Topic: How far away are we really? Why good outweighs bad yet isn't seen on the pitch

[PhaseOfPlay]

Bayern is an established team with top players in every position and great squad depth , we are building, how did Barca built their team ? By changing formations and players positions every season ?

It doesn't matter. Having one formation, having twelve. It's the players that count, and the ability to score goals and stop them. Everything else is secondary. If it was the formations, every team would play the same one.

[ShayGuevara]

Until Rodgers figures out how to beat the top sides and peak earlier we'll struggle. Still believe he'll win the PL with us if given the chance. For me he's a tactically more astute version of Wenger. We perform well generally against the likes of City and Chelsea but we just aren't getting the results for whatever reason. It's cost us this season and of course last season also in them two games against City and Chelsea after Xmas. With regards finding form earlier in the season I'm sure with less ins and outs this season we'll gel better and it'll only be a matter of match fitness early on.

Like Wenger though success in Europe under Rodgers seems unlikely in the near future also. Cup comps are more suited the the Mourinho's, Benitez's and Simeone's of the world who can get results away from home on the counter.

[Torpedo Tommy]

It doesn't matter. Having one formation, having twelve. It's the players that count, and the ability to score goals and stop them. Everything else is secondary. If it was the formations, every team would play the same one.

I don't come on here as often as I used to but when I do, your posts seem to stand out and make the most sense Phase of Play.  Good stuff mate.

 

[Gnurglan]

Enrique will surely be sold? One year left on his contract and not rated by management/spends more time swanning round and posing for Instagram pics than he does playing football. Be surprised if Manquillo was here next season as he hasn't even made the matchday squad since mid Jan. Wisdom isn't really of the required quality, Moreno is promising but very, very green and we have no idea how Flanagan will come back from what has turned out to be a very nasty injury in the end.

I mean if we're playing midfielders as wing-backs it's less of an issue, but we're looking at a serious dearth of quality if not numbers in terms of full backs at the club should we ever return to a back four.

Not a single one of those is good enough for the wing back roles in our first 11. At best, they can do a job. Moreno's good enough to be a back up, and Flanagan might get the chance to show if he's a back up option there.

Fortunately, we have Ibe. But we need another one like him.

We have plenty of options. I don't see a reason to panic about the wing-back roles. We can always find better alternatives, but I believe it would be a mistake to target new options. Why? Because in comparison to other areas, the wing-back roles shouldn't be given priority. Not now.

We're losing Gerrard and we haven't replaced Suarez, plus we have suffered without Sturridge. Our ability to find the right options for those roles will determine our success next season. New options at wing-back not so much.

[BabuYagu]

It doesn't matter about other teams. People worry about that too much. The formula is the same, regardless of who you are -  beat the bottom 10 teams home and away, win the home games and draw the away games against the middle 5, and try not to win as many of the top four 6-pointers as you can. Bear in mind, that the other top four teams will also take points off each other. So we don't need strikers capable of necessarily scoring in the big games. We need strikers capable of putting the bottom 10 teams to the sword, and putting the ball in the net against the middle 5. That type of striker is much more gettable than someone who would be considered "top of the line". A Vela, Martinez, Dost, Boymans, Depay or De Jong are a lot more attainable than a Lacazette, Aubemyang or a Benzema. We should be able to do business for that type of player easily.

In the Premier League, Ronaldo used to annihilate the 6-20 teams and then look crap in comparison every time a big game came around. He was labelled a big game bottler for years because of this. Not that it mattered as he got a league title winners medal almost every season.

I´m not saying we need someone of Ronaldo´s quality here, before that gets twisted, merely pointing out that players that smash those mid-lower level teams are very valuable. to be honest - I had hoped Lambert or Baloteli would become that kind of player. Someone who would score regularly against those sides in the league while Sturridge was rested for the CL.

