Topic: Lucas Pezzini Leiva and the 'inverted triangle'

[redmark]

Poor choice of words perhaps but I felt something had to change at half time and that was only reinforced by how we came out in the second half.  We had a decision to make then and there, if we're going to be on the backfoot this second half do we go for more control or do we wait and see if we can grab a 3rd on the counter.  At 2-1 the decision was made for Brendan really so after that we kinda just had to stick with what we had fortunately we grabbed the win.

I think the idea wasn't to concede that we were going to be on the back foot - or at least, that while soaking up pressure, we had a threat on the counter that City had to respect, which prevented them from pushing higher or Kompany/Demichelis - who can both use the ball well - stepping into midfield. Of course, replacing either Sturridge or Suarez with Lucas (or Allen) would have conceded a degree of impetus to City, which I think Rodgers was trying to avoid. Coutinho (and Sterling) had been outstanding in the first half and were our best 'out balls', picking up the ball in midfield and keeping possession, while both offering penetration and incisive passing. The intention was simply that we needed to play better in that early period in the second half.

Also, to repeat the point about City being a different proposition to West Ham, it is not guaranteed that Lucas coming on would significantly have prevented Silva and Milner both being very strong for a period of the game. City are a quality team, with at least a couple of their quality players stepping up in that second half. Even then, their second goal was very fortunate and (though they had another couple of decent chances) we weren't entirely torn apart.

[B0151?]

We were up against City in fairness. I do believe regardless of who we had on the field, them coming back into the game was inevitable - unless we got that 3rd goal.

[Noclio]

The loss of Henderson for the next three game is a blow and I'm curious/concern to how we will adapt in his absence. With Sturridge seemingly at best only making the bench on Sunday there is no doubt we will now see a trio of Gerrard Allen and Lucas in midfield. Henderson ever present contribution and Gerrard performances as a deep lying playmaker have been two highlights of our second half of the season surge. I remember many of us worrying about the “lost of control” in midfield when Rodgers has played Lucas and Gerrard as a double pivot.

That's why I hope (expect) the midfield shape will be retained. Gerrard’s injury earlier in the season and the subsequent use of Lucas-Allen-Henderson in a 1-2 configuration in midfield was for me the moment where Rodgers found the solution to the midfield balance and what eventually brought the devastating fluidity to our attacking play. This time around though, I see Gerrard preserved in the deeper role and Lucas joining Allen in the "2" in front of him just as we saw (with Henderson instead of Allen) in the second half against West Ham.

Against Norwich, it seems a switch back to 4-3-3 with Coutinho and Sterling flanking Suarez is to be expected. Yet, it doesn’t negate the possibility of using the diamond shape with Sterling pushed further forward and Coutinho used at the tip. One worry I have is that Rodgers will have no obvious option on the bench (apart from a not 100% fit Sturridge) if he needs to change the game or if (touch wood) we have an injury. How much will we miss Henderson energy in defense and drive going forward? Will our attack offer the same level of fluidity and penetration with Lucas pushed further forward?

[mercurial]

If we need to throw more attacking options, we do have Texeira. He already has had one Macheda moment, would be great if he can provide another.

[GrkStav]

Are people seriously worried that we cannot manage vs Norwich with Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Alberto and Texeira as possible options as non-advanced central midfielders?

Are people genuinely concerned that we may not be able to handle Norwich with Suarez, Aspas, Moses, Sterling and Coutinho as possible forward options?

[Durlmints]

Are people seriously worried that we cannot manage vs Norwich with Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Alberto and Texeira as possible options as non-advanced central midfielders?

Are people genuinely concerned that we may not be able to handle Norwich with Suarez, Aspas, Moses, Sterling and Coutinho as possible forward options?

THE'YRE FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES GRKSTAV! HAVE YOU NOT READ THE NEWS!?

[farawayred]

Are people seriously worried that we cannot manage vs Norwich with Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Alberto and Texeira as possible options as non-advanced central midfielders?

Are people genuinely concerned that we may not be able to handle Norwich with Suarez, Aspas, Moses, Sterling and Coutinho as possible forward options?

Manage without Hendo? Impossible...

[GrkStav]

THE'YRE FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES GRKSTAV! HAVE YOU NOT READ THE NEWS!?

Indeed! As were Cardiff, right?

[Caligula?]

Indeed! As were Cardiff, right?

We did go to Cardiff full-strength though.

[Noclio]

Are people seriously worried that we cannot manage vs Norwich with Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Alberto and Texeira as possible options as non-advanced central midfielders?

Are people genuinely concerned that we may not be able to handle Norwich with Suarez, Aspas, Moses, Sterling and Coutinho as possible forward options?

