Author Topic: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30  (Read 39601 times)

Offline paulrazor

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Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« on: February 28, 2017, 12:37:09 pm »

Boring Boring scousers, boring boring Arsenal. That used to bug the shit out of me.

Well the former more so, I had one of them great feelings on day 1 this season, a game that is built up to be the be all and end all, and you buy into and it is even better than you thought. That is how I felt day 1 of the season, I knew I was about to be entertained and I was.
 
I knew not because of sky hyping the shit out of it, but because there have been so many great Liverpool Arsenal games down the years that left a mark. I just love it when these two teams go hell for leather at each other, I felt we sometimes did it under Houllier, definitely under Benitez, Rodgers too and definitely Klopp. I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes but I get the impression if we think of sitting back against Arsenal we will lose anyway, so fuck it if we go down, go down swinging. Like watching two heavyweights abandon defence and just go hell for leather.

It really is just a marvellous fixture, and both teams have reason to enjoy it. There has been everything, goals, last minute goals, drama, hat tricks, away wins, red cards, cups and titles.

Ill kick it off with titles, ok you won’t like it but you have to admit Arsenal’s win at Anfield in 1989 was pretty amazing. A brief description for those too young, Arsenal come to Anfield, it’s the final league game of the season, and it’s all or nothing. They need to beat us by two goals or more or Liverpool win the league title to add to an FA cup they won the previous week. An early second half header from Arsenal striker Alan Smith puts the game on an absolute knife edge and deep into injury time his team mate Michael Thomas seals the deal with the all-important second, Arsenal snatch the closest league title ever contested, on goal difference.

To be honest the drama only kicked off in most recent years for this fixture, the above was dramatic but it was a few years before things really kicked up a gear. There was some brilliance in the mid-90s and it was all about one man. In August of 1994 Robbie Fowler, at the age of just 19, scored a sensational hat-trick in less than 5 minutes to lead us to a 3-0 win, a truly phenomenal personal achievement. A year later in the same fixture Liverpool won 3-1 with Fowler amazingly bagging another hat-trick, this time it took a little longer but all 3 goals were set up by Stan Collymore, it was also a perfect right foot, left foot and headed hat-trick. That’s why we call him God.

Fast forward to the new millennium, two French Gaffers, Arsene Wenger with Arsenal, Gerard Houllier with Liverpool. Both these clubs were often unfairly labelled boring, the new millennium has changed it for me, in December 2000 Liverpool walloped Arsenal 4-0 at Anfield and a few months later they stole the FA cup right out from under their noses when two late Michael Owen goals won Liverpool the trophy.

There were many trophies won by both clubs in this time, between 2001 and 2006 both clubs between them won 2 leagues, 5 Fa cups, 2 league cups, a Uefa cup, a Champions league and Arsenal also went one season unbeaten in the league. That season 2003-4 saw another brilliant personal accolade as Arsenal downed Liverpool 4-2 at Highbury, the Gunners came from behind twice to win with Thierry Henry bagging a hat-trick.

The years when Benitez and Wenger managed the clubs lead to some fantastic matches, who could forget Neil Mellor’s day of days in November 2004 when his last minute goal gave Liverpool victory? There were unsung heroes too that have long been forgotten about, in January 2007 both sides played out an insane league cup tie that saw Arsenal beat Liverpool 6-3 at Anfield with Julio Baptista scoring 4 times. Two months later Liverpool (who had lost 3 games to Arsenal already that season) gained revenge when Peter Crouch scored a perfect hat-trick in a 4-1 Liverpool win.

The 2007-8 season served up 4 wonderful games, I remember the match at Anfield in the league ending 1-1 and it could have literally been any score after a magnificent match. Later on that season the two sides played out two further 1-1 draws before the main course and dessert came in one marvellous Champions league night. With the tie finely balanced at 1-1 from the first leg, Arsenal took the lead at Anfield through About Diaby in the second leg. A thumping header from Sami Hyypia and a wonderful Fernando Torres finish gave us the lead. Late on, Emmanuel Adebayor made it 2-2 but just as Arsenal though they were going through on away goals a late Steven Gerrard penalty and a very late Ryan Babel strike gave Liverpool a 4-2 win on the night and a 5-3 aggregate win. It was an amazing night.