[killer-heels]

^ Indeed. We dropped points against Everton, Hull, Sunderlan, Villa, Leicester at home and Palace and Newcastle away. Forget about our record against the top four, if we had a striker worth his salt that could have helped us win just 3 of those 7 games then the league campaign would look completely different.

In those games we had clear chances to win against Hull and Everton for example but our strikers couldnt finish

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

^ Indeed. We dropped points against Everton, Hull, Sunderlan, Villa, Leicester at home and Palace and Newcastle away. Forget about our record against the top four, if we had a striker worth his salt that could have helped us win just 3 of those 7 games then the league campaign would look completely different.

In those games we had clear chances to win against Hull and Everton for example but our strikers couldnt finish

Beat the shite, win the league. Ferguson knew this, sadly.

[killer-heels]

Beat the shite, win the league. Ferguson knew this, sadly.

PoP posted some stats on our shooting and chance creation and it did illustrate we are doing well. Alas our finishing hasnt been great. I am 100% sure that the only thing that stopped us competing in this league this season was the lack of a quality striker.

Get one in the summer and/or Sturridge stays fit next season for most of it then we will compete.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Yep, I agree. To be honest, really looking forward to next season, hopefully contract shite will be sorted and we'll keep the same squad with a couple of good additions. Although we've still got the FA cup to play for (and, yes, a slim chance of top 4, true believers out there), I'm already looking ahead and hoping we learn from our problems this season. If we miss out on top 4, so be it, it would be very nice to get a trophy with the FA cup though.

[Kopenhagen]

PoP posted some stats on our shooting and chance creation and it did illustrate we are doing well. Alas our finishing hasnt been great. I am 100% sure that the only thing that stopped us competing in this league this season was the lack of a quality striker.

Get one in the summer and/or Sturridge stays fit next season for most of it then we will compete.

What about the manager's continual selection of Gerrard as 'controller' and playing Skrtel and Lovren?

Even with Sturridge fit, we wouldn't have challenged for the league this season. Our defense and midfield setup was really bad at the start, mostly due to selection issues.

[killer-heels]

What about the manager's continual selection of Gerrard as 'controller' and playing Skrtel and Lovren?

Even with Sturridge fit, we wouldn't have challenged for the league this season. Our defense and midfield setup was really bad at the start, mostly due to selection issues.

Yeah Lovren turned out poor but a lot of our midfield and forward play was hampered by our lack of threat up front. We couldnt play the diamond for example after Sturridge was out.

If Sturridge was available then we would have amassed more points than we did without doubt.

[PhaseOfPlay]

What about the manager's continual selection of Gerrard as 'controller' and playing Skrtel and Lovren?

Even with Sturridge fit, we wouldn't have challenged for the league this season. Our defense and midfield setup was really bad at the start, mostly due to selection issues.

But we still lacked a goalscorer. Up until the first United game, Balotelli played an average of 75 minutes per game over 10 games in a 16 game run, with a shot accuracy of 53% (shots on target vs total shots), and no goals in that period in the league. He had 16 shots on target in that time, so statistically should have scored 5 goals in that period - goals that might have given us all the points on more than one occasion (Everton and Hull spring to mind). So while our defensive issues would have stopped us from realistically challenging for the league, the goals we missed out on that we should have been scoring with a better or more focused striker would have probably put us in firm top four positioning, with United being the team worrying about dropped points, and not us. Our striker issues were far greater than our defensive ones were. It's far harder to defend as a team when you have an inkling you're not going to score. This is the curse of the lower table teams. They can set up to defend, but they know that without a clinical striker they'll get a point at best, so they start to take risks to get a goal, and that exposes their defence. Our players probably knew by the 5th game with Balotelli up front that the best they could hope for is a lucky 1-0, and most likely get a draw, because there was nobody up front reliable enough to get a goal when the chances were created.

[Kopenhagen]

Our striker issues were far greater than our defensive ones were.

