010, 10:35:35 pm »
To my under 8s today:

Me: "Now remember we play like Liverpool do, pass it then move into space, pass and move, pass and move."
Lad: "That's not how Liverpool play"
Me: "Yeah but it's how we used to"
Lad: "Like Barcelona then"
Me: "Yeah like Barcelona"

They're not soft.
4-1  ;D


;D

Offline manifest

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #289 on: March 1, 2010, 04:30:10 pm »
hope it's ok to post this in here: ....taken from the thread on Roxy Music, 92A took me on a ride through football, music, fashion, culture and identity

Roxy had a massive following in Liverpool in the seventies. Liverpool was a place never afraid to start fashions or to be out of sync with the rest of the country and Roxy played their part.
 
Growing up at the time, among me and my match going mates there was a general dissatisfaction about the charts which were getting filled with bubblegum bands and music which we couldn't really relate to but the alternative scene at the time was progressive rock, which was closed to the likes of us little street urchins. We made attempts to get into Led Zep and Pink floyd but generally couldn't read the NME or Sounds and get all the in jokes or references to A level topics, we still listened to Dark side of the Moon but you knew that Cuthbert from the lower sixth knew more about Floyd than you. At our school these people would come to school with LP's under their arms, the more obscure the better and getting stoned on draw was still a year or two off for most of us, as most people at the time where totally niave and unaffected by drugs, so we had to wait till the early eighties before we rediscovered these bands again out of synch with the rest of the country.
 
We were looking for something that was our own before Punk, and madly this meant certain bands were massive in Liverpool amongst us who were to become labelled scallies. Roxy where one of these bands, but also bands like The Sensational Alex Harvey band, Dr feelgood, Thin Lizzy, The Who, Deaf School and Bowie. So a bit art school mixed with a sort of pub rock, guitar sound that would be mirrored in punk.
 
Fashion wise, Three star jumpers and Birmo bags where the order of the day on the terraces, stuff as BootBoys we'd all been wearing, but in Liverpool this look was being tempured by local fashions that often had their routes on the continent, we'd started wearing flares rather than massive bags, getting into Kickers and suedeboots. I remember sitting in a cafe with a mate at an away, both of us wearing dessert boots and a big gang of Mancs coming in sitting on another table and going on about the easy way to spot a Scouser is because they wear suede boots.
 
Loads of us would go to see Roxy, and where blown away by how cool Ferry looked compared to fashions of the day. The look that we started which was totally at odds with the rest of the country drew on Roxy. There was a mini fashion in Liverpool amongst our age at the time getting a BF or a Bryan Ferry haircut, a the look that developed into the wedge that set us apart.
 
Some took it even further, we used to fight with Delamore Street off County Road, or the Delly Mob and these all started wearing drainpipe jeans and wickle pickers with BF haircuts. They were so out of step people would stop and stare in the street as they went past, some of these lads went on to be notorious theives on the continent but they all went the match. They were all mad Roxy Fans, at first we riduculed them but after a bit started taking on some of their look in the North end of Liverpool and that fed into the match look that kicked off all the casual look that today everyone wears. I could go on for hours writing about this stuff but suffice to say Roxy Music were a big influence on the Liverpool scene that changed the face of fashion in Britain.

Offline shanklyboy

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #290 on: March 1, 2010, 07:28:39 pm »
hope it's ok to post this in here: ....taken from the thread on Roxy Music, 92A took me on a ride through football, music, fashion, culture and identity


There's a Roxy Music thread?
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy.
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Offline manifest

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Offline shanklyboy

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The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy.
www.savelfc.org

Offline Ginamos

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #293 on: March 2, 2010, 07:07:24 am »
hope it's ok to post this in here: ....taken from the thread on Roxy Music, 92A took me on a ride through football, music, fashion, culture and identity

That's a great post from 92A, also took me "on a ride through football, music, fashion, culture and identity".

I'd never connected Ferry's hairstyle with influencing the wedge before, seems quite obvious now.

Offline hassinator

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #294 on: March 2, 2010, 12:36:56 pm »
That's a great post from 92A, also took me "on a ride through football, music, fashion, culture and identity".

