Author Topic: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....  (Read 43222 times)

Offline seal75

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #680 on: December 31, 2011, 03:05:27 am »
I think this is the main issue that is giving Carroll the negative press. He doesn't (yet) know when to run into space for the return ball but I think this will come - but I fear this is instinct and not something that is learned.

As for him coming towards the front post then I agree but he expects the ball to be floated over onto his head instead of attacking the space.

In a way Suarez being out may help his game as he and the rest of the team may start to get to know each other better.

I like the above post that says that we need to get in better crosses for Carroll and this may result in dragging defenders out to stop the crosses - this will open up space for the other quicker forwards like Suarez and Bellamy.
A striker's positioning can be taught but it's better when they possess that instinct naturally.
In Andy's case I don't know yet if he has that quality, but his confidence is an issue; he's unwilling to take the goalscoring positions a striker generally takes when an opportunity presents itself. A numerous of times, I've seen him hide himself today. That occurs when a striker is low on confidence. He's so obsessed about not to waste an opportunity that he prefers not to put himself in the right position to score (in fact, taking a position where he can't get the ball at all).

The next step for him I think, is to surpass that mental barrier.

And after that, he must adapt himself to his team mates, and not the opposite (there are not so many players who can cross a ball as accurately as Gerrard does).
That's why he must learn to anticipate thoses crosses into the box.
If the striker is very good, even a bad cross can be converted into a goalscoring opportunity.
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Offline lamonti

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #681 on: December 31, 2011, 03:06:06 am »
I fucking knew Gerrard would be the one to get the best out of Carroll. Someone posted a video of all his assists for Liverpool recently on youtube and what struck was how much Torres and Heskey and Owen owed the best years of their careers to him and his unbelievable delivery from the right. Within about ten minutes of coming on, he had put in three of the best crosses Andy Carroll has been given all season. They were, to make a very crude comparison, a lot like the ball from Barton and Nolan that AC seemed to thrive on last season, early (so he's competing one on one in the air, where he's tough beat) and whipped in from quite deep so that he can attack them, rather than trying to land them on his head from the byline.

As for Gerrard, I still forget how good he is sometimes and end up regret any of the bitching I've done about him. Hope to fuck he can stay fit for a long time because he is still the best footballer in our club. There'll never be another one like him.

Very enjoyable performance, I think we're much better with five in midfield but we really need to solve the problem of who plays in the hole - whether it will be Gerrard, Suarez or someone new. Henderson, Kuyt and Maxi don't really quite cut it in such a pivotal position.

Offline jckliew

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #682 on: December 31, 2011, 03:10:16 am »




If the striker is very good, even a bad cross can be converted into a goalscoring opportunity.

like ba?   :)
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Offline seal75

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #683 on: December 31, 2011, 03:14:45 am »
if downing was half a stevie at crosses we would be world beaters.  ;)
That's not an excuse I'm afraid.
We've got a big lad forward who was hiding himself from his responsibilities (dropping in midfield a numerous of times when no need to) till the "Boss" came on and stamped his authority.
When you've got a guy like gerrard just behind you, you can't hide anymore, whatever you do he'll find you!
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Offline seal75

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #684 on: December 31, 2011, 03:19:40 am »
like ba?   :)
Ba is a good one. He's not afraid at all to have a go. You can feel he's a man full of confidence.
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Offline Discipline

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #685 on: December 31, 2011, 03:21:17 am »
I seem to recall him walking over to the players looking really pissed off when they were celebrating the goal. I'll have to watch again but I'm pretty certain that Carroll just strolled over and I think Skrtel gave him a pat on the back to what seemed to be an attempt to lift his spirits.

He looks serious because of the black guy. That sounds stupid, but it's true.

He did celebrate all 3 goals.
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Offline Lenin.

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #686 on: December 31, 2011, 03:25:35 am »
That's not an excuse I'm afraid.
We've got a big lad forward who was hiding himself from his responsibilities (dropping in midfield a numerous of times when no need to) till the "Boss" came on and stamped his authority.
When you've got a guy like gerrard just behind you, you can't hide anymore, whatever you do he'll find you!
I saw Andy run 50 yards back into midfield at one point when Newcastle had put together 50 passes without us making a challenge.
Oh you English are SO superior aren't you? Well, would you like to know where you'd be without US the good old U.S. of A. to protect you? I'll tell you. The smallest fucking province in the Russian Empire, that's where! If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German, singing, "Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles!"

