Author Topic: Lionel Messi  (Read 922719 times)

Online Lone Star Red

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7160 on: November 8, 2016, 03:06:14 pm »
On a different planet.

500 goals up for Barcelona aged 28.  8)

Except 31 of those were scored in friendly's, so he's really "only" scored 469.

Dumb marketing attempt by Barca.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7161 on: November 8, 2016, 05:47:30 pm »
Best player of all time. Appreciate him because you'll never another like him.

Goalscoring of Pele, dribbling of Maradona, playmaking of Zidane. He's a genius.
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Offline ZeusMetallica

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7162 on: November 9, 2016, 01:45:36 pm »
Best of all time for me too.

This though:




I'll never for the life of me understand the appeal of tattoos. Awful, whichever way you look at it.

Offline PhilV

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7163 on: November 9, 2016, 02:02:03 pm »
Best of all time for me too.

This though:




I'll never for the life of me understand the appeal of tattoos. Awful, whichever way you look at it.

I love tattoos, they are just an art form.

That blackout one is fucking guff though

Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7164 on: November 9, 2016, 02:08:52 pm »

I'll never for the life of me understand the appeal of tattoos. Awful, whichever way you look at it.

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7165 on: April 23, 2017, 10:26:34 pm »
He may not have (yet) accomplished anything truly special at senior international tournament level, but there can be no doubting he's the greatest club player there has ever been. And therefore, for me, the greatest, full stop.

Playing in an era when literally every second of play is recorded and put under intense scrutiny, he is as near to perfection as we'll probably ever get for a forward. No other footballer has had so much compelling evidence behind their claim to be the best. No one comes close at club level, none of the other candidates can answer those questions time and again with actual proof right before your eyes like he has, unclouded by any nostalgic embellished hero-worship eulogising. Just absolute enduring quality of the very highest standard; the sheer consistency and appetite for making a mark on big occasions will likely never be matched.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7166 on: April 23, 2017, 10:39:33 pm »
He may not have (yet) accomplished anything truly special at senior international tournament level, but there can be no doubting he's the greatest club player there has ever been. And therefore, for me, the greatest, full stop.

Playing in an era when literally every second of play is recorded and put under intense scrutiny, he is as near to perfection as we'll probably ever get for a forward. No other footballer has had so much compelling evidence behind their claim to be the best. No one comes close at club level, none of the other candidates can answer those questions time and again with actual proof right before your eyes like he has, unclouded by any nostalgic embellished hero-worship eulogising. Just absolute enduring quality of the very highest standard; the sheer consistency and appetite for making a mark on big occasions will likely never be matched.

I agree with him being the best club player ever. It's down to personal preference though if that's the be all and end all. For me I think the best player ever should be able to 'do it' at international level too where there are different demands, mainly the insane mental pressure that goes with representing your country at an international tournament. It would also demonstrate he's that good when he's not in the comfort zone of playing the one style of football he's played at club level his entire career, something the other greats all did.

Each to their own though, there's good arguments to say he is and isn't the GOAT.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7167 on: April 23, 2017, 10:41:47 pm »
It's been a pleasure watching him play over the years. In my eyes he is the best ever and will continue to be for quite some time. I can see him playing for another 10 years in a midfield role, he has the playmaking ability to do so. His passing is superb, he can prolong his career by playing there, and still score a healthy amount of goals.


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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7168 on: April 23, 2017, 10:48:40 pm »
Honestly think he would benefit so much playing in midfield. A real number 10 position (with, of course, license to do whatever he wants) and a real winger together with Suarez and Neymar would be absurd. Best player I've seen.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7169 on: April 23, 2017, 10:48:58 pm »
This thread was started in 2010 and he was already being talked about as potentially being the best of all time at 22 years old. Rightly so I might add, we've been lucky enough to have watched him his whole career and there's been very little doubt even at that age he was already up there. But reading the first page, you'd think it's absolutely crazy to say so when he still had his whole career virtually ahead of him. Mental.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7170 on: April 23, 2017, 10:50:01 pm »
Honestly think he would benefit so much playing in midfield. A real number 10 position (with, of course, license to do whatever he wants) and a real winger together with Suarez and Neymar would be absurd. Best player I've seen.

It would benefit Barca as well. They're clearly missing a player of that nature in midfield. Iniesta doesn't have the ability to play at a level he did before consistently and Rakitic can't produce what Xavi did.

Having him right behind those two up front as you say would be ideal for them.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7171 on: April 23, 2017, 10:50:38 pm »
It's obviously kind of impossible to compare him to greats of the past, because the game changes decade to decade, but I think the question you have to ask is "how would you make him better?" If he's not the greatest, then what skills did other players have that he does not?

