Author Topic: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')  (Read 69703 times)

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1120 on: April 24, 2017, 02:50:22 am »
Can someone with access to a time machine let me know if I should just start paying attention again in August or if I can keep watching. Have a dodgy heart, could do with a heads up.
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Offline thisyearisouryear

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1121 on: April 24, 2017, 02:50:38 am »
29 of our 42 conceded goals have been against the bottom 8 teams. What the fuck is wrong is with us! That is almost 70% of our goals. Like seriously, how can we be so good against the top teams and so shitty against the bottom ones! Not being able to break down park-the-bus teams is one thing. We seem to collectively lose our defensive shit against them too. I mean who the fuck does that! UGH!!
CL is still not out of our reach but it is definitely out of our hands now!

#rantover

Offline thisyearisouryear

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1122 on: April 24, 2017, 02:52:59 am »
Can someone with access to a time machine let me know if I should just start paying attention again in August or if I can keep watching. Have a dodgy heart, could do with a heads up.
I know mate. I am tired of being heartbroken! When was the last time we weren't disappointed at the season end :(

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1123 on: April 24, 2017, 02:54:58 am »
It's either that or I'll end up calling them every name under the sun every time Lovren gets shrugged off the ball or Milner slows the game to a crawl by controlling the ball down the left side like he's handling a proximity mine followed by an overhit through ball.

You make it sound like they are a bunch a buffoons :)



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Offline Day1983

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1124 on: April 24, 2017, 02:55:59 am »
IMO they did not expect this season to be a breakout season.  Did not expect Klopp to do so well.
Therefore the smaller squad
.
But many has been predicting injuries due to our pressing game.
Here we are having a baby bench at the end of season.

I'm sure I get what you mean here? Are you saying FSG thought we would be further down the table so no need to invest too much? If so that doesn't make sense.

Offline Day1983

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1125 on: April 24, 2017, 02:58:49 am »
29 of our 42 conceded goals have been against the bottom 8 teams. What the fuck is wrong is with us! That is almost 70% of our goals. Like seriously, how can we be so good against the top teams and so shitty against the bottom ones! Not being able to break down park-the-bus teams is one thing. We seem to collectively lose our defensive shit against them too. I mean who the fuck does that! UGH!!
CL is still not out of our reach but it is definitely out of our hands now!

#rantover

Maybe it's because these teams are more likely to play route one footy and we struggle with that?

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1126 on: April 24, 2017, 02:58:52 am »
29 of our 42 conceded goals have been against the bottom 8 teams. What the fuck is wrong is with us! That is almost 70% of our goals. Like seriously, how can we be so good against the top teams and so shitty against the bottom ones! Not being able to break down park-the-bus teams is one thing. We seem to collectively lose our defensive shit against them too. I mean who the fuck does that! UGH!!
CL is still not out of our reach but it is definitely out of our hands now!

#rantover

Different kind of football

How many of them are counter goals or transition turnover?

How many are off restarts (including pens, free kicks, corners, and throw ins)?

How many occur during the run of play?

The answer to these three questions usually provides a good answer to why the bottom half score 70% of our goals conceded.

Thanks btw, good work on that so fast
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Offline stockdam

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1127 on: April 24, 2017, 02:59:14 am »
Watched the game in Carraghers pub in New York. It's a great place to watch a game...pity we were so poor today.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 03:04:08 am by stockdam »
#JFT97

Offline daggerdoo

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Re: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 1 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1128 on: April 24, 2017, 03:02:25 am »
93' - We press hard and the ball comes flying over - Grujic heads wide. GK

Thanks for that.

Offline jckliew

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1129 on: April 24, 2017, 03:03:48 am »
I'm sure I get what you mean here? Are you saying FSG thought we would be further down the table so no need to invest too much? If so that doesn't make sense.
Yeah...no European games, no bigger squad required. My point was we were not expected to be challenging after 10 games. They were probably expecting Europa at best after last season.
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Offline Day1983

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1130 on: April 24, 2017, 03:07:12 am »
Yeah...no European games, no bigger squad required. My point was we were not expected to be challenging after 10 games. They were probably expecting Europa at best after last season.

