Topic: A Philippe Coutinho thread - out of the woodwork they come, clockwork.

[wellred82]

Are we going to appeal the sending off? That 1st yellow looked iffy.

[rowan_d]

Are we going to appeal the sending off? That 1st yellow looked iffy.

Can't appeal 2 yellows anyway

[mrantarctica]

Lack of runners in the team who has one of the best through ball passers in the league, crazy.

There are plenty who can run, and with significant pace - Ibe, Markovic, Ings, Moreno, Clyne, Henderson, Milner, Origi ... unfortunately, BR doesn't seem to be able to get them to do it on a regular basis, or doesn't start these players often enough.

[ThePoolMan]

There are plenty who can run, and with significant pace - Ibe, Markovic, Ings, Moreno, Clyne, Henderson, Milner, Origi ... unfortunately, BR doesn't seem to be able to get them to do it on a regular basis, or doesn't start these players often enough.

Markovic is on loan. Moreno can attack but can't defend well. Ings as average pace for a striker. Ibe and Origi are very raw and therefore inconsistent and lack good on and off the ball movement, as proven by Ibe's ineffectual performances so far this season and Origi's non-show. Henderson and Milner do not have great pace although they can run all day. Clyne represents the sole outlet down the flanks in our team.

Rodgers has denuded the team of real pace and failed to add a proven winger to the squad during this window. 

[killer-heels]

Markovic is on loan. Moreno can attack but can't defend well. Ings as average pace for a striker. Ibe and Origi are very raw and therefore inconsistent and lack good on and off the ball movement, as proven by Ibe's ineffectual performances so far this season and Origi's non-show. Henderson and Milner do not have great pace although they can run all day. Clyne represents the sole outlet down the flanks in our team.

Rodgers has denuded the team of real pace and failed to add a proven winger to the squad during this window. 

Where are they running when teams defend deep? Are they going to get 30 yards of free space to run into? Why is Coutinho the only number 10 in the world who cant play with a good target man?

[ThePoolMan]

Where are they running when teams defend deep? Are they going to get 30 yards of free space to run into? Why is Coutinho the only number 10 in the world who cant play with a good target man?

When all things are held constant, more pace is always an advantage. That burst of initial acceleration is one of the key attributes that separates the best from the merely good. One does not have to be a sprinter over 100 metres but the first 10 yards is vital.

[SwordInYourGut]

I see what Coutinho brings to the side. But I only see it 6-10 times a season, which is quite frankly, not good enough. Take a look at players like Oscar, Hazard and compare Phil to them. He couldn't have been more average. But good for Phil, he plays for a club which oozes mediocrity and delusion. So yeah, lets get back to calling him 'The Magician'.

Jesus Christ.

What does Oscar bring? He doesn't even start half the games. Coutinho is twice the player he ever will be. Every genuine no. 10 in the PL is inconsistent. Their form is so often dependent on the wingers making runs and finishing moves and ours have been awful for a year. Coutinho's greatest asset is how he can receive the ball in tight areas and turn players to open up spaces and have calm possession between the lines. Coutinho is a magician, if you get your head out of the goals-assists obsession, you'd see it a lot better.  You may also want to look at Iniesta's season by season stats while you are at it.

[rowan_d]

Until we figure out a way to threaten properly from wide areas, teams will sit back against us, removing a big part of Coutinho's game

Few small things that should be easily fixed in that aspect

1) Get more players in the box ffs
2) Stop pissing about cutting back into a crowd of players when in crossing positions, and with players in the box
3) Stop playing so many short corners, we normally just end up being forced back and starting at square one
4) Don't be afraid to cross early if you see a player attacking space in the box

Too many of our crosses this season are head-down, lofted in the general direction of the penalty spot, nowhere near the one player who is actually in there, and expecting him to generate all of the power himself even if he hasn't got a run on it.

Of course this is all easier said than done, but right now we have no threat unless winning/being given the ball in positions that the other team aren't ready to defend against

[redk84]

Would love Coutinho to be the pivot in our team.

I love watching Silva play, Modric and Iniesta....these types of players that are dynamic and find space to exploit better than anyone. Coutinho I believe can be that for us in time...he's not the finished article yet, he is learning all aspects required for this role still but is more than good enough to play that role for a team like us at the moment.

