Topic: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager (ours to keep - or at least till 2018)

[Funky_Gibbons]

Just checking you're paying attention.......

[SerbianScouser]

BP is a jokester. There is no way he rates Lambert to be anywhere near the quality of BR. He is just taking the mick of Evans` comments.

[brownie 09]

villa are on course to get the exact same points tally as last year hahaha what an improvement! wow! they have 28points from 26 games thats 1.07 a game with 12 games left that equates to 12.84 points. that will leave them on 41 points, the exact same what they got last season.

Kinell, lambert looks better on paper. does it fuck, finishing from 10th-20th is no different (bar relegation obviously but in general any team below 8th can drop into relegation the next season.).

[Redman0151]

Here's the gem comparing lambert to Rodgers if anyone missed it

@LFCZA: Evans - "I think he has more potential to grow than Rodgers. It's my opinion. He might not have as much success as he'll never have a Suarez

[BreakfastPercy]

Don't think Tony was unfair in his comments at all. Has everybody read the full webchat?

"If they finish in the top four - which they should - you've got to credit #Rodgers. He picks the team and sets it up."

Some things worth remembering, though. #Rodgers inherited #Suarez & initially didnt want #Sturridge & scuppered the 1st deal"

Tony's pretty positive there, and it's true Rodgers didn't want Sturridge. FSG set up a deal in the summer and Rodgers pulled the plug basically without permission because he wanted Dempsey. FSG got all the flack that summer but Rodgers could have had Sturridge 6 months earlier. That whole episode basically fucked our entire season. As I said a million times last season there's bee huge progress but in terms of Rodgers record? 7th means fuck all, and it wasn't any kind of measurable achievement. Keeping Villa up probably was.

"He still makes mistakes but is on the right track. He's been a luckier than most manager but he's proved his talent."

All true no? He was luckier than most managers to step from Swansea to Liverpool, he does continue to make mistakes and he has proved his talent.

Asked if Lambert is a better manager than Rodgers?

"Lambert will be around a long time. He hasn't had the benefits some other coaches have but judging by his demeanour and attitude, he'll turn out to be a manager of substance."

Pushed on whether he thinks Lambert or Rodgers will be better

"I think Lambert will be a better manager in the long term than Rodgers. It will depend how that develop as men and managers but Lambert is a more substantial presence and has a very good tactical mind. Of course, as only the here and now matters RODGERS IS GOD AND ANYONE WHO SUGGESTS HE ISN'T SHOULD BE BURNT AT THE STAKE! I think he has more potential to grow than Rodgers. It's my opinion. He might not have as much success as he'll never have a Suarez."

I've never once said I think Lambert is better than Rodgers, just think it's a bit harsh slating Tony Evans without reading what he's said. Lambert has WWWLLD against Rodgers in the Premier League, so it's ridiculous to say he has no tactical nous whilst lauding Rodgers.

[Funky_Gibbons]

The full quotes don't seem any better than the paraphrased ones really, he comes across as very bitter.

You talk of Rodgers fucking up our season by not signing Sturridge while Lambert gets credit for finishing on 41pts and just avoiding relegation while refusing to play their +£20m striker.

As for Lambert's record against Rodgers, is that how you judge whether a manager is tactically adept by judging him against one other manager or against the rest of the league? Rodgers has shown considerable improvement while Lambert has stagnated.

[IndianRed]

BP, it isn't just this one interview that people are taking issue with. It is Evans' inability to say one good thing about Rodgers without a sting in the tail at the end of it. When he has been doing it for nigh-on close to two seasons, then you know it has become an agenda with Evans. 

Tony's pretty positive there, and it's true Rodgers didn't want Sturridge. FSG set up a deal in the summer and Rodgers pulled the plug basically without permission because he wanted Dempsey. FSG got all the flack that summer but Rodgers could have had Sturridge 6 months earlier. That whole episode basically fucked our entire season. As I said a million times last season there's bee huge progress but in terms of Rodgers record? 7th means fuck all, and it wasn't any kind of measurable achievement. Keeping Villa up probably was.

The Sturridge deal requires context, something Evans and yourself are blatantly ignoring. During the entire summer of 2012, we spent looking at a goalscoring midfielder after having signed Borini to act as backup striker. In hindsight, It was sheer bad luck that Borini had such a blighted injury-ridden season after breaking his ankle playing for the Italian U-21s. We lost out on Gylfi to Spurs and then we made the decision to pursue Dempsey who had come off a fine season with Fulham. Sturridge, on the other hand, had just suffered from a bout of Bacterial Meningitis after the Olympics and the initial prognosis from the Chelsea camp was that it might be until November before he could be match-fit again. In what way would signing Sturridge (on a loan deal too, IIRC) in the summer of 2012 have helped us any better if it was going take till November before he could play a single minute for us? And not to forget that our fans probably have a dim view of signing injured strikers after the Carroll saga. Rodgers was planning for the here and now with the Dempsey deal, and miraculously, we managed to send Carroll on loan and then fuck up the Dempsey deal and ended up letting him go to Spurs as well. That summer was a blatant failure on FSG's part to back their new manager's plans for his team. That Sigurdsson and Dempsey failed at Spurs is irrelevant seeing that Rodgers is a far better coach than AVB is at getting the best out of his attacking players.

