Topic: FSG (*)

[killer-heels]

Klopp can say whatever he wants. Rodgers also towed the party line and said money wasn't a problem - but privately was briefing the press the exact opposite.

Klopp working on amateur hour - if he is not getting his first targets, then why on earth would he believe money is not the issue? Is he being fed the nonsense that we aren't in London, can't attract because players want Champions League ( c ) Excuse manual from FSG.

Furthermore, let's suppose there were no major targets available around in January, that our board identified no players that Klopp could buy - how about a few experienced players, few loans, etc - just to beef the squad up a little.

Fergie once signed Henrik Larsson in January. He was past it, but he came in and played enough games just to tide them over to a league title. I've looked around the signings in January - some quality players came into the Premier League. Could we not identify anyone just to come in and do a job for a few seasons?

We took frugal to a new level, and the sheer arrogance of even sending players on loan.

Sorry but thats rubbish. Klopp had opportunities and he took the gamble. There definitely is an issue with the owners here and clearly they have proved that they don't really know much about this game but Klopp had the scope to do more but he didn't.

Maybe he was over confident in his own ability or that of his team? Either way our lack of investment is as much to do with the managers choices.

[El Lobo]

There's no such thing as the 'ultimate responsibility' in football. If you get shit customer Service from a lad in ASDA you don't say 'well he's okay, and his managers okay, the problem lies with the owner of ASDA'.

If they make a mistake, criticise them.

If the manager makes a mistake, criticise him.

If a player makes a mistake, criticise him.

You don't. We spent £20 million on Lovren, who at the time was doing well in the PL. two different managers have kept him and played him. So pray tell, whose fault it is that he made two ridiculous schoolboy errors today? Him? Manager? Coaching staff? Or do we just go for the full on stretch that it's FSGs fault because they haven't backed the manager and we'd have replaced him with Alderweireld if we had.

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

Am I right in saying that their net transfer spend since 2010/11 is around £176M? Did a quick squizz on Transfermarkt but not sure how reliable the site is. Equals roughly a £25M transfer budget per season. I can barely even quantify how Spurs over the same period actually made a profit of £600k (and paid less than £20M for Alderweireld and Alli combined). Lots of money been spent on utter dross since they came in, and with virtually fuck all return. Part of me has to consider why they would want to chuck £200M at the club, if that's the number to be believed. I'd be astonished if we spend anywhere near that amount this summer.

[Johnny Foreigner]

There's no such thing as the 'ultimate responsibility' in football. If you get shit customer Service from a lad in ASDA you don't say 'well he's okay, and his managers okay, the problem lies with the owner of ASDA'.

Good example ! I wouldn't turn on the guy with the minimum wage with shit working conditions.. I Would stop shop there though; little more difficult when it comes to football though; stopped the corporate money though and might consider the personal ones also..

[ToneLa]

Klopp can say whatever he wants. Rodgers also towed the party line and said money wasn't a problem - but privately was briefing the press the exact opposite.

Klopp working on amateur hour - if he is not getting his first targets, then why on earth would he believe money is not the issue? Is he being fed the nonsense that we aren't in London, can't attract because players want Champions League ( c ) Excuse manual from FSG.

Furthermore, let's suppose there were no major targets available around in January, that our board identified no players that Klopp could buy - how about a few experienced players, few loans, etc - just to beef the squad up a little.

Fergie once signed Henrik Larsson in January. He was past it, but he came in and played enough games just to tide them over to a league title. I've looked around the signings in January - some quality players came into the Premier League. Could we not identify anyone just to come in and do a job for a few seasons?

We took frugal to a new level, and the sheer arrogance of even sending players on loan.

Yeah but you literally copy and paste the same anti FSG stuff between forums so off to ignore you go

[Lycan]

All these stories being leaked out about having 200 mill to spend in the summer. About how the pennies finally dropped for FSG. And how Klopp will be backed all the way to make sure he gets his number one targets.

We lose a game at home to Palace. A game that takes qualifying out of our hands for now anyway and what do we get? A story leaked through James Pearce telling us if we don't get CL football it will not just be difficult but impossible to sign our number one targets. *sighs* Seriously, same old, same old FSG.