I hope that wasn't what they were thinking as I don't believe that mentality gets you anywhere.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1131 on: April 24, 2017, 03:08:05 am »
Yeah...no European games, no bigger squad required. My point was we were not expected to be challenging after 10 games. They were probably expecting Europa at best after last season.

Not a chance after Leicester showed not having European Football has its advantages (as did Rodgers during 2013)
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Offline jckliew

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1132 on: April 24, 2017, 03:10:50 am »
Not a chance after Leicester showed not having European Football has its advantages (as did Rodgers during 2013)
Then what is the reason for the thin squad?
Look at our bench. Made up of school boys.
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Offline idontknow

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1133 on: April 24, 2017, 03:13:18 am »
A bad, bad, bad, bad game.
I'm off to bed with Billie Holiday.
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Offline liverpool_nZ

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1134 on: April 24, 2017, 03:16:17 am »
IMO they did not expect this season to be a breakout season.  Did not expect Klopp to do so well.
Therefore the smaller squad.
But many has been predicting injuries due to our pressing game.
Here we are having a baby bench at the end of season.

I think we are dreaming if we think we can cope with Europe & the 2 cups & the league next season. The squad was flogged into the ground by Christmas and that was without any Europe.

We're going to need at least 3 squads next season if we have any hope of challenging for title or 4th place.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1135 on: April 24, 2017, 03:16:20 am »
Then what is the reason for the thin squad?
Look at our bench. Made up of school boys.

Good question!

I don't know the answer.

I suspect that Klopp wanted to impose ideas, sold the owners on how important a youth system is (maybe moving away from Melwood to a unified training facility could have been a part of it) and really believed too many young players were going out on loan, not enough learning the issues he wanted to teach.

They reach a deal, as he tries to save them money, and they have his back when it comes to injuries and length of contract.

I have no way of knowing, but coaching ego, playing egos and ownership egos are at stake when we ask this question.
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Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1136 on: April 24, 2017, 03:19:02 am »
I think we are dreaming if we think we can cope with Europe & the 2 cups & the league next season. The squad was flogged into the ground by Christmas and that was without any Europe.

We're going to need at least 3 squads next season if we have any hope of challenging for title or 4th place.

If our performance against the top teams in the Prem is any indicator, I respectfully disagree.  For us, it is all about qualification.

Once we are there, the entire nature of what is possible changes. 

Let's be frank, we were not really ever going to be competitive in the Champions League under Rodgers (we did not do our work).
But the next time around, watch out.  I think we might over recruit.
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Offline Endoe

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1137 on: April 24, 2017, 03:57:41 am »
29 of our 42 conceded goals have been against the bottom 8 teams. What the fuck is wrong is with us! That is almost 70% of our goals. Like seriously, how can we be so good against the top teams and so shitty against the bottom ones! Not being able to break down park-the-bus teams is one thing. We seem to collectively lose our defensive shit against them too. I mean who the fuck does that! UGH!!
CL is still not out of our reach but it is definitely out of our hands now!

#rantover
I think it's due to those sides sitting deep, playing us on the counter exposing a lack of speed in our squad, you take out Mane and the majority of the squad is one paced.Also this game Lovren was exposed for the average defender he really is, a new pacey CB whose aerial dominant would be my main priority this widow to partner Matip.

Offline daggerdoo

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1138 on: April 24, 2017, 04:11:03 am »
I think it's due to those sides sitting deep, playing us on the counter exposing a lack of speed in our squad, you take out Mane and the majority of the squad is one paced.Also this game Lovren was exposed for the average defender he really is, a new pacey CB whose aerial dominant would be my main priority this widow to partner Matip.
I don't think the two players you mention determine why we are so crap against some teams.

Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1139 on: April 24, 2017, 04:11:36 am »
Benteke can fuck off as can everyone on here who have already thrown in the towel for a Champions League spot. Fucking fannies.
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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1140 on: April 24, 2017, 04:21:01 am »

Even if we have a bigger squad we will struggle ..

The rich teams have a good bench and can afford to pay big wages for them yet will struggle when for example 3 of their starting players get injured.. For us its more difficult because the quality gap between the backups and the starters is bigger..

