Topic: Animal Fur

[Kop307]

Didn't know where to ask this so I thought I'd drop it here. I've got a question and surely someone on here will know the answer.

Killing animals for their fur can be seen as wrong, there are arguments for and against, but what if an animal dies of natural causes, can you then use the fur, does it then become socially acceptable?

For example if a Tiger dies at a Zoo, do they just cremate everything? I got onto this when discussing Canada Goose with my dad we were asking "where do you draw the line" and I said at big cats. If you saw someone wearing a tiger skin coat I'm sure it'd be quite shocking, but if the tiger died of old age, is it wrong? That's basically my question. The Zoo could make money from it. How does that work.

Random I know. I'm just really curious and google couldn't answer me.

[redbyrdz]

The problem is that everyone would claim their fur coat is made from an animal that died of natural causes. How do you police that?


Also animals that die of old age or illness don't have the nice fur that people want to wear. You need to kill the young ones for that.

[Kop307]

The problem is that everyone would claim their fur coat is made from an animal that died of natural causes. How do you police that?


Also animals that die of old age or illness don't have the nice fur that people want to wear. You need to kill the young ones for that.

Surely if it comes from a Zoo you can have certificates etc. Serial numbers.

I'm just curious what they do with the animals at Zoos when they die. If they're burning Fur surely it's irresponsible. Poachers are killing animals for Fur and Zoo's are burning it? Just a thought I had and I can't seem to get an answer.

[redbyrdz]

Surely if it comes from a Zoo you can have certificates etc. Serial numbers.

I'm just curious what they do with the animals at Zoos when they die. If they're burning Fur surely it's irresponsible. Poachers are killing animals for Fur and Zoo's are burning it? Just a thought I had and I can't seem to get an answer.

I think some stuff them and use them in exhibitions and for education.

There aren't exactly masses of tigers dying in zoos all the time.

[Kop307]

I think some stuff them and use them in exhibitions and for education.

There aren't exactly masses of tigers dying in zoos all the time.

They need money and fur is expensive. They should sell it. Take into account all the Zoos and sancturies around the world there would be a lot. And it's not just tigers. Lions etc. People would pay unreal money for it. But is it as bad as killing it for the Fur by using it at all?

I got into this beause I wanted a Canada Goose jacket and my Mrs thought it was wrong. I eat meat, I wear leather. Where is the line in all of this?

[Elmo!]

Surely if it comes from a Zoo you can have certificates etc. Serial numbers.

I'm just curious what they do with the animals at Zoos when they die. If they're burning Fur surely it's irresponsible. Poachers are killing animals for Fur and Zoo's are burning it? Just a thought I had and I can't seem to get an answer.

I don't think there's anything morally wrong with using such an animals fur in isolation, but practically, if it is possible to legally own one, it would likely create a bigger demand on the black market as people would be able to buy them and claim they were legal....

[moondog]

Coyotes are seen as a pest in the USA so there is less kick off than if Canada Goose were using baby seals for their collars, however , a coyote is still a beautiful creature killed solely for the trim on some scally grandma's fashion statement . The sooner these pass out of trend the better, says the world Coyote  population.

[Claire.]

if it is possible to legally own one, it would likely create a bigger demand on the black market as people would be able to buy them and claim they were legal....

In a nutshell.

Why would you even consider wearing something that creates demand for such horrific treatment of animals? You might think what Canada Goose are doing is 'okay' but what about the market it's stimulated for fur and to make it affordable? Take Angora rabbits as an example, look into what happens to them, see how they're treated, it'll turn your stomach.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Killing animals for their fur can be seen as wrong, there are arguments for and against

What are the arguments for?!?!

[Lfsea]

What are the arguments for?!?!

I suspect indigenous tribes in areas of world like the Arctic Circle, using hides essentially for survival - would be the 'for' in this instance.

[Branno]

Anyone own leather shoes/handbag/wallet ?

[CraigDS]

Anyone own leather shoes/handbag/wallet ?

I imagine you can probably spot quite a few differences between the way cattle are farmed and the way exotic animals are killed for their fur (and other parts)?

[Claire.]

Anyone own leather shoes/handbag/wallet ?

The day I find out the hide is peeled off a live cow as it screams in pain is the day I'll take that as a viable comparison.

[Branno]

Where is that picture of Andriy Voronin's wife walking through town when you need it

[Branno]

The day I find out the hide is peeled off a live cow as it screams in pain is the day I'll take that as a viable comparison.

You ain't seen my wife when I go near her handbag then

[Kop307]

The day I find out the hide is peeled off a live cow as it screams in pain is the day I'll take that as a viable comparison.

I'm sure Canada Goose aren't skinning Coyote's alive.

