Author Topic: Suarez and Liverpool FC  (Read 68569 times)

Offline B0151?

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #600 on: June 25, 2014, 07:35:24 pm »
Honestly, the incident is more unnatural than grave. I've described these biting incidents to some of my non-football following family members and friends, and their first reaction was '' How fucking hilarious!''.

I told my sister who is completely disinterested in football. Her first reaction? Bemused laughter. When I told her it was the third time? More laughter.

If he was going around punching people in the face, I'd be more willing to condemn him. The fact is he's done the sum of fuck all damage to three fellas by having a nibble, and will probably have been punished for over 30 games for them. I'm not saying that's unjust by the way. But that's what it is, isn't it? If he'd broken three noses, would he have been suspended for less games?

I don't see how it being more unusual equals it being worse. Shitting on a fellas chest while he's sleeping is probably more uncommon than murdering or crippling someone. It doesn't mean it's worse though.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 07:37:08 pm by Bakez0151 »

Offline bclfc

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #601 on: June 25, 2014, 07:35:38 pm »
I've changed my mind on Luis... I think he should probably be sold if the right money is offered (it would have to be a lot).  Not as a punishment for what he's done, as I think he just loses it occasionally and needs some therapy to fix it, but ultimately he's 27 now and probably at the peak of his value.  What we could get for him now and in a couple of years is probably quite different, and we could restock with a few high-caliber players from what we received.  This is kind of the last straw, really, I'm sure just the headache of having to deal with his behaviour is a huge distraction for Brendan and the ownership, and it's not like they haven't given him loads of chances.  I feel sorry for him, and of course will still support him in the shirt, but in the end maybe selling him is for the best, sadly.

We could probably get Lallana, Lovren, Sanchez and maybe Pedro for what we could get for him, which is something to consider I suppose.

He's still my favorite mad genius, though.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 07:38:18 pm by bclfc »
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Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #602 on: June 25, 2014, 07:35:40 pm »
Ok. Going by your logic then. I go on a friends stag doo and shag three women behind my wife's back. She finds out and goes ape shit. Do I turn around and say its not my fault. Because Dave had a stag doo, blame him. Just think about what you typed before and have a think about it.

It would be  your wife's fault for letting you go. you are clearly a hornball!
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Offline rob1408

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #603 on: June 25, 2014, 07:36:08 pm »
I didnt say worthy, just a guesstimate, I'm only going on past precedent seeing the FA banned Suarez for 10 matches & the most FIFA have banned a player is 8 matches. 12 seems a fair guess, but who knows really.
There is no precedent, whatever the FA conjured up is irrelevant, two separate entities, two different competitions, two different code of 'ethics'.

Offline GODS LEFT BOOT

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #604 on: June 25, 2014, 07:36:14 pm »
The lad has a problem and he should be encouraged to get help.
He was playing for somebody else this time so I think we should just look the other way.
Ex reds mouthing off are helping nobody, except the papers.

Time to circle the wagons
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Offline Lenin.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #605 on: June 25, 2014, 07:36:33 pm »
The irony of this is, is that if Suarez has pre-meditated, he would've been calmer and probably wouldn't have bitten him.
Ha! I read that as premedicated.
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Offline perspectiveplease

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #606 on: June 25, 2014, 07:37:05 pm »
The irony of this is, is that if Suarez has pre-meditated, he would've been calmer and probably wouldn't have bitten him.

I said pre-meditated in the sense that Suarez sought to seek the same reaction he got from Ivanovic and have Chiellini sent off. On both occassions he writhed about on the floor afterwards and appealed to the ref to have Ivanovic/Chiellini sent off for their reactions to his bite (which the ref hadn't seen).

