Topic: Brexit - doesn't really seem to be a very good idea does it? (*)

[oldfordie]

Long list of leave Lies.
http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

[CornerFlag]

Michael Heseltine vowing to go against the government when the Bill passes through the Lords.  Good stuff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39094090

Senior Tory Lord Heseltine has said he will rebel against the government when peers debate the bill giving Theresa May the authority to trigger Brexit.

He says he will support an opposition amendment in the House of Lords demanding MPs get a meaningful vote on the deal reached with the EU.

Writing in the Mail on Sunday, he denies this would be a "confrontation".

Lord Heseltine said it aimed to ensure the Commons "can exercise its authority over the defining issue of our time".

Last week peers gave an unopposed second reading to the draft legislation on Brexit.

More than 180 members spoke during a two-day debate, which lasted nearly 20 hours.

MPs have already backed the proposed law, authorising Prime Minister Theresa May to inform the EU of the UK's intention to leave.

Opposition peers want to amend the bill at a later date to guarantee the rights of EU citizens in Britain and the role of Parliament in scrutinising the process.

As the government does not have a majority in the Lords, it is vulnerable to being outvoted if opposition peers - including Labour's 202 and the 102 Lib Dems - join forces.

Mrs May has said she wants to invoke Article 50 of the 2009 Lisbon Treaty - the formal two-year mechanism by which a member state must leave the EU - by the end of March, and the government has warned the House of Lords not to frustrate the process.

Lord Heseltine writes: "The fightback starts here. My opponents will argue that the people have spoken, the [Brexit] mandate secured and the future cast. My experience stands against this argument".

The former deputy prime minister, whose leadership challenge to Margaret Thatcher helped trigger her exit from Number 10 in 1990, campaigned for Remain in the run-up to the referendum.

He has been a supporter of the EU within the Conservative Party and backed the idea of the UK joining the single currency.

Nicknamed "Tarzan", the blond-haired, centrist straight-talker played a role in British politics for decades and late last year responded to questions over an altercation with his mother's Alsatian.

[ShakaHislop]

Those who think it's right or wrong to leave the EU neck and neck at 45%, according to YouGov. Nice to know May's speeches aren't weaving a spell on all.

[Thush]

Those who think it's right or wrong to leave the EU neck and neck at 45%, according to YouGov. Nice to know May's speeches aren't weaving a spell on all.

That's a bit surprising. I thought the "Brexit Wrong" figures would show a gradual increase, but they're basically static.

[killer-heels]

That's a bit surprising. I thought the "Brexit Wrong" figures would show a gradual increase, but they're basically static.

What exactly has happened since June 23rd that would change peoples mind?

[zero zero]

What exactly has happened since June 23rd that would change peoples mind?

Corbyn has come out openly for Brexit

[Lfsea]

That's a bit surprising. I thought the "Brexit Wrong" figures would show a gradual increase, but they're basically static.

I don't think it will change much as long as the sun keeps rising in the East every morning, in all honesty. It really feels like a perfectly fractured society we live in today with both sides feeling similar levels of antipathy towards one another. It's very sad.

[ShakaHislop]

That's a bit surprising. I thought the "Brexit Wrong" figures would show a gradual increase, but they're basically static.

I think the Brexit wrong figures are quite good considering the lack of political opposition there has been to the "will of the people" over the past 8 months, and how the economy (on the surface) has held up since the vote.

[Libertine]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

[killer-heels]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

Good news. Fuck them.

[Trump's tiny tiny hands]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

TO THE COMMENTS SECTION

[Alan_X]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

Yeah but at least they'll be able to choose where they spend their £6m a year themselves unlike before...

[nick_8589]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

It does seem rude to enjoy other people's misfortunes but, when they ask for it.... that's fantastic 😂

Hey at least that money won't be going to "dem moslem alqieeda Isis refugees" 👍 Well played morons, well played, that'll show those polish builders and those Slovakian cleaners what for.

Look on the bright side  there won't be a problem with Cornish house prices being unaffordable soon.

[oldfordie]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

Ohh, that's embarrassing, can hardly bring up Johnsons promise of not losing funding as everyone will look at them as plonkers. best saying nothing and hope nobody brings it up.

Cornwall Council said it will be reviewing its current list of economic development projects when more detail is known.

[Red-Soldier]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

They were told what would happen.

Some of the comments on that page are funny.

They're one of poorest areas in the UK that rely heavily on EU funding, the stupid fuckers!!!

[TheShanklyGates]

Current Cornwall EU funding: £60 million a year. Government offer: £18M over 3 years (£6M a year).

Wow, never saw that coming..... 

https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/public-sector-news-categories/2017/02/council-shock-at-growth-deal-announcement/

The stupid fuckers were told and voted leave anyway.

They've made their bed, now they can lie in it.

[Conocinico]

This latest award is on top of the £60.2 million of Growth Deals funding already awarded to Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership and follows £8 million Coastal Community funding for 10 regeneration projects.

[TheShanklyGates]

This latest award is on top of the £60.2 million of Growth Deals funding already awarded to Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly Local Enterprise Partnership and follows £8 million Coastal Community funding for 10 regeneration projects.

https://www.cioslep.com/funding-streams/growth-deal-2

You're talking about the old growth deals (1&2). The news article being discussed in this thread is the outcome of their growth deal 3 application where they asked for £127m and got £18m. The money from the EU was in addition to the growth deal money from the UK government and they're now losing that entirely and getting much less from the UK government than they asked for.

[Conocinico]

The money from the EU was in addition to the growth deal money from the UK government and they're now losing that entirely and getting much less from the UK government than they asked for.

When will the EU money be lost? 2020? And these Growth Deals add up to £342 million over five years ending in I think 2019, so what has Brexit got to do with this?

[Craig S]

When will the EU money be lost? 2020? And these Growth Deals add up to £342 million over five years ending in I think 2019, so what has Brexit got to do with this?

Maybe the council saying this:

falls far short, says the Council, of the investment required if Government is going to ensure that Cornwall does not lose out when European funding ceases as a result of the UK leaving the EU

I'm sure you know better than the council though.

[TheShanklyGates]

When will the EU money be lost? 2020? And these Growth Deals add up to £342 million over five years ending in I think 2019, so what has Brexit got to do with this?

The EU money is already stopping it would seem.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/european-regional-development-fund-erdf-suspends-treasury-brexit-eu-referendum-a7154526.html

So they're losing £60m a year and getting £6m a year from the UK government. Has quite a lot to do with Brexit if you ask me.

[killer-heels]

When will the EU money be lost? 2020? And these Growth Deals add up to £342 million over five years ending in I think 2019, so what has Brexit got to do with this?

Its an indication of the level of investment Cornwall can look forward to. There is absolutely no way the treasury will fund areas like this in the same way. Councils and local government know the direction of travel here.

Its all good to watch though. I am still waiting in hope for the Nissan exodus.

[Conocinico]

The EU money is already stopping it would seem.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/european-regional-development-fund-erdf-suspends-treasury-brexit-eu-referendum-a7154526.html

So they're losing £60m a year and getting £6m a year from the UK government. Has quite a lot to do with Brexit if you ask me.

In that link you posted, under Growth Deal 3, there's information on the EU Growth plan and it states.

The Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Growth Programme is open for business and the first projects have started to be contracted. This European Programme will run until 2020 and is worth around 600 million euros.

They secured £5,400,000 of EU funding 7 days ago: https://www.cioslep.com/news/lep-press-releases/article/147/2017/02/20/european-investment-for-west-cornwall-transport-hub

[Conocinico]

Its an indication of the level of investment Cornwall can look forward to. There is absolutely no way the treasury will fund areas like this in the same way. Councils and local government know the direction of travel here.

No doubt the Tories will under fund regions and services. That's what they do.

[TheShanklyGates]

In that link you posted under Growth Deal 3 there's information on the EU Growth plan and it states.

They secured £5,400,000 of EU funding 3 days ago: https://www.cioslep.com/news/lep-press-releases/article/147/2017/02/20/european-investment-for-west-cornwall-transport-hub

Fair enough. Just another example of something they won't have access to post Brexit mind. You're kidding yourself if you think the UK government will make up the shortfall in these poorer areas of the country.

No doubt the Tories will under fund regions and services. That's what they do.

And people voted for Brexit knowing this, quite incredible really.

[Red-Soldier]

Fair enough. Just another example of something they won't have access to post Brexit mind. You're kidding yourself if you think the UK government will make up the shortfall in these poorer areas of the country.

And people voted for Brexit knowing this, quite incredible really.

Exactly, stupidity on a monumental scale!!!

[Libertine]

If only....

[Zeb]

John Major out of fucks to give about this too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/27/john-major-attacks-government-over-approach-to-brexit

"To those who wish to see us adapt to a deregulated, low-tax enterprise economy – it is an attractive option, and wholly consistent with their philosophy.

"However, it has worrying implications for public services such as the NHS – and for the vulnerable who, I’m delighted to say, the Government has pledged to help …. and I know how personally committed the Prime Minister is to this.

"So there is a choice to be made, a price to be paid;  we cannot move to a radical enterprise economy without moving away from a welfare state.  Such a direction of policy, once understood by the public, would never command support.  It would make all previous rows over social policy seem a minor distraction."

And more.

[oldfordie]

John Major out of fucks to give about this too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/27/john-major-attacks-government-over-approach-to-brexit

And more.

Certainly is and he's spot on.

Major also spoke out in defence of remain campaigners and MPs, who have been criticised and accused of trying to thwart “the will of the people” for voicing their doubts about the consequences of Brexit.

“Freedom of speech is absolute in our country,” he said. “It’s not arrogant or brazen or elitist, or remotely delusional to express concern about our future after Brexit. Nor, by doing so, is this group undermining the will of the people; they are the people. Shouting down their legitimate comment is against all our traditions of tolerance. It does nothing to inform and everything to demean – and it is time it stopped.”

He was speaking as peers debate the article 50 bill in the House of Lords, where it is going through its committee stage, with the government seeking to defeat a series of amendments on issues including the status of EU nationals living in the UK and the need for a meaningful parliamentary vote at the end of the negotiations.

[CornerFlag]

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/836246935363276801

"On Friday, Corbyn said he'd fight Tories on Brexit. Today, his party is whipping Labour peers against backing an Article 50 amendment."

Spineless as this first-half performance.

[Libertine]

BMW considers making electric Mini outside UK due to Brexit worries

Suggestion that carmaker could produce vehicle in Germany instead of Oxford comes amid fears over Vauxhall’s future.

The new electric Mini could be made in Germany rather than the UK because of the uncertainty caused by Brexit.

Most Minis are manufactured at its plant in Oxford, one of the biggest factories in the country, but BMW, the owner of the brand, is considering making the electric version of the car in Germany.

If BMW decides to make the Mini outside of Britain then it would be a major blow to the government. Greg Clark, the business secretary, wants to put electric vehicles and battery technology at the heart of the UK’s industrial strategy, describing the sector as an “emblematic area of focus”.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/27/bmw-electric-mini-germany-uk-brexit-germany-oxford

Emblematic.....

[Trada]

Brexit: Nissan may 'adjust' its UK business, potentially putting 7,000 jobs at risk

Despite assurances given in October that Japanese car manufacturer would continue with plans to invest in Sunderland plant after EU exit

Nissan said it may “adjust” its business in the UK, depending on how Brexit turns out, potentially jeopardising 7,000 jobs at its Sunderland plant.

On Tuesday, Nissan senior vice-president Colin Lawther told MPs that Nissan would “constantly review” its decision in the light of any changes to its ability to trade with the EU after Brexit.

The news comes despite assurances given by chief executive Carlos Ghosn in October that the Japanese car manufacturer would continue with plans to invest in production of two of its flagship models at its Sunderland plant.

That announcement followed a controversial and secretive deal struck between Nissan and Business Secretary Greg Clarke in which he apparently reassured Nissan boss Carlos Ghosn that ministers would take steps to ensure the company would not be negatively affected by Brexit.

Mr Lawther told the Commons International Trade Committee that Nissan wanted Britain's relations with the EU to “stay as they are”, a scenario which seems increasingly unlikely in light of Prime Minister Theresa May’s stated intention to remove the UK from the single market and her comments in January that “no trade deal is better than a bad trade deal” for Britain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-nissan-uk-business-jobs-7000-employees-car-plant-sunderland-a7603721.html

[Danny Boys Dad]

This is beyond stupid now

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-david-davis-cabinet-back-up-plan-uk-leave-eu-trade-deal-wto-a7603911.html

They are driving us over a cliff and all they can think of to say is 'brace yourselves'.

All aided and abetted by Labour.

[The Gulleysucker]

They are driving us over a cliff and all they can think of to say is 'brace yourselves'.

There was a cartoon doing the rounds the other day that probably sums it up...

[TravisBickle]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/john-majors-brexit-speech-full-transcript/

 Transcript of Major's speech there for anyone who's arsed.

 Interestingly, I've seen very few people counter anything he says without claiming he doesn't have a right to speak on the subject or simply accuse him of being an "anti democratic traitor!!!1!"

 Dark fucking days when you're drawing hope from the interventions of Clarke, Heseltine and Major.

[Zeb]

Good to read it. Thanks for posting. This bit stood out again to me.

I am no longer in politics. I have absolutely no wish to re-enter it in any capacity. I don’t seek publicity – more often than not, I shy away from it.

But I can’t ignore what I learned in Government. Nor can I forget the people who voted to leave Europe in the belief it might improve their lives. If events go badly, their expectations will not be met, and whole communities will be worse off. The particular fear I have is that those most likely to be hurt will be those least able to protect themselves.

Would do the comparison but that horse is long dead even if it deserves every single beating it still gets. It's not likely to stiffen the spines of the Tories who know better either. But this is where we are. Former PMs trying to highlight the obvious to current politicians determined to try and shape reality to their preconceived beliefs.

[Priest078]

The Lords have dared vote for an amendment, Duncan Smith ain't happy.

[Red-Soldier]

At least some people have balls and a conscience:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/01/lords-defeat-government-over-rights-of-eu-citizens-in-uk-brexit-bill

Peers who backed an amendment to the Brexit bill to guarantee the rights of EU citizens have urged Conservative MPs in the House of Commons to support the change when the bill returns.

Theresa May’s government has vowed to overturn a demand by the House of Lords to guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in the UK within three months of article 50 being triggered.

However, one crossbench peer who backed the bill said she was hopeful that Tory rebels would decide to defy the whip “on the basis of morality and principle” when the bill is sent back to the House of Commons with the amendment.

[PaulF]

Already the facebook massive are whinging that an UNELECTED elite that have ignore successions of governments leaking away power to Europe are now thwarting the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Time to drain the swamp apparently.

Don't know where to begin with the fuckwits.
(I actually believe there are serious problems with the EU and am not 100% remain. But the attitude of the vociferous leavers does my nut in)

[Priest078]

Already the facebook massive are whinging that an UNELECTED elite that have ignore successions of governments leaking away power to Europe are now thwarting the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Time to drain the swamp apparently.

Don't know where to begin with the fuckwits.
(I actually believe there are serious problems with the EU and am not 100% remain. But the attitude of the vociferous leavers does my nut in)

They will all be moaning nobody stopped it in 5 years when they are poor as church mice