Also, keeping Villa up would be the least expected from Lambert. Villa's squad is no way near relegation material. At best, Lambert is treading water keeping them up in the same way Rodgers was treading water keeping us 7th.

And Evans' ridiculous claim that it was inheriting Suarez that is keeping Rodgers currently flying high in the table gets my goat each time. Suarez was a very talented, albeit extremely inefficient attacking player under Kenny. The stats and my own eyes support that. Rodgers made the decision to build our side around Luis and has transformed him into the same category of players as Ronaldo and Messi. Ignoring the impact of Rodgers' coaching into Suarez's monstrous improvement these past two seasons is typical of someone with an agenda. I don't see Evans claiming at any point that Guardiola inherited Messi and that he made bad transfer decisions. These things happen to every manager. Singling that out with Rodgers leaves an impression of a very bitter man.

All true no? He was luckier than most managers to step from Swansea to Liverpool, he does continue to make mistakes and he has proved his talent.

Asked if Lambert is a better manager than Rodgers?

Pushed on whether he thinks Lambert or Rodgers will be better

I've never once said I think Lambert is better than Rodgers, just think it's a bit harsh slating Tony Evans without reading what he's said. Lambert has WWWLLD against Rodgers in the Premier League, so it's ridiculous to say he has no tactical nous whilst lauding Rodgers.

Rodgers had to go through a rigorous interview process like other managers under consideration at the time during which he earned the right to become manager of LFC. We didn't have someone like Ferguson handing out free managerial jobs to his mates in the LMA. Was he lucky to be considered for the interview in the first place? Yes. But the luck card ends there.

Again, considering Lambert to be a better manager than Rodgers when Lambert has shown nothing of that sort thus far is pretty farcical arguing from Evans. Steve Bruce had a better head to head record against Rafa in the league for a time. It doesn't mean anything in the overall context. There are certain styles of play that managers tend to struggle with more than most and Lambert's physical, long-ball counter-attacking style seems to be a bit of an Achilles-heel for Rodgers. I'm sure this time next season we won't be having this conversation. The ceiling to our style of football is almost limitless if we can sign the right type of players this summer. But for Lambert's style of percentage football, there is always a limit beyond which he will struggle to get past unless he re-invents himself. Otherwise, as PoP said, Lambert will end up in the same pile of managers as Moyes and Allardyce.

[BER]

Tony Evans just further proving what we all know about him already. He desperately wants Rodgers to fail. The bitter poisonous bellend.

[Eternalsungod]

Rodgers had to go through a rigorous interview process like other managers under consideration at the time during which he earned the right to become manager of LFC. We didn't have someone like Ferguson handing out free managerial jobs to his mates in the LMA. Was he lucky to be considered for the interview in the first place? Yes. But the luck card ends there.

I'd say his luck was partly of his own making as well. The balls he had saying he wasn't interested if they weren't sure. I think those balls impressed and made a few american sports-businessmen extremely curious. Intriguing balls on the man, intriguing balls indeed.

[007.lankyguy]

Here's the gem comparing lambert to Rodgers if anyone missed it

@LFCZA: Evans - "I think he has more potential to grow than Rodgers. It's my opinion. He might not have as much success as he'll never have a Suarez

That is an unbelievable comment. That's the same Suarez who was in the team under Kenny when we finished 8th...

The thing is, I actually respect Tony but he clearly has an irrational dislike or at least distrust of Rodgers.

[Brentieke]

The thing is, it's not just about winning.

It's how we're winning.

I'm 33. I've been supporting Liverpool since I was 5. I fell for the Reds properly when Barnes was signed. The first team I truly saw was Kenny's 87-91 vintage.

So basically, you can say I got my footballing education from that side. The triangles, the short passing, Beardsley dropping off the striker, Barnes' magnificent wing play, the late runs into the box from midfield by Mcmahon and Houghton, the comeback wins, the never say die attitude.

That was the Liverpool I fell in love with. The style of play that got me hooked. Since then, every Liverpool side I've watched has always been compared to that team for me. Look at my first few posts on this forum 9 years ago or so and you'll see me moaning (as ever) of our transfer market failings. You'll see me begging for a Pablo Aimar (i.e. a Beardsley type). For flair. For more creativity.