I'd never connected Ferry's hairstyle with influencing the wedge before, seems quite obvious now.

ditto.  made me think of kevin sampson's book 'away days'.  plum wedge.  its been a long time since i could manage to pull one of those off convincingly ;D

Offline Rigga

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #295 on: March 10, 2010, 01:55:38 pm »
It's not as long and intricate as some posts in this thread, but if you can say what needs to be said in 7 lines of text, why wouldn't you?

home or away, when we have "fans" sticking the knive in to the manager, what then goes through the minds of (some) players when he tells them what to do...the holy trinity has been damaged by young and old fans who seem to think that as long as they pay that any insult can be thrashed around in public without damage...we are all responsible for the state we are in...bar none!---Shanks woudl cry if he heard the lack of respect that the "fast food fans" dish out.. at least at away games we (tend) to have a hard core of support but even thats been damaged recently..get back tot he holy trinity ..hold together Supporters, manager and team...we call ourselves the "Liverpool family" lets show it , home or away...otherwise we will lose the respect shown to us world wide, on and off the pitch..

Offline redpuma

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #296 on: March 10, 2010, 02:54:11 pm »
It's not as long and intricate as some posts in this thread, but if you can say what needs to be said in 7 lines of text, why wouldn't you?










Problem is we're now a dysfunctional family with one member (us)holding it all together.

Offline the 92A

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #297 on: March 14, 2010, 12:25:08 pm »
Shanks65: I used to agree with that. In fact, except for 2000/01 the treble season, I used to feel dead sorry for the younger lads. But I've changed me mind on that.

I actually think it was harder for us, who watched LFC from Shanks on, to watch the demise and fall. And had Shankly been in Rafa's boots right now, let's face it, he'd have never been given the chance to start the rise, nevermind complete his life's work.

And that is what is doing my head in right now....
I usually just arse about in here, tell daft stories and swerve the football. But it's being said now, so fuck it...
I tell you what is driving me mad. I believe in Rafa. I believe in his promise to not only bring back some short term success, but to.... "Leave behind a legacy, the likes of what Shankly and Paisley left behind them."

It's proven fact, a new manager brings in an upturn in results for a struggling team. By all statistics, this effect lasts for 8 games and then things level off and go back to where they where... without major investment to change things.

The papers are full of the usual tosh today... major new yank investors coming in and first thing on the agenda - sack Rafa, bring in Maureen.

Well, if that was to ever happen, I know the effect that would have on me...
I would honestly stop going the match and wouldn't return again until Maureen done one.

That's neither here nor there in the context of things at the moment. Whether I go to my usual 10/15 games a season means fuck all to no one but me, but that's the truth... as far as I'm concerned that would be the final nail in the Liverpool Way, and everything that made me a life time supporter of our club.

I know times have changed. I know kids aren't brought up like us anymore, and, for the most part, that's good. But I still miss those days of loyalty and solidarity.... the sort of loyalty us lads was ingrained with - loyalty to your family, to your mates, to your class, to your own. The sort of loyalty and solidarity not seen since the miner's strike.

LFC didn't teach me that. Me family, friends and surroundings did. But LFC, and Mr. Shankly in particular, was a big part of that and ingraining it in me. I shouldn't blow me own trumpet, but I'm still the same way... I stand up for me own. I can't help it. It's ingrained. And I'm a sentimental divvy at times, and that sort of loyalty has often made me fuck up in the past. But I'd rather be like that, than say.... oh, a later day, Chelsea, Manc or even post Istanbul/Rafa Liverpudlian.

I agree with you, there are some cracking young reds. Nothing would please me more than these kids seeing us dominate again. But some of the bile and poison I hear coming from some people towards Rafa - young and old - makes me ill.

I don't know who it's harder to take from...
the kids, who owe the best of their LFC following days to Rafa.
Or the older ones, who have seen it all before and should know that dynasties take time to build - despite the Sky hype and the mega bucks of 2 clubs.

Having said all that, if I believed Rafa had done all he could and it was time to move on, I would be calling for his head too. And sadly, in all honesty, I might be doing that soon.

Since the lad arrived the press/media have had their agenda. I believe this happened because the Foriegn Johnny Upstart had the temerity to "Disrespect the Cup," when we played Burnley. We all know the hypocrisy and double standards there - world club championship - so I'll leave it at that. But I honestly feel that set it off and it has only grown and got nastier since.

It now seems more and more supporters/fans are falling in line with this, and it's spreading onto the pitch. Fucking disgrace in my view. This is the time to stick together, and take the lot on, together, fight one of us, you fight us all.

But as I said, them days are over. And the sad thing is.... it looks like, we are going to pay for it because if this doesn't stop and stop soon - Rafa's job is going to be untenable anyway and there'll be no choice but for him to go.

And that does my head in because, I honestly believe that Rafa saw in us, exactly what Shankly seen.... a sleeping monster, that would stand by his side, through the wind and the rain, until he completed his life's work.