I agree. If we had a reliable forward, even Sturridge fit for the whole season, we would be solidly top four. Some of those draws would have been wins, losses draws, etc. However, we wouldn't have realistically challenged for the league, which was what I posted.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I agree. If we had a reliable forward, even Sturridge fit for the whole season, we would be solidly top four. Some of those draws would have been wins, losses draws, etc. However, we wouldn't have realistically challenged for the league, which was what I posted.

Harumph!

[Kopenhagen]

Harumph!

 

[dogeibbor]

What about the manager's continual selection of Gerrard as 'controller' and playing Skrtel and Lovren?

If we had a better striker (aka more goals), then he might have gotten away with it. Goals change games.

[rickardinho1]

Interesting situation with our fullbacks:

Johnson, Enrique, and Manquillo probably won't be here next season, leaving Flanagan (who's contract is expiring) and Moreno as our only two fullbacks going into next season (I don't think Wisdom will make it here either). If we persist with 343 that's not an issue with Markovic and Ibe both playing there, but in  back 4 we'd have a serious shortage there, so I expect a fullback to be brought in, or perhaps Enrique will be allowed to do as Johnson and run down his final contract year.

Fantastic opportunity for Brad Smith, MacLaughlin, Randall, etc to break into the team too fwiw...

[clinical]

We need a top quality striker, and top new midfielder.we're that far away from challenging. Ings and origi won't cut it. We need a vietto

[BabuYagu]

We need a top quality striker, and top new midfielder.we're that far away from challenging. Ings and origi won't cut it. We need a vietto

12 months ago - would anybody have wanted us to sign Vietto? Last season, aged 20, he was scoring 5 in 36 games in Primera División.

Last season, aged 18, Origi scored 6 in 35 games in a tougher league. This season, aged 19, he has 7 in 36 games.

To be clear, I´m not saying Origi is, or will be, a better player than Vietto. And none of this is a slight on Vietto who I liked (and have since I first seen him several years ago); What I don´t get is how anybody can state as a matter of fact that Origi "won´t cut it". How can any definitive judgement be made at this point on a 19 year kid other than "he is raw but ridiculously talented"?

Almost all goalscorers don´t start getting good numbers until around 22-23 years old. Henry aged 18 has 3 in 22 games for Monaco. Then 10 in 48 the following season. Again, not saying he will be the next Henry before that is how this is twisted, merely pointing out that nobody would have looked at Henry back then and thought "He will be the best forward in the world in a few years time getting 26-39 goals a season".

[soxfan]

Interesting situation with our fullbacks:

Johnson, Enrique, and Manquillo probably won't be here next season, leaving Flanagan (who's contract is expiring) and Moreno as our only two fullbacks going into next season (I don't think Wisdom will make it here either). If we persist with 343 that's not an issue with Markovic and Ibe both playing there, but in  back 4 we'd have a serious shortage there, so I expect a fullback to be brought in, or perhaps Enrique will be allowed to do as Johnson and run down his final contract year.

Fantastic opportunity for Brad Smith, MacLaughlin, Randall, etc to break into the team too fwiw...

I'm guessing we'll hang on to Manquillo. I can't see us losing all three in one offseason. He's the youngest, cheapest and has more upside at this point. Unless Rodgers is projecting Ilori to begin as a pseudo-fullback given how our current formation looks.

[BabuYagu]

I'm guessing we'll hang on to Manquillo. I can't see us losing all three in one offseason. He's the youngest, cheapest and has more upside at this point. Unless Rodgers is projecting Ilori to begin as a pseudo-fullback given how our current formation looks.

Agreed. Also I think it was a 2 year loan deal so worst case scenario, we have a zero cost (bar wages) cover for that side of the pitch. I actually like him though. I´d like to give him a run of games preseason or for the U21 side as a RCB to see how he does.

[KirkVanHouten]

Sadly we're very far away. We wasted our chance to solidify our spot in the top 4. Our problem was that we lost our greatest strength in the summer and didn't improve in midfield or defence to compensate.