Maybe he could work a bit harder on the defensive side? Could he be a bit taller and still retain that center of gravity he's got? It's hard for me to look at his game and not say it's as damn near perfect as humanly possible for an attacking player. And I just can't imagine a player being so elite in so many different areas: ability to go passed a man, finishing ability, his football iq and ability to see things going on around him and the weight of pass to execute some of the most ridiculous through balls I think I've ever seen. Basically he is the world's best number 8/10 playmaker who also scores 50 goals a season and goes passed opponents like the greatest winger we've ever seen. It's absurd.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7172 on: April 23, 2017, 10:56:15 pm »
Rakitic can't produce what Xavi did.
It's true, but he's a very smart player though. Not exactly mobile, strong or accurate, yet is smart with his decisions, kinda like Kuyt. Would say there's still space for him in Barca.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7173 on: April 23, 2017, 10:57:12 pm »
46 goals in all comps this season and it's not even close to being the best of his career. Absurd, he really is.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7174 on: April 23, 2017, 11:45:13 pm »
Such a pleasure watching him play week-in week-out. If you're not doing that already, then you are missing out

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7175 on: April 23, 2017, 11:56:37 pm »
46 goals in all comps this season and it's not even close to being the best of his career. Absurd, he really is.

Yeah that's the absurdity of him. This is probably not in his top 5 seasons.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7176 on: April 23, 2017, 11:56:55 pm »
Not even his countries best ever footballer, never mind being the GOAT.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7177 on: April 23, 2017, 11:58:02 pm »
He's good, but is he as good as Benteke?

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7178 on: April 24, 2017, 01:48:03 am »

Offline ElCapo

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7179 on: April 24, 2017, 03:56:58 am »
Haha

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7180 on: April 24, 2017, 04:10:02 am »
Hahaha , ridiculous. What a goal and what a player.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7181 on: April 24, 2017, 05:51:38 am »
Not even his countries best ever footballer, never mind being the GOAT.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7182 on: April 24, 2017, 07:29:14 am »
This thread was started in 2010 and he was already being talked about as potentially being the best of all time at 22 years old. Rightly so I might add, we've been lucky enough to have watched him his whole career and there's been very little doubt even at that age he was already up there. But reading the first page, you'd think it's absolutely crazy to say so when he still had his whole career virtually ahead of him. Mental.

Well, not really.

I think the hype train tends to start pretty early for a lot of the top players. Fat Ronaldo.. Neymar.. Maradona, Pele.

I think the difference with Messi is, at the age of 22 he was already one of the world's best players, and then over the course of his career he actually continued to deliver, week in week out for such a ridiculously long time. With so many other players, they basically fell over at one point or another, either because of injury, lifestyle or poor career choices. Not Messi. He's just smashed it out again and again. This is the 8th season in a row he's crossed the 40 goal mark in all competitions. That is mental.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7183 on: April 24, 2017, 09:23:06 am »
Fat Ronaldo

Really any need for such disrespect?
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Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7184 on: April 24, 2017, 10:22:35 am »
Well, not really.

I think the hype train tends to start pretty early for a lot of the top players. Fat Ronaldo.. Neymar.. Maradona, Pele.

I think the difference with Messi is, at the age of 22 he was already one of the world's best players, and then over the course of his career he actually continued to deliver, week in week out for such a ridiculously long time. With so many other players, they basically fell over at one point or another, either because of injury, lifestyle or poor career choices. Not Messi. He's just smashed it out again and again. This is the 8th season in a row he's crossed the 40 goal mark in all competitions. That is mental.

This. I never saw enough of Maradonna but I have a hard time believing he played to the same level Messi has done for such a long period of time.

Also want to add those stories we have seen about Barca selling Messi - It would take a brave brave man to push the button on selling Lionel Messi.  The fee is irrelevant, how would you justify the sale of such a player.  It's impossible.

Messi even at 32-33 will be effective as a midfield player.  His passing is superb.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 10:28:17 am by puroresu_kid »

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7185 on: April 24, 2017, 10:29:09 am »
This. I never saw enough of Maradonna but I have a hard time believing he played to the same level Messi has done for such a long period of time.

Also want to add those stories we have seen about Barca selling Messi - It would take a brave brave man to push the button on selling Lionel Messi.  The fee is irrelevant, how would you justify the sale of such a player.  It's impossible.

Well Pele did, 17 in 58 2nd top scorer in World Cup and already one of the best on the world, pushing 30 12 years later and still the best.

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7186 on: April 24, 2017, 10:33:46 am »
The thing with Maradona for me is that although he was on a completely different planet in quality terms in his era (with Cristiano Ronaldo maturing to fulfill his vast potential at more or less the same time, there hasn't been such a gulf between Messi and the best of the rest), at both club an international level where he found success, his teammates were obviously way beneath him technically but far more on his wavelength in other important physical and (most importantly) mental aspects of the game.

Those Argentina sides in particular were not a bunch of highly-talented constant national team letdowns like they have been in Messi's time - they had no Di Maria, Higuain, Aguero type flatterers. Ruggeri, Valdano, Goycochea were Maradona's strongest World Cup compadres, and not a one of them were shrinking violets; they brought it when it mattered. As much as it is utterly beyond question that Diego's astonishing gifts pulled them to heights they had no right to reach, it can also kinda help the cause to have a very solid-if-unremarkable team of reliable battlers propping up a bona fide genius or two, as opposed to a collection of flashy mercurial superstars who cannot be depended upon when crunchtime comes, which is how Messi's Argentina can be pretty fairly characterised. He has often been the one who looked most likely to haul them across the line, the producer of those standout moments when all around him have appeared lost, although obviously not in any way that could feasibly be compared to Maradona in '86. Maybe if his national team possessed less technical quality but more mental strength and physical resolve, it would've given him a firmer foundation from which to take the bull by its horns in those big tournaments? It's hard to say, but there are always factors at play other than Messi simply underperforming on his own.