Oh well, maybe H&G won't hire the likes of Klinsmann and we might at least see number 19 under someone decent, or at least 8 good games under some "Yes man," who I think is the only thing they have any intention of hiring to complete their long term - "Weetabix," "Success is not needed on the field" - plan.

Happy days, eh.

Some serious sense being spoke by Fat Scouser in the Auld arse thread.
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #298 on: March 17, 2010, 02:41:29 pm »
Fuckin Ronseal faced narcissistic phoney gobshite.

If this c*nt wasn't involved in football he would be filling sanitary towel vending machines in tarts bogs at Moto service stations for a living and purchasing Airline Pilots uniforms from eBay with his wages then masquerading after work as Captain Phil Brown from Easyjet in an attempt to pull women. He would even go as far as studying airline related books at the library and have off pat the Lanzarote flight times to reduce his chances of being rumbled , like the c*nt who was knobing Dierdre Barlow.

Often he would return home alone and place a glass on his ear to next doors wall and have a wank over listening to his neighbour pissing then cry himself to sleep and shit his pyjamas.

I hope the rest of his life is miserable and wretched the prick.

Offline STORMTROOPER

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #299 on: March 17, 2010, 03:17:38 pm »

Some serious sense being spoke by Fat Scouser in the Auld arse thread.


i don't always see eye to eye with fat scouser but i've got to agree, that was a quality post.

Offline JP-65

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #300 on: April 7, 2010, 06:09:57 pm »
Should be in Roy's old Level thread, but...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/apr/06/question-pressing-crucial-modern-game

The Question: Why is pressing so crucial in the modern game?
Barcelona and Bayern Munich both demonstrated the value of pressing the opposition to regain possession quickly last week
   

Cesc Fabregas is tackled by Sergio Busquets: Barcelona's pressing game caused problems for Arsenal in the first leg of their Champions League quarter-final. Photograph: Shaun Botterill/Getty Images

After Valeriy Lobanovskyi's Dynamo Kyiv had beaten Zenit Leningrad 3-0 in October 1981 to seal their 10th Soviet title, the report in Sportyvna Hazeta lamented that Viktor Maslov was not alive to see his conception of the game taken to such heights. It's a shame both weren't still with us to have seen those ideas taken to another level again by Barcelona against Arsenal last Wednesday.

As many have noted over the past week, Barcelona's rapid interchange of passes, the relentless attacking and the marauding full-backs perhaps recall one of the great Brazil sides, but the underlying process by which they play comes through the line of Maslov, Rinus Michels and Lobanovskyi.

"Without the ball," Pep Guardiola said after last season's Champions League final, "we are a disastrous team, a horrible team, so we need the ball." It is a sentence that could equally be used of Arsenal: of course they are much better in possession than out of it. The difference is that Barcelona are much better at regaining possession than Arsenal.

After 20 minutes last Wednesday, Barcelona had had 72% of the possession, a barely fathomable figure against anybody, never mind against a side so noted for their passing ability as Arsenal. Their domination in that area came not so much because they are better technically – although they probably are – but because they are better at pressing. In that opening spell, Barça snapped into tackles, swirled around Arsenal, pressured them even deep in their own half. It was a remorseless, bewildering assault; there was no respite anywhere on the pitch, not even when the ball was rolled by the goalkeeper to a full-back just outside the box.

Arsenal buckled. Again and again, even players for whom composure in possession is usually a default gave the ball away. It's hard to believe Cesc Fábregas, who was admittedly possibly hampered by injury, has ever passed the ball as poorly as he did in the first half. Andrey Arshavin was so discombobulated he did a mini-Gazza and crocked his knee lunging at Sergio Busquets.

The psychological factor

This is the unspoken strength of Barcelona: they aren't just majestic in possession themselves; they also make other sides tentative in possession. Think not just of Arsenal, but of Michael Carrick and Anderson haplessly misplacing passes in Rome last May. Partly that is because Barça are so quick to close space; but it is also psychological. Barça are so good in possession, so unlikely to give the ball back, that every moment when their opponents have the ball becomes unbearably precious; even simple passes become loaded with pressure because the consequences of misplacing them are so great.

Although less spectacular in possession, Dunga's Brazil do something similar, aided, as Rob Smyth noted, by having conned the world into believing they still play in a way that they haven't since 1982. That's why so many pundits seem baffled by Brazil's recent successes in the Confederations Cup and the Copa America. John Terry, having watched from the stands as they beat England 1-0 in Doha last year, was still talking about them having "individuals who can frighten anyone one-on-on" while insisting "I don't think Brazil are anything really to worry about".

