Author Topic: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)  (Read 57888 times)

Online Barneylfc∗

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #160 on: December 11, 2016, 06:28:42 pm »
Questions will be asked about Karius, of course they will. It’s inevitable and of course he could have done better, certainly for the first.

But what won’t get talked about, least of all in the media, is what’s happened so far in the second half, which is why Karius was bought and brought in.

I’d urge anyone to watch the half and first count how many touches Karius has, then how often he finds a red shirt, then how much time he spends on the ball. He gets us into attacking positions more quickly, more often and in far less time than the vast majority of other goalkeepers could or would. Judging Karius only on his saving ability is like judging Matip only on his heading ability, or judging Mane only on his skill on the ball.

You’re not going to understand a player, let alone judge them fairly, if you only look at one single aspect of what they do.

Surely his primary objective is to stop goals, not create them? We'd be minimum 3 points better off in the last 2 games but for his errors at what his primary objective should be. How many goals has he created?
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #161 on: December 11, 2016, 06:28:44 pm »

Matip goes, too.
Although he confirmed he wasn't, but carry on dooming
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Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #162 on: December 11, 2016, 06:28:51 pm »
Thought we created more than enough chances to win in the second half. Poor finishing.

Still in a good position but got to win midweek - can't go 3 without a win when the fixtures have been kind to us.
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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #163 on: December 11, 2016, 06:28:54 pm »
If I have to read that we're missing Coutinho one more time...
Let's just give up in advance eh? He's not available and we're not a one man team.!

We're not a one man team. But we lack quality. As soon as few injuries came about was pretty obvious we'd struggle. Our squad is pretty small compared to others around us.
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Offline proudred

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #164 on: December 11, 2016, 06:28:59 pm »
Weak mentality team.Corners are absolute crap,useless. Gini why the hell didn't he pass ball hog.keeper looks lost mignolet please.The only player that played well is mane and he goes to afcon God help us.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #165 on: December 11, 2016, 06:29:02 pm »
that just wasn't good enough. Dropping points against a team that's been totally shit all season. Karius needs to improve big time. He's way too indecisive and nervous

Remember in the summer how people were saying we've got a great squad now. Yeah some squad we've got when jurgen can't even trust the players on the bench to come on and make a difference.

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Offline Wool

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #167 on: December 11, 2016, 06:29:16 pm »
Frustrating to say the least.

Offline Iloveyoumamadou

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #168 on: December 11, 2016, 06:29:20 pm »
Firmino was horrible by the way. So ponderous in possession and wasteful with efforts. He slowed the game down so much when he had it. When Firmino is bad he is very bad
He really struggles on the wing

Offline North Red

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #169 on: December 11, 2016, 06:29:25 pm »
Sticking Klavan on was a decent shout, looked absolutely solid in the second half. I'd give the fella a run of games now.
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Offline ggcc14

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #170 on: December 11, 2016, 06:29:40 pm »
Bizarre starting position by Karius for the freekick.
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Offline pyroparty

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #171 on: December 11, 2016, 06:29:45 pm »
Prove me wrong then - show me where we have shown strong mental capability.

Plenty of times, at Arsenal, Chelsea etc etc. Hence why we are 3rd. My comment was more at your pitiful "we wont win till the new year" drivel. You're a disgrace, if there was a downside of Istanbul it was we attracted people like you.

Offline smicer07

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #172 on: December 11, 2016, 06:29:57 pm »
Keeper isn't good enough.

Offline Malcolm Night

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #173 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:01 pm »
Shocking. 4 points dropped in 2 weeks entirely due to individual errors by keepers/defenders. Should've scored more though.

Firmino does not seem to work well out wide and never seems to play well with Origi. Whilst we aren't a one man team it's clear how crucial Coutinho is to our side.

for someone who was certain he would score at least 10 goals by the end of the season Wijnaldum isn't half useless in front of goal  ::)

Still confident we'll keep our top 4 place but first place looks distant now.

