Topic: FSG (*)

[Eeyore]

You ignore work permit issues though. We couldn't have signed Coutinho at 16 like Inter did, for example.

We could of though. Inter bought him at 16 and then loaned him back to Vasco for two years by which time he was on the verge of the full Brazil side.

[SwordInYourGut]

How about commenting on what Torres said.


I don’t think it’s so important the owners are in England, in Liverpool,” he says. “What I think is important is that they put someone in charge who is in Liverpool — the right person who understands what Liverpool means. I am sure most owners have many businesses. The only thing they have to do in football is give the money that you need to compete with others. Whatever name you want — the president or the sporting director — they need to understand Liverpool, the feelings. He has to listen to the fans and listen to the players and do a job that is up to the level of the club, meeting the standards that have been set through history.

“You need someone there who understands what Liverpool is, because for the owners it is just a business and without someone telling them the right information it will fail. OK, if they are in Liverpool it will help them but if they are not, put someone in charge who is there and understands football and the club.”

That someone is Klopp. He has more power and responsibilities than most managers do. The owners are clearly taking feedback from him on everything. Klopp is effectively the head of all football operations at Liverpool FC.

[Graham Smith]

Excuse me for being from Sweden and not knowing the exact words of an English children's song.

That was a low blow on your part.

Fucking childish too.

Says the person quoting a nursery rhyme to suggest posts that don't meet his views are boring and repetitive.

That is disrespectful to people trying to continuously explain that they are not being binary about FSG - there are nuances which allow significant, deep criticism of part of what the owners are doing and have done - and an acknowledgement that they are good owners in other ways.

Let's leave it there.

[Eeyore]

'have' not 'of'. 

I am Scouse not English dough.

"Dey do dough, don't dey dough"

[Phil M]

I am Scouse not English dough.

"Dey do dough, don't dey dough"

Haha.

As you were gents.

[Eeyore]

That someone is Klopp. He has more power and responsibilities than most managers do. The owners are clearly taking feedback from him on everything. Klopp is effectively the head of all football operations at Liverpool FC.

Why on God's earth would you want to burden Klopp with that though. He has enough on his plate trying to win football matches without tasking him with being head of football operations.

[5yearplan]

How about commenting on what Torres said.


I don’t think it’s so important the owners are in England, in Liverpool,” he says. “What I think is important is that they put someone in charge who is in Liverpool — the right person who understands what Liverpool means. I am sure most owners have many businesses. The only thing they have to do in football is give the money that you need to compete with others. Whatever name you want — the president or the sporting director — they need to understand Liverpool, the feelings. He has to listen to the fans and listen to the players and do a job that is up to the level of the club, meeting the standards that have been set through history.

“You need someone there who understands what Liverpool is, because for the owners it is just a business and without someone telling them the right information it will fail. OK, if they are in Liverpool it will help them but if they are not, put someone in charge who is there and understands football and the club.”

Because Al
I couldn't give a toss, because a man who played for us for a while,who left under a cloud, got a ghost writer to write some vague bullshit to justify putting in a transfer request and then used that to fill out a book to make more money out of people.

honestly Al, seems to me, you will believe anything sometimes, conversely when it suits your agenda you will accuse all and sundry of obfusucation or in some case bare faced lying.

Fact is this thread has run its course
The owners dont spend enough, spend too much, hire the wrong people, dont have enough scouts, aren't building enough stadium, dont buy the right players, they are American, hedge fund owners, not proper football people.

Doesn't really matter what I say Al you will come back with some answer, or failing that cherry pick a single line in an answer and try to use thhat as a tangent to argue something entirely different and hope nobody notices you ignored the question.

People have tried to be patient, but you are relentless, its not that you are neccesarily  wrong on everything, it's just that your one eyed agenda  makes you sound like a villager with a flaming torch and a monster to find.

You argue like a politician never settling, answering a different question to the one you are asked, and determined to get everyone to give in or give up, well ok, you win I give up, thus the phrase "done with it"

Done with you Al, lifes too short
 

[Johnny Foreigner]

Would be nice if Mr Henry would update his open letter from 2012.

Liverpool Football Club's principal owner John W Henry has written the following open letter to supporters:



I am as disappointed as anyone connected with Liverpool Football Club that we were unable to add further to our strike force in this summer transfer window, but that was not through any lack of desire or effort on the part of all of those involved. They pushed hard in the final days of the transfer window on a number of forward targets and it is unfortunate that on this occasion we were unable to conclude acceptable deals to bring those targets in.

But a summer window which brought in three young, but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future - Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi - could hardly be deemed a failure as we build for the future. 