Their individuals probably aren't, but individuality is no longer their strength; their strength is their cohesion, and the discipline of their pressing which, allied to their technique when in possession, means their opponents almost never have the ball, something Wayne Rooney pointed out in a post-match interview in which his bright red face paid eloquent testament to just how much fruitless chasing he had done.

Notably, Brazil's worst recent performance came in their 1-1 draw in World Cup qualifying away to Ecuador, when only a string of saves from Julio Cesar preserved them from heavy defeat; in Quito, of course, the altitude makes the physical effort required for hard pressing far more difficult.

Shock and awe

Even in the context of their own excellence, though, Barça were exceptional in that opening 20 minutes. Which raises the question of why then, why not every game, and why not in the final 70 minutes. Perhaps an element of complacency crept in, perhaps Arsenal slowly shook themselves out of their daze and began to play, perhaps the replacement of Arshavin with Emmanuel Eboué gave them a greater defensive presence on the right; certainly those seemed to be the commonest explanations.

It is, anyway, a historical truth that when sides strike a period when everything clicks perfectly as it did for Barça in that early period, it rarely lasts more than a few minutes, even in performances held up as the greatest of all time. West Germany, for instance, only really played brilliantly for the first 35 minutes of their 3-1 win over England at Wembley in 1972. Even Hungary, in their 6-3 demolition of England in 1953, were done after 65 minutes, and had dipped towards the end of the first half. Transcendence is, by definition, very difficult to achieve and even harder to maintain.

But it may also be that Barcelona's early surge was part of a calculated plan, and that is why the comparison with Lobanovskyi seems apt, even though the more direct line of influence is through Michels and Johan Cruyff. Pressing with the intensity Barcelona achieved on Wednesday is exhausting, and cannot be kept up for long periods.

In The Methodological Basis of the Development of Training Models, the book he co-wrote with Anatoliy Zelentsov, Lobanovskyi lays out three different kinds of pressing. There is full-pressing, when opponents are hounded deep in their own half; half-pressing, when opponents are closed down only as they cross halfway; and there is false pressing, when a team pretends to press, but doesn't – that is, one player would close down the man in possession, while the others would sit off.

Particularly against technically gifted opponents, Lobanovskyi would have his sides perform the full-press early to rattle them, after which false pressing would often be enough to induce a mistake – and often, of course, his side would be comfortably ahead after the period of full-pressing.

Whether Guardiola has quite such a structured theory is unlikely, but it does seem probable that there was a conscious effort from Barcelona to impose themselves early. The only problem was that, mainly through excellent goalkeeping, and partly through ill luck and poor finishing, Barça were not ahead after 20 minutes, and Arsenal, this season, as their catalogue of decisive late goals suggests, are rather more resilient than they used to be.

Pressing back

Arsenal's attempts to respond with pressing of their own were, frankly, dismal. Allowance should be made for how shaken they were in the early minutes, but the gulf between the sides was still obvious. For pressing to be effective the team must remain compact, which is why Rafael Benítez is so often to be seen on the touchline pushing his hands towards each other as though he were playing an invisible accordion. Arrigo Sacchi said the preferred distance from centre-forward to centre-back when out of possession was 25m, but the liberalisation of the offside trap (of which more next week) has made the calculation rather more complicated.

Again and again, Arsenal's forwards would press, and a huge gap would open up between that line and the line of the midfield. Or the midfield would press, and a gap would open in front of the back four. What that means is that the player in possession can simply step round the challenger into space, or play a simple pass to a player moving into the space; the purpose of the pressing is negated. Or, if you prefer, it was as though Arsenal were false-pressing, without having achieved the first stage of the hustle which is to persuade the opposition you are good at pressing.

Even worse followed after Arsène Wenger apparently attempted to address the issue at half-time, and encouraged his back four to push up. The problem, though, is that if the timing and organisation of the step-up are amiss, a side becomes vulnerable to simple balls over the top such as led to the first goal, or through-balls such as led to the second. This has been a recurring problem for Arsenal over the past couple of years, Gabriel Agbonlahor's goal for Aston Villa at the Emirates last season being a classic example.

The Walcott protocol

What turned the game towards Arsenal – although even in the final 25 minutes when they scored twice, it would be a stretch to say they took control – was the introduction of Theo Walcott. When England beat Croatia 4-1 in Zagreb 18 months ago, he was a key player not just because he scored a hat-trick, but because his pace hit at Croatia's attacking system on their left. At Euro 2008, they had got used to Ivan Rakitic cutting in on to his right foot, with the full-back Danijel Pranjic overlapping, but Pranjic, aware of the danger of allowing Walcott to get behind him, became inhibited. He was neutralised as an attacking threat, while Rakitic became predictable, always turning infield without anybody outside him to draw the full-back – which is the downside of the inside-out winger.