If you want what we want. If you want Liverpool to become successful again. To be CL regulars. Competing for and winning titles and trophies. Pay whatever it takes to sign the players Klopp wants you mingebags. And stop using the lack of CL football as an excuse.

[FrancisB]

Am I right in saying that their net transfer spend since 2010/11 is around £176M?

176m profit, maybe

[kingz]

There's no such thing as the 'ultimate responsibility' in football. If you get shit customer Service from a lad in ASDA you don't say 'well he's okay, and his managers okay, the problem lies with the owner of ASDA'.

If they make a mistake, criticise them.

If the manager makes a mistake, criticise him.

If a player makes a mistake, criticise him.

You don't. We spent £20 million on Lovren, who at the time was doing well in the PL. two different managers have kept him and played him. So pray tell, whose fault it is that he made two ridiculous schoolboy errors today? Him? Manager? Coaching staff? Or do we just go for the full on stretch that it's FSGs fault because they haven't backed the manager and we'd have replaced him with Alderweireld if we had.

So if the owners of ASDA hired a shit recruitment manager who made poor decisions , its not their fault ?..

[ToneLa]

So if the owners of ASDA hired a shit recruitment manager who made poor decisions , its not their fault ?..

If that recruitment manager hired an amazing floor manager to do the day to day and influence his staff, and got good results 90% of the time, no!

We lose a game at home to Palace. A game that takes qualifying out of our hands for now anyway and what do we get? A story leaked through James Pearce telling us if we don't get CL football it will not just be difficult but impossible to sign our number one targets. *sighs* Seriously, same old, same old FSG.

Is this bolded bit a satirical comment on the thread? Surely not making top four has a massive impact on potential signings?

Ah let me guess - FSG leaking lines to tow, or some other shite that can't be proven but fits in with the personal unhappiness we get after a loss.

It's amusing how many people aren't in this thread until we lose

[El Lobo]

So if the owners of ASDA hired a shit recruitment manager who made poor decisions , its not their fault ?..

Who's the shit recruitment manager? Or the shit people he's recruiting?

[Jake]

176m profit, maybe

So that's a lie, in order to disparage FSG. Nice fake news there guv. Way to add to the debate.

[Johnny Foreigner]

There's no such thing as the 'ultimate responsibility' in football. If you get shit customer Service from a lad in ASDA you don't say 'well he's okay, and his managers okay, the problem lies with the owner of ASDA'.

If they make a mistake, criticise them.

If the manager makes a mistake, criticise him.

If a player makes a mistake, criticise him.

You don't. We spent £20 million on Lovren, who at the time was doing well in the PL. two different managers have kept him and played him. So pray tell, whose fault it is that he made two ridiculous schoolboy errors today? Him? Manager? Coaching staff? Or do we just go for the full on stretch that it's FSGs fault because they haven't backed the manager and we'd have replaced him with Alderweireld if we had.

Some points here which i dont really follow... brewster 17-18 year old and he is clearly in there to make the numbers against big sams yard dogs. if he comes in and makes a mistake - should we critizise him ?  that is not the liverpool way if i am being polite..

[El Lobo]

Some points here which i dont really follow... brewster 17-18 year old and he is clearly in there to make the numbers against big sams yard dogs. if he comes in and makes a mistake - should we critizise him ?  that is not the liverpool way if i am being polite..

 

If a 17 year old kid comes on and misses an open goal, you don't then go and blame the owners. It's not a particularly difficult point I'm making, there has to be culpability everywhere or it doesn't work.

[Johnny Foreigner]

If a 17 year old kid comes on and misses an open goal, you don't then go and blame the owners. It's not a particularly difficult point I'm making, there has to be culpability everywhere or it doesn't work.

I blame the owners for him being there in the first place. i blame the owner for not having a sports director after i posted in 2012 that hiring the nerd was a bad move ;-)

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Balance the books first, worry about squad depth and competing on all fronts for another time.

Been the same story throughout their reign leading to two hugely talented managers in Brendan and Jurgen being unfairly hung out to dry and relying on unfinished articles and mediocrity in reserve to turn games.

They won't get away with another summer of it and they know it. Not from Jurgen, not from us.

[Day1983]

If that recruitment manager hired an amazing floor manager to do the day to day and influence his staff, and got good results 90% of the time, no!

