Author Topic: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)  (Read 56517 times)

Offline deadsetred

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2016, 01:30:41 pm »
One thing I would say is that Leicester wouldn't be in a position to win the league right now, I don't think, if they had to fight on more than one front all season. They've had no Europe, and little involvement in cups. I think you can challenge for the title without spending the same as Chelsea, City and United.. But to do so while fighting on 2-3 other fronts, you do need that depth.

One thing we don't appreciate as much these days is that, even over the past 2-3 years, how much better our squad is than it used to be.

Hard to believe that a few years back we were stuck playing the likes of Voronin, Ngog and Jovanovic in attack.

Offline jwill2127

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2016, 02:11:27 pm »
Massive thing to say the squad is better than it used to be. None of the current first 11 would get in rafa side at his peak.
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Offline the red symphony

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2016, 02:16:49 pm »
Massive thing to say the squad is better than it used to be. None of the current first 11 would get in rafa side at his peak.

Pretty sure he means bench strength. While the first eleven might not be as strong as Rafa's best, we do have better, match winning options from the bench.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2016, 02:18:09 pm »
Massive thing to say the squad is better than it used to be. None of the current first 11 would get in rafa side at his peak.

Sturridge. Coutinho. Firmino. Fuck me Lallana or Milner would be easily as good as, say, Riera on the wing.

I'm sure these would have got games, fucking hell Rafa would have fucking loved Milner, for example.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2016, 02:20:00 pm »
Sturridge. Coutinho. Firmino. Fuck me Lallana or Milner would be easily as good as, say, Riera on the wing.

I'm sure these would have got games, fucking hell Rafa would have fucking loved Milner, for example.

I swear some people think we had 11 world class players when we had Rafa here.

The fact is we really didn't, Rafa made some fairly average players look better than they were and those you mentioned above would easily be in with a shout of making one of his sides.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2016, 02:27:09 pm »
Whether Leicester finish 1st or 2nd (I hope they finish top) they have changed the game now, and its great for football.

Yes, the law of averages may still remain in the corner of the big spenders but Leicester have proved that the right signings, with the right tactics, with the right club atmosphere, can challenge.

We've absolutely got the right man at the helm to create the right atmosphere around the club, and he seems very shrewd in the players he targets and improving the ones he has.

Ironically its Leicester City have made me incredibly optimistic for the future of this club, particularly under Klopp.

JoMo at United, Pep at City...no expense spared for sure. Mancheater will be the City that fights for the Title...Chelsea might not be quite the force under
Whether Leicester finish 1st or 2nd (I hope they finish top) they have changed the game now, and its great for football.

Yes, the law of averages may still remain in the corner of the big spenders but Leicester have proved that the right signings, with the right tactics, with the right club atmosphere, can challenge.

We've absolutely got the right man at the helm to create the right atmosphere around the club, and he seems very shrewd in the players he targets and improving the ones he has.

Ironically its Leicester City have made me incredibly optimistic for the future of this club, particularly under Klopp.

What price would you give Leicester next season. Or more to the point what price Klopp for top 4.

JoMo at United, Pep at City, Conte at Chelsea. Plus the old Fox Wenger, add Pochettino on the rise (could still be champions) Where does that leave us, us with question marks all over the squad. If Klopp gets us top 4 next season it will be some achievement for sure.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2016, 02:30:07 pm »
JoMo at United, Pep at City...no expense spared for sure. Mancheater will be the City that fights for the Title...Chelsea might not be quite the force under
What price would you give Leicester next season. Or more to the point what price Klopp for top 4.

JoMo at United, Pep at City, Conte at Chelsea. Plus the old Fox Wenger, add Pochettino on the rise (could still be champions) Where does that leave us, us with question marks all over the squad. If Klopp gets us top 4 next season it will be some achievement for sure.

Klopp didn't come here for an easy ride, he knows the challenge ahead and thankfully he's one of the greatest managers in the world and one of the few who can accomplish it

He won't be settling for 4th next season
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Offline the red symphony

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2016, 02:33:13 pm »
I swear some people think we had 11 world class players when we had Rafa here.

The fact is we really didn't, Rafa made some fairly average players look better than they were and those you mentioned above would easily be in with a shout of making one of his sides.

