Author Topic: It's just a battle for the order of the first 4 spots now between 5 teams...  (Read 554939 times)

Offline Jon2lfc

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After this weekend's results there is now a 6pt gap between us in 4th, and Chelsea in 3rd.

It looks like 2 packs chasing 2 'prizes':

1) Arsenal, Man City, and Chelsea (separated by 2pts) fighting it out for the title.
2) And us, Spurs, and Everton (separated by 2pts) fighting it out for 4th spot.

If all the above team's current form continues as it is, we are in for quite a battle for 4th, let alone 3rd.
I think we will do it, mind you. Due to the fact that we've been more consistently in the top 4 all season than Spurs and Everton.
Plus, we have players coming back, Brendan should be learning from our setbacks against Hull, Southampton, and Villa, and we have an ability to score against anyone right now.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 06:08:29 pm by Alan_X »

Offline simply_red

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 07:49:27 pm »
It's actually us, Everton, Spurs and United in for 4th whether we like it or not.
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Offline lessthanmatt

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2014, 07:50:52 pm »
City nailed on title winners for me. Almost sure of Chelsea in second. Probably Arsenal third, but not too confident on that. We just need to finish above Spurs, Everton and United and make games like yesterday count more than a point
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2014, 07:51:08 pm »
I reckon we'll sneak 3rd as Arsenal will falter.. Need to replace Lucas and stop with the silly cocky tactics.. Stick to 433 and do what we do best, high pressing, ball retention.. Death by Football.

Offline SlowRap

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2014, 07:54:28 pm »
Yep we're in the pack containing Spurs, Everton and United
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Offline naka

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2014, 07:55:23 pm »
Am really worried about spurs
They haven't played well and are level with us.

Online Draex

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2014, 07:56:41 pm »
Am really worried about spurs
They haven't played well and are level with us.

Well we've hardly played well bar v's them realistically and are still 4th ;)

Offline Jon2lfc

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2014, 07:59:00 pm »
How can people see Man U in the battle for 4th, based on form over the last few games?
They are 6pts behind us. We are 6pts behind Chelsea.
They are as equally close to us as we are to Chelsea. Yet, I can see us being closer to Chelsea come the end of the season yet cannot see Utd finish above us or Everton.

United under Moyes do not look like a top 4 side.

That's why I have not even considered them in the battle for 4th.

Offline Il Capitano

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2014, 08:01:26 pm »
It's actually us, Everton, Spurs and United in for 4th whether we like it or not.

Why is that, because you say so?

Offline simply_red

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2014, 08:01:32 pm »
How can people see Man U in the battle for 4th, based on form over the last few games?
They are 6pts behind us. We are 6pts behind Chelsea.
They are as equally close to us as we are to Chelsea. Yet, I can see us being closer to Chelsea come the end of the season yet cannot see Utd finish above us or Everton.

United under Moyes do not look like a top 4 side.

That's why I have not even considered them in the battle for 4th.

Draex is right...we've hardly played well.

6 points is not a big difference between two inconstant teams, plus they have us at OT in March.

Going to be an exciting bumpy ride but I'd still be dissapointed if we don't make the top 4.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 08:03:23 pm »
How can people see Man U in the battle for 4th, based on form over the last few games?

They have Rooney and RvP to come back, those players can win games by themselves so they cannot be ruled out just yet.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2014, 08:04:36 pm »
really is a battle for 4th, pleased we are in it to be honest! been the most exciting season for years in terms of the battle for top spots.

mathematically we can still win the league comfy but our defence, usually the most reliable part of the team, gives our attackers too much to do. live in hope of ofc but theres no way I think we can win it this year.
- all in my opinion of course -

Offline Haggis36

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2014, 08:04:45 pm »
Definitely a battle for fourth now, there is no realistic chance of all three teams above us faltering and us being able to capitalise on it. City in particular look unstoppable, and I'd be surprised if they dropped more than 2-3 points at home for the rest of the season, and who is going to shut them out on the road? Arsenal and Chelsea just keep grinding out results, usually when not even at their best. We, on the other hand, are wildly inconsistent.