Nor should anyone minimise the importance of keeping our best players during this window. We successfully retained Daniel Agger, Martin Skrtel and Luis Suarez. We greatly appreciate their faith and belief in the club. And we successfully negotiated new, long-term contracts with Luis and with Martin.

No one should doubt our commitment to the club. In Brendan Rodgers we have a talented young manager and we have valued highly his judgement about the make-up of the squad. This is a work in progress. It will take time for Brendan to instill his philosophy into the squad and build exactly what he needs for the long term.

The transfer policy was not about cutting costs. It was - and will be in the future - about getting maximum value for what is spent so that we can build quality and depth. We are avowed proponents of UEFA's Financial Fair Play agenda that was this week reiterated by Mr Platini - something we heartily applaud. We must comply with Financial Fair Play guidelines that ensure spending is tied to income. We have been successful in improving the commercial side of the club and the monies generated going forward will give us greater spending power in the coming years.

We are still in the process of reversing the errors of previous regimes. It will not happen overnight. It has been compounded by our own mistakes in a difficult first two years of ownership. It has been a harsh education, but make no mistake, the club is healthier today than when we took over.   

Spending is not merely about buying talent. Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years. Our emphasis will be on developing our own players using the skills of an increasingly impressive coaching team. Much thought and investment already have gone into developing a self-sustaining pool of youngsters imbued in the club's traditions.

That ethos is to win. We will invest to succeed. But we will not mortgage the future with risky spending.

After almost two years at Anfield, we are close to having the system we need in place. The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again: we are looking at the next 16 years and beyond. These are the first steps in restoring one of the world's great clubs to its proper status.

It will not be easy, it will not be perfect, but there is a clear vision at work.

We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players.

We will never place this club in the precarious position that we found it in when we took over at Anfield. This club should never again run up debts that threaten its existence.

Most of all, we want to win. That ambition drives every decision. It is the Liverpool way. We can and will generate the revenues to achieve that aim. There will be short-term setbacks from time to time, but we believe we have the right people in place to bring more glory to Anfield.

Finally, I can say with authority that our ownership is not about profit. Contrary to popular opinion, owners rarely get involved in sports in order to generate cash. They generally get involved with a club in order to compete and work for the benefit of their club. It's often difficult. In our case we work every day in order to generate revenues to improve the club. We have only one driving ambition at Liverpool and that is the quest to win the Premier League playing the kind of football our supporters want to see. That will only occur if we do absolutely the right things to build the club in a way that makes sense for supporters, for us and for those who will follow us. We will deliver what every long-term supporter of Liverpool Football Club aches for.

JOHN W HENRY


http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/john-henry-s-open-letter-to-fans

[El Lobo]

Would be nice if Mr Henry would update his open letter from 2012.

With respect Johnny, our owners aren't going to pen an open letter every time a few fans start getting a bit pissy about us not spending more money.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Says the person quoting a nursery rhyme to suggest posts that don't meet his views are boring and repetitive.

That is disrespectful to people trying to continuously explain that they are not being binary about FSG - there are nuances which allow significant, deep criticism of part of what the owners are doing and have done - and an acknowledgement that they are good owners in other ways.

Let's Lets leave it there.

I wasn't taking sides. It was an attempt to express that the discussion has become utterly circular, in a lighthearted way. It's not moving forward at all.

Never did I expect that someone would take offense to it. But I guess some are more easily offended than others. And now I know where your line is.

And if you had read my posts, you'd know that I think there is plenty to criticise them for. I just did on this very page. Before I left the thread a few weeks ago, I wrote in very clear words that I think they have done both good and bad here. So don't jump to conclusions what "my views" are.

Lets leave it there.

[Johnny Foreigner]

With respect Johnny, our owners aren't going to pen an open letter every time a few fans start getting a bit pissy about us not spending more money.

With respect - its not about spending money or not.

they're american business men; their ethos is to win and according to themselves - all decisions are geared to win,..

they have failed - simple as, unless winning is something else than winning trophies. maybe like the everton way - winning without winning..

[Eeyore]

Because Al
I couldn't give a toss, because a man who played for us for a while,who left under a cloud, got a ghost writer to write some vague bullshit to justify putting in a transfer request and then used that to fill out a book to make more money out of people.

honestly Al, seems to me, you will believe anything sometimes, conversely when it suits your agenda you will accuse all and sundry of obfusucation or in some case bare faced lying.

Fact is this thread has run its course
The owners dont spend enough, spend too much, hire the wrong people, dont have enough scouts, aren't building enough stadium, dont buy the right players, they are American, hedge fund owners, not proper football people.