For close to 15 years (since 97 basically. Just after my desire for a defensive midfielder was sated by Paul Ince...), I've been begging Liverpool bosses to buy that sort of player. The type that can unlock tight defenses. That can thread a through ball through an eye of a needle. That can terrify defenders with pace and guile, creativity and flair. And year after year, I had to see the likes of Overmars,  Pires, Ronaldo and Modric being snapped up by other teams while we signed the likes of  Leonhardsen, Barmby, Kuyt and Jovanovic: hard workers, first and foremost. Flair and trickery sacrificed for keeping the shape and defensive solidity.

Why? Because since Evans decided he needed more workers in the side after the debacle of Spring 1997, every manager we've had has valued workers over flair players.

Houllier brought success but he also brought some of the most mind numbingly boring football I've ever seen. He had the closest thing to Peter Beardsley in modern football (Number 37) and used him like he was John Fashanu.

Rafa brought success, amazing nights and for a few months some wonderful attacking play, but he also brought a sometimes spirit crushing refusal to take risks, to go for broke, to sacrifice the system for more creativity. He spent fortunes on every position except attacking midfield. He was all about compactness, the shape, control.

Hodgson was Hodgson and Kenny was hamstrung from the very start with a 35m pounds absolute fuck up of a signing who was so limited he required us to go spend more fortunes on limited players to bring the best out of his limited skill set. We all, for a couple of lovely months in Spring 2011 saw a version of a modern Liverpool which mirrored the 87-91 vintage. But then, it was gone with the need to limit our attacking play with our limited record signing.

In Brendan Rodgers, we have a man who puts flair before anything else. We have a man who's first thought is attack. Whose every thought is about scoring goals. It's about winning football matches. Who will not hesitate to go for broke if we're drawing, who wants us to play exactly like the 87-91 vintage did. And, Jesus Christ, he's very close to making it happen.

Philippe Coutinho is exactly the type of player that I've been begging us to sign since Mcmanaman left in 1999. He's the Peter Beardsley we've been crying out for years. He's a player who is full of flair, creativity, vision and skill. And Rodgers adores him, absolutely swears by him. Raheem Sterling is the closest thing (but still miles away) from a John Barnes for 2 decades. Full of flair, pace, trickery and fight. And he's 19. Rodgers adores, has played him since he was 17, has never wavered in his support for him.

We have the best player I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt in my life in Luis Suarez. A man for which the word flair is not enough. And we have Daniel Sturridge, a man who is scoring goals faster than ANY Liverpool striker in modern Liverpool history.

This isn't about Rodgers getting lucky. This isn't about Lambert being better. This shit did not just happen. It was Rodgers who had the balls to play Sterling (even at 17 years of age). It was Rodgers who went out and bought Coutinho when most of our previous managers would have had not touched him with a barge pole. It is Rodgers who is getting Sturridge to look like the English Thierry Henry. And it is Rodgers that is getting Luis Suarez to break goalscoring record after goal scoring record.

For those who know me, you'll know how adamant I was from the start that the Carroll - Suarez partnership was doomed to fail. I was going nuts at how we were wasting Suarez's talent, using him like Jermaine Defoe, when he was so much better than that.  I argued endlessly on here that we needed to surround him with movement, with pace and with intelligent footballers. Well Rodgers came in, sent Carroll packing , backed himself, backed Luis and now look. We have 2 strikers that have more than 1 goals a start this season in the league. THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE. BY ANYONE.

It's because of all of this that I look at Rodgers and give him my full support. People can't just brush off what's been happening this season (and indeed since last Jan) as luck or anything else. It's genius. We've beaten teams by 4 goals or more 5 times this season. Do you know how many times Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and United have done that combined? ZERO. Not once. Everton? 1 time. City? 4 times- and they have had 5 years or so to Billion pounds up their squad.

You know what…  Fuck our rivals. Compare us to our previous manager. We’ve beaten teams by 4 goals or more in the league 10 times in Rodgers' 64 league games: the same number of times as in Houllier's 6 seasons, 2 less than in Evans' 5 seasons, and 5 less than in Rafa's 6 seasons. This guy has barely managed us for a season and a half!

I've never seen (not even the 87-91 team) Liverpool absolutely destroy the teams around us. We went from breaking records in a bad way to breaking records in a good way, almost in the blink of an eye. The likes of Wolves, Fulham, Spurs, West Brom etc etc... all came to Anfield from 2010 to 2012 and won for the first time in decades. Now? We've gotten our biggest Derby win since 1982. We've had our biggest win at Spurs in our history. We matched our record for goals scored against Arsenal in our history.

This kind of shit you don't just brush off. We're DESTROYING these teams. 5-0. 4-0. 5-1. And we're missing penalties, hitting posts, missing chances while we're doing it.  Who from our rivals are doing this? Which Liverpool teams from the last 20 odd years have done this?
You don't just call this shit luck, or talk about Paul Lambert. You fucking respect it.

