Author Topic: 2012/13 UEFA Champions League Final - Bayern München 2-1 Borussia Dortmund  (Read 591854 times)

Offline ElCapo

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I want Barcelona pls.   xxavi we gunna have some fun :)

Offline KERRYKOP

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Bayern dominated Juve again, made it look very comfortable. At this point they look well ahead of the pack.

Offline Rohit

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I am for Barca as I think they kind of deserve it. They changed the game and the overall behaviour surrounding it. Players like Xavi, Iniesta and also Messi gave football such a positive direction, all about great football, fair play and trying to win with being better in playing football only. IMO.

That's a load of crap. How many times have we heard Xavi or any other Barca player moaning about teams parking the bus and it being a crime against football if they lose. Its all well and good to be well mannered when they win but they're not different to any other team when they lose.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Bayern dominated Juve again, made it look very comfortable. At this point they look well ahead of the pack.
Is that what pirlo will be doing after tonights game then ...?? (Your avatar)
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Rohit

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Bayern dominated Juve again, made it look very comfortable. At this point they look well ahead of the pack.

High energy pressing and you take pirlo out of the game. It happened when the mancs played Milan a few years back and Ginsoak used Park to stick to pirlo all game. Its happened before. You need other players who can dictate a game in the team when that happens, Juve don't have that and nor do they have the strike power to play another way an overcompensate that flaw.

Offline Camarero25

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when was the last time xavi had  consistently brilliant games? Two seasons ago for my money. Barca's best player is iniesta, done it world cup finals and Champions league finals, 3 times now he's been the difference maker. Madrid don't even fear Messi as much as they do Iniesta I reckon when they play each other.

Oof, not sure about that mate.

Second best certainly, but Messi is just on another level.

Offline steveeastend

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That's a load of crap. How many times have we heard Xavi or any other Barca player moaning about teams parking the bus and it being a crime against football if they lose. Its all well and good to be well mannered when they win but they're not different to any other team when they lose.

Yeah but they are still reasonably humble and nice people in terms of overall behaviour on the pitch and how they present themselves.

What I am trying to say is that to me they were the first team which had almost none emphasis on the physical strength, it´s kind of a "gentle" football, if you know what I mean. You may like it or not, but they brought something new and refreshing to the table other than this stubborn, grim approach, side to the game which normally comes with teams trying to dominate european football.

One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Oof, not sure about that mate.

Second best certainly, but Messi is just on another level.
What a hipster thing to say, right?!
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Po The Panda

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I am for Barca as I think they kind of deserve it. They changed the game and the overall behaviour surrounding it. Players like Xavi, Iniesta and also Messi gave football such a positive direction, all about great football, fair play and trying to win with being better in playing football only. IMO.
Jesus they've been a great side but your making them out to be moral role models :puke2

They've even mocked us when we beat them 2-1 at nou camp. Said Liverpool played weird football. Just like everyone else their sore losers and c*nts It's modern football Don't make them out to be different.

Offline KERRYKOP

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High energy pressing and you take pirlo out of the game. It happened when the mancs played Milan a few years back and Ginsoak used Park to stick to pirlo all game. Its happened before. You need other players who can dictate a game in the team when that happens, Juve don't have that and nor do they have the strike power to play another way an overcompensate that flaw.
They have goals all over the park though, Vidal was a massive loss tonight, he's a real vocal point and gives them a lot of purpose. Agree with you about Pirlo, but still to beat Juve like that deserves a lot of credit, it has to.

Offline Rohit

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Oof, not sure about that mate.

Second best certainly, but Messi is just on another level.

Nope I think he's a better footballer, I'm with Juan what is it Messi does better than Iniesta bar score goals?

Iniesta is a better playmaker, a better dribble and one who can control a game, not just a second forward for the final pass goal/like Messi.

Barca's midfield is pretty average if Iniesta doesn't have a great game right now. An for the most part this season he has, before it obviously wasn't just him dictating the game. But the burden is all on him now.

Offline steveeastend

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Jesus they've been a great side but your making them out to be moral role models :puke2

They've even mocked us when we beat them 2-1 at nou camp. Said Liverpool played weird football. Just like everyone else their sore losers and c*nts It's modern football Don't make them out to be different.

Yeah, they moan, but it´s all they got. They cannot offer the grim approach of van Gaal, the mental behaviour of Mourinho, the stubborn discpline of german clubs or the nasty defending of italian teams. They are just good in playing better football, and to me, they excluded everything Oliver Kahn ever thought to be important in football. And I think it was refreshing to see that this can work.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline rushyman

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Offline Hoenheim

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I'd say Iniesta is one of the best midfielders ever; he is there in the most decisive moments (Chelsea semi final, World Cup final), his ball control is absolutely sublime and you just can't tackle him. He effortlessly glides on the pitch and sets people up with insane through balls.
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Offline Camarero25

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Nope I think he's a better footballer, I'm with Juan what is it Messi does better than Iniesta bar score goals?