He needs more than just Benteke in front of him in my opinion. He gets sucked into our deeper midfield and leaves Benteke isolated....Sometimes he tries to find the killer ball too early but like I said, he's learning.

There has to be some kind of stability in what we have in front of him though. We are not helping him. BR is searching for that and our attack may suffer as a result of this but that's what happens when the team goes through changes like ours has.

[pjshaun]

Coutinho is one of the best no. 10s in this league who never gets to play as a no. 10. He is our version of Silva but we are hell bent on converting him into Eden Hazard. He may well even become a Hazard than a Silva because he is so naturally gifted but we are not helping ourselves by playing him in the right (Bournemouth), left (West Ham) and anywhere but in the center.

[Hoenheim]

Coutinho is one of the best no. 10s in this league who never gets to play as a no. 10. He is our version of Silva but we are hell bent on converting him into Eden Hazard. He may well even become a Hazard than a Silva because he is so naturally gifted but we are not helping ourselves by playing him in the right (Bournemouth), left (West Ham) and anywhere but in the center.

He tends to dribble and try to find the killer ball more often than Silva though, who is more patient in the final third (dunno if he is instructed to do this, or it's just experience), and relies on his close control to get past players.
Coutinho needs Sturridge back in the team, the understanding between them is amazing. I'd say the same for Silva - Aguero

[pjshaun]

He tends to dribble and try to find the killer ball more often than Silva though, who is more patient in the final third (dunno if he is instructed to do this, or it's just experience), and relies on his close control to get past players.
Coutinho needs Sturridge back in the team, the understanding between them is amazing. I'd say the same for Silva - Aguero

That's because he has always been playing in a front 3. He has no other option but to dribble and create chances out of nothing. Our lack of movement means he can't play killer balls from the deep. You saw his magic from the deep in his first one and half seasons when he had Sturridge, Suarez and Sterling making intelligent runs all over the pitch. 

[Kopenhagen]

He gets dragged deeper because nobody is feeding him the ball and he feels the creative onus to get things moving. He's wants to play in central midfield, not as a '10.' And his best games for us have come as a central midfielder in a 1-2 midfield shape. He's not comfortable playing primarily back-to-goal, doesn't have the consistent goal return, isn't robust enough, and ideally wants two to three natural forwards running ahead of him. Plus his dribbling from deep allows him to take multiple players out of the game, opening up the time & space to pick an incisive pass.

The creative burden is falling on him this season and he looked mighty frustrated last Saturday. We relied on Suarez to wreck havoc in Rodgers's first two seasons - we could just fizz the ball into him and stuff would happen; you didn't need to really create for him - then he left; last season we asked Sterling to create havoc, then he left; and now we're asking Coutinho to step up.

[Carra-ton]

I can't believe people are finding faults with Coutinho. He is way above any one else in this Liverpool squad in terms of potential, talent and current level. In fact, from his perspective, he deserves to be at a higher level, at a better performing club.

[Bunter]

He's the best player at the club, who we should be playing central, giving him genuine attacking options ahead and letting him run the show. Sick of seeing him pushed out wide in favour of an impotent, one-paced midfield.

[bird_lfc]

I can't believe people are finding faults with Coutinho. He is way above any one else in this Liverpool squad in terms of potential, talent and current level. In fact, from his perspective, he deserves to be at a higher level, at a better performing club.

He's probably our most influenencial player yes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults too.

There are no genuine 'world class' players in our squad currently, Coutinho included, although he has the potential to be.

[DangerScouse]

He's probably our most influenencial player yes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults too.

There are no genuine 'world class' players in our squad currently, Coutinho included, although he has the potential to be.

Agree with all of the above.

[kcbworth]

He's probably our most influenencial player yes, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his faults too.

There are no genuine 'world class' players in our squad currently, Coutinho included, although he has the potential to be.