Doesn't really matter what I say Al you will come back with some answer, or failing that cherry pick a single line in an answer and try to use thhat as a tangent to argue something entirely different and hope nobody notices you ignored the question.

People have tried to be patient, but you are relentless, its not that you are neccesarily  wrong on everything, it's just that your one eyed agenda  makes you sound like a villager with a flaming torch and a monster to find.

You argue like a politician never settling, answering a different question to the one you are asked, and determined to get everyone to give in or give up, well ok, you win I give up, thus the phrase "done with it"

Done with you Al, lifes too short
 

The irony you have just done exactly what you accuse me of doing. 

Why not just answer the question is there merit in what Torres said.

[5yearplan]

The irony you have just done exactly what you accuse me of doing. 

Why not just answer the question is there merit in what Torres said.

Done with you Al, lifes too short

[Eeyore]

With respect Johnny, our owners aren't going to pen an open letter every time a few fans start getting a bit pissy about us not spending more money.

The irony is that the thread isn't about spending more money and you know it.

It's about

 'After almost two years at Anfield, we are close to having the system we need in place. The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again: we are looking at the next 16 years and beyond. These are the first steps in restoring one of the world's great clubs to its proper status.'

It's about

'That ethos is to win. We will invest to succeed.'

It's about.

'We have only one driving ambition at Liverpool and that is the quest to win the Premier League playing the kind of football our supporters want to see.'


Forget trying to deflect and notions of pissy fans. It is now 2017 so have they delivered or not ?

[Eeyore]

Done with you Al, lifes too short

Is there merit in what Torres said ?

Yes or No.

If you haven't got the bollocks to answer questions then can you please stop casting aspersions about me because time after time I have fronted up and answered any question people have asked. (Within reason of course  )

[JCB]

The irony you have just done exactly what you accuse me of doing. 

Why not just answer the question is there merit in what Torres said.

The thing is Al, you have this tendency of applying one rule for yourself and another for everyone else...

I chatted to you on this thread about a month ago and asked the same question 3 or 4 times and you refused to answer and kept going off on a tangent. Yet you expect everyone to answer your questions and believe that everyone else is being hypocritcal/ironic when they don't. Why should he feel obliged to, if you don't play by the rules yourself.

Don't get me wrong, i respect you - your passion for the reds is a sight to behold - but can't you see how you create tension that way and why people then,  as you like to say, ' attack the poster' and not the post.

I believe you know know what you are doing,  the others do as well. That's why they don't rise to it like you want them to

[El Lobo]

With respect - its not about spending money or not.

they're american business men; their ethos is to win and according to themselves - all decisions are geared to win,..

they have failed - simple as, unless winning is something else than winning trophies. maybe like the everton way - winning without winning..

Ok so the open letter, which talks about the next 16 years and not perhaps getting instant success and potential set backs short term, should be re-done to talk about the fact that they haven't got instant success and there have been set backs in the short term?

I mean this sort of thing, genuinely what is it you're after? Its been asked before, but what is it? What's your end game? If you're that dissatisfied with the owners, start some protests. Or do you want an open letter every time they make a decision you don't agree with? Trophies, yeah fine. Wish we'd won more, should have won more. This close to winning the title, a bad half from winning the Europa, a couple of better penalties from winning another league cup, a couple of bad calls from winning the FA Cup. They've made mistakes, they've acknowledged those mistakes, we all have. Its been done. In terms of winning trophies, yeah absolutely we should have won more. But its fine, fine margins. I'm sure we'll get excuses of 'oh it was only Suarez that nearly won us the league' or 'oh it was only Klopp that nearly won us the Europa' but all of these nearly nearly moments were orchestrated by players and managers signed by FSG. So again, really not sure what you'd want an open letter to read?

[Johnny Foreigner]

Ok so the open letter, which talks about the next 16 years and not perhaps getting instant success and potential set backs short term, should be re-done to talk about the fact that they haven't got instant success and there have been set backs in the short term?

I mean this sort of thing, genuinely what is it you're after? Its been asked before, but what is it? What's your end game? If you're that dissatisfied with the owners, start some protests. Or do you want an open letter every time they make a decision you don't agree with? Trophies, yeah fine. Wish we'd won more, should have won more. This close to winning the title, a bad half from winning the Europa, a couple of better penalties from winning another league cup, a couple of bad calls from winning the FA Cup. They've made mistakes, they've acknowledged those mistakes, we all have. Its been done. In terms of winning trophies, yeah absolutely we should have won more. But its fine, fine margins. I'm sure we'll get excuses of 'oh it was only Suarez that nearly won us the league' or 'oh it was only Klopp that nearly won us the Europa' but all of these nearly nearly moments were orchestrated by players and managers signed by FSG. So again, really not sure what you'd want an open letter to read?