Desperately need to beat M'Borough next week to get back to winning ways before we play Everton!  :wave

Offline 12Kings

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #174 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:01 pm »
so you don't think chelsea now will go without drawing at least half a dozen and a few losses? They will and we'll get better

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #175 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:03 pm »
Weak mentality team.Corners are absolute crap,useless. Gini why the hell didn't he pass ball hog.keeper looks lost mignolet please.The only player that played well is mane and he goes to afcon God help us.
I thought west ham defended set pieces well.

A big side, always difficult for us
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Offline CallumLFC

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #176 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:11 pm »
Boro and Everton away next. Not getting any easier.

Boro are going to play the most negative shite tactics.

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #177 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:15 pm »
Also congrats to Boro. We're keeping you up.

As I said last weekend. We wont win until the new year. Another season, same mediocrity, same mental weakness.

Jesus Christ you must be a right barrel of laughs at Christmas. Why are you even bothering to watch the games? Fucking pathetic attitude
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Offline Gazza-LFC

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #178 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:16 pm »
Thought some of Milners passes and  crosses were dreadful, should be doing so much better for an experienced player

Offline sms1986

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #179 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:20 pm »
Prove me wrong then - show me where we have shown strong mental capability.

That Dortmund game last season wasn't too bad, neither was the Arsenal one from this season.

Offline redalways

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #180 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:31 pm »
This has got to be the most frustrating game of the season.

This will  piss me off for the week now and work is tomorrow.

Offline Marty 85

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #181 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:51 pm »
I'm still here mate

alot of talking points, ill let it settle for abit but that made me smile

Offline lessthanmatt

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #182 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:51 pm »
I'm not sure about the comfortable top 4........ even with Klopp we still show the same weaknesses and there is still something missing from us!!!!!

United and Spurs just aren't as good as us, and I don't see them becoming as good as us (this season at least). Top four will be us, Chelsea, City, Arsenal in some order, but we won't be at the top. We don't kill games and we aren't tight with goals.
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Offline hide5seek

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #183 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:57 pm »
And City are seven points off the top, but I bet their fans won't be worrying just yet.
City will spend big to correct heir problems, they'll be fine.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #184 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:57 pm »
so you don't think chelsea now will go without drawing at least half a dozen and a few losses? They will and we'll get better

We look far more likely to drop points than Chelsea.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #185 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:59 pm »
Klopps attitude to subs is really really bizarre - genuinely can't understand it

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #186 on: December 11, 2016, 06:30:59 pm »
At this point I'd like Klopp to try Sakho as goalkeeper

Offline SwissV

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #187 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:00 pm »
Thought today we really needed to come out with a statement and fired up. Obviously didnt learn from last weeks mistakes as we switched off after the 1st goal and went into cruise control. To lose 5 points from winning positions in back to back weekends shows just how much we still need work. Think we need to give Karius a break for a week or 2.
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Offline plasterered

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #188 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:10 pm »
how many crosses into the keepers arms we made today is worrying. we seem to play longer with origi in but for some reason we no good at it. I love origi but i think he hampers our play. bobby wasnt in this game either maybe for the same reason.

we missing the option of sturridge and phil more than i thougt. east we get another chance to fix things quickly in 2 days

Offline Zlen

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #189 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:18 pm »
Questions will be asked about Karius, of course they will. It’s inevitable and of course he could have done better, certainly for the first.

But what won’t get talked about, least of all in the media, is what’s happened so far in the second half, which is why Karius was bought and brought in.

I’d urge anyone to watch the half and first count how many touches Karius has, then how often he finds a red shirt, then how much time he spends on the ball. He gets us into attacking positions more quickly, more often and in far less time than the vast majority of other goalkeepers could or would. Judging Karius only on his saving ability is like judging Matip only on his heading ability, or judging Mane only on his skill on the ball.

You’re not going to understand a player, let alone judge them fairly, if you only look at one single aspect of what they do.

That is all well and good, but if he is leaking goals at the current rate - then he can be Marco Van Basten with the ball at his feet at it won't mean a thing.
That one single aspect of what he does, it's kind of important to be honest, bit more important then releasing fullbacks 50m from their goal.

Offline Kekule

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #190 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:20 pm »
Also congrats to Boro. We're keeping you up.

As I said last weekend. We wont win until the new year. Another season, same mediocrity, same mental weakness.

Well consider us told. You can fuck off and not bother coming back on until new year then as you've already had your say for that period.