Is this bolded bit a satirical comment on the thread? Surely not making top four has a massive impact on potential signings?

Ah let me guess - FSG leaking lines to tow, or some other shite that can't be proven but fits in with the personal unhappiness we get after a loss.

It's amusing how many people aren't in this thread until we lose

We would still be able to get some of our top targets if we pay them massive wages, others are able to do it. We won't though so we will have to aim lower.

[diegoLFC7]

FSG will turn Liverpool into the Dortmund of england but without the success. We will make youngsters like Woodburn, Trent, Wilson, Brewster, etc into first team players and sell them for practically 100% profit. Its the model they tried with Rodgers prior to 14-15 when they thought Balotelli and Lambert were adequate replacements for Luis Suarez. In my opinion its not FSG's fault that our squad and whole set up is so weak and fragile. They just dont get football, they arent based in the country where the team plays and give more attention to their baseball team. They have taken us out of the financial hole that Hicks and Gillete got us in but thats about it. As business men FSG are a great group but to build a team that will bring joy to the fans they are clueless.

[Day1983]

Oooohhh they'll be coming for you mate!

[Lycan]

FSG will turn Liverpool into the Dortmund of england but without the success. We will make youngsters like Woodburn, Trent, Wilson, Brewster, etc into first team players and sell them for practically 100% profit. Its the model they tried with Rodgers prior to 14-15 when they thought Balotelli and Lambert were adequate replacements for Luis Suarez. In my opinion its not FSG's fault that our squad and whole set up is so weak and fragile. They just dont get football, they arent based in the country where the team plays and give more attention to their baseball team. They have taken us out of the financial hole that Hicks and Gillete got us in but thats about it. As business men FSG are a great group but to build a team that will bring joy to the fans they are clueless.

Who's fault is it then mate?

[Lycan]

If it is true what Jame Pearce said that if we don't make the CL it'll be impossible to sign our 1st choice targets. I'm done with them. I'm not having you can't attract CL level football players without CL football. It's all about ambition. You pay the money and the majority of them will come.

You know, they've been making massive noises about giving the manager a huge amount of money. That they'll be going all out to bring in the players Klopp want's. But as soon as there is a setback we're hearing it will be impossible for us to sign our 1st choice targets. Hearing this has actually pissed me off more than us losing yesterday.

[Vinay]

Fernando Torres, in a chapter that is also published in this forum from his new book, reveals that the new owners were going to reconstruct Liverpool Football Club by acquiring younger players. 8 years later, the club is still in the same position as it was when Torres decided to leave with Comolli at the head of recruitment. Arguably, we have a realistic chance of finishing of getting CL football but I wouldn't bet on it.

[rich87]

Who's the shit recruitment manager? Or the shit people he's recruiting?

The transfer Committee.

The group of people who are hired and paid well at Liverpool football club to do a job of:

Recruiting players
Finding and spotting potential targets
Signing those potential targets.

Of course the recruiting side has excelled itself since FSG have been here. We've tried THREE times to fit a big target man in (Benteke, Carrol, Balotelli - spending a combined £75-80 million on them) We knew they wouldn't work, but the transfer committee allowed these players to sign, along with recruiting a lot of average dross as well along the way.

FSG employ the football people at this club, a simple yes or no answer?

Not everything can be attached to Klopps head - and I can't believe so many people have turned on Klopp so quickly actually on this forum. I doubt he'll stay long, because the spin that the fans are already putting on this - will soon eat its way into Anfield and the unrest will soon start to cause the old Everton Boo's, and he'll walk away.

It was there job to spot potential targets in January and give a big shiny list to Klopp. Klopps job is to coach the players, to make them better, to drill them tactically, he can't spend time during the season running around other football games worldwide and spotting targets, that is the job of the recruitment side of the 'business'

FSG have failed massively when it comes to the transfer market, yes we've spent money, but it has been spent wrongly. Did we do enough last summer? Not by a long stretch.

If this summer they fail to bring in some big targets, I for one am happy to lead the protests, because I'm sick of our club being run to line yet another group of rich American investment group pockets.

[SteveLFC]

7 game unbeaten run = FSG thread disappears
Lose a game = FSG thread reappears

If only all things in life were as predictable as this.