Hence why I believe it was pre-meditated and not accidental or a rush of blood. Luis is calculated and will do his upmost to win. We take on all facets of his play. Beautiful or shady.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #607 on: June 25, 2014, 07:37:42 pm »
Fifa will want to keep their star players on the pitch, and any way you look at it Suarez is good for Fifa. The amount of interest he will have created for the World Cup among casual fans is probably off the charts. In the same way he's also great for English media who sell more papers by exaggerating his incidents

On the other hand, Fifa know that by suspending him they could be easing Brazil's path to winning the WC (as Brazil and Uruguay could meet in the quarterfinals) which would be very enticing for them given how important it is for them (and the Brazilian government) that the host nation does well (to keep a fully-blown revolution at bay).

I'd imagine that if it was any other Uruguayan who had done that they would get a pretty hefty suspension, but as he's a star he might get away with it, with FIFA pointing at "insufficient or inconclusive video evidence".



Offline B0151?

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #608 on: June 25, 2014, 07:38:01 pm »
I said pre-meditated in the sense that Suarez sought to seek the same reaction he got from Ivanovic and have Chiellini sent off. On both occassions he writhed about on the floor afterwards and appealed to the ref to have Ivanovic/Chiellini sent off for their reactions to his bite (which the ref hadn't seen).

Hence why I believe it was pre-meditated and not accidental or a rush of blood. Luis is calculated and will do his upmost to win. We take on all facets of his play. Beautiful or shady.

You're absolutely bonkers if you think it's pre-meditated. Sorry lad, but you are. Is he unaware of the cameras? He does that reaction because he knows he's fucked up. Same way he goes down injured when he puts in a naughty challenge.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #609 on: June 25, 2014, 07:38:06 pm »
I've changed my mind on Luis... I think he should probably be sold if the right money is offered (it would have to be a lot).  Not as a punishment for what he's done, as I think he just loses it occasionally and needs some therapy to fix it, but ultimately he's 27 now and probably at the peak of his value.  What we could get for him now and in a couple of years is probably quite different, and we could restock with a few high-caliber players from what we received. 

That's madness.

So, not taking his actions into account (apparently) you think we should sell a player you admit is at his peak because we can get more now than in a couple of years... ignoring the fact that he could also help us win the PL/CL between now and then which would more than cover any lost value.

And buying players is always a massive risk, much better to keep good ones you have, ask Spurs.

Offline HighSix

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #610 on: June 25, 2014, 07:38:47 pm »
ITV early showed the footage of his first bite... Not seen it before but its so much more violent than the other two! Pretty much unprovoked & face to face. He is calming down a bit.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #611 on: June 25, 2014, 07:39:06 pm »
" There’s no excuse at all for Luis Suarez’s apparent bite of Giorgio Chiellini during Tuesday’s 2014 World Cup Group G encounter – nor is there any excuse for any form of violent conduct within a footballing, or any other, environment. He’s fully deserving of any extra criticism that comes his way as a repeat offender, too. "

Utterly spot on that mate.

The lads an idiot.
And what worries me more is his ridiculous attempt to deflect the referees attention by pretending he was the one who'd suffered, playing the victim, and its pathetic, and in all honesty, very very tragic.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 07:40:53 pm by shelovesyou »
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Offline bclfc

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #612 on: June 25, 2014, 07:40:24 pm »
That's madness.

So, not taking his actions into account (apparently) you think we should sell a player you admit is at his peak because we can get more now than in a couple of years... ignoring the fact that he could also help us win the PL/CL between now and then which would more than cover any lost value.

And buying players is always a massive risk, much better to keep good ones you have, ask Spurs.

Fair enough.  I am taking his actions into account, just saying that all things considered, maybe it's time to cash in.  But wouldn't argue against a different opinion.  Like everyone else I've supported him to the hilt, but things move on sometimes, and unless we win the Prem or CL next season, I would assume he's off, anyway.
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Offline Skidder.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #613 on: June 25, 2014, 07:40:37 pm »
I can't really answer that with statistics But you would be looking exclusively at attacking players though. Off the top of my head I know Edmundo, Romario (pissed out of a balcony onto journalists below), Neymar, Adriano (still lived in the favela he grew up in in Rio when playing for Flamengo), Diego Costa, Suárez.