So the issue we need to fix first is our backups playing too much .. Our target should be having a a quality starting 11 with same injury record as Firmino, Gingi and Mane or we will be inconsistent  like we are now .. The club need to be ruthless in the summer ..

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1141 on: April 24, 2017, 04:28:42 am »
After about 10 minutes of the game today I said to myself 'Lovren isn't looking right today, Lovren isn't looking right today.' I could sense he was about to get caught out because he has enormous trouble with pacy players and when balls are played through quickly. I've said it so many times, he isn't, hasn't and won't be good enough. Sure, if we want to be stuck in 5th-8th he's a decent player. But not for a top 4 team.

We better fucking wake up real quick because we don't want to playing Europa League football on Thursdays. After how the season started and how much promise we showed to throw it all away now and not even get a top 4 spot after basically sitting in one for the entire season would be a gigantic disappointment and have many repercussions in terms of attracting top players. Even the thought of this is really fucking grim.

You can argue the players aren't good enough, bench wasn't good enough, injuries have destroyed us. They're all true to some extent. But today we got the lead and all we had to do was defend and do our job. We were at home. It's bitterly disappointing. We simply cannot defend. I honestly can't remember the last side that looked like conceding from every corner against and don't remotely look like scoring from our own corners. I cringe every time we get a corner ourselves because you just know what's coming.

The most disappointing thing today was Palace didn't even have to play well to beat us.

YWNA

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1142 on: April 24, 2017, 04:57:19 am »
If our performance against the top teams in the Prem is any indicator, I respectfully disagree.  For us, it is all about qualification.

Once we are there, the entire nature of what is possible changes. 

Let's be frank, we were not really ever going to be competitive in the Champions League under Rodgers (we did not do our work).
But the next time around, watch out.  I think we might over recruit.

I think you misunderstood what I meant be "cope". I meant injuries & fitness wise, we have the highest average of metres covered on the pitch by some distance in the EPL add European fixtures to what we have this season and we'll be the walking dead by Christmas again.

We need a huge squad to cope with Klopps demands & playing style.

Offline alvaro

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1143 on: April 24, 2017, 05:25:35 am »
Number of games with less than 2 goals  scored against bottom 13 teams.

United 8
Arsenal 7
Liverpool 6
City 3

City seem better than everybody else here but Liverpool are slightly better than their top 4 opponents. Its all about the defence. Dont let this one game fool you. Our attack against the bottom 13 is not elite but its top 4 material.



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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1144 on: April 24, 2017, 05:34:33 am »
Here is another stat. Points dropped when scoring more than 2 goals against the bottom 13.

Liverpool 10
City 3
Arsenal 2
United 0

On the other hand we have managed to let the bottom 13 teams to 1 goal or less in 12 games. In those 12 games we have 11 wins and 1 draw.

Next season we need to invest big money on our defence.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 05:39:39 am by alvaro »

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1145 on: April 24, 2017, 06:14:09 am »
IMO they did not expect this season to be a breakout season.  Did not expect Klopp to do so well.
Therefore the smaller squad.
But many has been predicting injuries due to our pressing game.
Here we are having a baby bench at the end of season.

Disagree. They expected Klopp to do well and he has done. However because he's Klopp and worked miracles at dortmund with little transfer expenditure and helps younger kids they thought they could get away with it. They were wrong.

Offline slimbo

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1146 on: April 24, 2017, 06:15:04 am »
After about 10 minutes of the game today I said to myself 'Lovren isn't looking right today, Lovren isn't looking right today.'

Could also say that about Milner, Can and Lucas. Started very slow with wayward passes. It's something we've done a number of times against so called weaker sides. A mixture of fatigue and mental weakness imo.Whi is our team psych

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1147 on: April 24, 2017, 06:15:32 am »
IMO they did not expect this season to be a breakout season.  Did not expect Klopp to do so well.
Therefore the smaller squad.
But many has been predicting injuries due to our pressing game.
Here we are having a baby bench at the end of season.

It was Klopp who said he wanted a smaller squad and was quite happy with it at the start of the season.
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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1148 on: April 24, 2017, 06:24:24 am »
The thing about the corner thing is we don't have the belief we will defend it right. This is something bigger than working on it during training, or zonal marking it's a confidence thing and we don't have any confidence we will defend these fucking corners and the opposition has a massive belief they can get something from a corner.