There was more drama the following season when the two sides played out a sensational 4-4 draw with Arsenal’s Andriy Arshavin scoring all 4 of Arsenal’s goals which pretty much ruined any chance we had of winning the league in 2009. So two years later we got revenge, Liverpool now under Kenny Dalglish had little to play for, Arsenal hung on to small hopes they could win the title. The match had a long allotted amount of injury time after Jamie Carragher suffered a head injury. Robin Van Persie scored a penalty with something like 99 minutes on the clock yet remarkably there was still time for Dirk Kuyt to score from the spot with the last kick of the game for a 1-1 draw ending Arsenal’s league challenge for another year.

It was hard to find something to talk about many years ago, it is now harder to find fixtures to not talk about. Let’s fast forward to February 2014, Arsenal lead the league, Liverpool threatening to join the race, and one glorious afternoon saw Liverpool go goal crazy in a mind blowingly explosive performance that has my head spinning just thinking about it. It was seriously that damn good!

Liverpool were ahead inside a minute through Martin Skrtel and remarkably by the 20th minute, Skrtel, Raheem Sterling and Daniel Sturridge had shot Liverpool into a 4-0 lead, in that time Luis Suarez hit the post and Sturridge wasted another chance. The game ended 5-1 with Sterling adding another but it was truly one of the finest performances I have ever seen from a Liverpool side and under Brendan Rodgers we would eventually take the title race to the final day before finishing second. (Though we really should have won).

Last season also saw two brilliant games, a 0-0 draw at the beginning of the season which was one of the best scoreless games you will ever see with both Petr Cech of Arsenal and Simon Mignolet of Liverpool excelling between the posts, however the two keepers have had a fair bit of goals to contend with since. There have been 13 goals in the last two games!

January of 2016, Roberto Firmino and Olivier Giroud helped themselves to braces as the teams traded the lead throughout the night and late on Joe Allen bundled home an equalizer which was no more than Liverpool deserved in a thrilling 3-3 draw. I am now going to bring my review full circle, as we end with how I started, with the opening day of the season.

This summed up the drama of the fixture for me, Arsenal came close to taking the lead when they were awarded a penalty but Simon Mignolet brilliantly thwarted Theo Walcott, though sadly for Mignolet it was wasted a minute later when Walcott scored after yet another mistake from Alberto Moreno who had given the spot kick away. Just before half time we exploded into life when Phillippe Coutinho rifled home a marvellous free kick. In the second half it got even better for the reds, Adam Lallana slotted home brilliantly before a wonderful move was rounded off by Coutinho’s second. Liverpool debutant Sadio Mane then got in on the act with a blisteringly quick run down the right before he cut back inside and smashed an unstoppable shot into the top corner. To Arsenal’s credit they fought back through goals from Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Callum Chambers making it a very nervy last few minutes but Liverpool held on for a win. Incidentally 5 of the 7 goals came from ex-Southampton players. Useless fact of the day.

Both sides are losing touch with the top runners, Liverpool’s brilliant start to the season has been undone by some very poor form since Christmas, Arsenal have become restless under Arsene Wenger who after 20 years at the helm is rapidly losing the faith of some supporters (some rather ungrateful ones I might add). Arsenal recently lost to both Watford and Chelsea while they were also hammered in the Champions league by Bayern Munich.

I again envision two sides who will just come out swinging, given that we seem to struggle against teams that sit back that type of opponent might suit us down to the ground, here is hoping.



Team news: Dejan Lovren will hopefully shake off a knock, while Daniel Sturridge may also return, Marko Grujic is back in training but is unlikely to feature as unfortunately is skipper Jordan Henderson.

Arsenal: Laurent Koscielny is a doubt meaning Arsenal will probably go with Shkodran Mustafi and Gabriel at the back. Aaron Ramsey and Santi Cazorla remain out.



A win for Liverpool will see them leapfrog Arsenal to 4th although the Gunners have a game in hand. A win is now a must for us as we struggle to get back the momentum that saw us take everyone’s breath away on the opening day of the season.



BETTING ODDS (via 888 Sport)
•   Liverpool to win: 19/20
•   Arsenal to win: 29/10
•   Draw: 51/20

EDIT: SPECIAL THANKS TO TITI CAMARA FOR THE GRAPHICS
« Last Edit: March 2, 2017, 08:40:44 am by Hellrazor »
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Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Pre-Match Draft (Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30)
« Reply #1 on: March 1, 2017, 07:50:57 pm »
2-2 or an Arsenal win. There have been numerous goals in this fixture home and away.