Offline Samee

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #687 on: December 31, 2011, 03:25:46 am »
He looks serious because of the black guy. That sounds stupid, but it's true.

He did celebrate all 3 goals.

I think you mean black eye mate. :lmao
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Offline CorKopite

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #688 on: December 31, 2011, 03:25:59 am »
I seem to recall him walking over to the players looking really pissed off when they were celebrating the goal. I'll have to watch again but I'm pretty certain that Carroll just strolled over and I think Skrtel gave him a pat on the back to what seemed to be an attempt to lift his spirits.
He didn't look pissed off at all...

He just didn't want to rub it in because he was playing against his former and boyhood club. Fair play to him. He was clearly happy we had scored though.
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Offline neopulian

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #689 on: December 31, 2011, 03:28:18 am »
My main worry with Carroll, and it happened a few times today, was he was game so deep at times. He's not the most mobile of strikers, so if we get lucky on a counter attack we've no striker in the box, or further upfield. I thought on one or two occassions today if Carroll was further up the field, he might have had a couple of extra shots on target.

His first half display was atrocious. It's ok if you want to get involved and meddle in midfield. But after a lay off, you'd better run like mad to get into attacking position. He never did. As results, our flankers either had no one to aim at or their crosses and cut-backs had no one attacking them. And when he wasn't staying behind the play, he often attacks the goddamn far post where there were usually 3-4 people standing between him and the ball. His first half performance was worse than Heskey at his worst.

Offline seal75

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #690 on: December 31, 2011, 03:32:21 am »
I saw Andy run 50 yards back into midfield at one point when Newcastle had put together 50 passes without us making a challenge.
When you're a striker and you know you're doing nothing great all match and you're low on confidence, what you tend to do is try to help the team in some ways instead of standing there and doing nothing. You tell yourself, "at least the manager can see I'm making some efforts and running"  ;)
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Offline Red Scouse

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #691 on: December 31, 2011, 03:32:33 am »
Ouch.  What was your take on the match then?

I posted my thoughts a few pages back.

Offline Lenin.

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #692 on: December 31, 2011, 03:32:46 am »
His first half display was atrocious. It's ok if you want to get involved and meddle in midfield. But after a lay off, you'd better run like mad to get into attacking position. He never did. As results, our flankers either had no one to aim at or their crosses and cut-backs had no one attacking them. And when he wasn't staying behind the play, he often attacks the goddamn far post where there were usually 3-4 people standing between him and the ball. His first half performance was worse than Heskey at his worst.
My Sweet Lord...................


Oh you English are SO superior aren't you? Well, would you like to know where you'd be without US the good old U.S. of A. to protect you? I'll tell you. The smallest fucking province in the Russian Empire, that's where! If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German, singing, "Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles!"

Offline neopulian

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #693 on: December 31, 2011, 03:34:34 am »
My Sweet Lord...................




I don't expect you to understand the intricacy of the game, nor do I like your screen-name. So lets stop right here and pretend not to see one another.

Offline Lenin.

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #694 on: December 31, 2011, 03:34:39 am »
When you're a striker and you know you're doing nothing great all match and you're low on confidence, what you tend to do is try to help the team in some ways instead of standing there and doing nothing. You tell yourself, "at least the manager can see I'm making some efforts and running"  ;)
Oh, I just thought, we cant get the ball off them.
Oh you English are SO superior aren't you? Well, would you like to know where you'd be without US the good old U.S. of A. to protect you? I'll tell you. The smallest fucking province in the Russian Empire, that's where! If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German, singing, "Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles!"

Offline jckliew

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #695 on: December 31, 2011, 03:40:18 am »
biggest  positives

stevies back!
came from behind to win
we scored THREE goals
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Offline Lenin.