Employ some footballing people that can manage/support Klopp

Get away from short sighted american thinking when it comes to investing for the future

Invest in the squad so you can compete on several fronts.

Show your face from time to time

Show some proper willingness to win something

[DangerScouse]

Ok so the open letter, which talks about the next 16 years and not perhaps getting instant success and potential set backs short term, should be re-done to talk about the fact that they haven't got instant success and there have been set backs in the short term?

I mean this sort of thing, genuinely what is it you're after? Its been asked before, but what is it? What's your end game? If you're that dissatisfied with the owners, start some protests. Or do you want an open letter every time they make a decision you don't agree with? Trophies, yeah fine. Wish we'd won more, should have won more. This close to winning the title, a bad half from winning the Europa, a couple of better penalties from winning another league cup, a couple of bad calls from winning the FA Cup. They've made mistakes, they've acknowledged those mistakes, we all have. Its been done. In terms of winning trophies, yeah absolutely we should have won more. But its fine, fine margins. I'm sure we'll get excuses of 'oh it was only Suarez that nearly won us the league' or 'oh it was only Klopp that nearly won us the Europa' but all of these nearly nearly moments were orchestrated by players and managers signed by FSG. So again, really not sure what you'd want an open letter to read?

Why was it acceptable for you to question the owners so early in there tenure, yet you have issues with people doing so now?

[El Denzel Pepito]

Lets leave it there.

Isn't it actually "let's" though?

[El Lobo]

Employ some footballing people that can manage/support Klopp

Get away from short sighted american thinking when it comes to investing for the future

Invest in the squad so you can compete on several fronts.

Show your face from time to time

Show some proper willingness to win something

Aye but again, none of that really makes sense.

Show a willingness to win something? What does that even mean? Willing to win something? They were literally a slip away from being the owners to bring us the league title, with players signed under the scouts and DOFs they hired and a manager they hired. They were one good second half away from winning the Europa League and CL qualification with players signed under their scouts and DOFs they hired and a manager they hired. These are small margins. This is football, it happens. It doesn't make them terrible, unsuccessful, awful owners. We were a miraculous save from Dudek and a miraculous goal from Gerrard away from winning naff all under Rafa. We were also a miraculous nobody from Italy away from winning the title under Rafa as well, under G&H. 'Winning things' isn't really down to the owners at the end of the day. The finals we've gotten to and close runs are from a position FSG have put us in by investing in those very managers and players. That's a fact.

A squad to compete on several fronts is what we saw last season, but again you'll make excuses that actually it wasn't competing on several fronts and that was just down to the manager. And them signing the manager isn't on them, or something.

Honestly, a bit of balance would be good. You cherry pick things which you feel they should do, like you have any remote idea of what it takes to own and run a sporting institution. And when they don't meet your ideas, you want open letters and apologies. Its not happening.

[El Lobo]

Why was it acceptable for you to question the owners so early in there tenure, yet you have issues with people doing so now?

....when they hired a DOF who then proceeded to make pretty bizarre signings which in no way kept with the style of play we were playing, which then led to dreadful form, the sacking of a legend, and mistakes which they have openly admitted they made? I don't think theres anyone who can say they think they were making great decisions early on.

The difference is that they're making, from the outside, much better decisions now. Signing better players, hiring better managers, using money more wisely.

Maybe go for another angle mate, you've chucked that one out before and it kind of sank there too.

[Chris~]

Chose to ignore it or just made the point that signing good English talents doesn't equate to signing the most talented players in the World in an age group.

Oh, so Sterling was, at 14/15 what are you basing him being one of the best talents in the world on, or Brewster? Seeing as how they are the sort of player you picked out as the we don't sign anymore. Why those two but not the others basically?

[Day1983]

What a thread!
People arguing over whether FSG have been successful or are good owners? Let's have a look in the trophy cabinet...

[SerbianScouser]

People arguing over whether FSG have been successful or are good owners?

And since they are not let's sack them and hire much richer owners...oh, wait, that's not how it works.

[Chakan]

What a thread!
People arguing over whether FSG have been successful or are good owners? Let's have a look in the trophy cabinet...

So H&G were successful and good owners?

[Day1983]

And since they are not let's sack them and hire much richer owners...oh, wait, that's not how it works.

What are you on about??

[Day1983]

So H&G were successful and good owners?

Why what trophies did we win under them two?

[Chakan]

Why what trophies did we win under them two?

Mistep to be true why did I think we won a trophy under them? Very confused today.