For the first time I am feeling very worn out going into a big match, incredibly disheartned, disappointed, by this group of players after a very good first half of the season

Game raising c*nts is all theyve shown to be thus far. Too many false dawns.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #2 on: March 1, 2017, 08:03:22 pm »
Our record against the rest of the top six suggests a win or draw for us, which I can see happening, what we really need to do if we do win on Saturday, is to then go and beat Burnley.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #3 on: March 1, 2017, 08:11:07 pm »
Beating Arsenal is more predictable than a loss to Leicester was.

Their record away to top teams this season has been appalling. I expect a repeat of our Spurs result and performance and combined with a win vs Burnley after that we'll be right back into the mix.

Offline bird_lfc

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #4 on: March 1, 2017, 08:20:11 pm »
Can't even lie, I'm struggling to get motivated for this. All seems a bit 'meh' right now

Come on boys, this is the type of game you have thrived in this season. Pressure will be on Arsenal here

Offline RJ320

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #5 on: March 1, 2017, 08:27:10 pm »
Even if we win, I just don't think it'll be received that well because everyone knows we'll fuck up v Burnley in the next game.

Offline LFCEmpire

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #6 on: March 1, 2017, 08:28:35 pm »
Coming over to Liverpool for this game. Im not going to lie, I have often in the past been more excited for the trip but we are Liverpool fans and support the team we must. YNWA!

Offline AaronSingh25

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #7 on: March 1, 2017, 08:29:08 pm »
I assume it will be pretty much the same line up - better the devil you know, than something to go horribly wrong at this stage of the season.

My opinion - i think it may well be time for Firmino to come out the team. He's been woeful since the turn of the year, bar his brace against Swansea. Doesn't hold the ball up, wins very little in the air, isn't getting into positions to hurt defenders, doesn't get enough goals - but most importantly is badly out of form.

Anyone ever consider Mane upfront? Coutinho just behind him. He, Coutinho, is another not in great form. Bar some long shot goals, i'd argue we haven't seen the best of him under Klopp. Playing behind Mane, someone with pace and movement (ala Sturridge a few seasons ago) might be the way to go short term wise.

Furthermore, i'd be tempted to bring Milner back into midfield - possibly the holding role.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #8 on: March 1, 2017, 08:39:28 pm »
I think we will win but part of me wishes there is loads of changes just because of how shit the players were on Monday.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #9 on: March 1, 2017, 09:25:16 pm »
I think we will win but part of me wishes there is loads of changes just because of how shit the players were on Monday.

If only we had the squad to do just that. Topsy turvy draw for me here.

Offline Adam_LFC

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #10 on: March 1, 2017, 09:27:43 pm »
Apathetic as fuck.

Offline stockdam

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #11 on: March 1, 2017, 09:58:30 pm »
Apathetic as fuck.

Not if we put on an exceptional performance. Who knows which of our two teams will show up.
#JFT97

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #12 on: March 1, 2017, 09:59:31 pm »
Not if we put on an exceptional performance. Who knows which of our two teams will show up.

Think he's referring to himself ;)

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #13 on: March 1, 2017, 10:10:16 pm »
Wenger, like Pochetino, is a man of principle who'd rather enforce his game on us rather trying to stop us playing, that should work in our favour.
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #14 on: March 1, 2017, 10:12:43 pm »
That's true, but they have a good recent record at Anfield. Even when we've completely out-played them, we've failed to beat them. Just that 5-1 mauling in recent times.
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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #15 on: March 1, 2017, 10:18:12 pm »
A very nice OP.

Liverpool only turn up against good teams, that makes me confident for Saturday.
The battle of the bottlers.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #16 on: March 1, 2017, 10:50:29 pm »
Top OP Hellrazor cheers for that :wave

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #17 on: March 1, 2017, 10:56:43 pm »
Think he's referring to himself ;)

Yes I know what Adam meant. I was suggesting that he won't be apathetic if we have a great performance. Maybe apathy will turn into confusion or maybe anger or maybe a bit of happiness
#JFT97

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #18 on: March 1, 2017, 10:59:09 pm »
A very nice OP.

Liverpool only turn up against good teams, that makes me confident for Saturday.
The battle of the bottlers.

There are similarities for sure. Your lot are closer to the real deal but have been that way a long time.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #19 on: March 1, 2017, 10:59:14 pm »
Thank you for that Hellrazor. Some good memories amongst those games.
My first main memory of Liverpool v Arsenal is all those FA Cup semi finals in 1980 was it? Seemed like we were playing every other day.