Iniesta is a better playmaker, a better dribble and one who can control a game, not just a second forward for the final pass goal/like Messi.

Barca's midfield is pretty average if Iniesta doesn't have a great game right now. An for the most part this season he has, before it obviously wasn't just him dictating the game. But the burden is all on him now.

Yeah I kind of know what you mean but Messi's so good at that final pass/ finish that it elevates him above everyone else.

Disagree that Iniesta's a better dribbler as well, certainly not as effective a dribbler as Messi anyway, though that may be down to Messi's superior pace.

Depends what you mean by "footballer" as well really.

The burden is mostly on Messi to score Barca's goals.

Offline harrythered

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Xavi completed all 96 of his 96 pass attempts tonight. How? What a stat, even if he is just playing short passes.
Justice For The 96

Offline thegoodfella

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Where's Phil and why hasn't he changed the thread title yet.

Offline elkun

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there is no better dribbler then Messi in the world

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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there is no better dribbler then Messi in the world
Stephen Hawking?
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Phil M

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Where's Phil and why hasn't he changed the thread title yet.

Do keep up Mr. goodfella.
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Offline Lawnmowerman

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 :lmao thread title

Offline Camarero25

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Thanks, I got the hint.

Nice touch.

Well clearly you didn't. ;)

Offline thegoodfella

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Stephen Hawking?

The thread just took a dark turn...

Offline -Willo-

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Offline RedInside

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I'm really hoping for a match up between Bayern and Barca

Offline FernandoSusoLFC

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Wage bill for the four semi finalists from 2011: Barcelona €241m, Real M €216m, Bayern M €158m, B.Dortmund €61m.

Offline DeLeiva

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Wage bill for the four semi finalists from 2011: Barcelona €241m, Real M €216m, Bayern M €158m, B.Dortmund €61m.

That is mental, just plain mental.

To be fair you've got to say that the 4 best teams in Europe
Have made the final 4, couldn't say the same last year.

Love Dortmund to win it, very special "team" not a team of
Special individuals.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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That is mental, just plain mental.

To be fair you've got to say that the 4 best teams in Europe
Have made the final 4, couldn't say the same last year.
I would say juve are better than Dortmund. Obviously, Dortmund had the advantage of playing Malaga and have had to come up arguably the best team in the world right now
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:45:25 am by Sir Psycho Sexy »
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline KERRYKOP

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Wage bill for the four semi finalists from 2011: Barcelona €241m, Real M €216m, Bayern M €158m, B.Dortmund €61m.
Bayern team looks a bargain as well.

Offline Ryba

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Bottlers? Sure. Bayern are going to take this trophy.
They've just annihilated Juventus as if they were playing some minnows.
Massive favorites for me.

Offline muyuu

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Dortmund shouldn't even be in the competition now. You can miss a player offside but when you miss 4 and then 2 clearly offside in the same play there's either corruption or gross incompetence.

Bayern looked good and it would be nice if they won it, but the favourites are Barcelona and Madrid.
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Offline Ryba

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Dortmund shouldn't even be in the competition now. You can miss a player offside but when you miss 4 and then 2 clearly offside in the same play there's either corruption or gross incompetence.

Bayern looked good and it would be nice if they won it, but the favourites are Barcelona and Madrid.
Yeah and Barca should have gone out against Chelsea a couple years back. Let's cross that one out, too.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Dortmund shouldn't even be in the competition now. You can miss a player offside but when you miss 4 and then 2 clearly offside in the same play there's either corruption or gross incompetence.

Bayern looked good and it would be nice if they won it, but the favourites are Barcelona and Madrid.
Surely after the form Madrid have displayed over the season then Bayern are favourites ahead of them? Bayern will win it because they have the better coaching and tactics that Barca don't have because they are missing their main man Villanova. Madrid won't win it because of the dysfunctional relationship with mourinho and the squad. Dortmund won't win it because they aren't good enough (yet). ....... IMHO
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline KERRYKOP

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Surely after the form Madrid have displayed over the season then Bayern are favourites ahead of them? Bayern will win it because they have the better coaching and tactics that Barca don't have because they are missing their main man Villanova. Madrid won't win it because of the dysfunctional relationship with mourinho and the squad. Dortmund won't win it because they aren't good enough (yet). ....... IMHO
And than again like last year all logic can be thrown out the window and it could be anyone's trophy, which I believe it to be.

Bayern are by far the best team in it at this point though.

Offline Caligula?

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Anybody who wants anyone other than Dortmund to win the CL should take a good, long look at themselves.



I was actually leaning towards Malaga winning yesterday... But after seeing his post-match interview last night, I want them to win it now. Would be brilliant. I can't even imagine what his reaction would be.

Offline 81a

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The draw tomorow will ensure a Germany - Spain  Final .