By the nature of how they play, Barcelona, similarly, are vulnerable in the full-back areas. Dani Alves, in particular, is a sham of a defender – which is why Dunga prefers Maicon – but so long as Barcelona control possession it doesn't matter because his job is to be an extra man in midfield and to overlap for Messi (it may have been fear he would not be able to get forward as usual that led Guardiola to use Messi not on the right but as a false nine).

That is one of the reasons Barça's pressing is so awesome; with the full-backs pushed on, their system often appears as, effectively, a 2-5-3. To press with so many so high is a gamble, but one that has tended to be effective. Florent Malouda's performance against Alves in the second leg of the semi-final last year is an indication of what happens when the gamble fails and Barça do not control possession.

The arrival of Walcott disrupted Barça's pressing because Maxwell, like Pranjic, suddenly began looking over his shoulder (in a similar way, Charlie Davies's diagonal runs behind the full-back were a key to USA's victory over Spain at the Confederations Cup because they prevented Sergio Ramos pushing forward and so made Spain very narrow in midfield).

Samir Nasri had earlier had some success against Alves – almost all Arsenal's attacks in the first hour came through him, or through space he had created – and once Arsenal had weathered Barça's initial surge and begun to have some possession, it may be that Arshavin could have done something similar against Maxwell. Real pace, though, adds another dimension, because it means the full-back knows that as soon as the wide-man has got behind him, he has no chance of catching up. Perhaps that is an argument for Walcott starting, but then again, without Eboué last week, maybe they wouldn't have got any grip on possession.

And that, really, is the dilemma for Arsenal: attack Barcelona where they are vulnerable, by playing two out and out attacking wide-men, and the danger is you never have enough possession to make the most of that potential advantage. Concentrate on winning possession by playing more cautiously, and you may have no damaging way in which to use it.

The bigger problem, though, is the issue of pressing. Even if all else is equal, the fact remains that Barça are far, far more adept at winning the ball back than Arsenal, and that makes it all but certain they will dominate possession, and thus the game. Maslov and Lobanovskyi would have approved.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #301 on: April 9, 2010, 06:15:40 am »
^ that is a boss article


& I love this (from the Tomkin's thread)

... If you wanted to read another cliched article about what a joke Benitez is, you could have picked from scores on Monday morning.  He's one, (ONE!!!) writer who supports Benitez and tries to apply just a smidgeon of balance to a debate which has become almost perversely one-sided across the British media.

If we don't get 4th I've no doubt we'll hound Rafa out of the club and his great vision for the club will never be realised.  If Rafa is such a shit manager if he's such a joke of a coach, who makes awful signing after awful signing who always sets us up to draw with his negative tactics and can't get the best out of his players and makes bad substitutions and can't develop youth and is cold towards his players then any manager we get in will be an improvement and I look forward to the future under A.N. Other manager.  European Cups, league titles despite spending far less than our rivals...I mean it's never been done before and only one manager, Rafa Benitez has really done it in Spain and came very close to doing it in England too.  But hey, he's actually a fcking joke who merits the likes of Lee fucking Dixon and Perry Groves smirking about how bad a manager he is.  Just get rid of Benitez and all our problems will be solved.


« Last Edit: April 9, 2010, 06:24:55 am by kavah »

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #302 on: April 9, 2010, 10:31:35 am »
Lads and lasses please don't turn this into a surrogate level 3 thread. Let's keep it to the original intention of being a place where you might find good posts that you have missed elsewhere.

That pressing article is great, it should have it's own thread, prob in general footy
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #303 on: April 9, 2010, 10:34:14 am »
Yep. I wanted to start a thread specifically on Barcelona's pressing style, but that would have just been my opinions but no actual article. Should get its own thread that.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #304 on: April 9, 2010, 12:11:14 pm »
Lads and lasses please don't turn this into a surrogate level 3 thread. Let's keep it to the original intention of being a place where you might find good posts that you have missed elsewhere.

That pressing article is great, it should have it's own thread, prob in general footy

Sorry VDM, couldn't think where to post it (and I looked back 5 pages!), and I don't like to start new threads....much :)

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #305 on: April 9, 2010, 01:37:24 pm »
Lads and lasses please don't turn this into a surrogate level 3 thread. Let's keep it to the original intention of being a place where you might find good posts that you have missed elsewhere.