We're bad in the transfer market and that's why we underperform on the pitch. In the last 5 years there are only 3 signings which could be called astute. One has left now, one is injury prone and the other was instrumental in our undefeated run.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Sadly we're very far away. We wasted our chance to solidify our spot in the top 4. Our problem was that we lost our greatest strength in the summer and didn't improve in midfield or defence to compensate.

We're bad in the transfer market and that's why we underperform on the pitch. In the last 5 years there are only 3 signings which could be called astute. One has left now, one is injury prone and the other was instrumental in our undefeated run.

We're really not. We need a more physically reliable finisher or two. Get that, and we'll be solid. Our attack is top four quality except for finishing. Our defence since we moved to a back three is title challenging. We need to solve the one problem we had that Balotelli didn't solve, and that's another finisher apart from Sturridge.

[lionel_messias]

We're really not. We need a more physically reliable finisher or two. Get that, and we'll be solid. Our attack is top four quality except for finishing. Our defence since we moved to a back three is title challenging. We need to solve the one problem we had that Balotelli didn't solve, and that's another finisher apart from Sturridge.

I agree with you. But I also think we need more goals from midfield and we also need need to look at what happens when Lucas in injured, or indeed if he leaves the club.

The key for our forward line will also be how we arrange up top, someone to partner Sturridge and looking to use Ibe and Markovic in their more natural positions.

[Adeemo]

If we could somehow make the right signings, yeah I know, I reckon we're only 2 players short. We need another striker as good as Sturridge, who has a track record of staying injury free and an absolute star to run the midfield, for me we should be blowing the majority of the budget on these two players and as well as trying to pick up a replacement for Enrique on the cheap. Basically we need to find the next Luis Suarez and Xabi Alonso, not too much to ask, is it?

[Carlito Roberto]

If we could somehow make the right signings, yeah I know, I reckon we're only 2 players short. We need another striker as good as Sturridge, who has a track record of staying injury free and an absolute star to run the midfield, for me we should be blowing the majority of the budget on these two players and as well as trying to pick up a replacement for Enrique on the cheap. Basically we need to find the next Luis Suarez and Xabi Alonso, not too much to ask, is it?

Completely agree.

With the high earners that are leaving we'll have the wage budget to attract proven talent. I'm of the opinion the lions share of the budget should be spent on the attack. I'd say Johnson and Enrique will likely leave so a cheap full back plus if we could get Milner on a free it would be a masterstoke. That would free up all up the transfer budget to buy two top quality strikers in order to complement Sturridge and Origi. I think most (but not all) fans are in agreement that Balotelli, Lambert and Borini aren't of the required level of ability to play for Liverpool and need to be moved on.

[SerbianScouser]

If we could somehow make the right signings, yeah I know, I reckon we're only 2 players short. We need another striker as good as Sturridge, who has a track record of staying injury free and an absolute star to run the midfield, for me we should be blowing the majority of the budget on these two players and as well as trying to pick up a replacement for Enrique on the cheap. Basically we need to find the next Luis Suarez and Xabi Alonso, not too much to ask, is it?

I agree I think we can postpone looking at our defence for a bit - as they proved in recent months in the new setup they are as good as any other backline in the league - and focus on getting a striker and a CM and spending our entire summer budget on them two players if necessary because right now I believe we are in a great position by having good number of quality players in our squad and there is no more need to stockpile young talent - we desperately need top quality on top of that.

Overall recruitment team did a tremendous job over the last few windows considering how difficult finding the right players is - we got ourselves a couple of proper gems - so hopefully they`ll get it right with these two players, with our without the CL and we can push on.

I think we`re really really close and in the last few months we showed we can perform at the highest level as far as this league is concerned and that will stand us in a good stead for the future.

[Gnurglan]

I agree with you. But I also think we need more goals from midfield and we also need need to look at what happens when Lucas in injured, or indeed if he leaves the club.

