Author Topic: RIP Christopher Hitchens  (Read 43916 times)

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #120 on: January 8, 2015, 10:35:49 pm »
During that time period (Iraqi war) Hitchens got a lot of people calling him out (especially at the liberal University I was at) for his absolutely poor and condescending arguments supporting the Iraqi invasion.  Its a valid criticism.

Just because someone might write some book on one topic that resonates with you doesn't mean that person cannot also write a some really stupid nonsense on a different topic.

I didn't agree with him about Iraq, but he certainly made you think and question what you thought you knew.

Unless your mind was completely closed of course and impervious to reason. Like yours I suspect.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline chilongooner

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 746
  • There is only one Thierry Henry
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #121 on: January 9, 2015, 12:02:24 am »
I didn't agree with him about Iraq, but he certainly made you think and question what you thought you knew.

Unless your mind was completely closed of course and impervious to reason. Like yours I suspect.

Ad hominem huh?

So  someone that doesn't  have the same opinions as you has a closed mind that is "impervious to reason". Ironically your post actually reflects more a closed mind that is impervious to reason in much the same way Hitchen's comments on the war reflected a closed mind incapable of discussion and also ignorant of the facts.

And nope, his poor arguments were not even remotely compelling on that issue. Maybe you believe so but I was reading real journalism during this time.  Some snobby literary critic's factually incorrect, inexpert and condescending opinion is really not very meaningful to me on the issue of the Iraqi invasion.

You want to read what I was reading around this time? Nothing Hitchens had to say could make me question the facts.

Read  this on Bush and the WMD:
How the White House Embraced Disputed Arms Intelligence
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/international/middleeast/03tube.html?pagewanted=print&

Great article condensing a lot of other research on how utterly stupid even career military strategists and consultants and retired military felt the invasion was:
Bush's Lost Year
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/10/bushs-lost-year/303507/


^These are examples of real, factual journalism that was readily available if Hitchens actually read the magazine that paid his bills. Hitchens comes out and tries to use his reputation to dismiss the FACTS with "You said there were WMDs in Iraq and that Saddam had friends in al Qaeda. . . . Blah, blah, pants on fire."

Wow what a powerful compelling counter argument Hitchens presents "blah blah pants on fire". The problem with this arrogant man was he couldn't  actually make any factual arguments (unlike the NY  Times authors and James Fallows who I quote above). All he could do  was go on condescending polemics like calling critics of the Bush Admin at the time "sob-sister tripe pumped out by the Cindy Sheehan circus and its surrogates".

And to reference the quotes with an article that articulating reflects the view that  some have outrightly dimissed as "contemptible":

Quote
Hitchens' style—ironically, given his hatred for tyranny and love of free expression—brooked no dissent. There was little room for good-faith disagreement or loyal opposition. His enemies were not just wrong, they were stupid or mean or small-minded or liars or cheats or children or cowards. It was thrilling and gratifying to see that articulate viciousness deployed against the Clinton cartel, or Mother Teresa, or Henry Kissinger—against power and pretense. To see it deployed in favor of war, on behalf of a dullard and scion, against the hysterical mother of a dead son was nauseating.

http://gawker.com/5868761/christopher-hitchens-unforgivable-mistake
« Last Edit: January 9, 2015, 12:05:43 am by chilongooner »

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #122 on: January 9, 2015, 12:31:04 am »
Well, you could always read it....
That how it all starts, that's how they reel you in  ;D
 
Anyway a few weeks ago I bumped into someone who was worried her Brother, (who I used to knock around with) had joined a Cult or something, saying his personality has changed and he'd said some upsetting things to his Mother (who is in her 90s) something about there been no heaven and that she will rot in the ground.
He'd managed to alienate his entire family and she said he was quite abusive when questioned about why he was been like that.

So I called at his house yesterday  :)
Immediately he started going on about God, he no longer believes in God and anyone who does is willfully ignorant or just stupid. This is from someone who I would consider mildly religious for the first 50 years of his life so I asked him why the change?
He then showed me a "Hitch" vid  and proceeded to tell me what a "great man" he was, Hitch says this, Hitch says that etc
So I asked him "What do you think though ?" he then started getting a bit narky and somewhat hostile.
"So you've replaced Jesus with Hitch then" and then told him "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naught boy"  (Like Thatcher called him) which I thought might lighten the mood somewhat...He then became what could only be described as rather f*cking rude.

