Topic: North Korea

[oldfordie]

Absolutely, unless he's literally mad he must know that any material threat beyond saber rattling would result in his and most of his countries total annihilation.

I really don't see why anything has to be done. , containment is working fine for everyone bar his own people.

Ultimately that's where the pressure of this regime is going to fail, it can't sustain itself indefinitely whilst its people know such hardship.

if he attacked the US, Japan or S.Korea then not even the Chinese Russians would stand in the way of the retribution they would have deservedly brought upon themselves.

I would normally agree with you and that's so easy to do but we know his intentions, he's trying to develop long distance ballistic missiles, the USA must obviously feel it's only a matter of time before he has this capability, better to deal with the problem now rather than wait till he has them by the b....

[killer-heels]

Big difference between Syria and NK though.  Whatever leverage China might have against Trump's business interests, they don't seem interested or keen in trying to apply it right now. 

Also, Trump informed Russia about the missile strikes to avoid Russian casualties because they had boots on the ground in a foreign country.  That's different from striking NK which currently has no presence in the South.  I find it hard to think of a situation where South Korea and Japan say "no" to the US attacking NK and Trump actually listening.

The only way you can see a strike on NK without South Korean or Japanese authority is if the USA is in danger of being struck by the North Koreans. Thats effectively the stage the North Koreans want to get to and the Americans want to prevent. If North Korea develops their missle which can contain a warhead then that is a instance where the Yanks could strike first.

Also I read that there are something like 20k American soldiers and personnel in South Korea who would all be in direct firing line of an attack. A pre-emptive attack when there is no immediate threat to the States and something that led to the potential deaths of hunderds of Americans wouldnt reflect too well. I know its been done before (Iraq) but its common knowledge that the North Korea as yet couldnt devstate the States.

[Red Beret]

Everything you say makes sense, KH.  But, well, it's Trump... backed by hawks...

My main concern is Trump's short term thinking and lack of a coherent policy on just about everything.  We all know what common sense diplomacy dictates; but Trump doesn't play by those rules.  It will take a sustained effort from his closest confidants to keep him reined in on this matter.  I can't escape the feeling that he's just spoiling for a fight and it doesn't really enter into his mind whether or not NK has the ability to do this or that - he just sees them as upstart bad guys who threaten the US and he wants to put them in their place.

[fudge]

I would normally agree with you and that's so easy to do but we know his intentions, he's trying to develop long distance ballistic missiles, the USA must obviously feel it's only a matter of time before he has this capability, better to deal with the problem now rather than wait till he has them by the b....

I'm sure you're right but that then opens the far more important point of the illegal nature of doing so. Just because they don't like The regime doesn't give them carte Blanche to bomb the shut out of them

[killer-heels]

Everything you say makes sense, KH.  But, well, it's Trump... backed by hawks...

My main concern is Trump's short term thinking and lack of a coherent policy on just about everything.  We all know what common sense diplomacy dictates; but Trump doesn't play by those rules.  It will take a sustained effort from his closest confidants to keep him reined in on this matter.  I can't escape the feeling that he's just spoiling for a fight and it doesn't really enter into his mind whether or not NK has the ability to do this or that - he just sees them as upstart bad guys who threaten the US and he wants to put them in their place.

I agree that if its suggested to him to attack then he doesnt have the brains or rationale to weigh it up himself and make calculated decisions and nor would he care about the fall out. Fortunately at the moment he does seem to have sense in the area of intelligence and defence. Lets hope it stays that way.

[thelinnen]

I'm sure you're right but that then opens the far more important point of the illegal nature of doing so. Just because they don't like The regime doesn't give them carte Blanche to bomb the shut out of them

Except we're talking about a hypothetical zero-sum game where one party doesn't care what happens.

[oldfordie]

I'm sure you're right but that then opens the far more important point of the illegal nature of doing so. Just because they don't like The regime doesn't give them carte Blanche to bomb the shut out of them

I dont think the USA or Russia worry about a little thing like having the right to attack another nation bother them. the fact they deem them a serious threat is enough.