I could go on for ages about what Rodgers' has done right: playing the kids (name me one manager we've had in recent history who would have put Suso on at half time for his league debut vs United? Or sent in Texeira for his debut with 8 minutes to go in a game we desperately needed to win?),  attacking substitutions ( putting on a second striker vs Stoke when 3-2 up- in complete contrast to what most of our recent bosses would have done), playing the media brightly and in a non confrontational manner…

And you know what… It’s maybe the last point that’s the issue for some as well as me. Because, while I absolutely adore Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool and almost everything he’s done so far, I still struggle to warm to Brendan Rodgers the man. I still call him Rodgers for example, like I called Gerard- Houllier- after a certain time. Why? Maybe it’s because it’s his love in with the media. Maybe it’s because of little things like calling Howard Webb “Howard” after THAT shambles on Sunday. Maybe it’s because I’m still not certain this bloke is one of us, like Kenny was, like Rafa was. Maybe it’s because, as Tony  Evans rightly says, we haven’t actually achieved anything yet.

But Brendan Rodgers the manager? Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool? They make me look at my telly (sorry locals; Out of Towner here) with amazement. They make me see things I haven’t seen for decades, dream things I haven’t dare to dream, feel things I haven’t felt for years.

They make this 33 year old man stay up till 4am in the morning with the adrenaline still racing after watching a master class of an attacking performance; watching replay after replay, full match after full match.

They make me feel like a 7 year old again. And that’s all that counts.

We could go on a bad run sure. But that won’t erase what we’ve done since January 2013. I think people have forgotten how bleak it was before that.  Finishing 7th, 6th and 8th. Losing 3-1 in a fortnight or so to Villa and Stoke. Looking like we had absolutely fuck all to play for. Couldn’t score a penalty, let alone a goal, if our lives depended on it.  Losing game after game against awful sides at Anfield.

From that to 4 points off the top with 12 games to go  and 66 goals scored in 26 games played. In barely 13 months. Rate Lambert all you want but for Christ’s sake, have some respect. Even rival fans (go to Red Café if you don’t believe me) sing Rodgers’ praises.

Leave your bitterness to one side and just enjoy this incredibly exciting team we have which is making us dream like we haven’t dreamed for eons.

[Hollywood Balls]

Nope. If Villa get 10th and we get 5th or below I think (objectively) Lambert's record probably looks better on paper.

Lambert won back-to-back promotions to reach the premiership - for me, that's one of the greatest achievements in football - probably more impressive than winning most doubles.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Nice post Brentie.

[BreakfastPercy]

The full quotes don't seem any better than the paraphrased ones really, he comes across as very bitter.

You talk of Rodgers fucking up our season by not signing Sturridge while Lambert gets credit for finishing on 41pts and just avoiding relegation while refusing to play their +£20m striker.

As for Lambert's record against Rodgers, is that how you judge whether a manager is tactically adept by judging him against one other manager or against the rest of the league? Rodgers has shown considerable improvement while Lambert has stagnated.

Eh?

BP, it isn't just this one interview that people are taking issue with. It is Evans' inability to say one good thing about Rodgers without a sting in the tail at the end of it. When he has been doing it for nigh-on close to two seasons, then you know it has become an agenda with Evans. 

The Sturridge deal requires context, something Evans and yourself are blatantly ignoring. During the entire summer of 2012, we spent looking at a goalscoring midfielder after having signed Borini to act as backup striker. In hindsight, It was sheer bad luck that Borini had such a blighted injury-ridden season after breaking his ankle playing for the Italian U-21s. We lost out on Gylfi to Spurs and then we made the decision to pursue Dempsey who had come off a fine season with Fulham. Sturridge, on the other hand, had just suffered from a bout of Bacterial Meningitis after the Olympics and the initial prognosis from the Chelsea camp was that it might be until November before he could be match-fit again. In what way would signing Sturridge (on a loan deal too, IIRC) in the summer of 2012 have helped us any better if it was going take till November before he could play a single minute for us? And not to forget that our fans probably have a dim view of signing injured strikers after the Carroll saga. Rodgers was planning for the here and now with the Dempsey deal, and miraculously, we managed to send Carroll on loan and then fuck up the Dempsey deal and ended up letting him go to Spurs as well. That summer was a blatant failure on FSG's part to back their new manager's plans for his team. That Sigurdsson and Dempsey failed at Spurs is irrelevant seeing that Rodgers is a far better coach than AVB is at getting the best out of his attacking players.

Also, keeping Villa up would be the least expected from Lambert. Villa's squad is no way near relegation material. At best, Lambert is treading water keeping them up in the same way Rodgers was treading water keeping us 7th.