There will be lost more though. Those are just the high profile ones that everyone will know. In South American football it happens all the time.

They are all attackers who learned how to deal with physically imposing players in street football. It's no coincidence that all these players spent the game kicking the shit out of Luis and are twice his size. He goes back to his instincts and deals with it how he learned to as a kid. In that moment he isn´t thinking about who is watching, what the stage is, what his wife/kids will think/say. It's entirely instinct. In that sense, he is still playing in the favela in that moment.

Did our very on Lucas Leiva learn to play in Favelas? - A big part of his game is physical and he isn't a striker.

Unless you are saying that Luis has deep psychological issues, I'm sure there are thousands of other Favela-like trained players who know right from wrong. If I was really going to try and further my point (Which is neither pro/con Luis), I would cite other players who have had hard upbringings and learned their trade in the slums. Quite possibly, Victor Moses (for example) and thousands upon thousands of African players, play football in arguably worse conditions and know right from wrong.
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #614 on: June 25, 2014, 07:40:44 pm »
It would be fucking great if they view it as violent conduct and give him a four match ban.

In one fail swoop he would have fucked off Barca, Madrid whilst leaving the English press and the vast majority of knob heads that support other teams fuming.
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Offline perspectiveplease

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #615 on: June 25, 2014, 07:41:09 pm »
You're absolutely bonkers if you think it's pre-meditated. Sorry lad, but you are. Is he unaware of the cameras? He does that reaction because he knows he's fucked up. Same way he goes down injured when he puts in a naughty challenge.

I'm bonkers then.  ;D

The ref can't refer to the cameras, they would be retrospective punishment. I understand why he would do it. His team are in the finals of the WC against an arguably superior side. They need to win to progress. They don't look like scoring. What's a good way of getting a goal? Have their best defender sent off, try get the goal, deal with the punishments after the game. It's not like he doesn't have previous at WC's.


Offline KiNki

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #616 on: June 25, 2014, 07:41:40 pm »
You're absolutely bonkers if you think it's pre-meditated. Sorry lad, but you are.

 ;D  cmon it worked out well the last time for him.  Failed to get ivanovich sent off and gets a ten game ban and the wrath of the media.  Such a sneak. 

Offline B0151?

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #617 on: June 25, 2014, 07:41:54 pm »
Did our very on Lucas Leiva learn to play in Favelas? - A big part of his game is physical and he isn't a striker.

Unless you are saying that Luis has deep psychological issues, I'm sure there are thousands of other Favela-like trained players who know right from wrong. If I was really going to try and further my point (Which is neither pro/con Luis), I would cite other players who have had hard upbringings and learned their trade in the slums. Quite possibly, Victor Moses (for example) and thousands upon thousands of African players, play football in arguably worse conditions know right from wrong.

Knows right from wrong implies that Suarez puts deliberation into biting someone. He doesn't. It's a rush of the blood response. Lord knows why, but it's obviously not something he thinks is OK to do.

Offline TheTeflonJohn

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #618 on: June 25, 2014, 07:42:44 pm »
I've changed my mind on Luis... I think he should probably be sold if the right money is offered (it would have to be a lot).  Not as a punishment for what he's done, as I think he just loses it occasionally and needs some therapy to fix it, but ultimately he's 27 now and probably at the peak of his value.  What we could get for him now and in a couple of years is probably quite different, and we could restock with a few high-caliber players from what we received. This is kind of the last straw, really, I'm sure just the headache of having to deal with his behaviour is a huge distraction for Brendan and the ownership, and it's not like they haven't given him loads of chances.  I feel sorry for him, and of course will still support him in the shirt, but in the end maybe selling him is for the best, sadly.

Personally not interested in resale value, would rather see little Luis banging in 30 goals a season for us and laying on 10-15 assists a season through his sheer genius on the pitch.