[rich87]

7 game unbeaten run = FSG thread disappears
Lose a game = FSG thread reappears

If only all things in life were as predictable as this.

Perhaps because things have already been discussed? Perhaps because some posters are ready to wait and give them the summer to see what happens, but then the article from Pearce comes out - and it seems like we are becoming Everton Mark II.

Noise from fans = Leak out we're spending £200 million

Find a way to back track on that, so they don't have to make an investment, and blame market conditions (CL qualification)

Have another poor summer recruiting

End up 5th - 8th again next season

Klopp leaves

We end up continuing being mid-table.

And you are happy with this?

[SteveLFC]

Have another poor summer recruiting

End up 5th - 8th again next season

Klopp leaves

We end up continuing being mid-table.

And you are happy with this?

Why would I be happy with this? How about this..

Have a good summer recruiting (last year was pretty good)

End up top four (who knows, maybe win the league)

Klopp stays

We end up as league contenders for many seasons to come.

Why be so negative? I know the past 10 seasons have been a story of mediocrity on the whole but it doesn't mean the next 10 will be.

Do you seriously believe that one of the best managers in world football would be at our club if he didn't believe in the project? Come on, be positive and good things will come.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

If it is true what Jame Pearce said that if we don't make the CL it'll be impossible to sign our 1st choice targets. I'm done with them.

And what are you going to do about it if so?

How will you, or any of us, really know if the players we buy were the 1st or 2nd choice? Because Maddock, Pearce or Ian Doyle writes an opinion piece about it in the newspaper, or how?

[Fairytale of 2005]

7 game unbeaten run = FSG thread disappears
Lose a game = FSG thread reappears

If only all things in life were as predictable as this.

Or as predictable as FSG spin.

[Wool]

How will you, or any of us, really know if the players we buy were the 1st or 2nd choice?

Probably because the club has very obviously been briefing journalists on who our top targets are throughout the entire season. Keita, Brandt etc. If you don't want to believe them and think they've pulled the information out of their arses then fair enough, but that's obviously not the case.

[killer-heels]

Probably because the club has very obviously been briefing journalists on who our top targets are throughout the entire season. Keita, Brandt etc. If you don't want to believe them and think they've pulled the information out of their arses then fair enough, but that's obviously not the case.

All those articles came with a caveat that they will only come if we get CL. Its good expectation management from the club there. They know exactly what they are doing when they brief the press in these ways.

[koptommy93]

All those articles came with a caveat that they will only come if we get CL. Its good expectation management from the club there. They know exactly what they are doing when they brief the press in these ways.

Look at who we signed after finishing 2nd. I'm not sure why people see top 4 as a guarantee of signing quality to be honest. All of the players we signed in the summer of 2014 were the sort we'd normally go after anyway. 

[killer-heels]

Look at who we signed after finishing 2nd. I'm not sure why people see top 4 as a guarantee of signing quality to be honest. All of the players we signed in the summer of 2014 were the sort we'd normally go after anyway. 

It isnt. We can sign good players even without CL. I very much doubt we will be able to get Brandt and Van Dijk though. We will have to go for 2nd or 3rd choice targets.

[koptommy93]

It isnt. We can sign good players even without CL. I very much doubt we will be able to get Brandt and Van Dijk though. We will have to go for 2nd or 3rd choice targets.

I don't think we'd have a shot at them regardless considering the other clubs that are rumoured to be interested.

[El Lobo]

I don't think we'd have a shot at them regardless considering the other clubs that are rumoured to be interested.

The impression I get is that we've possibly had conversations with those players around signing for us if we finish in the top 4.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

It isnt. We can sign good players even without CL. I very much doubt we will be able to get Brandt and Van Dijk though. We will have to go for 2nd or 3rd choice targets.

Because our club is too tight to spend money. Our owners are not too ambitious to see us win, they're happy growing the value of the brand and cashing the profits.

We sign our 2nd-3rd choice targets, we have more days like this, we finish outside the CL places again, our manager gets fed up, leaves and we continue becoming more and more irrelevant by the day.

There is a reason why a player like Benteke scored more goals for Villa and Palace at Anfield than for Liverpool and as good as he is, it is damn sure not because of his qualities that this happened.