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #696 on: December 31, 2011, 03:44:10 am »
I don't expect you to understand the intricacy of the game, nor do I like your screen-name. So lets stop right here and pretend not to see one another.
Tactically, I haven't got a clue. 'Screen name' wise, I prefer Bourbons.  ;)
Oh you English are SO superior aren't you? Well, would you like to know where you'd be without US the good old U.S. of A. to protect you? I'll tell you. The smallest fucking province in the Russian Empire, that's where! If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German, singing, "Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles!"

Offline Matt8Pie

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #697 on: December 31, 2011, 03:46:36 am »
He didn't look pissed off at all...

He just didn't want to rub it in because he was playing against his former and boyhood club. Fair play to him. He was clearly happy we had scored though.

Fair enough mate. I'll have another watch tomorrow at some point but from first impressions, it just seemed like he was a bit annoyed - not by the fact that we'd scored against his old team, but moreso to do with his own performance and not scoring one himself.
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Offline neopulian

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #698 on: December 31, 2011, 03:52:30 am »
Tactically, I haven't got a clue. 'Screen name' wise, I prefer Bourbons.  ;)

That's very nice of you. My apology.

Offline gandalf50

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #699 on: December 31, 2011, 03:54:12 am »
Alright Stewart keep it up!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 03:55:57 am by gandalf50 »
There really isn't.  I think a lot of us, even our own have started doubting it. It's time to rise up. And take what is rightfully ours. It's a big mountain, but what is the point in achieving something, which everyone can?

Fate has given us a mountain too big. We have to rise. We have to believe.

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Offline Matt8Pie

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #700 on: December 31, 2011, 03:57:23 am »
Are all of your 6K+ posts as inane as the ones you are making tonight?

Well, if you'd like to elaborate on what you find "inane" about what I've posted tonight regarding the match, I'd be more than happy to have a reasoned discussion with you about it. If you wanna bring my post count into it and suggest I'm not adding anything of value, then I suggest you reconsider pressing the reply button before  posting something that adds no value yourself and just skip on by my posts. If, however, your question is sincere and you genuinely want to know the answer, might I direct you to the "view posts" button located within my forum profile where you can read all 6000+ posts yourself and come to a conclusion. That might have saved you asking. 

Like I said, I'm more than happy to have a discussion with you though.
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Offline Danny_

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #701 on: December 31, 2011, 03:57:41 am »
I fucking knew Gerrard would be the one to get the best out of Carroll. Someone posted a video of all his assists for Liverpool recently on youtube and what struck was how much Torres and Heskey and Owen owed the best years of their careers to him and his unbelievable delivery from the right. Within about ten minutes of coming on, he had put in three of the best crosses Andy Carroll has been given all season. They were, to make a very crude comparison, a lot like the ball from Barton and Nolan that AC seemed to thrive on last season, early (so he's competing one on one in the air, where he's tough beat) and whipped in from quite deep so that he can attack them, rather than trying to land them on his head from the byline.

As for Gerrard, I still forget how good he is sometimes and end up regret any of the bitching I've done about him. Hope to fuck he can stay fit for a long time because he is still the best footballer in our club. There'll never be another one like him.

Very enjoyable performance, I think we're much better with five in midfield but we really need to solve the problem of who plays in the hole - whether it will be Gerrard, Suarez or someone new. Henderson, Kuyt and Maxi don't really quite cut it in such a pivotal position.

Lets face it.  Torres didn't owe him anything.  He was pretty damn good without him in the team as well.    You might have more of a point about Heskey and Owen but not really. 

Offline woof

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #702 on: December 31, 2011, 04:01:47 am »
Knew the result before the match kicked off. Why? Because Newcastle are not a bottom team!

Offline seal75

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #703 on: December 31, 2011, 04:05:40 am »
Knew the result before the match kicked off. Why? Because Newcastle are not a bottom team!
So, will we win against City?  ;D
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Offline woof

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #704 on: December 31, 2011, 04:22:02 am »
Perhaps Downing and Adam will get some tips from Gerrard on how to deliver the ball to Carroll. Andy is one of ours so we all hope to see him flourish as one of our main strikers. However, he needs to run more and get into position. Often he just walks after laying the ball off.