That pressing article is great, it should have it's own thread, prob in general footy

ooh does that mean we should start another level 3 thread so all the good stuff can be under one roof? ;D

great article by the way jp - missed it in the guardian but it sums up the general conversation at chateau hass for the past few days.

jesus barcelona are good.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #306 on: April 9, 2010, 05:28:22 pm »
Sorry VDM, couldn't think where to post it (and I looked back 5 pages!), and I don't like to start new threads....much :)
No probs mate. Thanks for posting it anyway it was an interesting read. We're just trying to improve forum and part of that is to try and encourage debate as widely as possible. To that end we'd like more interesting posts or articles starting threads and provoking discussion rather than threads developing which are in effect little clubs within the main forum.

Not that there isn't room for a bit of that too and always remembering that we don't really know what we are doing ;)
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #307 on: June 5, 2010, 05:26:46 pm »
I don't know one way or the other whether he really had reached the end of the road. From stuff percolating through today it looks as if he might well have issued his own ultimatum re funds and when told there wouldn't be any didn't have the heart, spirit, stomach, energy whatever for another season of coping with high expectation and stretched resources.

As you say the previous season was unreal from start to finish with just a few exceptions. The stuffing seemed to have been  knocked out of the entire club. The departure of three stalwarts in Xabi, Sami and Arbeloa and the Americans refusal/inability to inject the proceeds from the transfers and supplement that with the injection of say 25-30 million would surely have galvanized the entire club from top to bottom plus fan base to make that assault on the title.

Instead right from the very first pre-season friendlies we performed like a hollow shell. The life had been sucked out of us.

And crucially, Rafa seemed unable to turn the ship around especially with the injury/attitude problems of three of the mainstays of the side.

A post on another website deals pretty well with this aspect.

i've been saying since the spurs defeat on the opening day of the season that the summer hurt us

i've been thinking since the spurs defeat that gerrard didn't look that interested and that torres came out like a big petulant moaning jinny-ann

something was wrong right there

what was it

what was it that happened over the summer to turn a squad that nearly won the league to one that bitched and moaned and couldn't beat spurs

it wasn't rafa

it was the loss of belief

the players we had, whether rafa is a man-motivator or not, played out of their skins in the season before last and pulled plenty of results out of the bag after going behind - they played for him - just like they played for him 2nd half in istanbul

what turned them into non-interested 7th place dross almost immediately the season started the year before

it was that summmer

that summer when we should have pushed on

when we were so close to getting the league

when the 'usual 20 million' on top of player sales would've gotten us there

just when we were that close the owners pulled the plug

they cut the knees from under rafa, from under the fans, from under the club

they took their positive transfer balance after the alonso sale and gave it to the bank

and the players that should've come back to pre-season thinking 'this is our season'

came back thinking 'this club will never go anywhere with those two as owners'

those players are winners - they should be winning things - and they knew they most likely wouldn't here -

the writing was on the wall after last summer and the players lost heart

you could see it in the first game

now fair enough rafa didn't bring them round - he's not that sort of manager - but in ordinary circumstances he's one of the best - but I don't think he's really a siege mentality-backs to the wall- mourinho- type of psychologist

he expects players to be professional and get on with it - this season they were all feeling sorry for themselves and he's not equipped to deal with it

but personally I don't, and never will blame him for it

he was put in an impossible circumstance where a team that was on the crest of a wave and should've gone on, got a boot in the bullocks by the owners in a way that I can't conceive has ever happened in football before

i blame them, the two tumours, the two ***** - they are what's ruining us

and if rafa made bizarre substitutions/ selections last season you have to think that he was probably trying to balance those who looked interested and least affected by the owner's cancer against those who were most talented

but it's still them, the two tumours, the two ***** - whoever the next manager is, we still need rid of them before anything will ever feel right at this football club again




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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #308 on: June 10, 2010, 10:25:13 pm »
from PH on raotl:


Quote
I was lucky enough to meet him with the SOS delegation in the Autumn of 2008. We were with him for 4 hours and it was a brilliant show of natural enthusiasm and determination. He went over everything from player sales to the weakness of the board and the lack of vision which most on here already know about. He was determined to end what he saw as the 'bullying' of Liverpool FC by Fergie & his allies in management and we all know who they are! He said he couldn't believe how weak our club was when it came to standing up for themselves against the Premiership heavyweights who bullied refs/officials The FA and The Premier League hence his attack on Fergie some months later. He wanted the club to be together and for the Academy to be run professionally. He wanted a small 5000 seater stand built at the Academy so the fans could be welcomed and watch youth team games like they did at Real. He said he had requested this in the first year and he was still waiting for action it was eating away at him he would of built that stand himself you could see it in his eyes. It was not an act he loved the club and he loved the fans!