Offline Johns_Barn

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #191 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:24 pm »
The sudden drop off in creativity on the ball to painful to watch...slinging in shite crosses on the off chance something may happen really grinds my tits. There was a bit of sharp interplay in the first half that totally shredded them.  I don't get why there wasn't more of that...baffles me. Cold do with players that will take the ball and run at the opposition all day. Force things to happen.

 :-X

Offline Paul_h

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #192 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:26 pm »
cant blame Matip for the 2nd. Probably not sharp enough after coming back from injury..
too many players not at Mane's level, it seems to me...Origi jogs around for most of the game, Milners crosses, Clyne's too..
one day Clyne going score one of those chances he gets on a regular basis ..

ah well, still not out of it

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #193 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:36 pm »
Time we bit the bullet and spent big on a keeper. I hate scapegoating a player, but on the evidence of the lad, he's without doubt cost us at least a handful of points since he's been brought in, and Mignolet isn't much better and he's been here for a few years.

Anyway, we weren't as bad as some are making out. We're currently Santa Claus of the league at the moment - we're giving out presents left and right, and have gifted 5 points in the last two games, games that we've been dominant in. Sometimes we just need to slow it down a bit and learn how to manage a game a bit better.

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #194 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:37 pm »
Klopp will also be more frustrated after that than last week, I would have thought - he had words about us dropping our intensity and I imagine he'd be furious that we did it again, this time gifting a draw to a team who offered practically nothing. Honestly, they were shite. I think we really needed to win that one, psychologically - we just don't have quite enough, and I don't think we'll challenge closely unless we buy very well in January. We've got amazing foundations to build on, though.

And although Milner was quality, I do kind of wonder if Moreno has personally offended Klopp, somehow. Say what you like about the lad but he offers width, energy, intensity and non-stop effort and those are all things it feels like we've lacked at times over the last few weeks - we didn't have the energy at the end of that game.

In other news, I though Mane was quality, I love Origi and if he can play with a bit more intensity, he'll be an absolute monster of a player (and I can't see Sturridge staying beyond the summer, somehow, given that Origi seems able to match his scoring and, it seems to me, offers a lot more all round). Wijnaldium was class at times and it felt a bit like we'd used up our luck allowance with Origi's goal. We lacked a little quality in terms of the final ball but also just a tiny bit of fortune, it just wouldn't quite drop for us. 3 shots on target just wasn't quite good enough.

I'm going to re-iterate as well - the stats Sky just flashed up then are why Karius is in the team. He was quality in the second half, and didn't really have a save to make, which is kind of the point, really. 
He is the cat who walks by himself, and all roads are alike to him.

Offline North Red

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #195 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:38 pm »
Right yeah, maybe we should just sell him then.
Yeah because that's my point, smartass.

Offline redalways

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #196 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:47 pm »
Keeper isn't good enough.

Far too early to judge.

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #197 on: December 11, 2016, 06:31:58 pm »
Right now think the concern is more about how many points clear of 5th rather than off top. Winning the title would be amazing but a few years being consistently in the champions league, especially at the expense of one, or more, of the teams with more spending power than us, is vital if we are going to become a serious force again.
No reason after the start we had, through the fixtures we had, that top 4 shouldn't be on the cards, but if we are that easy to score against we could easily spirally into the Europa spots and make the squad development 100 times tougher.
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Offline lessthanmatt

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #198 on: December 11, 2016, 06:32:05 pm »
Weak mentality team.Corners are absolute crap,useless. Gini why the hell didn't he pass ball hog.keeper looks lost mignolet please.The only player that played well is mane and he goes to afcon God help us.

All bar one corner failed to beat the last man, I'm pretty sure.

Wijnaldum is so technically unspectacular, it's painful. Average on the ball, good off it.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: FULL TIME LFC 2 - West Ham 2 (Lallana '4, Payet '27, Antonio '38, Origi '47)
« Reply #199 on: December 11, 2016, 06:32:12 pm »
Klopps attitude to subs is really really bizarre - genuinely can't understand it
I think it's about trusting the team to put right their mistakes..
Also with kids on the bench, not wanting them to come on with too much expectation..
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