And Evans' ridiculous claim that it was inheriting Suarez that is keeping Rodgers currently flying high in the table gets my goat each time. Suarez was a very talented, albeit extremely inefficient attacking player under Kenny. The stats and my own eyes support that. Rodgers made the decision to build our side around Luis and has transformed him into the same category of players as Ronaldo and Messi. Ignoring the impact of Rodgers' coaching into Suarez's monstrous improvement these past two seasons is typical of someone with an agenda. I don't see Evans claiming at any point that Guardiola inherited Messi and that he made bad transfer decisions. These things happen to every manager. Singling that out with Rodgers leaves an impression of a very bitter man.

Rodgers had to go through a rigorous interview process like other managers under consideration at the time during which he earned the right to become manager of LFC. We didn't have someone like Ferguson handing out free managerial jobs to his mates in the LMA. Was he lucky to be considered for the interview in the first place? Yes. But the luck card ends there.

Again, considering Lambert to be a better manager than Rodgers when Lambert has shown nothing of that sort thus far is pretty farcical arguing from Evans. Steve Bruce had a better head to head record against Rafa in the league for a time. It doesn't mean anything in the overall context. There are certain styles of play that managers tend to struggle with more than most and Lambert's physical, long-ball counter-attacking style seems to be a bit of an Achilles-heel for Rodgers. I'm sure this time next season we won't be having this conversation. The ceiling to our style of football is almost limitless if we can sign the right type of players this summer. But for Lambert's style of percentage football, there is always a limit beyond which he will struggle to get past unless he re-invents himself. Otherwise, as PoP said, Lambert will end up in the same pile of managers as Moyes and Allardyce.

Sturridge got Meningitis before the Olympics which he played in. He was fit for the Community shield- which he played in. He was part of Chelsea's match day squad at the start of the season, and played in several games. I'm not blatantly ignoring anything mate, including mistakes Rodgers has made in an otherwise brilliant job so far.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Couldn't care less about anything Tony Evans says about our manager, he hasn't liked Rodgers since day one.

Rodgers is proving all the doubters and naysayers wrong and making some of his harshest critics eat their words.  I couldn't be happier that he's our manager.

[Solomon Grundy]

Lambert won back-to-back promotions to reach the premiership - for me, that's one of the greatest achievements in football - probably more impressive than winning most doubles.

Would you put Nigel Adkins right up there as a top manager like Paul Lambert then?

[Funky_Gibbons]

Eh?

Bent.

[zabadoh]

Rodgers vs Rafa after 64 games, thanks to @MostarLFC

[007.lankyguy]

Rodgers vs Rafa after 64 games, thanks to @MostarLFC

Looking fairly even in the league (although Rafa had European competition so it's not quite an accurate representation).

Can tell the difference in approaches, even with the attacking players we currently have, that's an amazing amount of goals we've scored under Rodgers considering where we were when he took over.

[Redman0151]

Wow, i'd never have said in a million years we're tougher to beat under Rodgers than under Rafa.

Fair play.

[BreakfastPercy]

Bent.

But Lambert didn't sign him did he? And didn't Rodgers do exactly the same with Andy Carroll?

Anyway I'm not arguing Lambert is a top manager or better than Rodgers, just that you can read Evans' comments in more than one way. I don't hate Tony Evans, sue me.

[Chakan]

Looking fairly even in the league (although Rafa had European competition so it's not quite an accurate representation).

Can tell the difference in approaches, even with the attacking players we currently have, that's an amazing amount of goals we've scored under Rodgers considering where we were when he took over.

Also you have to think that Brendan has Suarez leading the line while Rafa had who?

Still interesting to see though.

[007.lankyguy]

Wow, i'd never have said in a million years we're tougher to beat under Rodgers than under Rafa.

Fair play.

People don't understand how poor our squad was in 04/05. We lost 14 games that league season.

Shows the massive step up we took in 05/06

Also you have to think that Brendan has Suarez leading the line while Rafa had who?

Still interesting to see though.

Haha true

[Funky_Gibbons]

But Lambert didn't sign him did he? And didn't Rodgers do exactly the same with Andy Carroll?

Anyway I'm not arguing Lambert is a top manager or better than Rodgers, just that you can read Evans' comments in more than one way. I don't hate Tony Evans, sue me.

Yes they're similar but Rodgers gets criticised for not signing Sturridge yet Lambert is praised for avoiding relegation while not being able to find a place for a proven Premier League goalscorer.

[afc tukrish]

People don't understand how poor our squad was in 04/05. We lost 14 games that league season.

Shows the massive step up we took in 05/06

It's also possible to make the argument that the Premier League as a competition was more difficult when Rafa was here than it has been thus far for Brendan. I look at that Mostar graphic and am left thinking that rather than one being better than the other, in broad terms there are very many statistical similarities. Over a similar period of matches, the two appear to have developed/be developing at a similar rate...

