Author Topic: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool  (Read 7294 times)

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« on: November 30, 2011, 01:06:47 am »
Plaudits must go to Craig Bellamy, playing like that after losing a close friend so soon. It was very similar to the last Chelsea and Man City game wherein we looked sharp and fast on the break, our first goal similar to our first one last time at the falling down bridge, and Anelka trying to do what City nearly did which was nip the ball round the goalie only to find 17 players in red lining up on the goal line...


Is is time for the Christmas Carroll lines yet? If not, how did he do?

Maxi and Bellamy: should they play golf together... twice they've linked up very well.

Henderson's best game in a while for me tonight.. anyone else?


etc.
Yep.

Online Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,382
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 01:04:26 pm »
I sat watching this on a dodgy internet stream and it was hugely enjoyable. The standout moment for me was just after the second goal when we were still knocking it about between us, and I remember thinking, this is awesome. Two goals up at the Bridge and we're still playing pass and move. Mighty.

At time of writing, we still don't know the story on Lucas so here's hoping, but until he went off, he had been utterly dominant. The media worm has turned with our Boy from Brazil now, with august luminaries such as Tony Cascarino and Jamie Redknapp now queuing up to tell anyone who'll listen that the lad is indeed a Player. Redknapp even called him an "enforcer".

Other notables included the ongoing reinvention of Pepe Reina as Matthias Sammer, while still making regular saves with confidence. Coates defended very well overall but was lucky with the penalty shout. On another day, he might have been punished. He is a good passer of the ball though, isn't he?

Henderson played well, got in about them and although Bertrand more or less drew arrows for where he wanted the ball for Bellamy to be played, Henderson still had to do it. Favourite moment was when he had picked himself up after the Lukaku tackle and could clearly be seen asking the sideline who it was. I like that.

I am going against the grain with this but I thought Bellamy was having an off night. Nothing seemed to be happening for him, he was in the wrong place or made the wrong run or pass too often. And yet, he got the assist for both goals so I should really shut my mouth. Maxi Rodriguez seems to have an invisibility cloak in London by all appearances because nobody seems to track him, and his finish was precise and confident.

Our back four were tight and collected, and I am now getting to the stage where I enjoy Enrique trying to beat three players in his own half. Because he usually succeeds. Jay Spearing made a fabulous pass to Henderson for the first goal, left footed, too. He's quite two footed, our Jay, isn't he?

Andy Carroll looked a proper striker, putting himself about in a manner that Torres might wish to examine. He was unlucky with the peno but some of his hold up work was excellent, including some very tidy footwork. Bring him on for ten minutes and he looks like Bambi on ice skates but give him a full game and you start to see the player we hoped we had bought.

Overall, very happy with the result and the performance. Cardiff Palace in the semi, please!

PS Coates 6'6", Carroll 6'3", Kelly 6'3". Just watching them celebrate Kelly's goal there again, like the fucking trees out of the Lord of the Rings!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 01:49:41 pm by corkboy »

Offline Rormac

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 08:41:13 pm »
I just want to comment on how it has been in the past two games that when Pepe has come out far there have been 3 (or 4?) redmen on the line.  En passant.

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 08:44:34 pm »
Its a good point, I wonder if he expects to have to run out that far, but he does anticipate very quickly. I notice he's done it twice in the last two games and his confidence on the ball is a lovely thing to see but it alarms me to see any goalkeeper having to do that.
Yep.

Online Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,382
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 08:50:50 pm »
Steady on, Hinesy, he ain't Grobbelaar. Yet.

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 08:57:01 pm »
Ray Clemence is the best he has to emulate.


Lucas: Is he no longer an unsung anti hero, to unsung hero to vital cog in the wheel?

Carragher being back: how did he do?

Coates: whaddya think of his game?
Yep.

Offline Rormac

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 09:00:38 pm »
If he hadn't come out what would have happened?  For me it's a window into the confidence he has in the team he plays with and also a window into how determined the others are to support him.  And heh nice to see Bruce mentioned.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 09:05:27 pm »
I just want to comment on how it has been in the past two games that when Pepe has come out far there have been 3 (or 4?) redmen on the line.  En passant.


weird. When 3 of our defenders lined up on the goal line the other match I immediately thought of chess. Castle king side, h3.


Can't really comment on the game - internet stream, OK for the first half, bollocks for much of the rest. I do love beating Chelsea tho. I really do. I really like beating them to zip as well, and I really like to see Torres getting crossed off completely - nullified completely - with ease. Why do some people want him back? I'll never understand that. He's at a big club now! Let him enjoy it.

Reckon we'll beat City aswell, even if we have lost Mr Lucas. Come on you fucking Mighty Reds.


edit: an important edit (for me). Bellamy... I just love to see him in the starting line up. I feel all warm inside every time. Massive player with a massive heart. One fucking tough gig for him that was but did his mate proud no fucking doubt about that.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 09:10:17 pm by Filler. »

Offline Rormac

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 09:09:16 pm »
weird. When 3 of our defenders lined up on the goal line the other match I immediately thought of chess. Castle king side, h3.

Weird.  I thought how great it is how our players get back to make sure we don't concede.  Maybe my psychotherapist will help me out.