Also mate, the high fee/calibre players coming into Spurs did more damage than good. Not saying we would be as shit in the transfer market as Spurs but it`s not as easy as it sounds, getting a load of money, trying to recruit top players and then gelling them into a world class team.

Fuck that, keep nibbling away at the top honours for us please Luis  :D

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #619 on: June 25, 2014, 07:42:47 pm »
It would be fucking great if they view it as violent conduct and give him a four match ban.

to be honest that is all it is.

It's no worse than a deliberate headbutt or elbow.

Offline B0151?

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #620 on: June 25, 2014, 07:42:50 pm »
It's not like he doesn't have previous at WC's.

 :lmao

Okay fella.

Offline perspectiveplease

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #621 on: June 25, 2014, 07:43:55 pm »
:lmao

Okay fella.

You see what I mean, though? I didn't mean that in a snarky way.

He will do whatever it takes to win.

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #622 on: June 25, 2014, 07:44:29 pm »
to be honest that is all it is.

It's no worse than a deliberate headbutt or elbow.

I forgot to add it would make the FA look ridiculous.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #623 on: June 25, 2014, 07:44:50 pm »
Now that this has actually become a hot topic for discussion in US sports media, I just want to jump off a fucking cliff.
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Offline cliffm

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #624 on: June 25, 2014, 07:45:36 pm »
I don't give a toss, we should keep him!

Offline bclfc

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #625 on: June 25, 2014, 07:45:46 pm »
Personally not interested in resale value, would rather see little Luis banging in 30 goals a season for us and laying on 10-15 assists a season through his sheer genius on the pitch.

Also mate, the high fee/calibre players coming into Spurs did more damage than good. Not saying we would be as shit in the transfer market as Spurs but it`s not as easy as it sounds, getting a load of money, trying to recruit top players and then gelling them into a world class team.

Fuck that, keep nibbling away at the top honours for us please Luis  :D

Agree for the most part, my main point is that in a year or two Luis's value will drop considerably, and if we don't win anything next season or look like we will soon, Luis will, IMO, push for a move anyway. 

But I want to support him, the main thing is he needs to get his behaviour sorted out, whatever that requires.  There is an argument to be made that he is tarnishing LFC's image, which while sometimes overblown, is a legitimate concern I think.

One other point is, if he was playing for another Premiership team or overseas, would we be trying to justify his behaviour like this?  I doubt it.  It's imperative to support the players who wear the shirt, but there are other factors involved, and the club is still bigger than any one player.

Anyway, I've had my say.  If Luis stays, great, good luck to him, I'll support him, but he really needs to sort himself out a bit.  Bang in the goals, don't bite other players.  Simple.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 07:49:08 pm by bclfc »
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Offline KiNki

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #626 on: June 25, 2014, 07:46:16 pm »
Now that this has actually become a hot topic for discussion in US sports media, I just want to jump off a fucking cliff.

bah thats nothing wait tils its the leading news story over anything obama has or hasnt done.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #627 on: June 25, 2014, 07:46:50 pm »
Knows right from wrong implies that Suarez puts deliberation into biting someone. He doesn't. It's a rush of the blood response. Lord knows why, but it's obviously not something he thinks is OK to do.

Okay, I get your point and maybe "right from wrong" is the wrong terminology. But having done this three times before, blood response or not, its wrong, he's been told it is wrong. I'm not defending or attacking him, but back to my original point, there are thousands of other players who have trained from similar environments if not worse. It's pretty inconclusive if you ask me.

It's just Luis, our Luis.
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #628 on: June 25, 2014, 07:47:23 pm »
Whilst most Liverpool fans are now right in touch with Luis's mentality (previous suggestions that biting is a move engineering act now look way off as he obviously realised it was a mistake straight away this time and he loves playing for Uruguay) I think the reality is that many of feel a little more detached than the last one. The Chelsea bite directly impacted upon us but this one is different, Uruguay are more deeply affected now and Suarez's value has risen since then, both financially and to us.