I think the fight for fourth is going to be massively, massively tough. United are absolutely in the conversation but I'd say have the worse chances out of the four teams scrapping for it. Spurs I have no fucking clue I stopped trying to understand them a while ago. Everton are a much bigger threat than some on here would like to admit though. Derby game is massive in this respect - if we win it I think it could give us the psychological boost to go on and do it.

We've got players to come back and (hopefully) re-inforce our defence, but we need to make sure we're not hamstrung by the games we play without them. Concede as many goals as we have been and there's no chance imo. Depth at midfield is also a massive issue. I think we have the players for it, a lot will depend on injuries and the approach we use going forward. I'm nowhere near as confident as I was back in December.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 08:06:16 pm by holymoly »

Offline stockdam

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2014, 08:05:15 pm »
How can people see Man U in the battle for 4th, based on form over the last few games?
They are 6pts behind us. We are 6pts behind Chelsea.

Our form hasn't been stellar either. We were top of the league on Boxing Day and less than a month later we are talking about 4th. A couple of bad results and Utd will be level. So they are still in the race for 4th.
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Offline simply_red

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2014, 08:05:21 pm »
Why is that, because you say so?

Unlike you and many dreaming rawkites I'm a REALISTIC person.
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2014, 08:05:25 pm »
They have Rooney and RvP to come back, those players can win games by themselves so they cannot be ruled out just yet.

And then they'll be out of action again. Gotta run dem laps.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2014, 08:05:56 pm »
IF the twats beat us at their place their 3 behind  though...lets leave them in the race at least for now..
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2014, 08:06:14 pm »
Unlike you and many dreaming rawkites I'm a REALISTIC person.

You are, huh?

Tottenham, Everton and ourselves are all on course to finish on 74 points or nearly so.

I think it's safe to say that 72 is the absolute minimum it will take to get into the top 4, and that's if all three of us struggle a bit for the rest of the season.

Having postulated that it will take at least 72 points to get into the top 4, United are done.  Done.  They are averaging 1.68 points/game, on pace for almost 64 points.  To get to 72 (and remember, realistically it will probably really take 74-75 to get ahead of all three of the other teams), they need to earn 2.19 points/game from here on. 

That means they need to start playing borderline title-winning form (that rate would put them in the mid 80's over a season, which will probably win the league or very nearly so this season) for the rest of the season.  They'd have to go undefeated or win at least 10 of their last 16 games.

It is not happening.  Barring an absolute Istanbul-level comeback, there is no way they are getting into the CL places this season.  Quote me on this.  They can spend 100 million on massive players, whatever, all it will do is get them closer.  There is virtually no chance all three of Liverpool, Spurs and Everton all collapse to the level we would need to get them to fourth.

Offline Penfold78

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2014, 08:07:21 pm »
 Looking at our remaining fixtures and reflecting on our average form over the last six weeks, I think we will be 5th placed. I can see Man Utd slowly improving. Spurs look like they're getting up a head of steam too. All in all, if you believe 4th place is some kind of magical key to the promised land (I'm a bit skeptical about that) then you're going to be in for a nail biting few months. Bring it on!

Offline BazC

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2014, 08:15:51 pm »
I think it's been pretty clear we've been in the race for 4th with Spurs, Man Utd and Everton since after the Christmas/NY fixtures. Of course, we can still haul ourselves back into a title challenge, but there're 3 teams who're getting better results, and 2 of them have large squads for when things get stretched a bit. Any chance of a title shot hinges on us beating them all when they come to Anfield and even then, you'd not expect us to make up so many points on all of them (perhaps Arsenal get dragged into a battle for 3rd-4th places, but they've been consistently good this season thus far, and also have the best defence in the league - which is a great foundation to have).

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Offline robgomm

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2014, 08:18:31 pm »
We're better aiming to catch up with the teams ahead of us than worrying about the teams behind us.

Offline Just Dan

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2014, 08:24:20 pm »
If we can beat Spurs and Everton at home. Get something at OT and win 2 out of Chelsea at home, Man City at home and Arsenal at home and dont drop points to teams we should be beating, like vs. Villa.

We SHOULD be alright for top 4.

I dont think it will go to plan though and I think it will go to the wire on the last day for 4th. I hope I'm wrong. I hope we have it in the bag with games to go, but whether we like it or not, thats unrealistic and highly unlikely. There will be more attention and drama for 4th position on the last day, than there will be for 1st IMO.

