Author Topic: Southampton Round Table  (Read 50901 times)

Offline Carlos: Very Kickable

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Re: Southampton Round Table
« Reply #360 on: March 24, 2013, 06:58:48 am »
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Yes, good points all - I agree that Rodgers is doing a good job and I'm optimistic about the future.

I guess I'm just realising that the rebuilding job might take longer than expected. In my mind the plan was that Rodgers would introduce a possession-based, "death by football" 1433 and the players unable to cope would be phased out and replaced in three transfer windows (summer 12, 13 and the winter between). We could therefore write this season off as transition.

Now, as you say from pragmatic reasons we have changed the style of play and formation from that vision in order to accommodate our best players. Sturridge would seem to be the central striker best fitting Rodger's 1433 and he seems reluctant to play Suarez as an inside forward so we have had to put him in the '10' role. That's fine but it won't change for next season. Same for Gerrard, for example.

We will obviously upgrade in Summer - most likely replacing Skrtel for one. But if we do,the new defender will hopefully be most comfortable in the 1433 which we won't be playing.

My point is that we are still in the phase of not having the right players to suit a particular formation - or to put it another way - even by the end of next season we won't know what our best formation is. Now, if that's the case, it just makes it that bit harder to qualify for the top four.

It would already take an improvement for us to manage top 4. It would take a HUGE improvement to manage it easily enough that we could do it without knowing what our best formation will be. Thinking back, I can't recall many other teams who have achieved that.

Unlike under Kenny, we are seeing career-best performances from most of the players; the odd exception being Skrtel in whom the reverse is true. I see definite progress and I buy into what the manager is doing. I just think that his hands are tied by circumstance to a greater extent than I initially realised.
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Offline L666KOP

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Re: Southampton Round Table
« Reply #361 on: March 24, 2013, 08:45:05 am »
You could also say the plan is a fundamental part of keeping Suarez. If FSG are prepared to back their new transfer team (as they have previously) and it identifies and buys well  (as they did in January) I'd guess Suarez will buy into the perception of upwards momentum and stay another year.

Absolutely, keeping him would be a real sign of intent from Luis, a nod that he buys in to what we're doing. I'm pretty confident, and I said as much in his thread, I think only a real superpower would tempt him away in the summer, and most would accept it.
However, a part of that has to be the remaining 8 games, we need to maintain our recent form, and if we can't catch the teams above us, we need to make sure we don't slip any further behind.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Southampton Round Table
« Reply #362 on: March 24, 2013, 08:52:43 am »
I think the main reason why Rodgers has deviated from "death by football" is a pragmatical one: we started the season with an unbalanced squad, drilled in the summer during camp to play the way he wanted, but lacking attackers, which led us to dropping points we could have easily picked up in the first half of the season.

Then, in the winter after transferring in Coutinho and Sturridge and with us looking to lose the race to 4th, and with no winter break, no winter camp (another ridiculous English football tradition) to familiarize Coutinho and Sturridge with "Death by Football" and the rest of the squad, and with the pressure coming from all directions to score goals and to pick up points in the quest for 4th..

I think Rodgers chose the pragmatic option of going slightly more direct now, I feel gambling slightly on the talent of our attackers.  He could have insisted on playing Death by Football but with two new players in attack not used to this style and not having built up automatismen (Dutch word for 'automatic process', implying that players are so used to each other and the tactic that they do things/react automatically instead of having to think about it) with our other players I think it is overall the smart thing to do.

Then again, maybe he didnt chose to do this at all, maybe our possession percentage was bound to go down after introducing two new players, that didnt have the benefit of summer camp, I dont know.

Now's the time to do it though isn't it ?
Season over, make this the beginning of preseason, let's revert to what it is he wants us to do. Then next season we're only 'bedding' in the summers buys, rather than two of the starting striking players as well.
At some point he has to say 'Fuck it' we're doing it my way, otherwise we'll have this continual cycle of 6 monthly playing styles, reverting to a more pragmatic style when the going gets tough.
As I touched on earlier, and expanded on by Hank, the next 2-3 years could well be quite pivotal as regards the teams in the top 6. We need to make sure that as they could be approaching a priod of uncertainty we are ready to pounce, as it were.

But as AL said, we need to do our utmost to 'make it happen' rather than hope it falls into our lap.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline No666

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Re: Southampton Round Table
« Reply #363 on: March 24, 2013, 09:16:11 am »
Absolutely, keeping him would be a real sign of intent from Luis, a nod that he buys in to what we're doing. I'm pretty confident, and I said as much in his thread, I think only a real superpower would tempt him away in the summer, and most would accept it.
However, a part of that has to be the remaining 8 games, we need to maintain our recent form, and if we can't catch the teams above us, we need to make sure we don't slip any further behind.


Indeed. Apart from the wider picture, you'd hope to see a bit more pride in the shirt, blood shed for the manager, than this lot managed last time when there was 'nothing else' left to play for. It would inspire the supporters. These things are so delicately organic - the optimism on the stands breeding optimism on the pitch and, much as we might dislike it, among the punditry (and I'm including "good" punditry such as TAW amongst that) - that it's actually influential.

Offline L666KOP

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Re: Southampton Round Table
« Reply #364 on: March 24, 2013, 09:51:39 am »
Indeed. Apart from the wider picture, you'd hope to see a bit more pride in the shirt, blood shed for the manager, than this lot managed last time when there was 'nothing else' left to play for. It would inspire the supporters. These things are so delicately organic - the optimism on the stands breeding optimism on the pitch and, much as we might dislike it, among the punditry (and I'm including "good" punditry such as TAW amongst that) - that it's actually influential.

The remaining games could well be the ones that define Brendan as a manager, I think they're the most telling games we'll face all season long.
If he can motivate the players enough to accumulate a solid 15-17 points it will show that the players have bought into the ideas he's brought, we have nothing other than pride, and a slim chance of Europa league, we're not on the crest of a 'first premiership' season wave like Swansea were, every game is NOT a cup final for these players, and some will be phoning Jaime Redknapp for reccommendations.
The proper pundits, and the more astute posters on here will recognise whether real progress has been made from last season, there'll be blips I'm sure, mistakes from Brendan also, but if he can avoid the seemingly 'down tools' attitude shown at the latter end of last season he'll have done well, and can only herald a more positive campaing next year.
A good run in until the end of the season should also have the players chomping at the bit in anticipation of next season, it should instill a real sense of excitement of where we're going, and what we may be able to achieve as a team.
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Southampton Round Table
« Reply #365 on: March 24, 2013, 12:48:06 pm »
Just on this note, there is definitely an opportunity for a club (let's hope it's us) to break into the top 4 and even beyond in the next few years.  In the next 2-3 years we will see the following:

* Leadership change at United & Arsenal, not regular change because the incumbents are iconic figures with long records of service.  Potentially turbulent times at those clubs.

* The affect of regulation on the clubs.  This may focus particularly on the new superpowers that are City and Chelsea although this really is to be confirmed i.e. will UEFA force regulation and if so how strong will they be or how well will the clubs manipulate the new system.

We are actually in a position to take advantage of the above.  But we need to address the constant state of flux that we've found ourselves in over the last few years.  Rodgers also has a huge opportunity with the youngsters coming through.  Let's say in 2-3 years Rodgers has been given the time and resources to build in the appropriate way then we may be in a position to knock our competition off the top as they go through periods of uncertainty.

To paraphrase, we may knocking someone off his perch.

I agree that in two/three years we could be back being competitive again for the top. In terms of perch knocking I think the Whiskey will probably do the job earlier..
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10