Now I don't know if Religion kept him in check all these years but he does seem to of had a personality transplant, he is less tolerant more abusive and quite arrogant he undoubtedly worships Hitchens and to be honest he's turned into a right nob.
However because of his age I'm also half wondering if he is ill or something.

PS
His sister is expecting a report on his cult-like behavior and I'm not really sure what to say to her.

         



 
« Last Edit: January 9, 2015, 01:17:08 am by yorkyrawky »

Offline jooneyisdagod

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,733
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #123 on: January 9, 2015, 01:35:24 am »
That how it all starts, that's how they reel you in  ;D
 
Anyway a few weeks ago I bumped into someone who was worried her Brother, (who I used to knock around with) had joined a Cult or something, saying his personality has changed and he'd said some upsetting things to his Mother (who is in her 90s) something about there been no heaven and that she will rot in the ground.
He'd managed to alienate his entire family and she said he was quite abusive when questioned about why he was been like that.

So I called at his house yesterday  :)
Immediately he started going on about God, he no longer believes in God and anyone who does is willfully ignorant or just stupid. This is from someone who I would consider mildly religious for the first 50 years of his life so I asked him why the change?
He then showed me a "Hitch" vid  and proceeded to tell me what a "great man" he was, Hitch says this, Hitch says that etc
So I asked him "What do you think though ?" he then started getting a bit narky and somewhat hostile.
"So you've replaced Jesus with Hitch then" and then told him "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naught boy"  (Like Thatcher called him) which I thought might lighten the mood somewhat...He then became what could only be described as rather f*cking rude.

Now I don't know if Religion kept him in check all these years but he does seem to of had a personality transplant, he is less tolerant more abusive and quite arrogant he undoubtedly worships Hitchens and to be honest he's turned into a right nob.
However because of his age I'm also half wondering if he is ill or something.

PS
His sister is expecting a report on his cult-like behavior and I'm not really sure what to say to her.

         



 

Let me play the smallest violin in the world for you.

The whole point of reading someone like Hitchens is feeling free to argue and debate with him. Condescending doesn't come into it unless your arguments are vacuous and he does call people out on it. I don't agree with him on the war on Iraq by the way. I never did, I considered his arguments and decided they weren't entirely meritorious. And I stuck to my opinion on Iraq. That doesn't change anything about what I think of vast swathes of the rest of his work which I think display a superlative level of literary and intellectual acumen.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline Anywhichwayicant

  • Clique member #2,367, #FakeNews. Banned Closet Bluenose. "Captain, I am sensing the bleeding obvious!"
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 36,603
  • I'm too moist and tender to retire.
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #124 on: January 9, 2015, 02:21:52 am »
Obviously a superb writer and had a lot going on up top, but when it came to Iraq he was definitely in Cuckooland.

Offline armchair-fan

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,252
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #125 on: January 9, 2015, 01:32:21 pm »
A very fine writer but he got on like a bad ted. His support of the senseless slaughter in Iraq is unforgivable, along with his about face regarding enhanced interrogation - the water boarding (OMG - it really is torture lulz) stuff was cringe worthy. He must have been really desperate for booze money at that stage of his life. A stereotyped crack whore, sucking and fucking all and sundry for a hit has more dignity that he displayed.

Shameful c*nt of a man. A two bit hack with god given talent to waste - and mostly waste it he did

You mean the senseless slaughter inflicted by Saddam on his own citizens, or the senseless slaughter inflicted on the people by the maniac jihadis?  I don't recall Hitchen's supporting either one.

Still, you'd have probably preferred us to leave them be, and by now Uday and Qusay would be in charge of the rape and robbery racket their Dad was running.

Although, since you seem unable to distinguish between admiring a writer and agreeing with them on every issue, and that people who don't agree with you are 'shameful c*nts'  I'm probably wasting my breath.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #126 on: January 9, 2015, 01:37:48 pm »
A two bit hack with god given talent to waste - and mostly waste it he did

Hack 1. a person, esp. a professional, who surrenders individual independence, integrity, belief, etc., in return for money or other reward:

So when did he do that?