Man City have won it as far as I'm concerned. They just score so many bloody goals. I'd like Arsenal to go all the way, but in all likelihood it will be the teams with the better squads, Chelsea or Man City. But more likely Man City. They are just destroying teams and brushing them away. Especially at home.

Offline LFCsupporter

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2014, 08:25:42 pm »
Arsenal fixtures March:

Bayern Munich   Away
Spurs                 Away
Chelsea             Away
Man City            Home
Everton             Away

Offline Number 7

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2014, 08:26:31 pm »
Looking at our remaining fixtures and reflecting on our average form over the last six weeks, I think we will be 5th placed. I can see Man Utd slowly improving. Spurs look like they're getting up a head of steam too. All in all, if you believe 4th place is some kind of magical key to the promised land (I'm a bit skeptical about that) then you're going to be in for a nail biting few months. Bring it on!

We have played most of the top teams away from home. Everton and Spurs still have to come to Anfield, and both have harder away fixtures than us. Anything can happen but if we win all the games we're expected to win we should get 4th. I know yesterday was a slip up, but I think it's still in our hands.
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Offline Just Dan

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2014, 08:31:08 pm »
We have played most of the top teams away from home. Everton and Spurs still have to come to Anfield, and both have harder away fixtures than us. Anything can happen but if we win all the games we're expected to win we should get 4th. I know yesterday was a slip up, but I think it's still in our hands.

If we can minimize the slip ups and dont drop silly points, we SHOULD be OK.

Still say its a sorry day for us to be saying this for 4th position though. I think the serious challenges will come in the next few years. With a few additions and improvements, we'll be up there. We can compete as it is, we give City a game at the Etihad. Not many teams do that anymore. We can compete, but over the course of a season with the squad as it is, we will struggle. Improve on that and we will be able to sustain it over a season.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2014, 08:34:06 pm »
Realistically we have a shed load of games to go, so realistically this thread is very unrealistic in the real world.
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Offline Danny_

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2014, 08:35:19 pm »
If United lose another game and go nine points behind us, then maybe we can start to write them off but it is way too early.  They have RVP and Rooney coming back and if you don't think that will make a difference to them, then, that is just retarded.  We also have to play them at Old Trafford still.  Even with Moyes in charge, that's not going to be an easy game.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2014, 08:35:29 pm »
It's actually us, Everton, Spurs and United in for 4th whether we like it or not.

If we're including United in the battle for 4th then why not Newcastle. They are only 1 point behind United.

But the top 3 are definitely gone now and it'll be a scrap to the end for 4th. One result could be the difference between finishing 4th or 7th. I'd make us slight favorites for 4th given our fixture list and United and Spurs European commitments but i wouldn't be surprised if we finished bottom of the pack either.
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Offline serpentnebula

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2014, 08:36:35 pm »
The race for 4th is going to be extremely tight. I think it might come down to the last kick on the last day of the season. I don't think there's a clear favorite between us, Everton and Spurs. We're better than them in some areas, they're better than us in others. I just hope the owners' budget restrictions won't undermine our assault on 4th.

Offline Pricey

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2014, 08:37:11 pm »
Personally don't see Arsenal nailed on top 3.

They've got a horrendous fixture list, and they come to Anfield in 2 weeks. Beat them and that gap is now 3 points. It's not a big gap and they're thin up front.

Manchester City and Chelsea will fight out the title, Man City is where i'd have my money. Anyone from us, Arsenal, Tottenham and Everton can come 3rd or 4th. Arsenal usually implode and i expect the same again this year.

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2014, 08:40:52 pm »
Personally don't see Arsenal nailed on top 3.

They've got a horrendous fixture list, and they come to Anfield in 2 weeks. Beat them and that gap is now 3 points. It's not a big gap and they're thin up front.

Manchester City and Chelsea will fight out the title, Man City is where i'd have my money. Anyone from us, Arsenal, Tottenham and Everton can come 3rd or 4th. Arsenal usually implode and i expect the same again this year.
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Offline Haggis36

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2014, 08:41:30 pm »
We have played most of the top teams away from home. Everton and Spurs still have to come to Anfield, and both have harder away fixtures than us. Anything can happen but if we win all the games we're expected to win we should get 4th. I know yesterday was a slip up, but I think it's still in our hands.