The key for our forward line will also be how we arrange up top, someone to partner Sturridge and looking to use Ibe and Markovic in their more natural positions.

Goals from midfield is alright. We can always wish for more, but with Gerrard (6), Sterling (6), Coutinho (4), Lallana (4), Henderson (5), Can (1) and Markovic (2), we have 28 league goals this season.
Our strikers have 8. Sturridge (4), Balotelli (1), Lambert (2) and Borini (1).
Our defenders have 4.

This means our midfield scores ~1 goal/game. Give us strikers that can offer the same (1 goal/game) and we'll get around 80 goals in total. Should be productive enough to allow us to be in the race for the title. Our strikers have been so disappointing. Last season they scored close to 1.5 goals/game. This year, they're on roughly 1/4. Four of them. Combined. It's relegation standard output.

[Steak Bake]

I don't come on here as often as I used to but when I do, your posts seem to stand out and make the most sense Phase of Play.  Good stuff mate.

 

Agree with this, I come on here just to read his posts if I am being honest.  Really insightful.

[Miltonred]

Almost all goalscorers don´t start getting good numbers until around 22-23 years old. Henry aged 18 has 3 in 22 games for Monaco. Then 10 in 48 the following season. Again, not saying he will be the next Henry before that is how this is twisted, merely pointing out that nobody would have looked at Henry back then and thought "He will be the best forward in the world in a few years time getting 26-39 goals a season".

Henry wasn't playing out and out striker during that early period, he was playing left wing. That will affect those numbers.
Is Origi playing striker or some other position? Not sure.

A fair few players who went on to be top goalscoring forwards got their first tastes of first team football playing as wingers.
I see Jordan Ibe as the type of player whose versatility gets him in the team playing wide, but in reality I suspect the player is really a converted striker - that was where he played in his youth.

EDIT: This article just came up on the BBC - related to my thoughts.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32123050

Although if I'm Barkley I would be focusing on being the best midfielder I can be, since he has zero chance of getting a game as a striker.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Henry wasn't playing out and out striker during that early period, he was playing left wing. That will affect those numbers.
Is Origi playing striker or some other position? Not sure.

A fair few players who went on to be top goalscoring forwards got their first tastes of first team football playing as wingers.
I see Jordan Ibe as the type of player whose versatility gets him in the team playing wide, but in reality I suspect the player is really a converted striker - that was where he played in his youth.

EDIT: This article just came up on the BBC - related to my thoughts.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/32123050

Although if I'm Barkley I would be focusing on being the best midfielder I can be, since he has zero chance of getting a game as a striker.

You can also look (where possible) at a player's youth records. Top goalscorers tend to be top goalscorers as youths as well. I don't need to tell you that, though, as I know you know. It's like a "relative position effect", where young kids who score regularly as natural talents, will then be played up front almost all of the time, so they get better at being strikers/attackers than the kids who don't get to spend any time up there, because they play most of their time up front. Henry was a prodigious youth scorer, as was Owen, as was Fowler, as was Suarez, as was Shearer, as was Rush, as was Messi, etc. It would be interesting to see any reference to Origi's youth football exploits. Often, when a young player is made into a centre forward, there is a large dose of physicality and early maturity attached to it that the player can't sustain once they get to a level where everyone is physically mature. Our own Balotelli is, for me, testament to that.

Edit - this bit worries me, and ties in with what I was saying about size being a frequent determinant (often incorrectly) of a player's positioning, especially up front. It wouldn't surprise me if Origi's size and speed are what put him forward, and not his goalscoring record per se:

Divock, a defensive midfielder, kicked off his career at RC Genk, a club his father Mike won the prestigious Belgian Jupiler league with back in the 2001/2002 season.