[Eeyore]

This is what I posted

If you have read the emails then firstly FSG are only here according to JWH because the cost of building a new stadium put off other bidders. Secondly they always intended to redevelop Anfield and with an emphasis on increasing the corporate take.

Your reply.

Oh good. Now the only reason FSG got to buy LFC is because others backed out. Sure Al, we all believed you and your emails.

From the emails http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-leaked-emails-what-fsg-9777236

This could be a steal. Every buyer believes what potential Red Sox buyers believed — you have to build a new stadium. And they believe the stadium will cost more than £350m! That’s why there are no bidders. We would probably take the same approach we took to Fenway Park. But we’d be looking to limit investment in the facility to 8 figures.

[jambutty]

We would still be able to get some of our top targets if we pay them massive wages, others are able to do it.

Like Sanchez?

[El Lobo]

Because our club is too tight to spend money. Our owners are not too ambitious to see us win, they're happy growing the value of the brand and cashing the profits.

We sign our 2nd-3rd choice targets, we have more days like this, we finish outside the CL places again, our manager gets fed up, leaves and we continue becoming more and more irrelevant by the day.

There is a reason why a player like Benteke scored more goals for Villa and Palace at Anfield than for Liverpool and as good as he is, it is damn sure not because of his qualities that this happened.

Everyone signs their 2nd/3rd choice targets, generally. Not sure why this has suddenly become a stick to beat the owners with. Obviously, if we NEVER get the managers preferred players then yeah that's a problem. But then, Mario Gotze was allegedly our first choice option and Sadio Mane 2nd choice. So go figure if its a particularly terrible thing or not. Do people think Spurs or Arsenal always sign their first choice targets, every time? It doesn't happen.

What we need this summer is exactly the same as the last, which is to sign 3/4 players to come into the first XI and make a difference.

[rich87]

Why would I be happy with this? How about this..

Have a good summer recruiting (last year was pretty good)

End up top four (who knows, maybe win the league)

Klopp stays

We end up as league contenders for many seasons to come.

Why be so negative? I know the past 10 seasons have been a story of mediocrity on the whole but it doesn't mean the next 10 will be.

Do you seriously believe that one of the best managers in world football would be at our club if he didn't believe in the project? Come on, be positive and good things will come.

Read your post again and read the bit in bold again, then read your post again.

Why so negative was your question, yes?

Then you point out - i know the last 10 years have been rubbish, but whose to say the next 10 will be. Fair point, except...

Statistically if the last 10 years under FSG have been rubbish, and the owners haven't changed, what's the probability that next year (this summer's recruitment) will be any different?

Yes we have Klopp but footballs changed, players that are average are going for 30 million.

Sell Sturridge, Sahko and a few others we'll make £80 million or so this year, add our (statistics again) usual net spend (max 20 million who knows - last few Windows have been profits) and we'll get 2 decent or 3 average players in the summer.

Our bench consisted of 5 teen-agers yesterday - that's minimum 5 class players that should be coming in.

Will that happen?

As you rightly pointed out last 10 years have been mediocrity - why will this summer be different?

[El Lobo]

Our bench consisted of 5 teen-agers yesterday - that's minimum 5 class players that should be coming in.

Will that happen?

As you rightly pointed out last 10 years have been mediocrity - why will this summer be different?

This is the same as the extending the Anny Road end.

We just have to assume, for the sake of argument, that no it wont happen. And no, this summer wont be any different. That's the logical thing to do, to assume the negative and then argue it as fact. Otherwise, what would there be to discuss?

[rich87]

I have to say though - usual caveats apply - is the reason we were laughing and beating Everton with over the past 12 months.

Yet now we have a thread full of FSG apologists who are already throwing get out of jail free cards to the owners for another season (this summer's recruitment)

Will the usual caveats apply when Klopp walks like Rafa did at Valencia, asking for a desk and getting a lamp shade?

Then again most of the FSG apologists already think Klopp is to blame for why under FSG tenure we have failed to win anything, and why a club the size of Liverpool continues to make profits in each transfer window.

The worst thing is Moore's sold to 'allow us to compete in the transfer market' yet under his ownership we were spending 15-20 million net each season - now after 2 cowboy owners we instead find ourselves making profits each window. Yet the money in the game has increased tenfold.