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #127 on: January 9, 2015, 01:42:01 pm »
Let me play the smallest violin in the world for you.



You want me to say that to her ?

Offline armchair-fan

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,252
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #128 on: January 9, 2015, 01:43:41 pm »
You want me to say that to her ?

Maybe tell her that her brother isn't religious any longer?

Offline Conocinico

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Cameras in your food, dude.
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #129 on: January 9, 2015, 04:32:33 pm »
Still, you'd have probably preferred us to leave them be, and by now Uday and Qusay would be in charge of the rape and robbery racket their Dad was running.

Last year saw a further 2 million displaced. Last month the UN requested an extra $1.2 billion of humanitarian aid to help 5 million Iraqi citizens who are deemed to be in dire straits.

With the rise of ISIS and their unprecedented atrocities in Sunni dominated areas, the weekly suicide bombings, the mass arrests, torture and executions carried out by Iraqi security forces and so on, does any serious person still believe that "leaving them be" wasn't the least worse option?
« Last Edit: January 9, 2015, 07:05:15 pm by Conocinico »
This sentence is not provable

Offline jooneyisdagod

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,733
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #130 on: January 10, 2015, 12:50:51 am »
Last year saw a further 2 million displaced. Last month the UN requested an extra $1.2 billion of humanitarian aid to help 5 million Iraqi citizens who are deemed to be in dire straits.

With the rise of ISIS and their unprecedented atrocities in Sunni dominated areas, the weekly suicide bombings, the mass arrests, torture and executions carried out by Iraqi security forces and so on, does any serious person still believe that "leaving them be" wasn't the least worse option?

That's the way I saw it to be honest. Leaving them be for a while was the least worst thing we could have done given regional instability that was already simmering under the surface and the Baathist viciousness was pretty much the only thing keeping them from trying to tear each other's heads off. Believe me, the shias are not exactly innocent. I work with a Kurdish guy who is about 10 years older than me but acts like he's about 10 years younger until we start talking about serious stuff and it seems almost like its a release from all the shit he's seen growing up and the troubles he's faced merely because he's Kurdish.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #131 on: January 10, 2015, 12:55:59 am »
Last year saw a further 2 million displaced. Last month the UN requested an extra $1.2 billion of humanitarian aid to help 5 million Iraqi citizens who are deemed to be in dire straits.

With the rise of ISIS and their unprecedented atrocities in Sunni dominated areas, the weekly suicide bombings, the mass arrests, torture and executions carried out by Iraqi security forces and so on, does any serious person still believe that "leaving them be" wasn't the least worse option?

Who is "them"? Saddam? The genocidal butcher? The man who launched one genocide against the Kurds and a second against the Marsh Arabs. The man who invaded Iran and started a war that produced over a million battlefield deaths. The man who invaded another neighbour in Kuwait and actually annexed it? Whose Republican Guard butchered the Palestinians who'd taken refuge in Kuwait City? The man whose secret police terrorised a population for 20 years, systematically murdered political opponents, and who built Abu Graihb prison which he turned into a slaughterhouse.

You were happy with this guy in power were you? Out of sight, out of mind. Just because you had no knowledge of his millions of victims doesn't mean they don't count. Just because you never heard of his genocides doesn't mean they never happened.

Or is "them" Assad in neighbouring Syria? The other Baathist dictator - the one we left in place?  The one whose unmolested tyranny, freely supported by Russia and China, is presently not only responsible for hundreds of thousands of more deaths, but has helped generate a fanatical and murderous Islamist army in its shadow. ISIS, one might say, is what happens when the West doesn't intervene.

Hitchens dealt with these complicated issues. He knew there were contradictions in whatever stand one took. He valued Iraqi life enough to know that it was precious even when it wasn't Americans (as it usually wasn't) who were taking it. You'd do well to read him.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 12:57:33 am by Yorkykopite »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #132 on: January 10, 2015, 01:00:29 am »
It might also be said that the one unalloyed triumph of the invasion of Iraq was the creation of a viable and democratic Kurdish autonomous region. Under Saddam the Iraqi Kurds almost disappeared as a people. Right now they are the rock on which the Islamic State is breaking.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline jooneyisdagod

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,733
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #133 on: January 10, 2015, 01:09:35 am »
It might also be said that the one unalloyed triumph of the invasion of Iraq was the creation of a viable and democratic Kurdish autonomous region. Under Saddam the Iraqi Kurds almost disappeared as a people. Right now they are the rock on which the Islamic State is breaking.