The absolute poverty we had on the bench in those years is absolutely lost on some.

Offline jdillg

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2016, 02:37:43 pm »
The absolute poverty we had on the bench in those years is absolutely lost on some.

I remember Nabil El Zhar. *Shiver*

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2016, 02:39:01 pm »
Klopp didn't come here for an easy ride, he knows the challenge ahead and thankfully he's one of the greatest managers in the world and one of the few who can accomplish it

He won't be settling for 4th next season

That's a big call. Think he'd take 4th right now. I might. Really help to bring in top players for sure. Springboard to further success. I'd be happy with 4th..got to be realistic, even next season is early days for Klopp.

Offline jwill2127

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2016, 02:46:10 pm »
Poverty, so if you say we had Pepe,Arb,hypia,carra,Fabio,masch,xabi,gerrard,yossi,kuyt,torres. bench lucas,sktel,agger,babel,reirra. Excuse my spelling. Looks awful!!  Sturridge. Coutinho. Firmino. Lallana or Milner. would all struggle to make the Team! Maybe 2 of them on the bench.
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Offline riismeister

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2016, 03:03:45 pm »
Poverty, so if you say we had Pepe,Arb,hypia,carra,Fabio,masch,xabi,gerrard,yossi,kuyt,torres. bench lucas,sktel,agger,babel,reirra. Excuse my spelling. Looks awful!!  Sturridge. Coutinho. Firmino. Lallana or Milner. would all struggle to make the Team! Maybe 2 of them on the bench.
Coutinho would start ahead of Yossi. Sturridge would start ahead of Kuyt. Firmino, Milner and Lallana would all get on the bench ahead of Riera and Babel, and possibly ahead of Yossi too.

Offline Keita Success

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2016, 03:06:24 pm »
Coutinho would start ahead of Yossi. Sturridge would start ahead of Kuyt. Firmino, Milner and Lallana would all get on the bench ahead of Riera and Babel, and possibly ahead of Yossi too.
Clyne ahead of Glen? Probably. Migs ahead of Reina, definitely.

Offline poopscoop

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2016, 03:12:44 pm »
Coutinho would start ahead of Yossi. Sturridge would start ahead of Kuyt. Firmino, Milner and Lallana would all get on the bench ahead of Riera and Babel, and possibly ahead of Yossi too.
can't disagree with you there from a quality perspective. However, what Rafa did best was build teams that followed a script in much the same way as Leicester have this term.
Riismeister - If you compared like for like Rafa's strongest tema with the current league leaders, who would get in?

Offline riismeister

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2016, 05:11:42 pm »
can't disagree with you there from a quality perspective. However, what Rafa did best was build teams that followed a script in much the same way as Leicester have this term.
Riismeister - If you compared like for like Rafa's strongest tema with the current league leaders, who would get in?
Only Mahrez? I don't know.

The point of my post was to agree with the sentiment that Rafa didn't only work with gold. The teams he had available to him weren't THAT much better than what we have today. With some time to settle in, his knowledge, and his decision making, he made us a top, top tier team where the combination of whatever 11 he put on the pitch usually was greater than the sum of its parts.

I think, in time, we will see Klopp in a similar way. But with more jokes.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2016, 10:11:54 pm »
this is SUPERB from dion fanning.  a long read on our brilliant manager.

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-borussia-dortmund-europa-league/74236


Offline kennedy81

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2016, 10:20:31 pm »
That's a big call. Think he'd take 4th right now. I might. Really help to bring in top players for sure. Springboard to further success. I'd be happy with 4th..got to be realistic, even next season is early days for Klopp.
I don't think he would. I think he'll have looked at how this season panned out and will be thinking 'we can win this'.

I'm very optimistic about the next few years. 4th next season wouldn't be bad at all, but he'll have the players thinking they can do even better.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2016, 10:58:23 pm »
JoMo is just wrong. Please never use it again.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2016, 11:42:33 pm »
Sturridge. Coutinho. Firmino. Fuck me Lallana or Milner would be easily as good as, say, Riera on the wing.

I'm sure these would have got games, fucking hell Rafa would have fucking loved Milner, for example.