The whole leather/fur thing is an issue for me. I cannot believe or accept that leather is a bi-product of cows dying or being killed for meat.

Cows will be bread specifically for their leather. Prada aren't using shitty old cow leather, they'll be bred for it. There's no way top handbag manufacturers aren't having cows specifically killed for their handbags.

It's all pretty shit - but somehow because I own a Canada Goose coat I'm the bad guy - they're an easy target. I just don't know where this line is. I eat meat. To moan about a coat is pretty pathetic (not you - the argument). Unless you're a vegan the whole argument around CG is void.

[Kop307]

What are the arguments for?!?!

A lot of people in the world genuinely need them for survival.

If the fur is a bi-product of an animal death the fur can be sold for profit to help maintain a farm, zoo or family.

[Kop307]

In a nutshell.

Why would you even consider wearing something that creates demand for such horrific treatment of animals? You might think what Canada Goose are doing is 'okay' but what about the market it's stimulated for fur and to make it affordable? Take Angora rabbits as an example, look into what happens to them, see how they're treated, it'll turn your stomach.

There are people in the middle east who would pay an absolute small fortune for legal Tiger/big cat fur. Literally millions.

My argument is, if a Zoo needs funds to treat sick animals, or home ones that need help, use the fur of a dead animal, who will be burnt, to fund that project.

There has to be a way of making that sort of thing viable. And surely if you can buy a fur legally, and it's seen as acceptable perhaps those who seek it from the black market will buy a legal one - as it's a genuine alternative. At the moment if you want a fur of a big cat, you can only seek one illegally. I'm not saying hope an animal dies to get the money - if the big cat is already dead , at least make some use of it, from the standpoint of the zoo or sanctuary.

[Kop307]

If a big cat has died of natural causes then its fur is gonna start degrading pretty damn fast.

If it's a case of millions of pounds/dollars to that organization I'm sure it can be dealt with quickly to help out.

[Buck Pete]

If it's a case of millions of pounds/dollars to that organization I'm sure it can be dealt with quickly to help out.

I do sort of see what your saying mate but I don't suppose selling an animal fur (even if it is off a Tiger than died naturally) sends out the right message.

Where will it end?  Taking all the confiscated heroin from Customs drug busts and flog it to smack-heads to fund a new addicts rehabilitation clinic.

[Devon Red]

When illegal ivory is captured it's burnt. It could be sold on to fund conservation, but that would perpetuate the market for ivory and increase consumption. The idea is to limit the market as much as possible and make it socially unacceptable. The same should apply to fur.

[princeoftherocks]

"....if a Tiger dies at a Zoo, do they just cremate everything?"

The answer is within the question.  Tigers should not be in zoos in the first place.  They're fast becoming extinct so it may be necessary, sadly.  We are destroying the world around us.  We think we own the world.

Tiger coats belong on Tigers. 

[Kop307]

"....if a Tiger dies at a Zoo, do they just cremate everything?"

The answer is within the question.  Tigers should not be in zoos in the first place.  They're fast becoming extinct so it may be necessary, sadly.  We are destroying the world around us.  We think we own the world.

Tiger coats belong on Tigers.

I can't disagree with anything you said. 

[reddebs]

I think you may be exaggerating the "millions" that zoos etc could raise from selling the skins of dead animals.   There aren't that many tigers in existence, even in zoos, for enough to die on a regular basis to raise that kind of money.

Apart from that by selling them they would create even more demand that can't be supplied, meaning more would be killed illegally.

[CHOPPER]

Skinning things and wearing them as trophies? All sounds very RAWK-ish if you ask me.

[Kop307]

No one has answered my original question - what does the Zoo do with dead animals?

[CHOPPER]

No one has answered my original question - what does the Zoo do with dead animals?

Feed them to the lions, obviously. Duh!

 

[Jake]

Figure out why it died and then cremate them.

[Jake]

It's all pretty shit - but somehow because I own a Canada Goose coat I'm the bad guy

[Kop307]

 

[BarryCrocker]

People who need to wear fur:



People who don't:

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Those Canada goose jackets are hideously expensive. Imagine wasting a load of money on a coat, I could have an original Roland space echo for that money. And still buy the kids some chips.

[Crosby Nick]

People who need to wear fur:



People who don't:

That bottom pic is disgraceful. What animal has that even come from?  Either way, it fits snugly on his head I guess.

[moondog]

Those Canada goose jackets are hideously expensive. Imagine wasting a load of money on a coat, I could have an original Roland space echo for that money. And still buy the kids some chips.

Space Echo won't keep you warm when you are hanging around the chippy tho Sam. (Great bit of kit btw)

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Space Echo won't keep you warm when you are hanging around the chippy tho Sam. (Great bit of kit btw)

True, true.