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Offline FresnoBee

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I'd say Iniesta is one of the best midfielders ever; he is there in the most decisive moments (Chelsea semi final, World Cup final), his ball control is absolutely sublime and you just can't tackle him. He effortlessly glides on the pitch and sets people up with insane through balls.

Iniesta stats:

Season..Play..Goal..Assist
12/13....46......6......20
11/12....49......9......11
10/11....61.....12......12
09/10....34......1.......7
08/09....56......9.......16

His end product isn't something he can brag about, for a so called "Best ever attacking midfielder". And to think that his team mostly have 70% or more ball possession, that's a poor stats.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 02:11:21 am by FresnoBee »

Offline Juan Loco

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And that's the thing.

Messi and Ronaldo have convinced us that you judge the game on pure, raw, statistical data. 10 years ago the top goalscorers wouldn't be considered the best players in the world simply by virtue of scoring so many goals. What Messi and Ronaldo have done by scoring 50+ season after season is they've passed some arbitrary line people have set in their own heads that pushes them up this whole new level. No one scored 50 goals 10 seasons ago. I remember Van Nistelrooy hitting 40 one year, and Henry getting 30+, but fifty season after season? Unreal.

I don't think you can have issue if people want to say that they're the best ever based on those stats because it's utterly ridiculous. But somewhere along the line there's been a line has been crossed and it basically means that you can't be considered at that level if you're not doing the same.

In the summer everyone on here seemed to be in broad consensus that Spain were, quite probably, the best international team of all time. Iniesta stands out head and shoulders as the best player in that side. He's done the same in more than a handful of reaaaaally big games for Barcelona as well.

I hinted at this argument in a thread on here previously - if Iniesta scored 20 goals a season would he be considered the best player in the world. Because in my head there's the same arbitrary figure of a certain amount of goals he should be seen to score. What if he scored 30, or just 15? 

Or is the best player in the world now just a simple shoot out over who scores the most goals a season, and unless you're scoring fifty, or sixty, or eighty-six (or whatever the fuck it was) you can't even enter the debate?

None of this is a go at Messi or Ronaldo before anyone dares spin it that way. I know they're not one-dimensional tap-in merchants (duh). My point is simply that we now don't seem to be able to suggest anyone else is up there, purely because of the frankly ridiculous statistical output these two players have. If anyone else wants to enter the debate they have to be seen to also be passing that line in the sand we seem to have collectively drawn that says "ok, this is a stupid amount of goals, no one else is close".

I don't know. Maybe it's the natural reaction to be bored of something after it's carried on so long, but it kinda bugs me that Iniesta won't ever win a Balon D'or because he doesn't score 50 goals a season. I do think it's a valid point though, because right now it seems you can only enter the debate to be considered the best player in the world if you score these stupid amount of goals. That to me is a shoot-out. We've got a Golden Boot for that.
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Offline Xxavi

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Iniesta stats:

Season..Play..Goal..Assist
12/13....46......6......20
11/12....49......9......11
10/11....61.....12......12
09/10....34......1.......7
08/09....56......9.......16

His end product isn't something he can brag about, for a so called "Best ever attacking midfielder". And to think that his team mostly have 70% or more ball possession, that's a poor stats.
A ridiculous criticism when you consider the fact that with such "poor stats" Xavi and Iniesta managed to lead their club and country to all trophies that can be won. Multiple times.

Yes, Frank Lampard scores more. I got it.

Offline Armand9

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Nope I think he's a better footballer, I'm with Juan what is it Messi does better than Iniesta bar score goals?

Iniesta is a better playmaker, a better dribble and one who can control a game, not just a second forward for the final pass goal/like Messi.

Barca's midfield is pretty average if Iniesta doesn't have a great game right now. An for the most part this season he has, before it obviously wasn't just him dictating the game. But the burden is all on him now.

For one, the phrase 'what is it Messi does better than Iniesta bar score goals?' comes across as bit blaise when the most important thing in football is scoring a goal. So that's a huge fucking difference, not just a minor area of his game that's superior than Iniesta. It's THE main thing you do in football to make a difference.

That aside, how Barca play Messi now, has curtailed somewhat his dribbling etc as opposed to when they played him out on the left - where he was be dribbling all the time, but more to the point, as excellent as Iniesta is at dribbling he's not even close to Messi - the only other player I've seen that is (and for my money better) was Maradonna.

As regards being a playmaker - Iniesta plays deeper generally and as such when considering the traditional view of a playmaker, he fits that description more, however, when Messi drops deeper to allow others to run off him the season is full of incredible passes of all types from defense splitting to inch perfect lobs.

Iniesta is a wonderful player (and, as an aside, Suarez's favourite player to watch), but he most certainly is not a better footballer than Messi. And when you talk about controlling a game - I've rarely (ever?) seen an occasion like last nite whereby the mere stepping on the pitch by a player changed a game. Many quality players change games when coming on (our own stevie is a prime example) but I don't think I've ever seen a game change like that before the sub has even kicked the ball - his mere presence elevated his players while the opposition as good as cowered.
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