First three would be a huge yes IMO. Not Lallana or Milner though. And Milner has certainly improved and surprisingly his touch has improved a bit as well, but he's still far below what would be a leading central midfield player for a club hoping to compete in the top end of the table and in Europe as he was bought to be.
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The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2016, 04:10:57 am »
JoMo is just wrong. Please never use it again.

I'm glad someone else picked up on that! I was about to hit the "report" button.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2016, 10:39:17 am »
Nice article from Dion Fanning on Herr Klopp.

“Whenever I talked to him, he always brought it back to one thing,” says Uli Hesse, author of Gol!, the History of German Football, and, incidentally, a Dortmund fan. “There are very effective ways of bringing a superior football team down to your level.”


http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-borussia-dortmund-europa-league/74236
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Offline Dubred

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2016, 11:22:55 am »
“There are very effective ways of bringing a superior football team down to your level.”

Love that quote.

This man will win us trophies.  Don't know which ones but he will win us trophies  ;D

Offline mickeydocs

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2016, 12:29:47 pm »
JoMo is just wrong. Please never use it again.

Who the hell is jomo? is this maureen?
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http://statsbomb.com/2016/04/liverpool/

Interesting article here discussing how successful Klopp has been since taking over and what we can likely expect in the future.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2016, 12:51:35 pm »
He deffo will bring in Life Kinetik, is a big fan and went into detail in a german interview I've been meaning to translate for ages..will get round to it, promise!

Thanks for that, looking forward to the read! :) :wave
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Wow, that's incredible. So we're a good team all along?!  ;)
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Offline Shaved Crossbar

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Was posted in the stats thread a while ago, but I don't see why it can't have it's own thread.

The defence has fixed up and the goals are coming along now that we have a striker. We're just missing consistency. That stat about conceding with the first shot on target in 21 of 26 games is horrific.

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What does TSR stand for? Total Shots Registered?

PDO ?
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Offline Kochevnik

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What does TSR stand for? Total Shots Registered?

PDO ?

TSR is Total Shots Ratio, it's a measure of how many of the total shots in a game were taken by one side.  So if there were 20 total shots, and Liverpool took 12 while the opposition took 8, then LFC's TSR is 0.60 (12/20).

Edit: It's considered a very primitive, or perhaps "simplistic" is a better word, way of looking at how good a club is.  It tells you something, but not that much, because obviously a measure like that inflates the performance of a long-distance shooting club over a club that chooses better shots.  It would value, for example, an Andros Townsend special from 35 yards with no hope the same as Suarez dribbling past 2 players in the box and shooting when 1-on-1 with the keeper.

Double Edit: Just saw you asked about PDO as well, that one is more complex.  It is also not that great a stat as it fails to take into account a lot of things, but the short version is that it measures how good a team is at shooting combined with how good it is at saving shots against.  Basically, take your shooting percentage and add it to your save percentage and you have PDO, which is somewhat useful but is not as popular any more as analysis reveals that there's a lot of luck involved for complicated reasons that essentially boil down to the same problem with TSR (it doesn't take shot quality into account, like where a shot is taken from, for example).

Hope that helps.  Short version for non-stattos = don't worry about PDO, and TSR is how many shots you take vs. how many you concede.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 02:01:14 pm by Kochevnik »
Managers who have won fewer than three European Cups: Ferguson, Mourinho, Guardiola, Saachi, Hiddink, Hitzfeld, Clough, Happel, Trapattoni, Cruyff, Michels, Lobanovsky, Capello, and many more.
Managers who have won three or more European Cups: Bob Paisley

Offline Kochevnik

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Oh, and for anyone who didn't read that article, the highlights are:

- Liverpool's position in the league is misleading as underlying stats suggest they should be higher
- Desperately need a new goalkeeper, even a league-average goalkeeper would have us much higher up the table
- We take too many bad shots but this is improving
- Fullbacks are unbalanced
- Takeaway message: we are not far away, need to tweak a few things and change goalkeeper and we will probably be 3rd best team based on fundamentals going into next season
Managers who have won fewer than three European Cups: Ferguson, Mourinho, Guardiola, Saachi, Hiddink, Hitzfeld, Clough, Happel, Trapattoni, Cruyff, Michels, Lobanovsky, Capello, and many more.
Managers who have won three or more European Cups: Bob Paisley

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TSR is Total Shots Ratio, it's a measure of how many of the total shots in a game were taken by one side.  So if there were 20 total shots, and Liverpool took 12 while the opposition took 8, then LFC's TSR is 0.60 (12/20).