If he's banned for Uruguay, our gain
If no-one wants him, we've kept hold of one of the best players in the world and he starts at game 1 next year
If he leaves, the buy out is now £68m and our PR disaster is over.

As a club, other than reputation, we can't really lose this time and, whatever you think, the name of Liverpool will get even more hits worldwide and more people will pay to watch us.

Take out the personal principles (which I am able to do quite easily as I hear of and see worse things everyday off the pitch) then the selfish supporter in me sees the above.

I'm not the manager so I don't have to bring my personal views into it, if it was an individual athlete then I would probably lose interest in him. As I'm a Liverpool fan, and we circle the wagons the world regularly, both as a City and a club against the rest of the country, then my external face will remain calm, my inner selfishness will be OK and I'll carry applying my personal principles to my own life, especially as I'd genuinely rather be bitten (non-invasive) than have my leg broken.

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Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #629 on: June 25, 2014, 07:48:14 pm »
That's like telling the Birmingham Six they can't have jobs because they were charged for terrorism, even though they were found innocent over a decade later.

If you believe Suarez was innocent, and if the club believes he was innocent, then you can't hold it against him.

Nor can you hold the Ajax bite against him.

Nor this one. Because none of it reflects Liverpool Football Club. It reflects Luis Suarez.



So you're saying that Liverpool players can do anything when they're away from club and wont reflect on us?
Doesn't make any sense to me, of course this reflects on Liverpool, ridiculous to say otherwise.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #630 on: June 25, 2014, 07:48:59 pm »
Personally not interested in resale value, would rather see little Luis banging in 30 goals a season for us and laying on 10-15 assists a season through his sheer genius on the pitch.

Also mate, the high fee/calibre players coming into Spurs did more damage than good. Not saying we would be as shit in the transfer market as Spurs but it`s not as easy as it sounds, getting a load of money, trying to recruit top players and then gelling them into a world class team.

Fuck that, keep nibbling away at the top honours for us please Luis  :D
Plus I want to watch him every week because he is absolutely brilliant and is worth the season ticket money on his own.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #631 on: June 25, 2014, 07:49:04 pm »
There is no precedent, whatever the FA conjured up is irrelevant, two separate entities, two different competitions, two different code of 'ethics'.


Fifa can't pass a ban on to the fa? Seen loads of different shit written about this. Anyone know for sure?
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #632 on: June 25, 2014, 07:49:18 pm »
Are you comparing a mis-timed tackle to a pre-meditated bite?

A better question would be: would people be defending Flanagan so strongly here if it was him who bit Chiellini? Or would he be shown the door?
IMO. It is a reaction rather than a premeditated bite. i imagine his mind was a complete blank when he did it, no thought to why he was doing it or the consequences. that's why he needs help. it's a psychological reaction rather than a premeditated vicious attack.
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Offline McSquared

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #633 on: June 25, 2014, 07:50:07 pm »

Shitting on a fellas chest while he's sleeping is probably more uncommon than murdering or crippling someone. It doesn't mean it's worse though.

Just what I was thinking

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #634 on: June 25, 2014, 07:51:00 pm »

Fifa can't pass a ban on to the fa? Seen loads of different shit written about this. Anyone know for sure?
There is no precedent for this kind of thing, and the rules don't really relate to violent conduct for passing the ban on,......

On the other hand, they don't say that they can do it either
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #635 on: June 25, 2014, 07:51:33 pm »
Did our very on Lucas Leiva learn to play in Favelas? - A big part of his game is physical and he isn't a striker.

Unless you are saying that Luis has deep psychological issues, I'm sure there are thousands of other Favela-like trained players who know right from wrong. If I was really going to try and further my point (Which is neither pro/con Luis), I would cite other players who have had hard upbringings and learned their trade in the slums. Quite possibly, Victor Moses (for example) and thousands upon thousands of African players, play football in arguably worse conditions and know right from wrong.

