Author Topic: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?  (Read 101587 times)

Offline Aristotle

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #120 on: July 11, 2013, 02:21:18 pm »
people with animal instincts aka non-intelligent people

But people are animals so even the intelligence of people are by default animal instincts, no?
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #121 on: July 11, 2013, 02:26:09 pm »
But people are animals so even the intelligence of people are by default animal instincts, no?

Aristotle uses logic. This will not be effective.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #123 on: July 11, 2013, 03:07:31 pm »
people with animal instincts aka non-intelligent people


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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #124 on: July 11, 2013, 03:46:44 pm »
Am I really reading that someone thinks humans do not possess animal instincts?

Excuse me whilst I palm every available face.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #125 on: July 11, 2013, 04:53:24 pm »
cant believe what rubbish I am reading here - in the dim and distant past when I studied some anthropology I am sure it was mentioned we were in the same animal group as great apes.  We are animals for goodness sake - highly evolved ones but animals none the less.

We therefore have instincts.
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #126 on: July 11, 2013, 05:18:03 pm »
It's a belief and position I've seen employed by Creationists.....
Perhaps he's one.
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #127 on: July 11, 2013, 05:21:26 pm »
It's a belief and position I've seen employed by Creationists.....
Perhaps he's one.

He seems to be qualified.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #128 on: July 11, 2013, 05:24:05 pm »
He seems to be qualified.

It's my instinct that tells me.

Have to go, the prison guards are about to do their rounds and mustn't find me on the web in my cell......
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

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Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #129 on: July 11, 2013, 05:24:51 pm »
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #130 on: July 11, 2013, 05:56:08 pm »
You really are strange.

genius people are usually like that :P

anyway i would like to read what others have to say,with some nice conversation...silly gifs are not helping

i dont mind being wrong in philosophic conversation,because i can learn something...but i cant get wrong if i dont start from somewhere

i always thought that intelligence is related to conscience and moral values, based on that people have created laws and order

and no i dont see myself as creationist...i'm more complicated than that
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 07:41:29 pm by Pinky_Bieber »
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #131 on: July 11, 2013, 05:59:07 pm »
and no i dont see myself as creationist...i'm more complicated than that
Are humans animals?

Offline Pinky_Bieber

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #132 on: July 11, 2013, 06:02:41 pm »
Are humans animals?

are animals humans?
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #133 on: July 11, 2013, 06:04:43 pm »
are animals humans?
Can you answer the question, please?


Are humans animals?

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #134 on: July 11, 2013, 06:09:42 pm »
are animals humans?

You are being rediculous now - of course humans are animals
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #135 on: July 12, 2013, 02:28:29 pm »
Really don't want this thread to become locked because of comments which can only be described as stupid.

For those who have any doubts over which Kingdom humans (or Homo sapiens sapiens ) belong, we're part of the Animalia Kingdom  ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

genius people clowns are usually like that :P

Fixed that for you  ;)

i dont mind being wrong in philosophic conversation,because i can learn something...but i cant get wrong if i dont start from somewhere

This isn't philosophic conversation. What you're attempting to discredit here is that humans don't show instinct unlike almost every other mammal on the planet, something which has been proven for centuries by biologists, chemists, ecologists etc. With regards to your other point about prisons, I'm sure I could find, in fact I KNOW I could find members of our prison population doing life for murder, rape, serious gang related offences etc. who are far more intelligent than you.

Instinct ≠ Intelliegnce
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #136 on: July 12, 2013, 02:34:53 pm »
i dont mind being wrong in philosophic conversation,because i can learn something...but i cant get wrong if i dont start from somewhere

If you want to engage in "philosophic" conversation on this topic, or indeed if you genuinely want to learn something, may I suggest that you first read the fucking thread. Bowling in here with your frankly ignorant notions about basic biology will not help.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #137 on: July 12, 2013, 11:46:41 pm »
But how can you explain something as complex as the human eye?


















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Offline Pinky_Bieber

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #138 on: July 13, 2013, 01:21:12 pm »
Really don't want this thread to become locked because of comments which can only be described as stupid.

For those who have any doubts over which Kingdom humans (or Homo sapiens sapiens ) belong, we're part of the Animalia Kingdom  ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

Fixed that for you  ;)

This isn't philosophic conversation. What you're attempting to discredit here is that humans don't show instinct unlike almost every other mammal on the planet, something which has been proven for centuries by biologists, chemists, ecologists etc. With regards to your other point about prisons, I'm sure I could find, in fact I KNOW I could find members of our prison population doing life for murder, rape, serious gang related offences etc. who are far more intelligent than you.