[killer-heels]

I'm sure you're right but that then opens the far more important point of the illegal nature of doing so. Just because they don't like The regime doesn't give them carte Blanche to bomb the shut out of them

Toppling a regime (even without Military action) just because we dont like them is wrong. I think its quite clear now though that this is a problem that cannot be avoided. Its been avoided by the Chinese and Americans for far too long.

[Cliff Bastin]

If any nuclear capability NK has could be taken out, I would have no issue in a conflict to remove that regime with international support.

[whiteboots]

Make no mistake, this situation has the potential to have catastrophic consequences.

We simply do not know the extent to which China has influence over North Korea. Tension between China and Japan is increasing. The US sees Japan as being pivotal to its influence in the Pacific.

South Korea, Japan and China have much to lose economically by armed conflict. North Korea has nothing to lose. Totalitarian dictators are not marked out for their logic, see Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

A strike against US forces is a possibility, and one which the US could easily deal with and respond to. A land battle within the Korean peninsular would be much more difficult to respond to.

[Bunter]

When have the N. Koreans given indications that they intend to bomb the US or go to war? The threats they send out are usually in seld-defence and rejection of the Americans demands or bully boy tactics to do as they say. As much of a fuckhead and figure of fun Kim-Jong is are the people surrounding him that reckless or stupid to go down a suicidal path like that and anatagonise the world? I refuse to believe they are all brainwashed looney caricatures.

[cloggypop]

Ian McCulloch legged it from Japan

http://en.rocketnews24.com/2017/04/16/musician-ian-mcculloch-flees-japan-amid-us-north-korea-tensions-show-cancelled-without-warning/

[AndyInVA]

Everything you say makes sense, KH.  But, well, it's Trump... backed by hawks...

My main concern is Trump's short term thinking and lack of a coherent policy on just about everything.  We all know what common sense diplomacy dictates; but Trump doesn't play by those rules.  It will take a sustained effort from his closest confidants to keep him reined in on this matter.  I can't escape the feeling that he's just spoiling for a fight and it doesn't really enter into his mind whether or not NK has the ability to do this or that - he just sees them as upstart bad guys who threaten the US and he wants to put them in their place.

Trump is so erractic I am afraid to check news web sites in the morning

each day I think I will see 'Trump bombs North Korea' or 'Trump bombs Russians in error in Syria' along with associated fear afterwards

[fudge]

Ian McCulloch legged it from Japan

http://en.rocketnews24.com/2017/04/16/musician-ian-mcculloch-flees-japan-amid-us-north-korea-tensions-show-cancelled-without-warning/

Story belows better 😂 http://en.rocketnews24.com/2016/11/13/north-korea-requests-china-refrain-from-calling-leader-fatty-kim-iii/

Fatty McFatFace

[thelinnen]

Make no mistake, this situation has the potential to have catastrophic consequences.

We simply do not know the extent to which China has influence over North Korea. Tension between China and Japan is increasing. The US sees Japan as being pivotal to its influence in the Pacific.

South Korea, Japan and China have much to lose economically by armed conflict. North Korea has nothing to lose. Totalitarian dictators are not marked out for their logic, see Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

A strike against US forces is a possibility, and one which the US could easily deal with and respond to. A land battle within the Korean peninsular would be much more difficult to respond to.

China also have a lot to lose from a country they are basically colonialising having their balls held in a vice by a crazed dictator.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I've been in the DMZ. Scary, scary place.

[The Gulleysucker]

I've been in the DMZ. Scary, scary place.

Priory Road?....

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Priory Road?....

Was there when they were sending the 'peace balloons' over and went into the tunnels.

Amazing this shit still goes on in this day and age.

[Cruiser]

I've been in the DMZ. Scary, scary place.

Were you at the JSA?

The South Korean soldiers look absolutely badass. All blackbelts in Taekwondo.