I reckon if 85% of the posts in here were waxing lyrical about Coutinho, with maybe the odd post now and then saying "could still improve on XYZ... how exciting" there would be no issue. Because that's the level he's at, 85% of the stuff he is doing is amazing, but clearly he's still not Messi so theres's no shame in encouraging the final improvement

The problem is that I reckon 50% + of posts in here choose inexplicably to focus on those small areas of improvement - usually laced in criticism, which I cannot comprehend for the life of me. Seriously? What kind of miserable perspective chooses to deride one of the most talented players to ever pull on the shirt? Makes no sense to me at all.

From the tone so many use, it seems like plenty on here would not be fussed if Coutinho was regularly dropped, which fucking blows my mind

[mrantarctica]

Part of the problem is that we aren't set up to play around Coutinho, we are set up to play around Benteke. Utterly questionable philosophy given that we don't have any real genuine wingers in the team, we have very few good crossers of the ball, we're playing a right footed CB at LB and most importantly, Coutinho is our best player probably won't get the most out of a target man (we already tried that last year with Lambert and Balotelli and it failed miserably).

[cricketrocks]

Part of the problem is that we aren't set up to play around Coutinho, we are set up to play around Benteke. Utterly questionable philosophy given that we don't have any real genuine wingers in the team, we have very few good crossers of the ball, we're playing a right footed CB at LB and most importantly, Coutinho is our best player probably won't get the most out of a target man (we already tried that last year with Lambert and Balotelli and it failed miserably).

I think it's too early in the season to have any definitive judgements on our setup. Lets just see how it plays out over the next month or two?

[sempi]

Its noticeable that when he tires, the team struggles as a whole.

[C]

Ibe and Origi are very raw and therefore inconsistent and lack good on and off the ball movement, as proven by Ibe's ineffectual performances so far this season and Origi's non-show.

Origi hasn't played, how can you level these things at him?

[pjshaun]

Origi hasn't played, how can you level these things at him?

from the friendlies he played may be?

[killer-heels]

He is standing out now but once we have Sturridge back and Firmino and Benteke settle he will have better players around him. Lets not jump on a 'he is too good for us' bandwagon just yet. He is good, but not that good.

[ahfolk79]

Am I right in thinking he misses only the United game through suspension?

He's our best player but then he mightn't have been at his best anyway, after the Brazil game. It's an opportunity for someone else to step up, especially considering that United are playing at pretty much the same level (or maybe a little bit better) as us at the moment.

[Adeemo]

Am I right in thinking he misses only the United game through suspension?

Yep, 2 yellows = 1 match suspension.

[Michel]

He is not a wide midfielder.Let's     play our best player  at his best position please.

[Theoldkopite]

I think it's too early in the season to have any definitive judgements on our setup. Lets just see how it plays out over the next month or two?

Oh please!!! Stop talking sense on a rawk forum.

[ahfolk79]

Yep, 2 yellows = 1 match suspension.

Ta

[Alex7]

He is not a wide midfielder.Let's     play our best player  at his best position please.

As a sole attacking midfielder behind the striker? I think he's struggled when played there, personally. Struggles with being man-marked by a midfielder. Sticky him on the left with licence to roam inside and he finds space and time.

[RedSince86]

[MrBoywunder]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/CK_jLZjqPuA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/CK_jLZjqPuA</a>

[Giono]

As a sole attacking midfielder behind the striker? I think he's struggled when played there, personally. Struggles with being man-marked by a midfielder. Sticky him on the left with licence to roam inside and he finds space and time.

As a number 8 like his Brazilian kits above suggest. Runners ahead of him gets the most from him.

He is wasted out wide. Sure, he gives us some attacking flair out there, but he gives us no width and how often does he get in the box?

[Smudgester]

I'm confused ... I didn't think Dunga had picked Coutinho for these two games?

[Zoomers]

I'm confused ... I didn't think Dunga had picked Coutinho for these two games?

He made it because Oscar got injured I believe, but you are correct the initial squad had no Coutinho in it.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Love that.

[The Real Rasta]

Just had an interview shown on Football Focus, he's a good lad our Phil.

[Redman78]

Yeah just watched that, he's a great guy, hope we can hang onto him for a while yet. 

[N0rnIr0nRed]

How many more games in the league is he due to miss?

[Chakan]

How many more games in the league is he due to miss?

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