No, Lucas was from a middle class family. It would be the equivalent of coming from suburbs of Ipswich & Moss Side in Manchester/Brixton in London.

I am not trying to absolve him from blame just trying to offer an answer to the "why" question. He isn´t unique, there are a lot of players all from a very similar upbringing, play in his position and do the same/similar things. You are trying to find example to break my "rule" in saying that ALL players from that sort of football are like this.

What I am saying is.... for a player to get out of a favela and make it as a pro he has to be REALLY special. Because nobody really gives a fuck about favela kids or people in general. Go read the story of any favela kid who makes it as a pro footballer. They can´t afford to attend trials as they have no boots. They aren´t scouted. They are usually discovered by accident.

The ones that shine are usually the ones that won't be physically intimidated and the shithouses know they can't just take them out of the game with a shit tackle. They will always give back what they get. That is how they avoid being bullied out of the game. They are feared.

Now how about instead of throwing out random names and rebutals and unresearched facts about 1000's of Uruguayans ... instead you give me examples of completely normal, down to earth favela kids who made it to the top and didnt exhibit wild behaviour.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #636 on: June 25, 2014, 07:52:24 pm »
It would be fucking great if they view it as violent conduct and give him a four match ban.

In one fail swoop he would have fucked off Barca, Madrid whilst leaving the English press and the vast majority of knob heads that support other teams fuming.
That would be great, can't see it though.

This looks to me like a perfect opportunity for FIFA to 'prove' it is cleaning up its act by giving a very over the top penalty to a star player. It won't impact FIFA as he is out of the World Cup anyway and probably helps Brazil's laborious trudge to the latter stages.

Luis has only got one chance of getting off with this. Hard cash/15 brown envelopes/FIFA's exec turn a deaf'un.

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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #637 on: June 25, 2014, 07:53:01 pm »
" There’s no excuse at all for Luis Suarez’s apparent bite of Giorgio Chiellini during Tuesday’s 2014 World Cup Group G encounter – nor is there any excuse for any form of violent conduct within a footballing, or any other, environment. He’s fully deserving of any extra criticism that comes his way as a repeat offender, too. "

Utterly spot on that mate.

The lads an idiot.
And what worries me more is his ridiculous attempt to deflect the referees attention by pretending he was the one who'd suffered, playing the victim, and its pathetic, and in all honesty, very very tragic.

You are more worried by his attempt to deflect the referee's attention than the fact that he bit him?

That's bizarre!

I hope FIFA are of a similar mind. Luis would be back for Saturday if that was the case.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #638 on: June 25, 2014, 07:53:53 pm »
I do think he'll be banned for at least this World Cup and probably another several international matches.  It was on global television, they can't just look the other way.  Anyway, we'll see.
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Re: Suarez and Liverpool FC
« Reply #639 on: June 25, 2014, 07:54:12 pm »
Agree for the most part, my main point is that in a year or two Luis's value will drop considerably, and if we don't win anything next season or look like we will soon, Luis will, IMO, push for a move anyway. 

But I want to support him, the main thing is he needs to get his behaviour sorted out, whatever that requires.  There is an argument to be made that he is tarnishing LFC's image, which while sometimes overblown, is a legitimate concern I think.

Fair enough mate but for me he is only matched by Dalglish for being a genius on the pitch. We`ve had some greats in our time, Rush, Fowler, Keegan, Hunt, Torres and Owen (both for a short while) to name but a few, but none of them come close to Dalglish and Luis for sheer jaw dropping magic.

That's why I don`t care about selling at his peak/resale value. We could win the league with Luis and we also could end up fifth but the magic he provides along the way is worth it for the memories.

There is a an argument to be had about what he brings to the clubs image, but fuck it mate, the magic in his boots and his sheer will to win blows away any issues I have with that.