Well we've won 1 under F&G I guess, more than them.

[Day1983]

Mistep to be true why did I think we won a trophy under them? Very confused today.

Well we've won 1 under F&G I guess, more than them.

Haha that's true.

[Eeyore]

And since they are not let's sack them and hire much richer owners...oh, wait, that's not how it works.

Or just do what Torres said.

I don’t think it’s so important the owners are in England, in Liverpool,” he says. “What I think is important is that they put someone in charge who is in Liverpool — the right person who understands what Liverpool means. I am sure most owners have many businesses. The only thing they have to do in football is give the money that you need to compete with others. Whatever name you want — the president or the sporting director — they need to understand Liverpool, the feelings. He has to listen to the fans and listen to the players and do a job that is up to the level of the club, meeting the standards that have been set through history.

“You need someone there who understands what Liverpool is, because for the owners it is just a business and without someone telling them the right information it will fail. OK, if they are in Liverpool it will help them but if they are not, put someone in charge who is there and understands football and the club.”

[Eeyore]

Mistep to be true why did I think we won a trophy under them? Very confused today.

Well we've won 1 under F&G I guess, more than them.

 

[Chakan]

Told ya!

[Eeyore]

Oh, so Sterling was, at 14/15 what are you basing him being one of the best talents in the world on, or Brewster? Seeing as how they are the sort of player you picked out as the we don't sign anymore. Why those two but not the others basically?

For Sterlings age group yes absolutely. I know you watch the under age teams mate and for me he was head and shoulders above his peers week in week out. As for Brewster it is just a personal opinion, he may well flop but for me he has got a lot of the raw ingredients needed to make it.

[RedSince86]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here.

Just seen on Reddit tha thas come from multiple sources in Spain that Real Madrid turned down a 50 million euro bid from us recently for Marco Asensio.

Looks promising for the summer window that we are sounding out players already to get business done and willing to spend big.

[Samie]

I have no idea what some of you are on about. We're going to win the World Cup next year anyway.

[Billy The Kid]

What contrary factual evidence.

You are passing other people's opinions of as fact and then using it as a stick to beat me with.

Ok. Never mind Al

As you were

[Johnny Foreigner]

Aye but again, none of that really makes sense.

Show a willingness to win something? What does that even mean? Willing to win something? They were literally a slip away from being the owners to bring us the league title, with players signed under the scouts and DOFs they hired and a manager they hired. They were one good second half away from winning the Europa League and CL qualification with players signed under their scouts and DOFs they hired and a manager they hired. These are small margins. This is football, it happens. It doesn't make them terrible, unsuccessful, awful owners. We were a miraculous save from Dudek and a miraculous goal from Gerrard away from winning naff all under Rafa. We were also a miraculous nobody from Italy away from winning the title under Rafa as well, under G&H. 'Winning things' isn't really down to the owners at the end of the day. The finals we've gotten to and close runs are from a position FSG have put us in by investing in those very managers and players. That's a fact.

A squad to compete on several fronts is what we saw last season, but again you'll make excuses that actually it wasn't competing on several fronts and that was just down to the manager. And them signing the manager isn't on them, or something.

Honestly, a bit of balance would be good. You cherry pick things which you feel they should do, like you have any remote idea of what it takes to own and run a sporting institution. And when they don't meet your ideas, you want open letters and apologies. Its not happening.

American businessmen wants results, not excuses..  But that's normally what they say when the business climate is good...

And what parts of running and owning a sports instituion is impossible to have an opinion on ? I assume you have a working knowledge of that since you present it as s fact

[DangerScouse]

....when they hired a DOF who then proceeded to make pretty bizarre signings which in no way kept with the style of play we were playing, which then led to dreadful form, the sacking of a legend, and mistakes which they have openly admitted they made? I don't think theres anyone who can say they think they were making great decisions early on.

The difference is that they're making, from the outside, much better decisions now. Signing better players, hiring better managers, using money more wisely.

Maybe go for another angle mate, you've chucked that one out before and it kind of sank there too.

Nothing sank. Just pointing it out that you're hypocrite. Happy to call the owners out yourself in the past, but critical and dismissive of those that do so now.

[Eeyore]

Aye but again, none of that really makes sense.

Show a willingness to win something? What does that even mean? Willing to win something? They were literally a slip away from being the owners to bring us the league title, with players signed under the scouts and DOFs they hired and a manager they hired.

You are just rewriting history there Eel.

Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Flanagan, Lucas, Gerrard and Sterling made 202 League appearances between them in 13-14 so to try and portray it as players signed and scouted by FSG is laughable.