Offline staalpete

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #705 on: December 31, 2011, 04:24:26 am »
crowded road ends before it begins, so so happy, well in lads

Offline ThingOnASpring

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #706 on: December 31, 2011, 04:26:51 am »
That's not an excuse I'm afraid.
We've got a big lad forward who was hiding himself from his responsibilities (dropping in midfield a numerous of times when no need to) till the "Boss" came on and stamped his authority.
When you've got a guy like gerrard just behind you, you can't hide anymore, whatever you do he'll find you!

Or, you could look at it the other way. We had a striker desperate to contribute to the team, and to be seen to do so. Then when a player comes in who can cover the space he was attempting to cover, he got himself back where he should be, and showed what could potentially happen. I could be wrong, often am, but more than one way of looking at things
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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #707 on: December 31, 2011, 04:27:11 am »
Perhaps Downing and Adam will get some tips from Gerrard on how to deliver the ball to Carroll. Andy is one of ours so we all hope to see him flourish as one of our main strikers. However, he needs to run more and get into position. Often he just walks after laying the ball off.

Can you explain the bolded part for me. Genuine question.
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Offline staalpete

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #708 on: December 31, 2011, 04:29:33 am »
Gustav, really?

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #709 on: December 31, 2011, 04:33:49 am »
Can you explain the bolded part for me. Genuine question.

Maybe he means Andy plays for us.
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Offline woof

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #710 on: December 31, 2011, 04:34:58 am »
Can you explain the bolded part for me. Genuine question.
Our player. One of us.

The point is: Don't write him off yet but he needs to buck up

Offline danwarb

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #711 on: December 31, 2011, 04:38:31 am »
Lets face it.  Torres didn't owe him anything.  He was pretty damn good without him in the team as well.    You might have more of a point about Heskey and Owen but not really.
I think he'd be scoring more goals now with Gerrard behind him, his "best-ever strike partner."
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 04:40:10 am by danwarb »

Offline shawnk

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #712 on: December 31, 2011, 04:50:08 am »
Legend salutes legend

Won't see this much in our lifetime!

Offline abs-ibs

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #713 on: December 31, 2011, 05:23:52 am »
Although I recently watched the youtube Gerrard's assists vid, I had forgot how amazing the guy is in midfield. Really stood head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch last night. Fantastic stuff. Pity Carroll's confidence is a bit low at the moment, he could of had a brace last night. Both supplied by Mr Stevie G.

All in all, I'm absolutely chuffed we won.

Pepe was unlucky with the deflection, was going the right way of the ball trajectory untill it hit Agger. :(

Skrtel and Agger were really really good, and THAT clearance - WOW. Fantastic stuff.

Johnno and Enrique were also superb. (Does Enrique eat bricks for breakfast or sumthin?)

Jay was really steady and reliable.

Henderson went missing alot first half played better when SG came on.

Adam maybe tried too hard and so fukked up a fair bit, no composure etc, and set pieces weren't too good.

Downing played really well, just cant keep the ball down when shooting at the moment.

Bellamy was his usual gritty self, skillful and hardworking. Deserved the goals.
 
Carroll. Showed a lack of confidence in the beginning, but when Gerrard started supplying him with decent balls and crosses, we now can see why we bought him in the first place, looking promising :)

I don't like bitching about our players, I prefer to look at their good qualities.  Overly critisising a person or player to me shows that you are a glass is half-empty type of person. But..........

Adam was diabolical tonight. I'm really on the fence about his ability to make it here. I do actually like him but his set pieces hav been awful bar Suarez' first goal, his short passing hasn't been brilliant and after watching Stevie again, really showed the gulf in class unfortunately.

Henderson also really dissappointed me in the 1st half. Just did not get stuck in on any 50/50 loose balls and didn't really do much at all. He set up Stevie, but not much else. Probably the worst match he has had for us.

Henderson is young and has time to grow into the shirt so to speak. Adam doesn't have that luxury. Jonjo could be better than Adam at the moment. But I really wish we had Aquilani back, I really do. Someone more precise in passing, more intelligent off and on the ball. I wasn't Rafa's biggest fan, but I have to admit he could pick 1 damn good midfielder. Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Lucas and Aquilani. We need midfield players of this quality to get higher up in the league.