Being scared of Norwich is not the question.  A front six of Gerrard, Lucas, Allen, Coutinho, Sterling and Suarez is without a doubt good enough but how many minutes have Texeira, Alberto, Moses and Aspas played in the last few months?

I can understand the sense of invincibility considering the unbelievable form we are in. Henderson has played almost every minute of every game in the premier league this season and to dismiss his absence not only against Norwich but also Chelsea and Palace is ignoring his integral part in the team.

Really though, I just wanted to spark a discussion on Lucas return to the starting lineup in what should be a more advance role and the options available to Rodgers in terms of shape and personnel. Maybe it will be more relevant after Norwich when a more "scary" opponent is on the horizon.

[robgomm]

Texeira, Alberto, Moses and Aspas are all fit, all training and all part of the team. Trust the manager if he decides to use one of them.

We will miss Hendo for sure. It's one of those unfortunate things but every time someone's dropped, someone else has stepped up. That's the Brendan Rodgers way.

[Noclio]

Texeira, Alberto, Moses and Aspas are all fit, all training and all part of the team. Trust the manager if he decides to use one of them.

We will miss Hendo for sure. It's one of those unfortunate things but every time someone's dropped, someone else has stepped up. That's the Brendan Rodgers way.

As you say, I probably should know better and trust Rodgers to find a way to deal with Henderson's absence. I'm still curious how Lucas (who I rate highly) will perform in this new role. Hopefully Sturridge is fit again before Chelsea next week and we will have seven tried and tested options for the front six with Coutinho again a possibility in a CM spot.

Do you think we will go back to the 4-3-3 with Coutinho and Sterling flanking Suarez as we've seen the last time Sturridge was out (and last week when he went off) or stick with the diamond with Coutinho at the tip and Sterling in a more advance role?

[Eeyore]

I think the idea wasn't to concede that we were going to be on the back foot - or at least, that while soaking up pressure, we had a threat on the counter that City had to respect, which prevented them from pushing higher or Kompany/Demichelis - who can both use the ball well - stepping into midfield. Of course, replacing either Sturridge or Suarez with Lucas (or Allen) would have conceded a degree of impetus to City, which I think Rodgers was trying to avoid. Coutinho (and Sterling) had been outstanding in the first half and were our best 'out balls', picking up the ball in midfield and keeping possession, while both offering penetration and incisive passing. The intention was simply that we needed to play better in that early period in the second half.

Also, to repeat the point about City being a different proposition to West Ham, it is not guaranteed that Lucas coming on would significantly have prevented Silva and Milner both being very strong for a period of the game. City are a quality team, with at least a couple of their quality players stepping up in that second half. Even then, their second goal was very fortunate and (though they had another couple of decent chances) we weren't entirely torn apart.

I think that is an excellent summary. I think the other thing bearing in mind is the extra amount of energy City had to expend because we kept the game stretched. City expanded an incredible amount of energy in getting the game back to 2-2 but I am not sure they would of needed to do that if we had taken off an attacking threat and looked to contain them.

As you say City would of just pushed Kompany into midfield and looked to pen us in. Instead Brendan stayed true to his principles made the pitch big and looked to fight fire with fire.

[Noclio]

I think that is an excellent summary. I think the other thing bearing in mind is the extra amount of energy City had to expend because we kept the game stretched. City expanded an incredible amount of energy in getting the game back to 2-2 but I am not sure they would of needed to do that if we had taken off an attacking threat and looked to contain them.

As you say City would of just pushed Kompany into midfield and looked to pen us in. Instead Brendan stayed true to his principles made the pitch big and looked to fight fire with fire.

I agree. It is also possible to play a more expansive, tiring game when you're safe in the knowledge that you have options you trust on the bench to replace the tired legs. Rodgers seems very confident in the players fitness level and usually leaves it late to make substitutions unless he sees a need to change the shape or add other attributes with a personnel change.

Against Norwich though, the options will be very limited.

[Eeyore]

I agree. It is also possible to play a more expansive, tiring game when you're safe in the knowledge that you have options you trust on the bench to replace the tired legs. Rodgers seems very confident in the players fitness level and usually leaves it late to make substitutions unless he sees a need to change the shape or add other attributes with a personnel change.

Against Norwich though, the options will be very limited.

I think it is one of the strengths of the way we play. We tend to play in bursts with the back four plus Gerrard getting a rest when we press and front five getting a rest when we distribute the ball between the keeper, the back 4 and Gerrard. The opposition doesn't get that luxury and we tend to come on strong towards the end of games if we need to.

As for options we might not have as many bodies as we would like but I think the way Rodgers makes subtle changes during games means that the cupboard isn't as bare as it looks. I remember Rodgers saying that instead of having a plan B he is a manager who believes in making plan A work better first.