Quote is from this website, from 2011 - http://www.futaa.com/football/article/at-16-divock-origi-is-scaling-up-belgiumas-youth-teams

[Sangria]

You can also look (where possible) at a player's youth records. Top goalscorers tend to be top goalscorers as youths as well. I don't need to tell you that, though, as I know you know. It's like a "relative position effect", where young kids who score regularly as natural talents, will then be played up front almost all of the time, so they get better at being strikers/attackers than the kids who don't get to spend any time up there, because they play most of their time up front. Henry was a prodigious youth scorer, as was Owen, as was Fowler, as was Suarez, as was Shearer, as was Rush, as was Messi, etc. It would be interesting to see any reference to Origi's youth football exploits. Often, when a young player is made into a centre forward, there is a large dose of physicality and early maturity attached to it that the player can't sustain once they get to a level where everyone is physically mature. Our own Balotelli is, for me, testament to that.

So how do you explain Paul Warhurst? Was he evidence of the shitness of English football?

[Hij]

For one summer, I'd' be happy if we can maintain the bulk of our squad, and all of the best players (beyond the likes of Gerrard who we know are leaving or who are getting on a bit).

Obviously the likes of Luis Alberto, Aspas, Johnson, Gerrard, Borini, Balotelli, Enrique and B. Jones could be on the move.

The likes of Sakho (25), Moreno (22), Emre Can (21), Henderson (24) Flanagan (22), Allen (25), Coutinho (22), Lallana (26), Ibe (19), Sterling (20), Markovic (21) and Sturridge (25) gives us 12 very solid squad players all with at least five full

Supplemented by experience, youth and players who should have a higher ceiling than we've seen so far in Mignolet (27), Skrtel (30), Toure (34), Manquillo (20), Lovren (25) and Lucas (28) is a further 6 players.

I want us to keep the bulk of the first list, and look only to replace the second list should a player we believe to better come available. I know it's never that easy. What I don't want to see us doing is selling the likes of Sterling this summer for a big fee. I want us to build the youthful squad we have incrementally towards one that can challenge for the league again. Bring in more experience where necessary whether that's Milner or someone else, bring in more youth where necessary. Presumably with Origi arriving next season upfront that'd be the youth bit ticked up and we could look for someone who is a better striker than our current options in the 24-33 age area (currently Borini, Balotelli, Lambert).

I think despite finishing 5th or lower (if we don't quite pip Manchester United now) we have a solid base from which to build, and our youthful players have had a season to move in the right direction.

I think we are close- and a comfortable window where our best players stay and renew contracts, and a few right additions of requisite quality to bolster the squad (perhaps one fantastic player if they come available, like we nearly got in Sanchez) and we'd be there.

[killer-heels]

^ Some of these decisions may have to be made based on contract situations. Will see what happens. Luckily we dont have a irreplaceable player for the first time in how long? We can handle any sort of disruption.

[farawayred]

^ Some of these decisions may have to be made based on contract situations. Will see what happens. Luckily we dont have a irreplaceable player for the first time in how long? We can handle any sort of disruption.

Very good point. The only thing I'd add to that is that we don't want another wholesale summer.

[Miltonred]

You can also look (where possible) at a player's youth records. Top goalscorers tend to be top goalscorers as youths as well. I don't need to tell you that, though, as I know you know. It's like a "relative position effect", where young kids who score regularly as natural talents, will then be played up front almost all of the time, so they get better at being strikers/attackers than the kids who don't get to spend any time up there, because they play most of their time up front. Henry was a prodigious youth scorer, as was Owen, as was Fowler, as was Suarez, as was Shearer, as was Rush, as was Messi, etc. It would be interesting to see any reference to Origi's youth football exploits. Often, when a young player is made into a centre forward, there is a large dose of physicality and early maturity attached to it that the player can't sustain once they get to a level where everyone is physically mature. Our own Balotelli is, for me, testament to that.