Edit: It's considered a very primitive, or perhaps "simplistic" is a better word, way of looking at how good a club is.  It tells you something, but not that much, because obviously a measure like that inflates the performance of a long-distance shooting club over a club that chooses better shots.  It would value, for example, an Andros Townsend special from 35 yards with no hope the same as Suarez dribbling past 2 players in the box and shooting when 1-on-1 with the keeper.

Double Edit: Just saw you asked about PDO as well, that one is more complex.  It is also not that great a stat as it fails to take into account a lot of things, but the short version is that it measures how good a team is at shooting combined with how good it is at saving shots against.  Basically, take your shooting percentage and add it to your save percentage and you have PDO, which is somewhat useful but is not as popular any more as analysis reveals that there's a lot of luck involved for complicated reasons that essentially boil down to the same problem with TSR (it doesn't take shot quality into account, like where a shot is taken from, for example).

Hope that helps.  Short version for non-stattos = don't worry about PDO, and TSR is how many shots you take vs. how many you concede.


Cheers matey - very helpful that :)
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2016, 02:15:55 pm »
Jurgen is getting under someone's skin (funny I always thought Jurgen's lotion was for watching Suarez hattricks  :wellin)

Who knew there are other uses --- public humiliations galore

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2016, 02:24:15 pm »
Oh, and for anyone who didn't read that article, the highlights are:
- Desperately need a new goalkeeper, even a league-average goalkeeper would have us much higher up the table

It's worth pointing out that the article doesn't appear to offer any statistical evidence for that; if anything, the stats suggest we give up an extreme number of high-quality chances. That should to some extent 'exonerate' the keeper, but the writer makes an assumption that he's significantly responsible for the quality of chances conceded, which I think is quite a stretch.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2016, 10:36:18 pm »
 :wave
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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2016, 11:34:00 pm »
Got a bit choked at some of those scenes at the end. We have such an incredibly fucking charismatic manager, and he seems to help make these players grow into giants in these moments.

Loved, loved, loved seeing Sakho and Lovren's intense brothers-in-arms celebrations together after each of their goals and the final whistle. I so want them to sort out their dumb wobbly tendencies for good and become the formidable centreback pairing their personalities could elevate them to, with hard work and dedication. Made up for Lovren in particular; I've abslutely laid into him in the past, but you gotta respect the man's attitude, and it's paid off spectacularly for this this season, after his nightmare last term.


This has a special feeling to it. It's not just the amazing game we've just witnessed, it's the significance of the occasion and the sense of destiny stirring up again. No chickens counted yet, but you can easily imagine this lot under Klopp putting us through the wringer again in another epic European tale. Looking forward to that nervous breakdown they're gona give me :P
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Offline rscanderlech

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #76 on: April 15, 2016, 12:22:03 am »
There is no question that with another manager, that result would not have happened.

This seems a far cry from the miserable circumstances we were in at the time that Klopp joined. Returning to the CL seemed impossible, our likelihood of winning a cup seemed low - the team simply didn't seem to have the 'character' or nous to win those big games - and we really looked lost. Our goalscoring record was relegation-level.

Fast forward a mere 5 months or so, and we are talking about how we are now favourites to win the Europa League! This is what happens when Klopp joins you midway through a season, inheriting an injury crisis! The man is on another level!

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2016, 01:28:46 am »
He feels every minute like a supporter with the genius of a world class manager. He's everyone of us , with the tactical knowledge to make it work.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2016, 02:14:01 am »
Klopp and Liverpool the most natural fit in history of football.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp: Why This is Going to be Something Special (Part II)
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2016, 02:17:02 am »
Couple of interesting omens:

Rafa`s first league game was away at WHL - Klopp`s first game was there as well.

Rafa lost league cup final in his first season - Klopp did as well.

Rafa had a Stevie G Olympiacos 90 minute winner at the Kop on the road to his CL trophy - Klopp just had a 90 min winner at the Kop as well on his way to EL final.

Stars may or may not be aligning this season as EL right now is practically our CL.