Instinct ≠ Intelliegnce

no need to be so offensive...you are taking this very personal

i didnt know you have internet in prison

@corkyboy i will read it today mate
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #139 on: July 13, 2013, 10:49:54 pm »
Way off topic but...


Offline McrRed

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #140 on: July 14, 2013, 09:42:09 am »
Sorry, not read the whole thread yet but having a laugh (ta pinky la) at recent posts.

Have you covered the presence/absence of intelligence in bacteria yet (I can't play the videos on this tablet)? Notably yeast?

The idea that the yeast in our gut control what we eat by conditioning US to eat foods that are beneficial to THEM might be a conditioned reflex itself. Or it could be a sign of (a different kind of) intelligence.



And, sheesh, corkboy, that is scary!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 09:43:47 am by McrRed »

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #141 on: July 14, 2013, 10:35:37 am »
Suppose nobody ever told you as a young child what a mirror was. How long do you think it would have taken you to work it out?

I don't need to know what a mirror is to know that I'm the one in the mirror. Nobody was giving me treats every time I got it right or giving me a smack every time I got it wrong.*


Only pigeons that are trained to respond to the mirror are 'passing' - which they're not - the mirror test. You could sit another pigeon in front of it, without conditioning, for 40 years and he'd still think it's another pigeon. Dolphins, elephants, great apes and magpies wouldn't.


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Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #142 on: July 15, 2013, 12:01:59 pm »
Football without fans is nothing.

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Offline evie

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2013, 08:19:44 am »
The octopus is a funny one. I read a piece a while back on reddit about how the octopus is the only invertebrate which is protected wildlife in the UK. Then some bloke commented on the piece, saying he was a marine researcher. So he said they had these tanks side by side, with an octopus in one and some fish in the other. Every morning when they came in, there was one fewer fish. He figured out that the octopus was accessing the other tank through a very narrow connecting pipe. When he discovered this, he actually caught the octopus "in the act" about half way through the transparent pipe. The amazing thing was that the octopus saw him, knew he'd been rumbled and reversed back into his own tank!

;D

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2013, 05:27:01 pm »
India Bans Captive Dolphin Shows as ‘Morally Unacceptable’

“Whereas cetaceans in general are highly intelligent and sensitive, and various scientists who have researched dolphin behavior have suggested that the unusually high intelligence; as compared to other animals means that dolphin should be seen as ‘non-human persons’ and as such should have their own specific rights and is morally unacceptable to keep them captive for entertainment purpose,” the ministry said.

Full article

Offline Quaid

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #145 on: July 17, 2013, 09:24:30 am »
India Bans Captive Dolphin Shows as ‘Morally Unacceptable’

“Whereas cetaceans in general are highly intelligent and sensitive, and various scientists who have researched dolphin behavior have suggested that the unusually high intelligence; as compared to other animals means that dolphin should be seen as ‘non-human persons’ and as such should have their own specific rights and is morally unacceptable to keep them captive for entertainment purpose,” the ministry said.

Full article

Interesting. Although for me the priority in that region is not the welfare of captive dolphins but the level of illegal fishing which still continues to plague wild dolphins and whales within the Indian Ocean.
“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”

Offline Quaid

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #146 on: July 17, 2013, 12:11:18 pm »
When killer whales attack

On February 24 2010, news channels across the world reported that Dawn Brancheau, an experienced trainer of killer whales at SeaWorld Orlando, had been found dead in the pool. A huge male orca, Tilikum, had leapt out of the water as Brancheau had been talking about the creature to a group of visitors, grabbed her with its jaws and dragged her under the water, where she drowned.

Initially, there were calls for the “rogue” whale to be put down. But as the facts began to emerge, the story grew darker and more complicated, as revealed by Gabriela Cowperthwaite’s astonishing new documentary, Blackfish. “I first heard about the story on the news,” the director told me, on a visit to London. “I didn’t understand it. I had a lot of questions.” Those questions led Cowperthwaite to an extraordinary human drama, framed by the greater drama of our troubled relationship with animals that we claim to love, yet which we allow to be treated in appalling ways.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10172399/When-killer-whales-attack.html
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #147 on: July 19, 2013, 03:34:41 pm »
Elephant Death Rites

August 4, 2010 by Susan Canney

One of those small happenings where the elephant and the human worlds meet ….. Villagers from Wami told me about an elephant that had died nearby from natural causes (old age or disease). A group of about 6-8 elephants remained, standing around and apparently watching over the dead body which they covered with earth and branches. They stayed for around 4 days before moving on and leaving just one elephant who stayed for another 3 or 4 days before she left too.