And yes, I am what might be termed a Rafa-phile or whatever, but Brentie's above post sums up what we all should feel about Brendan's work thus far. A plan, a system, a commitment to glorious attacking football that has produced brilliant dissections of the opposition on a number of occasions. And in relation to the topic of Tony Evans and Brendan, I admire BP's attempt to defend Evans but remain unconvinced. He may well be a top Red as Sian said, but can a top Red really be sticking the pin in sneakily to a manager who has the side moving so far forward as far system of play and style are concerned?

[JP!]

Tony Evans is a horrible, bitter man.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

 

[007.lankyguy]

It's also possible to make the argument that the Premier League as a competition was more difficult when Rafa was here than it has been thus far for Brendan. I look at that Mostar graphic and am left thinking that rather than one being better than the other, in broad terms there are very many statistical similarities. Over a similar period of matches, the two appear to have developed/be developing at a similar rate...

I think what it shows is that Rodgers is very much keeping up with what Rafa was doing here. Rodgers has done some excellent work and his project is starting to produce the kind of results that we want. So much so that next season will be about creating a base to start and consistently challenge for trophies. We're already ahead of what would be expected when he took over imo.

[EmotionalCitrus]

Just seen Tony 'top red' Evans latest bitter ramblings and no surprise he is still an utter bellend.

[Fowllah]

That is an unbelievable comment. That's the same Suarez who was in the team under Kenny when we finished 8th...

To be fair, in that season under Kenny, Suarez could hardly score a goal to save his life. People were even wondering if we needed a new striker such was Suarez's disappointing conversion rate.

[Funky_Gibbons]

It's also possible to make the argument that the Premier League as a competition was more difficult when Rafa was here than it has been thus far for Brendan.

Really? I would say the league is much more difficult now.

Chelsea have been joined by City as a cash rich club and Spurs were perennial under achievers back then. We were competing with Bolton, Everton and Middlesbrough for fourth.

[God's Left Peg]

Really? I would say the league is much more difficult now.

Chelsea have been joined by City as a cash rich club and Spurs were perennial under achievers back then. We were competing with Bolton, Everton and Middlesbrough for fourth.

I would definitely go along with this. Finishing top 4 was not as challenging then as it is now, IMHO.

By the way, Brentie, what a quality post.

Anyone any idea whether FSG are going to get Brendan's signature on a new contract at some point? He is class; if we aren't careful, we could lose him.

[mark82]

If Lambert had Suarez he would be playing off a big guy up front. The only tactical nous Lambert shows is altering his formations behind the big guy up top, the play is always the same though, hit him early and get people around him.

[007.lankyguy]

To be fair, in that season under Kenny, Suarez could hardly score a goal to save his life. People were even wondering if we needed a new striker such was Suarez's disappointing conversion rate.

I'm not criticising Kenny, I'm just pointing out that having Suarez isn't a guarantee of success.

[afc tukrish]

Really? I would say the league is much more difficult now.

Chelsea have been joined by City as a cash rich club and Spurs were perennial under achievers back then. We were competing with Bolton, Everton and Middlesbrough for fourth.

I don't disagree with that, but rather think the full 20-team league might be characterised as a more competitive entity, which means more chances for dropped points.

In other words, it might be harder to win the PL now because City has become filthy rich. By contrast, however, at least this season, United is shite by way of Moyesian balance...

And the "other teams" seemed to be playing at a general higher level, which meant more possibilities to drop points for Rafa compared to Brendan. Not so much a question of winning the league as the entity in its entirety being more competitive during past years whereas more talent seems to be concentrated in the top teams now, meaning that the teams in the lower reaches of the PL now are less competitive on a broad basis than they were when Rafa was running things.

I am open to accusations of confirmation bias or whatever, I have no more basis for my opinion than a general feeling...

And again, just to make certain that my RAWK credentials remain in good standing...

Brendan Rodgers fucking rules...

[Kopenhagen]

To be fair, in that season under Kenny, Suarez could hardly score a goal to save his life. People were even wondering if we needed a new striker such was Suarez's disappointing conversion rate.

Rodgers got that goal scoring form out of Suarez; it didn't just happen.

Kenny & a Rodgers used different methods on the training pitch. Rodgers adapted training to suit Suarez, mimicking actual in-game scenarios, similar to what Luis was familiar with in Holland. I don't claim to know all the subtleties, but I remember reading a PoP post on here which elucidated the difference.

[NaivetyinBlack]

Superb post Brentie. Echoes what a lot of us have been feeling about this team. 

[BreakfastPercy]

Yes they're similar but Rodgers gets criticised for not signing Sturridge yet Lambert is praised for avoiding relegation while not being able to find a place for a proven Premier League goalscorer.