Edit - this bit worries me, and ties in with what I was saying about size being a frequent determinant (often incorrectly) of a player's positioning, especially up front. It wouldn't surprise me if Origi's size and speed are what put him forward, and not his goalscoring record per se:

Quote is from this website, from 2011 - http://www.futaa.com/football/article/at-16-divock-origi-is-scaling-up-belgiumas-youth-teams

I played with Steve Redmond as a teenager. He was a striker on my school team in Woolton. The number of goals he scored was outrageous. He could score from anywhere inside 35 yards, and occasionally would hit them from further away too.
I'm talking 3, or four goals per game. We couldn't lose when he played.

He ended up at City playing central defense. 

[PhaseOfPlay]

I played with Steve Redmond as a teenager. He was a striker on my school team in Woolton. The number of goals he scored was outrageous. He could score from anywhere inside 35 yards, and occasionally would hit them from further away too.
I'm talking 3, or four goals per game. We couldn't lose when he played.

He ended up at City playing central defense.

Not surprised. As I said before, the higher up the levels you go, and the less goals you start scoring, the more you get pushed back in the lines. Ajax's entire policy for decades was based on this principle. Top goalscorers are usually top goalscorers who have kept their scoring rate high as they move from youth football to reserve football to first team football and international football.

[Always_A_Red]

We're really not. We need a more physically reliable finisher or two. Get that, and we'll be solid. Our attack is top four quality except for finishing. Our defence since we moved to a back three is title challenging. We need to solve the one problem we had that Balotelli didn't solve, and that's another finisher apart from Sturridge.

How much do you think that will cost us POP? That's the one position that costs the most money. You look at Suarez,Torres, Aguero, Sanchez, Ibra, Cavani, Costa, higuain, etc and they cost upwards of £40m. We need someone of that quality. No more £10-16m gambles on the likes of Borini, Balotelli, Aspas and the likes. Reliable finishers are like gold dust and if we want one or even 2 like you suggest, we may have to go out and splash £60m+ on just 2 players and also offer wages that our rivals can offer. In my opinion we wont do that and that is the reason we will stay a fair way off. Until we start competing for these big clubs then we'll constantly be hoping that we unearth the next Torres or Suarez. Its a gamble that we'll be lucky to replicate.

[PhaseOfPlay]

How much do you think that will cost us POP? That's the one position that costs the most money. You look at Suarez,Torres, Aguero, Sanchez, Ibra, Cavani, Costa, higuain, etc and they cost upwards of £40m. We need someone of that quality. No more £10-16m gambles on the likes of Borini, Balotelli, Aspas and the likes. Reliable finishers are like gold dust and if we want one or even 2 like you suggest, we may have to go out and splash £60m+ on just 2 players and also offer wages that our rivals can offer. In my opinion we wont do that and that is the reason we will stay a fair way off. Until we start competing for these big clubs then we'll constantly be hoping that we unearth the next Torres or Suarez. Its a gamble that we'll be lucky to replicate.

I meant "physically reliable" as in "not injury prone". I think we can find what we want for less money than you say if we scout better than we have - in other words, find young goalscorers who fit Rodgers' defensive principles first. After that, it's up to the fates how they get on in terms of actual scoring, but we can't be any worse off than having a £16 million forward who has only scored 2 goals.

[rickardinho1]

I meant "physically reliable" as in "not injury prone". I think we can find what we want for less money than you say if we scout better than we have - in other words, find young goalscorers who fit Rodgers' defensive principles first. After that, it's up to the fates how they get on in terms of actual scoring, but we can't be any worse off than having a £16 million forward who has only scored 2 goals.

How hard can it be to scout a striker though? These days anyone who's played fifa or football manager a handful of times knows who the highly rated guys are, and strikers are also easier to quantify performance-wise (ie. Number of goals, touches in box, etc) than most other positions.

Last summer pretty much everyone on here rated Lacazette for example, and it wasn't hard to predict another good season. Heung-Min Son is another name Some were touting who's had a good season.

I do agree with you that we don't necessarily need to pay £40-60m in players if we are sensible, which I think the club will be. Hopefully the club can recover some decent money from Aspas+Borini+Balotelli+Lambert and reinvest that too.