[Noclio]

Very good description of Rodgers approach in terms of choosing when to press and when to rest. I noticed in some games this season we seemed to stretch the game, especially on the counter-attack late on, where it's basically Sturridge and Suarez plus one or two others joining in and the rest of the block repositioning themselves in the middle third without over-committing.

It seems to be one of Rodgers strength to coach the players on how and when to spend their energy. Henderson "the tireless worker" being the prime example. We haven't seen Lucas and Allen play a full 90 minutes for a long time though. I guess we'll see how they fare tomorrow.

[robgomm]

Do you think we will go back to the 4-3-3 with Coutinho and Sterling flanking Suarez as we've seen the last time Sturridge was out (and last week when he went off) or stick with the diamond with Coutinho at the tip and Sterling in a more advance role?

I've been thinking the latter, Coutinho at the tip and Sterling as an auxiliary striker. He could even drift wide right and really confuse Norwich. My instinct is to either way make sure Suarez is the focal point as he hasn't been that for a while and I think he'd thrive off it.

[Adeemo]

I've a feeling he'll score today.

[rickardinho1]

Big games required from Allen and Lucas today. Need them to be good on the ball and help the attack

[Upinsmoke]

This lad put the shits up me today.

[Clint Eastwood]

Pretty pretty poor performance, must be said.

[marcus-g]

Fucking liability today.

[thegoodfella]

Fucking hell, no idea what you saw today but he gave a solid performance.

[gamble]

Really off the pace, couldn't deal with the intensity, slowed the game down when he had the ball. Not his best day, will have to do better next week

[goalspaytherent]

Fucking hell, no idea what you saw today but he gave a solid performance.

His challenges are fucking mental at times .....

[farawayred]

I've a feeling he'll score today.

Close...

[Caligula?]

Fucking hell, no idea what you saw today but he gave a solid performance.

He wasn't bad, but he definitely wasn't solid. Slow, immobile, conceding too many fouls. Not at fault for anything though. Mignolet doesn't gift them a goal, we cruise at 2-0. If Flanagan decides to jump at 3-1, we save ourselves a nervous last 15 minutes, So Lucas can't really be blamed for much.

[bird_lfc]

Not his best performance but that's expected when he's been bit part player since he injury.  He'll perform against Chelsea.

[Bangin Them In]

Fucking liability today.

Never mind

I'm sure you'll get better

[Upinsmoke]

Fucking hell, no idea what you saw today but he gave a solid performance.

Thought Glen needed help second half as he was making some odd choices and lucas just didn't have the athleticism, they were a threat from dead balls and Crosses and lucas seemed more than happy to keep fouling.

[Cid]

Defended well at times but he hasn't got the mobility to press as we would normally do with henderson and he looked very hesitant getting forward (He would often release the ball and then do nothing, as though by passing the ball on he thought his job was done).  Need more from him.

[Draex]

Really off the pace, couldn't deal with the intensity, slowed the game down when he had the ball. Not his best day, will have to do better next week

You could see Gerrard going nuts when he bundled the player over right near the end when Sterling was in a better position to challenge.

Off the pace massively, not sure he has the energy for that role.

[JovaJova]

Think we need to upgrade him in the summer.  We've gone up a level now and he doesn't quite have the tools to add to this dynamic young team.

If he is happy being a bench player then great.

[Renato]

Him and Johnson should be made do a 1000 laps tomorrow morning for those shocking performances. Lucas made about 10 fouls and none of them did us any good and then there was that shambolic miss at the end. Has to improve for Chelsea next week

[SquirrelandGman]

Is it me or since the injury in 2012 lucas has looked pretty average.

His athleticism, strength and reading of the game has just disappeared into thin air.


Almost scored today..such a shame

[Chakan]

Johnson had an utter crap game, which puts Lucas under pressure. Them 2 together do not make a good pairing. I would switch Allen and Lucas.

[SquirrelandGman]

Think we need to upgrade him in the summer.  We've gone up a level now and he doesn't quite have the tools to add to this dynamic young team.

If he is happy being a bench player then great.

yeah.. hoping the old lucas would be back but its been 2 years now and he looks but a shadow of his former self.

Such a shame really

[Carly]

Lacks the mobility and energy to play next to Gerrard like Henderson does. Still gives far too many silly free kicks away aswell in our own half.

[paddysour]

Shocking today. That role didn't suit him at all, he's just far too static down to his lack of mobility. He spent a lot of the match just running into players.

Completely froze in one attack and missed a sitter in another. Hopefully Sturridge is fit for Chelsea and Coutinho goes back into midfield with Allen.

[JovaJova]

Him and Johnson should be made do a 1000 laps tomorrow morning for those shocking performances. Lucas made about 10 fouls and none of them did us any good and then there was that shambolic miss at the end. Has to improve for Chelsea next week

He hopefully won't be playing with Sturridge back