Not really true. Bent featured in 23 games in all competitions (8 league starts) but missed nearly half the season with injuries. 3 separate injuries, which I imagine didn't help him get into any kind of form. And given Benteke was in such good form and they, like most teams, play one up top, it's not surprising Bent didn't play loads. He still played his part though and was hardly rotting in the reserves, or on loan at West Ham!

I think the world of Rodgers, but had he been the finished article we probably wouldn't have gotten him!

[Funky_Gibbons]

I don't disagree with that, but rather think the full 20-team league might be characterised as a more competitive entity, which means more chances for dropped points.

In other words, it might be harder to win the PL now because City has become filthy rich. By contrast, however, at least this season, United is shite by way of Moyesian balance...

And the "other teams" seemed to be playing at a general higher level, which meant more possibilities to drop points for Rafa compared to Brendan. Not so much a question of winning the league as the entity in its entirety being more competitive during past years whereas more talent seems to be concentrated in the top teams now, meaning that the teams in the lower reaches of the PL now are less competitive on a broad basis than they were when Rafa was running things.

I am open to accusations of confirmation bias or whatever, I have no more basis for my opinion than a general feeling...

And again, just to make certain that my RAWK credentials remain in good standing...

Brendan Rodgers fucking rules...

I'm the same but my 'general feeling' is that the league is tougher now. I think back in 2005 United, Arsenal and Chelsea were guaranteed to finish in the top four with us only competing with Everton for the last position. This season you had City, Chelsea and United expected to make the top four with us, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton competing for that final place so it is a lot more competitive now.

In 2005 WBA stayed up with 34 points so it doesn't make me think the overall league was stronger, quite the opposite really.

[Pistolero]

The thing is, it's not just about winning.

It's how we're winning.

I'm 33. I've been supporting Liverpool since I was 5. I fell for the Reds properly when Barnes was signed. The first team I truly saw was Kenny's 87-91 vintage.

So basically, you can say I got my footballing education from that side. The triangles, the short passing, Beardsley dropping off the striker, Barnes' magnificent wing play, the late runs into the box from midfield by Mcmahon and Houghton, the comeback wins, the never say die attitude.

That was the Liverpool I fell in love with. The style of play that got me hooked. Since then, every Liverpool side I've watched has always been compared to that team for me. Look at my first few posts on this forum 9 years ago or so and you'll see me moaning (as ever) of our transfer market failings. You'll see me begging for a Pablo Aimar (i.e. a Beardsley type). For flair. For more creativity.

For close to 15 years (since 97 basically. Just after my desire for a defensive midfielder was sated by Paul Ince...), I've been begging Liverpool bosses to buy that sort of player. The type that can unlock tight defenses. That can thread a through ball through an eye of a needle. That can terrify defenders with pace and guile, creativity and flair. And year after year, I had to see the likes of Overmars,  Pires, Ronaldo and Modric being snapped up by other teams while we signed the likes of  Leonhardsen, Barmby, Kuyt and Jovanovic: hard workers, first and foremost. Flair and trickery sacrificed for keeping the shape and defensive solidity.

Why? Because since Evans decided he needed more workers in the side after the debacle of Spring 1997, every manager we've had has valued workers over flair players.

Houllier brought success but he also brought some of the most mind numbingly boring football I've ever seen. He had the closest thing to Peter Beardsley in modern football (Number 37) and used him like he was John Fashanu.

Rafa brought success, amazing nights and for a few months some wonderful attacking play, but he also brought a sometimes spirit crushing refusal to take risks, to go for broke, to sacrifice the system for more creativity. He spent fortunes on every position except attacking midfield. He was all about compactness, the shape, control.

Hodgson was Hodgson and Kenny was hamstrung from the very start with a 35m pounds absolute fuck up of a signing who was so limited he required us to go spend more fortunes on limited players to bring the best out of his limited skill set. We all, for a couple of lovely months in Spring 2011 saw a version of a modern Liverpool which mirrored the 87-91 vintage. But then, it was gone with the need to limit our attacking play with our limited record signing.

In Brendan Rodgers, we have a man who puts flair before anything else. We have a man who's first thought is attack. Whose every thought is about scoring goals. It's about winning football matches. Who will not hesitate to go for broke if we're drawing, who wants us to play exactly like the 87-91 vintage did. And, Jesus Christ, he's very close to making it happen.

Philippe Coutinho is exactly the type of player that I've been begging us to sign since Mcmanaman left in 1999. He's the Peter Beardsley we've been crying out for years. He's a player who is full of flair, creativity, vision and skill. And Rodgers adores him, absolutely swears by him. Raheem Sterling is the closest thing (but still miles away) from a John Barnes for 2 decades. Full of flair, pace, trickery and fight. And he's 19. Rodgers adores, has played him since he was 17, has never wavered in his support for him.