This is true though. But while the Kurds are flourishing (relatively) the rest of the region is up in flames. The stability of the Kurdish region is the one positive that has come out of this all. The Kurdish are a resilient bunch though and while they were really under the cosh when Saddam was in power, the region itself is a lot worse than it was before. Ultimately, the reason the west should have stayed out is because this is a conflict that is rooted in identities that are rooted in a centuries old feud between Shia and Sunni sects. The Saudis and Iran accept that this is a proxy war between the Shias and the Sunnis. It's time the west understood that too.

Of course the pretext under which we attacked was in the end found to be completely made up. That seriously damages the credibility of the west. There was a moral case to be made for intervening in the middle east but governments at that time took the easy route and said weapons of mass destruction which shook enough people for a while for the forces to land on Iraqi shores.   
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline Conocinico

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Cameras in your food, dude.
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #134 on: January 10, 2015, 02:54:49 am »
Who is "them"?

Did you not notice the quotation marks?

Just because you had no knowledge of his millions of victims doesn't mean they don't count. Just because you never heard of his genocides doesn't mean they never happened.

...

You were happy with this guy in power were you?

...

You'd do well to read him.

Are you feeling alright?
This sentence is not provable

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #135 on: January 10, 2015, 10:40:08 am »
Did you not notice the quotation marks?

Do they change anything? Surely you're talking about leaving Saddam and his sadistic sons in power. Do tell me if I've misunderstood.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

  • Kenny's Vegan Jacket Potato. Talks more sense than me.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,450
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #136 on: January 10, 2015, 12:12:11 pm »
A very fine writer but he got on like a bad ted. His support of the senseless slaughter in Iraq is unforgivable, along with his about face regarding enhanced interrogation - the water boarding (OMG - it really is torture lulz) stuff was cringe worthy. He must have been really desperate for booze money at that stage of his life. A stereotyped crack whore, sucking and fucking all and sundry for a hit has more dignity that he displayed.

Shameful c*nt of a man. A two bit hack with god given talent to waste - and mostly waste it he did

I like listening to Hitchens lectures and reading his books and agree with most of what he says, but yuou do have a point on the Iraq thing, plus. Something that always disappointed me with Hitchens, he didnt handle Hecklers very well, especially considering his undoubted intelligence and wit.

Still I wish he was still alive. 

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2015, 03:34:57 pm »
I didn't agree with him about Iraq,

You were happy with this guy in power were you? Out of sight, out of mind. Just because you had no knowledge of his millions of victims doesn't mean they don't count. Just because you never heard of his genocides doesn't mean they never happened.

Dear me someone agrees with you but you just cant help yourself can you.
Seriously question now, are you alright ?

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #138 on: January 10, 2015, 03:58:04 pm »
Dear me someone agrees with you but you just cant help yourself can you.

Your comprehension is on a par with your writing skills.  ;D
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #139 on: January 10, 2015, 04:07:50 pm »
Maybe tell her that her brother isn't religious any longer?
They already know this, but they don't understand why he is been abrasive, abusive offensive and out and out rude.
When he was "mildly" religious he didn't bang on and on about Religion or God he barely mentioned it, now he reminds me of those "preachers" who run around Speakers Corner.
He says he doesn't feel the need to have religion in his life but without Religion he'd have nothing to rage against, personally I think he's demanding proof of God because deep down the promise just isn't enough, he seeks a guarantee and that guarantee isn't coming.
   
I believe Hitchens was also tetchy and somewhat abusive in his later years but then again he was ill. 

edited for clarity   
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 04:19:09 pm by yorkyrawky »

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 93,680
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #140 on: January 10, 2015, 04:10:34 pm »
They already know this, but they don't understand why he is been abrasive, abusive offensive and out and out rude.
When he was "mildly" religious he didn't bang on and on about Religion or God he barely mentioned it, now he reminds me of those "preachers" who run around Speakers Corner.
He says he doesn't feel the need to have religion in his life but without Religion he'd have nothing to rage against, personally I think he's demanding proof of God because deep down the promise just isn't enough, he seeks a guarantee and that guarantee isn't coming.   
I believe Hitchens was also like this in his later years but then again he was ill.   
If you really think that's what Hiitchens felt deep down, then you haven't understood a thing he's published.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #141 on: January 10, 2015, 04:14:45 pm »
Your comprehension is on a par with your writing skills.  ;D
So you did want to invade Iraq but disagreed with Hitchens on a different point about Iraq ?



Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #142 on: January 10, 2015, 04:17:11 pm »
So you did want to invade Iraq but disagreed with Hitchens on a different point about Iraq ?

I opposed the war in Iraq because I thought we needed the second resolution. He didn't. Naturally, once the war had started I was delighted to see Saddam fall. Who wasn't?
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline macca888

  • Macca the Militant Illiterate Gnok. Chief Football Hack aka macca888. Jacqui Smith and Anne Widdecombe, in any order. Or together. He's not fussy. Overdue with Crosby Nick. Recently elevated to status Sir Precious C*nt.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,860
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #143 on: January 10, 2015, 04:18:51 pm »
They already know this, but they don't understand why he is been abrasive, abusive offensive and out and out rude.
When he was "mildly" religious he didn't bang on and on about Religion or God he barely mentioned it, now he reminds me of those "preachers" who run around Speakers Corner.
He says he doesn't feel the need to have religion in his life but without Religion he'd have nothing to rage against, personally I think he's demanding proof of God because deep down the promise just isn't enough, he seeks a guarantee and that guarantee isn't coming.   
I believe Hitchens was also like this in his later years but then again he was ill.   


Or maybe he's just angry at the fact that he has been hoodwinked for so many years and wasted so much of his time listening to and believing a crock of horseshit and fairy tales, and is filling that same time railing against the very thing he had previously wasted his time on? There's no net effect in terms of time spent, but maybe he feels one is now a more constructive use of his time than the other?


As for your thoughts about Hitchens, you're either on a wind up or a bit of a tit.
Macca resplendent!
A colossus bestriding the
moral high ground as ever.

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #144 on: January 10, 2015, 06:19:49 pm »
I opposed the war in Iraq because I thought we needed the second resolution. He didn't.
Now that you have explained that better by applying your superior writing skills... Do my comprehension skills improve because of it ?


Or maybe he's just angry at the fact that he has been hoodwinked for so many years and wasted so much of his time listening to and believing a crock of horseshit and fairy tales, and is filling that same time railing against the very thing he had previously wasted his time on? There's no net effect in terms of time spent, but maybe he feels one is now a more constructive use of his time than the other?


As for your thoughts about Hitchens, you're either on a wind up or a bit of a tit.
Maybe he is but it doesn't excuse his behavior and alienating himself from his family and friends isn't really a constructive use of his time.
Ultimately his conversion has not made him a better person.

just to clarify when i say :
"He says he doesn't feel the need to have religion in his life but without Religion he'd have nothing to rage against, personally I think he's demanding proof of God because deep down the promise just isn't enough, he seeks a guarantee and that guarantee isn't coming."
I'm not talking about Hitchen.
   
 

« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 06:21:21 pm by yorkyrawky »

Offline saoirse08

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,856
  • TRUTH. JUSTICE. ACCOUNTABILITY.
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #145 on: January 10, 2015, 06:22:38 pm »
Meant to post in here on numerous occasions, but never quite found the time...

Anyway, during the 1990s I loved his writing on politics. Like many here, after the invasion of Iraq, and his cheer leading for George Bush jnr, I read him less and less. This on Tunisia was one of the last (post War on Terror) pieces I read of his.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/07/hitchens200707#

Think it's pretty risible and he, like many, obviously underestimated the Tunisian people's appetite for western freedoms (despite Ben Ali's 'benign' dictatorship and widespread corruption) as a few years later it was in Tunisia that the so-called Arab Spring began.

Getting back to his writing, during his latter years he produced some stunning literary criticism. After reading this on Richard Yates Revolutionary Road, I immediately went out and bought the novel.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/12/suburbs-of-our-discontent/307131/

During his final few month he produced this poignant and beautifully written piece on Larkin*. If I had even a fraction of the talent he possessed as a writer, I'd say more, but the piece speaks for itself. Truly wonderful prose.   