Outside of those international competitions, he delivers in the biggest games, under the most intense crunch-moment circumstances, so regardless of whether he's in his comfort zone system-wise and around familiar settled Barca colleagues of many seasons (indeed, since he was a kid), it's not like he flatters to deceive. Who's to say the greatest international players were not in their own comfort zones in those national team setups where they made their biggest impacts? International squads for the big boys these days are far more widely dispersed than they used to be (not England though, obviously... heh); in the past, they were often dominated by just a few clubs in their domestic league, who would encounter each other far more regularly and get used to one another much quicker. It's difficult to pin down the exact reasons why individual footballers flourish in certain big tournaments and not others, and if your not-so-familiar teammates are pretty shit at pretty important stuff like making the right decisions when trying to set you up, protecting and making space for you, and putting away chances you lay on a plate for them, then good luck with that, whoever you are.
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Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7187 on: April 24, 2017, 10:53:20 am »
It would have helped Messi had Maradona not been his coach at the 2010 WC as let's face it, Diego Maradona is not a good manager.

He's also had to put up with Higuain bottling several international tournaments in a row.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7188 on: April 24, 2017, 11:13:09 am »
Always someone elses fault when Messi doesn't turn up to international tournaments isn't it!

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7189 on: April 24, 2017, 11:43:37 am »
Always someone elses fault when Messi doesn't turn up to international tournaments isn't it!

He has turned up to many, one person can't win you a tournament, its not how football works.

Anyone who thinks the WC is a barometer of whether youre good or not can do one anyway.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7190 on: April 24, 2017, 11:49:10 am »
Shooting accuracy, close control, weight of pass etc ... just so many attributes that I can't for the life of me see how any other footballer has been close..

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7191 on: April 24, 2017, 12:10:04 pm »
Shooting accuracy, close control, weight of pass etc ... just so many attributes that I can't for the life of me see how any other footballer has been close..
the speed he has with the ball at his feet to is incredible. its like the ball is glued to his boot

very few players can possess that ability where they dont seem to slow down when in possession.

best of all time for me.
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Offline RedSince86

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7192 on: April 24, 2017, 12:18:02 pm »
the speed he has with the ball at his feet to is incredible. its like the ball is glued to his boot

very few players can possess that ability where they dont seem to slow down when in possession.

best of all time for me.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7193 on: April 24, 2017, 12:24:06 pm »
Best player with a football at his feet the world has ever seen I think.

Older timers will of course cite Pele and Maradonna and those guys were legends, but the relentlessness of modern football now and the athleticism (look at Ronaldo) of it makes Messi a kind of Godhead figure. World Cups are increasingly commercialised crapshoot played out by knackered stars.

When Messi is singing, he glides past the world's best like they are training cones. Ramos tried the only way to stop Lionel and he turned himself into a red-carded Lummox.

Messi is so great, I wouldn't mind seeing him at Man City for a season or two, just to have him over here.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7194 on: April 24, 2017, 12:26:48 pm »
It's laughable people say he hasn't turned up in international tournaments too, he can't do everything himself.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7195 on: April 24, 2017, 12:30:08 pm »
He has turned up to many, one person can't win you a tournament, its not how football works.
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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7196 on: April 24, 2017, 12:38:59 pm »
Maradona says Hi.
Burruchaga says hi too....

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7197 on: April 24, 2017, 12:39:37 pm »
I just feel football is so different now to when Maradona played it is hard to compare them.

If you look at the stats, then you'd have to say Messi is better. 

But the game is so much easier now for attacking players, as they do not get the tough treatment like they used to.

Maradona would get kicked all game, but he would still produce brilliance.  Could Messi cope with that?  Maybe, probably - we'll never know.

I wouldn't like to say who has been the best ever.  But Messi is certainly the best now and a joy to watch.

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Re: Lionel Messi
« Reply #7198 on: April 24, 2017, 12:43:11 pm »
Maradona says Hi.
As good as Maradon was, he also had someone like Valdano (who scored 4 goals) to help take the burden off him.

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Lionel Messi
« Reply #7199 on: April 24, 2017, 12:44:11 pm »
Burruchaga says hi too....
Maradona's stats at the '86 WC - 3 assists vs South Korea, a goal against Italy, an assist vs Bulgaria, 2 goals vs England and Belgium and another assist in the final. And he had also a wrongfully disallowed goal vs Uruguay and hit the crossbar multiple times across all 7 games. He dragged Argentina to the title on his own making a vital contribution in every game.  So yeah, a single player can win you the world cup.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness.