Author Topic: SoccerManager - Looking for new managers (Read 590709 times)

Card Cheat · « **Reply #6400 on:** April 22, 2017, 05:15:40 pm »

Quote from: Klippity Klopp on April 22, 2017, 02:19:30 pm

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6401 on:** April 22, 2017, 05:48:39 pm »

LiamG · « **Reply #6402 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:57:13 am »

Tough one to call to be fair

Lawnmowerman · « **Reply #6403 on:** April 23, 2017, 08:34:40 am »

Toughie indeed. I suppose if indeed as said by Klippity that KL insisted on Rui Pedro from a previous deal and got him, then if 4 insisted on Draxler then he too should get him. But if indeed as said by KL that Klippity was asked to sign Draxler and held off and didn't bother before quitting, then KL would have a case for reneging on the deal as Klippity had ample time to get his house in order but just didn't bother

I hate these agreed deals down the line and knew one day this shit would happen. I would always be on the side of an agreed deal happening regardless though.

Let's put it to a poll!! 7 days, the world decides!! oooh this gone be fun!! poll on top of page

RK7 · « **Reply #6404 on:** April 23, 2017, 08:54:50 am »

Trade wars....haha

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6405 on:** April 23, 2017, 09:01:56 am »

Haha I'm not giving up Draxler now, if he'd wanted him then he could've taken him when he was Juve manager. I quoted the post where I told him the TB was up a few posts up.

Not sure why he's bringing Rui Pedro into this either, his TB wasn't up when the previous Juve manager (J Ryan) handed over the reigns to Klippity, and I was asked to agree that I'd go through with the rest of that deal with Klippity, which I did. Whereas Draxler's TB had already been up for a week when Klippity jumped ship and nothing was agreed with Vishwa.

It seems to me like the only loser in this story is Klippity. Vishwa ended up with that awesome Juve squad that wasn't good enough for Klippity, and I got hang on to Draxler. While Klippity flips his top, loses the Juve squad, then comes back with his tail between his legs to take over at Zenit

Lawnmowerman · « **Reply #6406 on:** April 23, 2017, 12:18:34 pm »

I do think Klipptiy rejoined at Zenit just to keep an eye on and ambush KL with this down the line

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6407 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:10:35 pm »

Fuck it, if the majority thinks Draxler should be at Juve then bid away Vishwa. I’m not really sure everyone who voted has understood what went down, but I don’t want people thinking I stole a player. Done loads of trades in this world and never screwed anyone over, it’s just a game after all. Traded my way up to Draxler and I’ll do it again. I don’t really need De Sciglio any more so you can give him to Atletico or Leverkusen if either of them wants him.

Klippity’s a twat though, he’s done nothing but stir up drama for no reason since he joined. No surprise he was banned from RAWK on his previous account.

Lawnmowerman · « **Reply #6408 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:13:05 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 02:10:35 pm

Fuck it, if the majority thinks Draxler should be at Juve then bid away Vishwa. I’m not really sure everyone who voted has understood what went down, but I don’t want people thinking I stole a player. Done loads of trades in this world and never screwed anyone over, it’s just a game after all. Traded my way up to Draxler and I’ll do it again. I don’t really need De Sciglio any more so you can give him to Atletico or Leverkusen if either of them wants him.

Klippity’s a twat though, he’s done nothing but stir up drama for no reason since he joined. No surprise he was banned from RAWK on his previous account.

Votings not done for 7 days yet if you're going by that!!

RK7 · « **Reply #6409 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:13:43 pm »

You were never going to win a vote.

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6410 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:26:32 pm »

How many more votes are we expecting though? There are only 15 or so managers in the world and some of them aren't even on here. Doesn't seem like Klippity has been online today either, so chalk another one up for Juve

I'm not interesting in creating a big deal out of this which was why I stopped replying yesterday. I'd rather give up Draxler than have people thinking I'm a crook.

Betty Blue · « **Reply #6411 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:30:00 pm »

I think all this proves why advance deals should be announced in here. That way there can never really be any disagreements, as everyone will know the ins and outs of the deal to come. If both managers want to pull out of said deal then they can agree to it in-thread. But otherwise we should all be held to the deal we agreed to.

This case is extremely complicated and I'm not sure I even quite understand what the whole deal involved. Where does De Sciglio come into this? Had it all been open from the outset probably none of this fall out would've even happened.

Lawnmowerman · « **Reply #6412 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:33:09 pm »

The votings only a buzz. Anyone could pop in and vote.

if people in the gameworld said they voted it would be a diff story i suppose

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6413 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:44:40 pm »

Quote from: Betty Blue on April 23, 2017, 02:30:00 pm

I think all this proves why advance deals should be announced in here. That way there can never really be any disagreements, as everyone will know the ins and outs of the deal to come. If both managers want to pull out of said deal then they can agree to it in-thread. But otherwise we should all be held to the deal we agreed to.

This case is extremely complicated and I'm not sure I even quite understand what the whole deal involved. Where does De Sciglio come into this? Had it all been open from the outset probably none of this fall out would've even happened.

It was all open from the outset though, I don't think anyone's disputing whether the deal was agreed or not. It was. But Klippity left Juve without pushing the deal through, so I assumed it was off.

The question is, when Vishwa takes over Juve a couple days later, is the trade back on again? I don't think it should be, but I can see why it's a grey area.

Lawnmowerman · « **Reply #6414 on:** April 23, 2017, 02:53:05 pm »

All this shite gets saved if deals are made as soon as the players ban is up. Not sure what Klippity was thinking feeling there wasn't a timeframe for it to go through. It would be alright if he was asked to hold off on the transfer in the event of an injury list or relagation battle and Drax was needed

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6415 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:00:21 pm »

Quote from: Lawnmowerman on April 23, 2017, 02:53:05 pm

All this shite gets saved if deals are made as soon as the players ban is up. Not sure what Klippity was thinking feeling there wasn't a timeframe for it to go through. It would be alright if he was asked to hold off on the transfer in the event of an injury list or relagation battle and Drax was needed

I genuinely don't know why I didn't bid for him.

I knew he was my player and remember KL announced it in here that his TB was up.

I just forgot, but my heart wasn't in Juve but that stage, I was focusing on Leeds.

Time frame is irrelevant IMO. If he's a Juve player, he's a Juve player. The deal is agreed. Just like KL asking for Rui Pedro weeks after his TB was up.

Betty Blue · « **Reply #6416 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:03:08 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 02:44:40 pm

It was all open from the outset though, I don't think anyone's disputing whether the deal was agreed or not. It was. But Klippity left Juve without pushing the deal through, so I assumed it was off.

The question is, when Vishwa takes over Juve a couple days later, is the trade back on again? I don't think it should be, but I can see why it's a grey area.

I would still like all deals to be made open and transparent.

On the issue at hand, excuse me for a moment while I play devil's advocate. If we take a real life example of a pre-agreed transfer... Liverpool summer 2004. Houllier (the club?) had already agreed a deal to sign Djibril Cisse from Auxerre for £14m. However, Benitez took over before the deal was completed and yet the transfer still went through. The change of manager made no difference, because the deal was made with the club. Perhaps it could've been cancelled if Rafa decided he didn't want him, but the selling club couldn't have voided the deal from my knowledge.

Now, SM isn't real life football, so maybe this doesn't apply. But I just wanted to throw this out there. Personally, I'm not sure what should happen because I'm quite confused by the whole thing.

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6417 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:05:06 pm »

Quote from: Betty Blue on April 23, 2017, 04:03:08 pm

I'm not sure what should happen because I'm quite confused by the whole thing.

How are you confused Betty? Both KL & I are in agreement of what happened.

It is just whether Draxler should stay or go or in the other two should be returned.

I was thinking of that Cisse example yesterday as well.

RK7 · « **Reply #6418 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:05:41 pm »

The current Juve manager is very quiet on this, does he even want him?

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6419 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:08:38 pm »

Quote from: RK7 on April 23, 2017, 04:05:41 pm

The current Juve manager is very quiet on this, does he even want him?

He asked KL for him the other day I believe.

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6420 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:09:06 pm »

Quote from: Betty Blue on April 23, 2017, 04:03:08 pm

I would still like all deals to be made open and transparent.

This makes sense.

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6421 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:20:24 pm »

Quote from: Klippity Klopp on April 23, 2017, 04:08:38 pm

He asked KL for him the other day I believe.

He asked me what was up because you went whispering into his ear stirring things up as usual.

If Houllier had provisionally agreed that Cisse deal, but then gone on a loony rant about how unfair the Premier League is and resigned before finalising the deal then Auxerre/Rafa wouldn't have been bound by anything.

But like I said, I can't be arsed making an issue out of this, so if Vishwa wants him then he can have him.

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6422 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:20:28 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 09:01:56 am

Not sure why he's bringing Rui Pedro into this either, his TB wasn't up when the previous Juve manager (J Ryan) handed over the reigns to Klippity, and I was asked to agree that I'd go through with the rest of that deal with Klippity, which I did. Whereas Draxler's TB had already been up for a week when Klippity jumped ship and nothing was agreed with Vishwa.

It seems to me like the only loser in this story is Klippity. Vishwa ended up with that awesome Juve squad that wasn't good enough for Klippity, and I got hang on to Draxler. While Klippity flips his top, loses the Juve squad, then comes back with his tail between his legs to take over at Zenit

I didn't want to be the Juve manager, hence quiting - not sure why I'm a loser here?! I didn't want to break up that team, so took on one which wasn't established that I could build. People said I lacked patience to build a young team - I'm doing it. It is nice seeing Vishwa getting a decent squad to take over. I'm just trying to see him get the players he is due, as you have taken two from that deal but are now not backing up your promise to fulfil that deal, which is very shady.

Re: Rui Pedro. You forgot about him, like I did with Draxler. I put Rui Pedro on the market and you sent me a PM on here saying he was your player from the previous Lallana deal. I said fair enough and straight away sold him to you. Seems now it is Draxler you are singing a different hymn sheet!

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6423 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:23:36 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 04:20:24 pm

But like I said, I can't be arsed making an issue out of this, so if Vishwa wants him then he can have him.

Well that's the first time you have said that.

Before you said you were not giving up on Draxler etc.

Justice prevails.

I said to him make sure he gets Draxler, yes. As he is a Juve player.

Anyway let's move on. Peace, love etc.

More importantly, let's hope LFC win!

Card Cheat · « **Reply #6424 on:** April 23, 2017, 04:31:52 pm »

I don't think the Cisse example is appropriate. That's a real world deal where the club still has staff in place between managerial comings and goings. SM is just one person. Unless KK appointed some mates in unofficial 'advisory' capacities. I know at Shaktar my dog is Master of Transfers and Do-do's and is doing a thoroughly good if haphazard job. Klippity forgot about Draxler then quit before remembering, tough shit in my book. If anything I think there's a bigger argument for Draxler going to Zenit than Juve. Though he should stay at PSV imo. KK fucked up and should take it on the chin.

Lawnmowerman · « **Reply #6425 on:** April 23, 2017, 06:35:31 pm »

Quote from: Klippity Klopp on April 23, 2017, 04:00:21 pm

Time frame is irrelevant IMO. If he's a Juve player, he's a Juve player. The deal is agreed.

Time frame matters as it's a player sitting in another squad eating up wages and taking up a squad cap space. He's technically still a psv player until you pull the trigger

Quote from: Klippity Klopp on April 23, 2017, 04:00:21 pm

Just like KL asking for Rui Pedro weeks after his TB was up.

there seems to be confusion between the two of you on this issue, and it's the heart of the matter for me for my 'yes' vote. If that's true, i thought well what's good for the goose an all, but KL seems to think that Rui Pedro was TB'd when you took over and he waited

Betty Blue · « **Reply #6426 on:** April 23, 2017, 06:38:13 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 04:20:24 pm

If Houllier had provisionally agreed that Cisse deal, but then gone on a loony rant about how unfair the Premier League is and resigned before finalising the deal then Auxerre/Rafa wouldn't have been bound by anything.

My main issue with this line of thinking is that Juve had already essentially finalised the deal and paid for Draxler by sending over two players. Imagine if it turned out Parry had already wired £14m to Auxerre and those snail eating fuckers pulled the plug on it with our cash in hand, all because Houllier had gone loony and we'd switched managers. You and I have actually been talking about a Draxler deal, so this hurts me as much as anyone, but I think if the cited example with Rui Pedro is true KK is right...for once! Sorry to say that, because you're a mate. But I'm just going off all the info posted in here.

Vishwa Atma · « **Reply #6427 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:08:27 pm »

Can either KingLuis or KK tell me what is the exact deal that is suppose to go down? How much I have to bid and all that if this deal is going through? I am so confused!!

RK7 · « **Reply #6428 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:16:34 pm »

Quote from: Vishwa Atma on April 23, 2017, 07:08:27 pm

Can either KingLuis or KK tell me what is the exact deal that is suppose to go down? How much I have to bid and all that if this deal is going through? I am so confused!!

Apparently you just bid the cash value of Draxler. No way would I have given him up though.

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6429 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:20:28 pm »

Rui Pedro was still transfer banned when J Ryan handed over Juve to Klippity. Before handing the club over, J Ryan wanted me to agree that I'd still go through with that trade, so I gave Klippity my word that I would.

I'm not really sure how that's comparable to Klippity having a week or so to bid for Draxler, not doing so, then resigning. At that point there was a void, no Juve manager at all. Surely the trade's off at that point? What would've happened if we'd had a free for all, would I have had to make Draxler available too? Vishwa didn't take over until a day or two later. It's a weird situation which I benefitted from without screwing anyone, and I'm not really sure why that bothers Klippity so much.

It seems fairly clear to me, but like I said I have no interest in making a big deal over Julian Draxler on Soccer Manager

If Vishwa wants him then he can have him.

Betty Blue · « **Reply #6430 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:27:00 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 07:20:28 pm

Rui Pedro was still transfer banned when J Ryan handed over Juve to Klippity. Before handing the club over, J Ryan wanted me to agree that I'd still go through with that trade, so I gave Klippity my word that I would.

I'm not really sure how that's comparable to Klippity having a week or so to bid for Draxler, not doing so, then resigning. At that point there was a void, no Juve manager at all. Surely the trade's off at that point? What would've happened if we'd had a free for all, would I have had to make Draxler available too? Vishwa didn't take over until a day or two later. It's a weird situation which I benefitted from without screwing anyone, and I'm not really sure why that bothers Klippity so much.

It seems fairly clear to me, but like I said I have no interest in making a big deal over Julian Draxler on Soccer Manager If Vishwa wants him then he can have him.

This is a good point as well. There appear to be two camps -

Those who believe a deal is with the manager and those who believe a deal is with the club.

With two further splinter groups of -

Those who believe a deal is not final until all parts have been transferred over to said club and those who believe the deal is finalized once any part of the deal has taken place.

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6431 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:36:58 pm »

Quote from: Card Cheat on April 23, 2017, 04:31:52 pm

Klippity forgot about Draxler then quit before remembering, tough shit in my book. If anything I think there's a bigger argument for Draxler going to Zenit than Juve. Though he should stay at PSV imo. KK fucked up and should take it on the chin.

I didn't bid. I knew he was a Juve player. I just didn't bid, just like KL didn't with Pedro.

I gave him Pedro, no questions asked. Draxler is a Juve player. KL has taken two Juve players and said he'll give Draxler. He hasn't and it is very shady.

Quote from: Lawnmowerman on April 23, 2017, 06:35:31 pm

Time frame matters as it's a player sitting in another squad eating up wages and taking up a squad cap space. He's technically still a psv player until you pull the trigger there seems to be confusion between the two of you on this issue, and it's the heart of the matter for me for my 'yes' vote. If that's true, i thought well what's good for the goose an all, but KL seems to think that Rui Pedro was TB'd when you took over and he waited

He might have eaten up wages. But KL also was playing him and didn't remind me to transfer him.

The Pedro example is exactly like Draxler. Yes he was TB'd when I took over. KL forgot about him and when I put him on the market only then did he bid for him. Which I of course I approved, as I respect deals which have taken place.

We were talking the other week about helping new managers. Being snide and keeping hold of Draxler in this case is hardly a good example is it of helping new managers join the world.

Quote from: Betty Blue on April 23, 2017, 06:38:13 pm

My main issue with this line of thinking is that Juve had already essentially finalised the deal and paid for Draxler by sending over two players.

Correct

but I think if the cited example with Rui Pedro is true

It is.

is right...for once!

Oi.

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 07:20:28 pm

Rui Pedro was still transfer banned when J Ryan handed over Juve to Klippity. Before handing the club over, J Ryan wanted me to agree that I'd still go through with that trade, so I gave Klippity my word that I would.

Correct

I'm not really sure how that's comparable to Klippity having a week or so to bid for Draxler, not doing so, then resigning.

I had given you two Juve players, so the deal was agreed. Also with Pedro, you forgot and bid after a week of his TB.

Amazing the lengths people will go to gain an advantage.

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6432 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:41:02 pm »

You were still the Juve manager when I bid for Pedro, can't you see the difference?

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6433 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:41:54 pm »

Quote from: Betty Blue on April 23, 2017, 07:27:00 pm

This is a good point as well. There appear to be two camps -

Those who believe a deal is with the manager and those who believe a deal is with the club.

Draxler comes to Zenit then and I'll transfer him straight to Juve.

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6434 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:43:28 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 07:41:02 pm

You were still the Juve manager when I bid for Pedro, can't you see the difference?

As I said if the deal is off, transfer the other two players back to Juve then.

You have taken two players and are trying to pull a fast one, on a new manager.

It is wrong and against the spirit of the game IMO.

Vishwa Atma · « **Reply #6435 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:45:19 pm »

This is getting muddled now.... I would like Draxler but only if the deal is still suppose to stand. That is why I didnt push for it when KL told me he had changed your mind regarding hi.. Personally I can see both KingLuis and KK's points... But I am not sure what is the right thing to do in this case...

Klippity Klopp · « **Reply #6436 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:48:47 pm »

Quote from: Vishwa Atma on April 23, 2017, 07:45:19 pm

This is getting muddled now.... I would like Draxler but only if the deal is still suppose to stand. That is why I didnt push for it when KL told me he had changed your mind regarding hi.. Personally I can see both KingLuis and KK's points... But I am not sure what is the right thing to do in this case...

I didn't say I had changed his mind. I said KL said he would let you have him for cash, if you want him as he should be a Juve player.

Either bid for him and get him or don't.

I wish I didn't bother trying to do the right thing and help. If you can see his side of the story, which is bonkers - then you don't deserve him anyway.

RK7 · « **Reply #6437 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:48:52 pm »

Quote from: Klippity Klopp on April 23, 2017, 07:43:28 pm

As I said if the deal is off, transfer the other two players back to Juve then.

You have taken two players and are trying to pull a fast one, on a new manager.

It is wrong and against the spirit of the game IMO.

Did Vishwa take over Juve knowing Draxler was owed or did you tell him after he checked out the squad and took over?

Betty Blue · « **Reply #6438 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:49:16 pm »

Quote from: KingLuis10 on April 23, 2017, 07:41:02 pm

You were still the Juve manager when I bid for Pedro, can't you see the difference?

But the original deal was with a different manager? Doesn't this make it exactly the same issue? (don't shoot the messenger)

KingLuis10 · « **Reply #6439 on:** April 23, 2017, 07:49:48 pm »

You asked me to take those players early because you were having trouble with the 40 cap

In fact one of the players I had to sell to make room for Gagliardini was Brahim Diaz, who's now at Zenit. Going by your reasoning, would you also have to sell him back to me? Funny that you're not mentioning Embolo either, who you got up front for De Sciglio.

But all of that became irrelevant as soon as you resigned anyway. You can't pull a quick one on a new manager when there's no new manager.