Fingers crossed here for a win. We need it badly.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #20 on: March 1, 2017, 11:01:44 pm »
Excellent OP, appreciate the effort that went into it.

Expect that we'll probably win this one. I also fully expect us to toil and probably lose against Burnley the game after.
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Offline liverpool185

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #21 on: March 1, 2017, 11:03:01 pm »
Not sure how we are going to deal with Sanchez if he plays upfront after what Vardy done to us Monday night.

Last 5 against them at Anfield, we've won once losing twice and drawing the other two so they've had a good record over the past few years.

I know our record against the top teams this season has been great but I'm not sure if we will get anything from this match. After Monday's night horror show after having two weeks, i ain't filled with much optimism.
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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #22 on: March 1, 2017, 11:06:16 pm »
3-1 win followed by a 1-0 loss vs Burnley

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #23 on: March 1, 2017, 11:11:06 pm »
Enjoyed that post - cheers.  Lots of memories.

Looking forward to this one.  I'm not sure where we're going to finish in the league this year - could be anywhere between 2nd-7th - but, whilst we put our faith in the longer term, I think we've got to remember to enjoy days like these.  We know we can turn up and put in a performance here - perhaps even a devastating one - and whether or not some frustrating days follow (they almost certainly will, but we seem unlikely to resolve that in the immediate-term), I'd like some goals to drink to this weekend.

3-1 win followed by a 1-0 loss vs Burnley

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #24 on: March 1, 2017, 11:27:07 pm »
Time to drop the false No 9 Firmino, looks like he needs some time on the bench as the clearest sign of a player bereft of confidence is the first touch of Firmino we have witnessed recently.

Although Origi has not exactly set the world alight this season I think it's time we started to play with a player with the instincts of a striker so if Sturridge is hardly ever available then it's got to be Origi.

Oh yeah and bin off this daft idea that Lucas can cover as a CB.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #25 on: March 1, 2017, 11:30:37 pm »
I am going to the game on saturday and we better get wired right into them from the start and nothing less than a win will do.No more pissing about its time for the real liverpool to stand up and be counted.WE ARE LIVERPOOL.
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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #26 on: March 1, 2017, 11:33:31 pm »
Looking forward to this game, a must win for both teams really. We usually do ourselves justice against the top teams, so I am hopeful for a win. Should we get it, we must also win the next one too. We need to make a statement boys.
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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #27 on: March 1, 2017, 11:44:57 pm »
With no Henderson we should probably be changing the structure of our midfield rather than just thinking we can plug Can in - no idea if he will or not

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #28 on: March 1, 2017, 11:46:25 pm »
Great OP.  This is the best fixture, all the bollocks that modern football has become doesn't get a look-in here, except the fans' TV meltdown hopefully.

Ouch at that form table though.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #29 on: March 1, 2017, 11:46:35 pm »
With no Henderson we should probably be changing the structure of our midfield rather than just thinking we can plug Can in - no idea if he will or not

Henderson isn't 100% out, although he probably is.

Offline Souness1

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #30 on: March 2, 2017, 12:01:48 am »
Firmino has been poor for a while now and should probably be left out the team soon enough but I don't think this is the right game to do it. Arsenal won't sit deep and it has been against these sorts of sides where Firmino has had his better games of 2017. He got some joy against United and Chelsea and most definitely Spurs. The one saving grace we can point to is that we do perform against the better teams and Firmino is fundamental to that success. Next week against Burnley however, I would definitely go with Origi/Sturridge.

As for the rest of the team, I don't really know what we should go with for the deepest lying midfielder. From what has been mentioned Hendo will miss out and Can was dreadful against Leicester there, while Lucas simply cannot be trusted. Can will probably retain his spot there but I can't say I'm too comfortable with it, I think Arsenals attacking midfielders will get some joy out of him because tactically he is so far behind the standard of Henderson. One real positive is that it looks like Lovren will be back. The alternatives beyond Matip/Lovren have been painfully inconsistent this season so having out two best defenders back together is a big plus.

I've read somewhere that Ozil might not make it which is unfortunate for us. He's the type of player we could eat alive if we are on our game, its like playing against 10 men at times. I feel Arsenal would be far more competitive in the bigger games if they went with 3 industrious midfielders.