For me Adam and to a lesser degree Henderson aren't quite in the top echelon of players that will give us that extra umph into the CL. Henderson IS very young and inexperienced at this level (LFC level - not Sunderland level), so I don't mind him being used and played, I just wish he'd get stuck in a bit more.

A pity that Charlie boy isn't doin that well atm, as he tries very hard and he did play a blinder vs Chelsea, but his inconsistency is damaging. Maybe with Stevie back Adam will be rotated more and this will give him more impetus to improve his game. If not we need an upgrade. A pity Lucas got injured just as Gerrard was to return. The way Lucas has improved over the past two and a half seasons is immense. Him and SG in midfield would be perfect.

Offline woof

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #714 on: December 31, 2011, 05:49:46 am »
We need to build on this win and show Manchester City we are a top side

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #715 on: December 31, 2011, 05:57:32 am »
Delighted with the win. Good to see a sharp Stevie return, Skrtel what a clearance, even our players were thinking that was in.

Offline woof

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #716 on: December 31, 2011, 05:59:21 am »
Just watched Bellamy's first goal again and it's even more amazing because there were 6 Newcastle players in front of the goal including Krul when he shot it past all of them!!

Offline Discipline

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #717 on: December 31, 2011, 05:59:38 am »
I think you mean black eye mate. :lmao

I honestly do. :lmao
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Offline Armand9

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #718 on: December 31, 2011, 06:00:49 am »
Plenty of positives and a great result

It's never good conceeding a goal but in a way it was a good thing in that we've come from behind - something we've struggled to do since 08/09, which will hopefully instil some confidence next time it happens.

The game changed when stevie came on, pure class act, carroll looked a better player instantly (sure he's a work in progress but it's undeniable that the service for his strengths has been average to poor generally) and was unlucky not to score with his header (altho should've done better with his feet from that great ball from stevie), amazing clearance by skirts, great game from bellamy, oh and i love agger's runs. We seemed a tad flat at times which allowed them little spells in the game but for the most part kept them quiet but we were a bit lacking for some quality in the final third - downing did well but his final ball wasn't great. Stevie comes on, quality balls into the box immediately and all of a sudden carroll looks a threat - it's not a coincidence.... Up until that point our only real threat seemed to be Craig Douglas Bellamy.

Still plenty of work to do but the lads did well and put a smile on our faces, guess you can't ask for too much more really

best moment of the match? kenny and stevie, loved it

From the newcastle perpective, they did ok in two shortish spells but rarely threatened and cabaye can count himself lucky not to be red carded, legbreaker of a challenge, coward's OTT tackle, wasn't looking at the ball, only had eyes for spearing - if the FA decide to review it i can see a retrospective ban on the cards (compare that challenge to spearing's red at fulham and the wolves guy against arsenal - neither of which were even yellow to me - and they're chalk and cheese, their's were genuine attempts to win the ball, his a legbreaker aimed at the man).

The elbow on bellamy, I'm not sure what to make of it, he didn't swing it but had it there to protect the ball/space but clearly caught bellamy in the process - it wasn't a case of Craig Douglas Bellamy just running into him. thought he could've at least have apologised or something, i don't know maybe he did and they just didn't show it on tv but poor form if he didn't.

Suarez was missed, naturally, which was obvious by the drop in chances created but good the lads did the job without him and i can't wait to see stevie and suarez get a run of games together.
Losing your only chance of silverware this season to your city rival. At home. With the most expensive squad ever assembled.

Have that, you arrogant wanker. CarraG238

Offline Jagged Princess

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #719 on: December 31, 2011, 06:44:50 am »
I’m happy with that win and got what I wished for anyway …. ending the year on a high. 

I thought overall we played quite well; I’m not sure Gerrard deserved man of the match, thought Bellamy was more deserving and it was nice to see Henderson getting more involved.

The only criticism I have is that I notice some of the posters on here who seem to constantly whinge and moan in the pre- and post-match threads haven’t been in here to comment after a win. 
"... I can only add that the Liverpool fans know the story and the truth. And they know that it is easy to pass judgment if you have been in power for 24 years."  Rafa Benitez 18.09.10