The only way to overcome this is to go on a run not conceding via a corner, especially against lower teams as that's there main source of hope. Individuals won't make a difference and Klopp won't change his methods defending them.

Offline Il Conte

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1149 on: April 24, 2017, 07:02:30 am »
The most disappointing thing today was Palace didn't even have to play well to beat us.

Our most annoying story of the season, heads go for no apparent reason time and time again and we make these silly mistakes. Like you said it was obvious with Lovren from the first couple of minutes yesterday.

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1150 on: April 24, 2017, 07:18:46 am »
The thing about the corner thing is we don't have the belief we will defend it right. This is something bigger than working on it during training, or zonal marking it's a confidence thing and we don't have any confidence we will defend these fucking corners and the opposition has a massive belief they can get something from a corner.

The only way to overcome this is to go on a run not conceding via a corner, especially against lower teams as that's there main source of hope. Individuals won't make a difference and Klopp won't change his methods defending them.

Against West Brom, Klopp talked about how the team mantra was "Don't concede set pieces. Don't concede set pieces. Don't concede set pieces." And we kept a clean sheet. Perhaps they need to repeat the mantra every week?

Allardyce said in his presser that they'd analysed our set piece defence and noted that we are OK on the initial entry but poor on second- and third-balls. So they were looking for near-post flick-ons and that sort of thing. It's something that has driven me nuts all season, how unresponsive our team is to that first touch - look at the goal Pennington scored against us, it's like it never occurred to anyone that the ball could end up six yards out directly in front, and half the Everton team could have strolled in and smashed it home. I'm not sure what the answer is. Could it be that too many players are thinking about the counter-attack and not concentrating on getting the fucker out of there?

Regarding the small squad - either we just don't have durable enough players, or Klopp underestimated the effect of the Xmas period vs. the German winter break. You'd think it's the former, because Klopp was here last Xmas and is no fool. If we had a few more like Firmino, Gini, Clyne and Milner who can be counted on to play 2500+ minutes a season, we'd be better off. Unfortunately we've had two places on the senior list go to waste in Sturridge and Ings, our captain and key midfielder seems to have a chronic injury that makes him an ongoing question mark, our most potent scorer had extracurricular activities to attend to and then picked up an unfortunate break, and we have a plethora of players who are forever picking up niggles that keep them out for a few weeks here and there (Matip, Lallana, Lovren, Klavan, Lucas and to a lesser extent Origi, Can and Coutinho... and Sakho prior to his exile), making it hard to build any sort of continuity or consistency. That's why I've been banging on like a broken record about targeting durable players in the next window. For far too long we have bought injury-prone or injured players (Carroll, Benteke, Aquilani being the most egregiously wasteful examples) and hoped that they can somehow stay fit under the additional workload that comes with a team like Liverpool. Enough of that - the ability to cope with the rigours of premier league football must henceforth be a non-negotiable, not a nice-to-have.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:21:07 am by GreatEx »

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1151 on: April 24, 2017, 07:20:55 am »
I know mate. I am tired of being heartbroken! When was the last time we weren't disappointed at the season end :(

We're not at the season's end yet there's another month to go. Still plenty of opportunity for things to change. Our rivals are still to play one another, so everything can change once more. We will be getting back Adam Lallana next game, which should help our creativity. So let's just wait and see before we get all morose and depressed. Yesterday was a setback but its how we come out of it which will determine what happens next. Both players and fans, we just need to fight until the bitter end. 
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Offline liverpool_nZ

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1152 on: April 24, 2017, 07:22:34 am »
Can we talk about the most obvious problem here.

Klopp has not LEARNED from his mistakes. He has no LEARNED that zonal marking does NOT work.

He did not LEARN after Benteke scored the first goal from a free header.

He did NOT make changes at half time and tell Matip or Can to man mark Benteke on set pieces, which obviously would have made Bentekes job a lot harder.

Why does he not have the ability to acknowledge and address obvious defensive issues like this? It's basic football. It's basic that you acknowledge they have a huge threat in Benteke on set-pieces and there could be a mismatch if he attacks space or a zonal areas with a smaller defender.