We have the best player I've ever seen in a Liverpool shirt in my life in Luis Suarez. A man for which the word flair is not enough. And we have Daniel Sturridge, a man who is scoring goals faster than ANY Liverpool striker in modern Liverpool history.

This isn't about Rodgers getting lucky. This isn't about Lambert being better. This shit did not just happen. It was Rodgers who had the balls to play Sterling (even at 17 years of age). It was Rodgers who went out and bought Coutinho when most of our previous managers would have had not touched him with a barge pole. It is Rodgers who is getting Sturridge to look like the English Thierry Henry. And it is Rodgers that is getting Luis Suarez to break goalscoring record after goal scoring record.

For those who know me, you'll know how adamant I was from the start that the Carroll - Suarez partnership was doomed to fail. I was going nuts at how we were wasting Suarez's talent, using him like Jermaine Defoe, when he was so much better than that.  I argued endlessly on here that we needed to surround him with movement, with pace and with intelligent footballers. Well Rodgers came in, sent Carroll packing , backed himself, backed Luis and now look. We have 2 strikers that have more than 1 goals a start this season in the league. THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE. BY ANYONE.

It's because of all of this that I look at Rodgers and give him my full support. People can't just brush off what's been happening this season (and indeed since last Jan) as luck or anything else. It's genius. We've beaten teams by 4 goals or more 5 times this season. Do you know how many times Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and United have done that combined? ZERO. Not once. Everton? 1 time. City? 4 times- and they have had 5 years or so to Billion pounds up their squad.

You know what…  Fuck our rivals. Compare us to our previous manager. We’ve beaten teams by 4 goals or more in the league 10 times in Rodgers' 64 league games: the same number of times as in Houllier's 6 seasons, 2 less than in Evans' 5 seasons, and 5 less than in Rafa's 6 seasons. This guy has barely managed us for a season and a half!

I've never seen (not even the 87-91 team) Liverpool absolutely destroy the teams around us. We went from breaking records in a bad way to breaking records in a good way, almost in the blink of an eye. The likes of Wolves, Fulham, Spurs, West Brom etc etc... all came to Anfield from 2010 to 2012 and won for the first time in decades. Now? We've gotten our biggest Derby win since 1982. We've had our biggest win at Spurs in our history. We matched our record for goals scored against Arsenal in our history.

This kind of shit you don't just brush off. We're DESTROYING these teams. 5-0. 4-0. 5-1. And we're missing penalties, hitting posts, missing chances while we're doing it.  Who from our rivals are doing this? Which Liverpool teams from the last 20 odd years have done this?
You don't just call this shit luck, or talk about Paul Lambert. You fucking respect it.

I could go on for ages about what Rodgers' has done right: playing the kids (name me one manager we've had in recent history who would have put Suso on at half time for his league debut vs United? Or sent in Texeira for his debut with 8 minutes to go in a game we desperately needed to win?),  attacking substitutions ( putting on a second striker vs Stoke when 3-2 up- in complete contrast to what most of our recent bosses would have done), playing the media brightly and in a non confrontational manner…

And you know what… It’s maybe the last point that’s the issue for some as well as me. Because, while I absolutely adore Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool and almost everything he’s done so far, I still struggle to warm to Brendan Rodgers the man. I still call him Rodgers for example, like I called Gerard- Houllier- after a certain time. Why? Maybe it’s because it’s his love in with the media. Maybe it’s because of little things like calling Howard Webb “Howard” after THAT shambles on Sunday. Maybe it’s because I’m still not certain this bloke is one of us, like Kenny was, like Rafa was. Maybe it’s because, as Tony  Evans rightly says, we haven’t actually achieved anything yet.

But Brendan Rodgers the manager? Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool? They make me look at my telly (sorry locals; Out of Towner here) with amazement. They make me see things I haven’t seen for decades, dream things I haven’t dare to dream, feel things I haven’t felt for years.

They make this 33 year old man stay up till 4am in the morning with the adrenaline still racing after watching a master class of an attacking performance; watching replay after replay, full match after full match.

They make me feel like a 7 year old again. And that’s all that counts.

We could go on a bad run sure. But that won’t erase what we’ve done since January 2013. I think people have forgotten how bleak it was before that.  Finishing 7th, 6th and 8th. Losing 3-1 in a fortnight or so to Villa and Stoke. Looking like we had absolutely fuck all to play for. Couldn’t score a penalty, let alone a goal, if our lives depended on it.  Losing game after game against awful sides at Anfield.

From that to 4 points off the top with 12 games to go  and 66 goals scored in 26 games played. In barely 13 months. Rate Lambert all you want but for Christ’s sake, have some respect. Even rival fans (go to Red Café if you don’t believe me) sing Rodgers’ praises.

Leave your bitterness to one side and just enjoy this incredibly exciting team we have which is making us dream like we haven’t dreamed for eons.

cracking read that Brentie...cheers