An article the 8 Oct 2006 New York Times Magazine discusses elephant mourning in greater detail, “When an elephant dies, its family members engage in intense mourning and burial rituals, conducting weeklong vigils over the body, carefully covering it with earth and brush, revisiting the bones for years afterward, caressing the bones with their trunks, often taking turns rubbing their trunks along the teeth of a skull’s lower jaw, the way living elephants do in greeting.”

source

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #148 on: July 19, 2013, 03:46:10 pm »
Elephant Death Rites

August 4, 2010 by Susan Canney

One of those small happenings where the elephant and the human worlds meet ….. Villagers from Wami told me about an elephant that had died nearby from natural causes (old age or disease). A group of about 6-8 elephants remained, standing around and apparently watching over the dead body which they covered with earth and branches. They stayed for around 4 days before moving on and leaving just one elephant who stayed for another 3 or 4 days before she left too.

An article the 8 Oct 2006 New York Times Magazine discusses elephant mourning in greater detail, “When an elephant dies, its family members engage in intense mourning and burial rituals, conducting weeklong vigils over the body, carefully covering it with earth and brush, revisiting the bones for years afterward, caressing the bones with their trunks, often taking turns rubbing their trunks along the teeth of a skull’s lower jaw, the way living elephants do in greeting.”

source

there is no such thing like animal intelligence...Animals dont have intelligence, they have instict
“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #149 on: July 19, 2013, 03:49:59 pm »
Foiled again by Pinky and His Brain.

Offline Pinky_Bieber

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #150 on: July 19, 2013, 06:04:52 pm »
great...now animals are religious as well

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #151 on: July 19, 2013, 06:59:10 pm »
great...now animals are religious as well
No. Elephants have some understanding of mortality. I don't know where you plucked religion from.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #152 on: July 20, 2013, 08:18:19 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/H8oQBYw6xxc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/H8oQBYw6xxc</a>

Saw this just now and thought it was brilliant.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #153 on: July 21, 2013, 08:37:20 pm »

From an animals point of view, humans are arguably very stupid.
We trash or own habitat, kill each other over abstract concepts (from an animals POV at least) like politics and religion, laugh at dumb stuff on Youtube, waste valuable resources like food and shelter.
Not very intelligent behaviour.
I don't know how many times I've looked into my cat's eyes and I just know he's sitting there thinking..."wow you are one dumb motherfucker, but as long as you keep feeding me and giving me shelter, we can be buds all the same".
There's a very ancient and profound intelligence in those eyes, and I suspect when the planet finally rids itself of humanity, it'll be the cats, birds and fish in the sea, who'll have the last laugh.


Humans are most probably the stupidest animals this planet has ever had the misfortune to have to put up with.
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #154 on: July 23, 2013, 05:14:09 pm »

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #155 on: July 24, 2013, 09:23:54 am »
No. Elephants have some understanding of mortality. I don't know where you plucked religion from.

Absolutely true that, saw it on a documentary it was the first time it had been shown to happen. Experts had always claimed that elephants mourn the passing of others in their family groups, but no one had been able to prove it up to then. It was a beautiful documentary, and it clearly showed an elephant mourning the death of an important member of the group. Can't understand why people dismiss things out of hand, but I guess that's humans for you. 
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #156 on: July 24, 2013, 10:05:42 am »
Elephant Death Rites

August 4, 2010 by Susan Canney

One of those small happenings where the elephant and the human worlds meet ….. Villagers from Wami told me about an elephant that had died nearby from natural causes (old age or disease). A group of about 6-8 elephants remained, standing around and apparently watching over the dead body which they covered with earth and branches. They stayed for around 4 days before moving on and leaving just one elephant who stayed for another 3 or 4 days before she left too.

An article the 8 Oct 2006 New York Times Magazine discusses elephant mourning in greater detail, “When an elephant dies, its family members engage in intense mourning and burial rituals, conducting weeklong vigils over the body, carefully covering it with earth and brush, revisiting the bones for years afterward, caressing the bones with their trunks, often taking turns rubbing their trunks along the teeth of a skull’s lower jaw, the way living elephants do in greeting.”

source

I found that really moving. I've been lucky enough to see Afican elephants in the wild (a little too close for comfort at times) and was amazed by them and the groups that they live in.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #157 on: July 24, 2013, 10:14:55 pm »
Humans are no longer the only primate capable of recalling their own experiences from the past, claim scientists.

By: Kristian Secher

Humans are no longer the only animal capable of recalling own experiences from the past. So concludes a new study, claiming that so-called ‘autobiographical memory’ is present in chimpanzees and orangutans as well.

We have all at some point in our lives experienced how a certain sound, a specific smell or taste can make distant events from our past – good as bad – spring back to life.

Scientists refer to these flashbacks as ‘autobiographical memory’ or with a more popular term: ‘mental time travel’. It describes the ability to recall our own experiences from our past, sometimes decades back in time.