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/05/philip-larkin-the-impossible-man/308439/

*Contains Orwell too.
“The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It’s the way I see football, the way I see life.”

"The old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear."

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2015, 06:22:57 pm »
Now that you have explained that better do my comprehension skills improve because of it ?

I hope so but I doubt it.

However my advice would be to read what's written, not what you think is written. If you understand that sentence then it might help you a little bit.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2015, 07:18:49 pm »
I hope so but I doubt it.

However my advice would be to read what's written, not what you think is written. If you understand that sentence then it might help you a little bit.
Alas I fear I will never reach the superior levels of intelligence that you have reached and breached.

On a different note you know when you deliver your witty little insults to all and sundry do you imagine yourself to be smashing someone in the face with a spanner ?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 07:25:07 pm by yorkyrawky »

Online Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,234
  • The first five yards........
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2015, 07:47:27 pm »
On a different note you know when you deliver your witty little insults to all and sundry do you imagine yourself to be smashing someone in the face with a spanner ?

Certainly not! That's a horrible idea! Is that what it feels like to you?

Don't let it. These are just words.

Je Suis Charlie, as they say.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2015, 09:31:13 pm »
On a different note you know when you deliver your witty little insults to all and sundry do you imagine yourself to be smashing someone in the face with a spanner ?

Wow.

Offline Conocinico

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Cameras in your food, dude.
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2015, 09:45:18 pm »
Do they change anything? Surely you're talking about leaving Saddam and his sadistic sons in power. Do tell me if I've misunderstood.

It's just you seemed confused with who "them" referred to.
This sentence is not provable

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,621
  • Brace for Impact
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2015, 09:47:35 pm »
On a different note you know when you deliver your witty little insults to all and sundry do you imagine yourself to be smashing someone in the face with a spanner ?

:lmao

Are you a Chris Morris character? That's hilarious.

Offline Conocinico

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,661
  • Cameras in your food, dude.
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2015, 09:50:29 pm »
:lmao

Are you a Chris Morris character? That's hilarious.

It's an allusion to Orwell, I believe. A strange one though.
This sentence is not provable

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,621
  • Brace for Impact
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2015, 10:24:10 pm »
It's an allusion to Orwell, I believe. A strange one though.

Or the black and decker catalogue, strange is the word.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,362
  • Is it getting better?
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2015, 10:34:11 pm »
It's an allusion to Orwell, I believe. A strange one though.

That's what I thought too when I read it. Not that it was intentional but that was what it reminded me of.

The quote:

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,621
  • Brace for Impact
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2015, 11:02:26 pm »
That's what I thought too when I read it. Not that it was intentional but that was what it reminded me of.

The quote:

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

If he is alluding to Orwell, then it would be Coming Up For Air - "It's a picture of himself smashing people's faces in with a spanner" - what a clever boy eh?

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #156 on: January 10, 2015, 11:04:15 pm »
It's an allusion to Orwell, I believe. A strange one though.

Orwell... I'd steer clear of him if I was you, didn't he do that Animal Farm ?  F*cking disgusting video, Bestiality is a Sin (unless of course you're not religious, in which case it's not a sin.) Oh and that Big Brother is a load of sh*te too. 

Offline jooneyisdagod

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,733
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #157 on: January 12, 2015, 06:04:24 am »
You want me to say that to her ?

Please do. The lad's probably just pissed off that he was deceived for the last how many ever years of his life.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

Offline bigbonedrawky

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,322
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #158 on: January 12, 2015, 04:44:53 pm »
Please do. The lad's probably just pissed off that he was deceived for the last how many ever years of his life.
Personally I think that would come across as been a bit rude and dismissive which is the main issue she has with him.

 

Offline jooneyisdagod

  • Doesn't like having pussy round the house
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,733
Re: RIP Christopher Hitchens
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2015, 01:47:23 am »
Personally I think that would come across as been a bit rude and dismissive which is the main issue she has with him.

 

Yes, but have you thought about it for a second from the guy's point of view for even a second ? He's gone through most of his life having been deceived by members of his own family and the most he does is act a bit irritable.

And I happen to think it's entirely fine to be dismissive and disdainful with respect to religion. That's pretty much one of the rare occasions where you'll find me mention respect and religion in the same sentence.
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.