It was an indication of the way the different departments were not working together and he had a dream of a club all pulling in the same direction fighting the same cause to make Liverppol FC great again and thats obviously why he fought so hard to get overall control of the Academy in his contract. He went through all the players we missed out on due to inertia and incompetence and you could not fail to be impressed by his desire and determination for Liverpool FC to succeed . He said we might win the League that year (which we nearly) did of course but we would need all the luck we could get because we were fighting against the odds. He went through everything and even did impressions of people at the club pretending to talk into a mobile acting out what had happened when the Malouda deal was going pear shaped when he was on holiday and he was talking on his mobile in the swimming pool and Montse was telling him to relax. He even did press ups in front of us pretending to talk into a mobile that was when he was in the gym and found out all the money had been spent on a player right down on his wish list so there was none left for Barry his No 1 priority
When talking about players he said ' boys you've got to remember they are all greedy' 'except for Carra' someone replied, 'no I can assure you, he is as well' we all burst out laughing.

It was funny,inspiring and heartfelt almost like a one man play, and it will live in my memory forever, not bad for an ice cold detached manager.

And for all those who wrote about his ice cold character maybe he just thought you were pricks!


Thanks for the good times Rafa stabbed in the back by Tory dogs with no idea about football!
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #309 on: June 10, 2010, 11:06:57 pm »
from PH on raotl:



Thanks for that, not surprising, quite similar to PT's story.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #310 on: June 10, 2010, 11:15:13 pm »
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 Re: Barrett: Dalglish willing to take over (*)
« Reply #863 on: Yesterday at 08:05:57 PM »QuoteQuote from: exiledinyorkshire on Yesterday at 07:09:46 PM
Its not about him being a life line, we have all got to stop dreaming of fourth place for a while, things are only going to get worse.

From lachesis who had a very balanced view amongst everthing

I'm not dreaming of fourth place - I'm expecting it. This whole thing is a massive contradiction. Why did Rafa and the players do so poorly last season - answer when Rafa was manager? Fitness and injuries. Now? Our squad isn't good enough. By default this means that Rafa took the squad backwards then.

Our first team is strong enough to be finishing in one of the top four places. Whether it's Kenny, Roy, Sven or whoever - I would even expect Allardyce to take that team into the top four; I'd expect those players to get into the top four without a manager. That's why it really is irrelevant whether it is Sven, Roy or Kenny. Fourth place should be ours by default. We fell further than Villa and Spurs climbed. We finished seventh because we played poorly, didn't have the first team available constantly and when they were - management and players underperformed.

Let us first accept the truth - Rafa was sacked on the back of a very poor season; whether it was the real reason is again irrelevant. It was a ready made excuse. You can take into consideration the injuries, but when all is said and done there were unexplainable tactical decisions made and no sign of him getting any more out the players other than insipid performances. He deserved another season but didn't get it. I joined RAWK because I thought it was a more objective and considered forum; but these last few days have been terrible, it's like every thread hijacked, mantras being force fed, discussion discouraged.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #311 on: June 11, 2010, 12:24:41 am »
from PH on raotl:



 brilliant story, no doubt when you here this and Tomkins and the donation, where Benitez was coming from and where he wanted us, we've lost a total gem. Now that he's gone and rednapp and a few others have gone public about losing the dressing room, added to the gossip from the hamlet of liverpool, about what Gerrard and Carragher were saying to mates, it appears that these two had given up on Benitez but I wonder how much of that was because he was a hard task master that took no shit from players and didn't pander to big egos.
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #312 on: June 11, 2010, 12:29:05 am »
good idea!

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #313 on: June 11, 2010, 12:30:17 am »
from PH on raotl:



Thanks for highlighting that post. Fucking distraught again though now. It's like a Greek tragedy!

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #314 on: June 11, 2010, 03:21:56 am »
Sorry, but that post is neither important nor quality.

No context. No insight. Nothing really, apart from the position the team finished in. It may as well have been written by the board of our club that just paid our Champions League winning manager 6 mil to leave, with no replacement in sight.

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #315 on: July 19, 2010, 10:10:20 pm »
Brilliant from Chopper in the Joe Cole thread. Needs to be put in here if for no other reason than it'll get lost in there.