Up until now we have believed this skill a unique ability inherent to our evolved species. But a recent study challenges this conception, claiming evidence of autobiographical memory in both chimpanzees and orangutans.

”We’ve shown that chimpanzees and orangutans are capable of remembering a task of finding a hidden tool and using it correctly – even though they had only performed the task four times previously and this happened three years ago,” says lead author Gema Martin-Ordas, a postdoc from the School of Business and Social Sciences at Aarhus University.

Clever apes never forgot how to get to the food

Back in 2009, Martin-Ordas showed eight chimpanzees and four orangutans how to reach a snack using a long stick. She also demonstrated how another stick was just too short to collect the edible prize.

Later, both sticks were hidden from the apes and their task was now to locate the correct stick and use it to retrieve the food. The researcher repeated this exercise for a total of four times and then she stopped. For the next three years the apes would undergo similar tests and trials but never in the exact same way.

Until a day in 2012 when the monkeys were put in the exact same room as three years earlier and ‘asked’ to solve the exact same task.

Incredibly, all but one of the apes were able to successfully retrieve the food whereas none in a control group of eight apes knew what to do. It would seem the chimpanzees and orangutans could remember the episode three years ago and use this memory to find the long stick and use it to claim the reward.

”This implies that apes and humans have much more in common than previously known,” says co-author, Professor Dorthe Berntsen of the Department of Psychology and Behavioural Sciences at Aarhus University.

Memory brings us closer to our distant relatives

To investigate if the apes were able to remember single events, the researchers performed another experiment. Again, the apes had to watch the researchers introduce them to a tool (this time a ball) and then find it again after the researchers had hidden it. Two weeks later, the apes were brought back to the test room and upon seeing the same researchers waiting there in an identical test setup they instantly knew how to find the hidden ball and where to look for it.

Facts

This is the first time a study documents signs of autobiographical memory in apes.

Our memory forms the basis for much research due to the fact that scientists still have questions about how it works.

Experts discern between three types of memories: sensory, short-term and long-term.

They think that the hippocampus, along with our frontal cortex, plays a part in selecting which sensory and short-term memories should be stored as a long-term memory.

The complex character of the tests and the fact that the apes were able to find the tools again so readily – even after long durations of time – implies that chimps’ and orangutans’ ability to remember past events is very alike to that of humans’ autobiographical memory, say the researchers.

”We know that humans often get spontaneous autobiographical memories when they’re exposed to certain cues – just like the apes in the study. This implies that at least the spontaneous side of human memory is very old, evolutionarily speaking,” says Berntsen.

The study is published in the journal Current Biology.

source

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #158 on: July 25, 2013, 03:30:14 pm »
Dolphins 'call each other by name'

<a href="http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68894000/jpg/_68894685_68894684.jpg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/68894000/jpg/_68894685_68894684.jpg</a>

Scientists have found further evidence that dolphins call each other by "name".

Research has revealed that the marine mammals use a unique whistle to identify each other.

A team from the University of St Andrews in Scotland found that when the animals hear their own call played back to them, they respond.

The study is published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Dr Vincent Janik, from the university's Sea Mammal Research Unit, said: "(Dolphins) live in this three-dimensional environment, offshore without any kind of landmarks and they need to stay together as a group.

"These animals live in an environment where they need a very efficient system to stay in touch."

Signature whistles

It had been-long suspected that dolphins use distinctive whistles in much the same way that humans use names.

Previous research found that these calls were used frequently, and dolphins in the same groups were able to learn and copy the unusual sounds.

But this is the first time that the animals response to being addressed by their "name" has been studied.

To investigate, researchers recorded a group of wild bottlenose dolphins, capturing each animal's signature sound.

They then played these calls back using underwater speakers.

"We played signature whistles of animals in the group, we also played other whistles in their repertoire and then signature whistles of different populations - animals they had never seen in their lives," explained Dr Janik.

The researchers found that individuals only responded to their own calls, by sounding their whistle back.

The team believes the dolphins are acting like humans: when they hear their name, they answer.

Dr Janik said this skill probably came about to help the animals to stick together in a group in their vast underwater habitat.

He said: "Most of the time they can't see each other, they can't use smell underwater, which is a very important sense in mammals for recognition, and they also don't tend to hang out in one spot, so they don't have nests or burrows that they return to."

The researchers believe this is the first time this has been seen in an animal, although other studies have suggested some species of parrot may use sounds to label others in their group.

Dr Janik said that understanding how this skill evolved in parallel in very different groups of animals could tell us more about how communication developed in humans.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23410137
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“By definition, you have to live until you die. Better to make that life as complete and enjoyable an experience as possible, in case death is shite, which I suspect it will be.”