If I had to predict a score I would go with a narrow Liverpool win but I do think Arsenal will hurt us far more than Spurs did, which isn't really difficult in all fairness.
« Last Edit: March 2, 2017, 12:05:58 am by Souness1 »

Offline Souness1

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #31 on: March 2, 2017, 12:04:29 am »
With no Henderson we should probably be changing the structure of our midfield rather than just thinking we can plug Can in - no idea if he will or not

Yeah I agree with this but it's hard to come up with a viable solution, the strength beyond the first XI is so poor.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #32 on: March 2, 2017, 12:28:33 am »
Sorry to add to the chorus of misery, but if the players can't be arsed then neither can I.

No point turning up for the big games if you blow all the "small" ones.
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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #33 on: March 2, 2017, 12:37:44 am »
Sorry to add to the chorus of misery, but if the players can't be arsed then neither can I.

No point turning up for the big games if you blow all the "small" ones.

That's how I'm feeling as well, and I've never felt like that before. Even under hodgson, I knew we were shit and I made peace with it. But when you go from beating everyone in the top six to losing all of your games against the bottom sides, it's a whole different thing.

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #34 on: March 2, 2017, 01:01:13 am »
Sick of it. To be honest I've been feeling like this more or less consistently since Sunderland, certainly since Chelsea opened up a decent lead at the top. The crushing inevitability of it all, the creeping familiarity.

Get this, when I looked at the Boro fixture at the start of the season I genuinely thought I might be sitting there watching a trophy presentation.

So I'll go through the motions, take my seat, make a bit of noise, and go home without really being arsed if we win lose or draw, because it doesn't matter in the slightest, I don't want 4th, we don't deserve Europe. I'm going basically out of habit from now till may.

2017 has done me in.


Probably 1-1. Quite looking forward to seeing Sanchez, someone that actually looks arsed. Perhaps if I squint I can pretend it's Suarez.
« Last Edit: March 2, 2017, 01:03:19 am by Chief Skeptic »

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #35 on: March 2, 2017, 01:04:38 am »
I think something in me broke on Monday. Really hard to just not get angry when thinking about this game. No matter the result or performance it can't change the fundamental fuckedness of what we have done to a promising season as soon as it became 2017...
"This is Anfield, this is what they do." Thomas Tuchel

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Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #36 on: March 2, 2017, 02:02:34 am »
Sick of it. To be honest I've been feeling like this more or less consistently since Sunderland, certainly since Chelsea opened up a decent lead at the top. The crushing inevitability of it all, the creeping familiarity.

Get this, when I looked at the Boro fixture at the start of the season I genuinely thought I might be sitting there watching a trophy presentation.

So I'll go through the motions, take my seat, make a bit of noise, and go home without really being arsed if we win lose or draw, because it doesn't matter in the slightest, I don't want 4th, we don't deserve Europe. I'm going basically out of habit from now till may.

2017 has done me in.


Probably 1-1. Quite looking forward to seeing Sanchez, someone that actually looks arsed. Perhaps if I squint I can pretend it's Suarez.

I don't care if we deserve 4th or not [and i have no idea how you come to that] , I want us to finish 4th because it is important for this club to move forward and build.


Online mattD

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #37 on: March 2, 2017, 02:43:49 am »
I don't care if we deserve 4th or not [and i have no idea how you come to that] , I want us to finish 4th because it is important for this club to move forward and build.

That's no happening, certainly not with the way FSG run us.

Offline jonytoe

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #38 on: March 2, 2017, 03:08:01 am »
It has been hard, it has hurt, the game against Leicester made me feel sick but I have hope.

If we find a way to navigate Arsenal and our remaining fixtures I have hope we can improve on last season.

My hope is that amongst the crappy results now, Klopp is making the long term decisions that are correcting the path we are on. Correcting this mindset that is in all of us now that we can find a way to lose (that sinking feeling everytime we concede and go behind in a game). The mindset we are trying to get to is that we can find a way to win.

Big decisions are being made and although people are crying out now for solutions, after the run of results since January, I appreciate that he hasn't just thrown in his conviction and will only buy when he thinks it is right for the club over the long term.

I look at Mane and I know that if we get one signing again like that in the summer, I know we will be even better next year. And if we keep doing that, we will better the year after and the year after that.

For now we just get to watch the game against Arsenal and see how that 90 minutes unfolds.

Offline Garnier

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Re: Liverpool vs Arsenal March 4th 2017. KO 5.30
« Reply #39 on: March 2, 2017, 03:19:59 am »
i would enjoy a win, but not truly enjoy it ,because it wouldn't really show that we've made progress or turned a corner on our issues against the sides that we should supposedly be beating. But beating a rival is always a happy feeling.

Having read the OP it's very well written. Good job.
The change is cast