Paul, alas people are so entrenched in their own paranoia and doom that they miss a massive positive thing for the club, even when it walks up and bites them on the arse.
The only way this section of fans will be happy is when Liverpool Football Club is brought to it's knees (a relegation option has been bandied about), all in the name of getting rid of these two c*nts. The biggest case of cutting your nose to spite your face you will ever come across and all driven by the militant idealistic views of what our club should be like. And here we are arguing to every last farts end, the same fucking stuff, over and over again. I read a reply from a shitty daily star hack the other day and after reading through this and many other threads, I can see where he is coming from. The mentality is 'if your not with us, your against us' and if it continues like this (as SOS rightly jockeyed themselves into a position of 'nothing to do with us' from the last attempt to get people on-side) they will alienate, not just themselves but the people who are meant to be standing alongside them. Us.

I've seen the militant tendency bring this city to it's knees, they won't be doing the same with my club. Not that most of these Internet warriors have done more than 20 games in their lives or even visited this city that many times.

And feel free for any to point how these yanks are draining us, I've heard it all before, the same old fucking stuff, if one of you came up with a different angle without trying to throw it down my throat, I/we may take a different outlook and may take more of an interest, but as it stands now, we have an acquisition of a player who, to some, if not most, is the most exciting acquisition since we got Torres and all they can do is read between the lines and pour scorn on it. It's not just becoming repetitive now, it's getting to the point that I've stopped reading certain posters posts because the tone and mania it takes, and then how can they influence people, if people are unwilling to read what they say? I thought this would be a thread with some optimism but it’s fell off into the usual RAWK don’t you know whats going on blah blah blah...said as it is to say it, but that's how it comes across.

Apologies to anyone who may have been upset or feels offended by this post and let me be the first to offer anyone who feels to be aggrieved by my post a straightener outside the Harry after first home game of the season. I'll be the one with me head in a fire bucket of sand. 

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Offline amir87

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #316 on: July 19, 2010, 10:16:58 pm »
Quality post from Chopper. I didn't know he had it in him... :P

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #317 on: July 19, 2010, 10:19:39 pm »
Quality indeed. Nail on head as they say. Trenches get dug so deep...
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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #318 on: July 19, 2010, 11:32:20 pm »
Brilliant from Chopper in the Joe Cole thread. Needs to be put in here if for no other reason than it'll get lost in there.


there are some genuinely thought provoking bits in there

the militant tendency bringing the city to its knees and not Mrs Thatcher? I'd never really thought of it that way principally because its total bollocks and a re-write of history but I can see where its from, not a place i'd ever wont to visit -

paranoia and doom mongering about the club thats 400 mil in debt, growing by 50 mil a year and unable to pay those debts  compared with teh euphoria of signing of Joe Cole on a free -yep thats a balanced assessment - there should be rejoicing in the steets of Anfield tonight - we've signed the new Maradonna - he's the missing link - no doubt he's going to play left back, defensive midfield and left wing, hopping up and down that left flank on his one good leg like a gud un and paying off the debt from his own bank account:)

Joe Cole is a good player but we lost a good player in Benni - Cole may have the edge but he's still to prove himself outside of London he'll need to settle here. Its good news I think about Cole but it needs to be kept in perspective.

until this type of post is tempered with the words that the lad knows that even when we get behind the team, even if incredibly we win number 19, even then the club is still screwed - that hoping for some billionaire to step out of the shadows and save us is akin to believing in father christmas - that the only people that can save the club is us, that to do that we have to act and not sit on our arses, not cheer a team to oblivion like pompei, not ignore the bollocks in the board room like Leeds, not turn on the manager and players like Newcastle but do something about the atrocious custodians at the club, do something now not in 12 months when even the most clueless supporter has had his nose rubbed in the lies the board are pedalling, now
 
the lad doesn't need his head in a sand bucket he's got saw dust between his ears

but yeah quality post well worth remembering if only as a warning

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Re: Some quality/important posts you may have missed
« Reply #319 on: July 20, 2010, 01:56:59 am »
the militant tendency bringing the city to its knees and not Mrs Thatcher? I'd never really thought of it that way principally because its total bollocks and a re-write of history but I can see where its from, not a place i'd ever wont to visit -

Hatton bankrupt the city not Thatcher, the government reduced the amount of financial control by local councils, Hatton went back on the deal and over spent, thus bankrupting the city (a policy that is still in place to this day for central government) and then Hatton became what he supposedly once detested the most, that's why he's loved so much by all our fellow scousers, but I'm sure you know that, don't you.

As for the rest, you've plainly missed what my post was and is about, but if you don't get it, you don't get it. There's no shame in that.

That offer still stands by the way, don't worry though I'll still be able to spot you, you'll be the one sporting the massive tit on your head.

And if your up to it, feel free to quote me directly next time.

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