This really is basic football & Klopp just ignores it, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Shame on you Klopp for not LEARNING. SORT IT OUT.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:24:20 am by liverpool_nZ »

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1153 on: April 24, 2017, 07:25:48 am »
Bloody hell, Rafa's been gone for seven years and people are still going on about zonal marking!

Of course zonal can and does work. I very much doubt we will become proficient at defending set pieces if we switched to man-to-man tomorrow.

Offline Petadroli

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1154 on: April 24, 2017, 07:26:36 am »
Does anybody know why Sturridge wasn't even on the bench? Watching Origi play yesterday was tough viewing... So many situations where he just didn't do those runs behind the defence to free up space.

Also, the big chance in the box Coutinho had: how on earth is that no penalty? He obviously gets fouled, but stays on his feet to finish. It should be a penalty as soon as the ball doesn't go in. Then you hear pundits again shafting players because they fall to easily. There you have why, if you get fouled and don't fall down, you won't get the decision.
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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1155 on: April 24, 2017, 07:31:16 am »
Our front line did not do much in open play at all. Says a lot about our 2nd stringers.

We have our half our front four missing its hardly a surprise. Once we get Lallana back it will certainly help the supply line to Firmino and Coutinho. Lallana is a crucial part of the way we function up front. The people coming in are not of the same standard, so we need to improve that, in the summer. But we are still in contention, there is still a lot of football to be played. Our rivals still need to play one another, so its no time to be throwing the towel in.
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Offline Number 7

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1156 on: April 24, 2017, 07:31:55 am »
Does anybody know why Sturridge wasn't even on the bench? Watching Origi play yesterday was tough viewing... So many situations where he just didn't do those runs behind the defence to free up space.

Also, the big chance in the box Coutinho had: how on earth is that no penalty? He obviously gets fouled, but stays on his feet to finish. It should be a penalty as soon as the ball doesn't go in. Then you hear pundits again shafting players because they fall to easily. There you have why, if you get fouled and don't fall down, you won't get the decision.

Sturridge was injured mate. He's been a non-factor for years let alone months so no sleep lost over that one.

On the Coutinho foul, if he goes down it's a penalty. The fact that he stayed on his feet thinking he would score has made the referee not give it. Even Klopp hinted later that he should have gone down. The most annoying one for me was Milner's run with just enough time to be caught and not get the shot away.
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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1157 on: April 24, 2017, 07:32:23 am »
Does anybody know why Sturridge wasn't even on the bench? Watching Origi play yesterday was tough viewing... So many situations where he just didn't do those runs behind the defence to free up space.

Also, the big chance in the box Coutinho had: how on earth is that no penalty? He obviously gets fouled, but stays on his feet to finish. It should be a penalty as soon as the ball doesn't go in. Then you hear pundits again shafting players because they fall to easily. There you have why, if you get fouled and don't fall down, you won't get the decision.

He was "injured" the manager didn't look too impressed when asked about him afterwards, is all I will say.
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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1158 on: April 24, 2017, 07:34:09 am »
If our performance against the top teams in the Prem is any indicator, I respectfully disagree.  For us, it is all about qualification.

Once we are there, the entire nature of what is possible changes. 

Let's be frank, we were not really ever going to be competitive in the Champions League under Rodgers (we did not do our work).
But the next time around, watch out.  I think we might over recruit.
I bet we don't over recruit. And I doubt will end up top of the mini 6 league next season as United, Chelsea and City will easily spend 100 of millions. We'll probably spend 20 mill, if we're lucky.

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Re: FT: Liverpool 1 vs Palace 2 (Phil 23' Benteke 42' 73')
« Reply #1159 on: April 24, 2017, 07:35:08 am »
Bloody hell, Rafa's been gone for seven years and people are still going on about zonal marking!

Of course zonal can and does work. I very much doubt we will become proficient at defending set pieces if we switched to man-to-man tomorrow.

Zonal marking does NOT work vs players like Benteke & teams like Big Sams. Sam purposely targeted our zonal marking system, because we can't do it.

Players like Benteke need to be picked up.