Thing is, both Spurs and Everton are better away from home than we are, and both are better against the top sides than we are. Our fantastic home form has to some extent papered over our patchy away form but the games only get more difficult from here on in. I'm not even talking about yesterday (I'm not so sure it was a "blip" considering how we've been defending in recent times) but our record against the top sides under Rodgers is... really not very good. I'm honestly not sure what we'll get from Arsenal, Chelsea and City, but I'd hazard a guess at not more than 3 or 4 points.

That Everton and Spurs need to play here is a bonus. Absolutely must win games, both of them.

Offline jaffod

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2014, 08:42:08 pm »
The arrogance of some on here barely 24 hours after that abject performance is quite frankly fucking astounding.

Offline Easy

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2014, 08:42:14 pm »
Since Boxing Day we've dropped 8 points against Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea. Spurs are on a great run whilst Everton and Utd have been around evens. We're the team that's dipped in form out of that lot (in terms of results). We can turn it around. We have to.

Offline Pricey

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2014, 08:46:48 pm »
The arrogance of some on here barely 24 hours after that abject performance is quite frankly fucking astounding.

While I agree the performance wasn't fantastic it's no reflection on the players or our season. When a manager sets a team out 424 and has to make defensive substitutions to become attacking expect points to be dropped. In the context of the season had i offered you 4 points from Stoke away and Villa at home, i think you may have taken it. Points will be dropped in places where they shouldn't, other teams will do it too. We need to beat 2 or 3 of the top teams at Anfield though, no doubt. We have to improve in those big games because they're the old cliched 6 pointers this year. Lucas will be missed.

Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2014, 08:47:41 pm »
Since Boxing Day we've dropped 8 points against Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea. Spurs are on a great run whilst Everton and Utd have been around evens. We're the team that's dipped in form out of that lot (in terms of results). We can turn it around. We have to.

But 6 of those points dropped were against City and Chelsea.  We have an opportunity to make that ground back up as each team plays one another.

Realistically though, I see City and Chelsea breaking away and I can actually see Arsenal falling back. They might be top now, but they have a run of games in March harder than ours over Christmas (Spurs away, Chelsea away, City home and Everton away).  I think we are fighting for 4th (maybe 3rd).

Offline Zoomers

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2014, 08:48:49 pm »
The arrogance of some on here barely 24 hours after that abject performance is quite frankly fucking astounding.

+1 to this post.
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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2014, 08:51:08 pm »
Thing is, both Spurs and Everton are better away from home than we are, and both are better against the top sides than we are. Our fantastic home form has to some extent papered over our patchy away form but the games only get more difficult from here on in. I'm not even talking about yesterday (I'm not so sure it was a "blip" considering how we've been defending in recent times) but our record against the top sides under Rodgers is... really not very good. I'm honestly not sure what we'll get from Arsenal, Chelsea and City, but I'd hazard a guess at not more than 3 or 4 points.

That Everton and Spurs need to play here is a bonus. Absolutely must win games, both of them.

Last year:
2 draws against Chelsea
2 draws against Man City ( should have won both )
Beat Spurs home, lost away
Draw at the Emirates
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Smashed Spurs
Draw against Everton
Narrow loss to City
Loss to Chelsea and Arsenal.

Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2014, 08:53:08 pm »
The arrogance of some on here barely 24 hours after that abject performance is quite frankly fucking astounding.

And the overreaction to one poor performance when we have the highest points tally at this stage since we challenged for the title in 2008/09 is also astounding.

Offline Dalglish1892

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Re: Realistically, is it just a battle for 4th spot with 2 other teams now?
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2014, 08:57:20 pm »
Looking at our remaining fixtures and reflecting on our average form over the last six weeks, I think we will be 5th placed. I can see Man Utd slowly improving. Spurs look like they're getting up a head of steam too. All in all, if you believe 4th place is some kind of magical key to the promised land (I'm a bit skeptical about that) then you're going to be in for a nail biting few months. Bring it on!

Our average form over the past 6 weeks (in which we've played 9 games) is 6 wins, 2 losses and one draw. Extrapolated over season that would give us 76 points out of 36 games which would guarantee us top 4. Nice sample choice mate.