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 09:13:45 pm »
Weird, I thought you were making a chess analogy vis-a-vis your fork lift truck driving license 'en passant'. You weren't then... maybe.


edit: I'm a chess fan and thought your 'en passant' comment was a lovely way of putting it. I also thought about chess. Hope that sorts out the misunderstanding!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 09:21:09 pm by Filler. »

Offline Rormac

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2011, 09:32:12 pm »
Er, must admit I had not thought about chess.......  ooooops

Offline Filler.

  • Up. resurrected. Keeps his Kath in a cage, but not sure if the new baby is in there as well. Studying for a Masters in Semiotics.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,767
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 10:17:22 pm »
Er, must admit I had not thought about chess.......  ooooops

It's my fault. I will be the only person to compare defending on the line with chess pawn structure. I think I was just hoping I found someone.

Offline Rormac

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 10:35:54 pm »
It's my fault. I will be the only person to compare defending on the line with chess pawn structure. I think I was just hoping I found someone.

football / chess.  sorta similar.  i'm a bit lost now.  Crystal Palace!!!!!

Offline John C

  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 42,264
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2011, 11:22:26 pm »
What a wonderful win by a well motivated team to outplay Chelsea once again at their own ground.
I'll start with Henderson, he had a great game, he put himself about more and took that horrific tackle well rather than going missing. His pass for the goal was as exquisite as you'll see all season. I hope people appreciate the thought that went it to it by sending it left of the defender rather than right.
Then there's Kenny, although many people would have selected the side he put out, he got it spot on and the players must have listened intently to his instructions because Chelsea rarely troubled us.
I think Carroll really could have done with slotting that pen away, not only would it have done his confidence good but it would made the team buoyant for the coming games - I think it would have completed our resurgence from those painful draws. So its unfortunate that we exit a wonderful win without a Carroll goal and the expectancy of being without our best player for several months. Lucas had been outstanding again, taking the ball off Chelsea players feet for fun and dispossessing poor Nando at will.
Jay put in his usual reliable shift and lets hope he can emulate his performances at the end of last season to fill the massive gap left by Lucas.
Carra and Coates were solid, Coates in particular looking comfortable and fearless.
I was delighted to see Bellamy being able to put in a fantastic performance being unaffected by the events of this week - what a gem of a signing he demonstrated to be last night. His movement out wide and in &a round the box were excellent.
It was great to see Kelly finally rewarded for the amount of times he's trotted up for a corner only to scoot back in haste when the first man hadn't been cleared. Great to see a headed goal from a fresh face.
And there's Maxi, what makes us enjoy a Maxi goal more than many others. The unsung hero keeps singing for a regular start.

But lets not forget Chelsea, part pathetic part dirty c*nts. Good riddance to their short term climb to fame. Now fuck off back to where you came from.

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2011, 11:50:16 pm »

The intangible thing has coursed through us the last three games, and become tangible - belief and assertive confidence. Call it an aura of attitude, which seems to have grown and been grasped in the last three games especially.

Its intangible because it lies behind tactics, formation, technique, statistics and is a summary of everything in collective performance. Its basically what can be called spirit.

We just seem to have achieved a tenatative swagger and cohesion and belief that blooms on the pitch now. You can feel it yourself, I've actually felt calm and confident watching us recently in a way I didn't the first part of our season.

Every team, when the manager is supported and given time, begins to take on the character and personality of the manager, and it feels like we're beginning to see our team cohere into the attitude of Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish.

Its still in its infancy and we face challenges, is always susceptible to challenges, but at the very least, we are seeing glimpses of that ideal, a Liverpool prowling, in our manner and style and belief now.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline "Ninja Skrtel"

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #15 on: December 1, 2011, 01:09:28 am »
Have to agree with Stussy that the attitude and spirit is the most pleasing thing of late. We outclassed Chelsea at their own ground, as did the travelling Kop, again!

The other best parts of the match for me were:

-Bellamy's performance
-Lucas' performance
-Making triangles in and around Chelsea all match
-Maxi's link up play
-Coates' performance
-Henderson's performance
-Kelly's first goal
-Enrique's strength on the ball
-Defence: pressing and scrambling
-Carroll's aggression and hold up play
-Torres' impotence

It's a good sign we're showing this type of confidence and tenacity without Gerrard too.
"Behave yourself".

Offline Ecuared

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,183
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #16 on: December 1, 2011, 01:44:47 am »
PS Coates 6'6", Carroll 6'3", Kelly 6'3". Just watching them celebrate Kelly's goal there again, like the fucking trees out of the Lord of the Rings!

If those three can become first choice players in the next couple years we will be amazing on set peices.
“He was a very good customer. He was just the three bottles of semi-skimmed. They didn’t have to be placed zonally on his step or anything. He was happy to have a chat and he would always look after you at Christmas.”

Offline Juan Loco

  • down in Acapulco. LIkes 'em salty and succulent, the wee lambies!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,902
  • We've got our valuation and we're sticking to it
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #17 on: December 1, 2011, 01:55:20 am »
Remember saying in the summer that I thought we had a better squad than them. It wasn't out of bravado, and I didn't think it was just silly bias. They could still finish above us. They've got muscle memory when it comes to winning games. They could again win the league soon enough, because they're bankrolled and can buy great players. But right now, I think we've got a better squad than them. When I look at their squad I see too few top players who are coming in to their peak years. I see plenty of top players who are coming off those years, and enough youngsters (with big enough fees) to make you think "Yeah, they should end up good", but right now, when you look at their good players who can contribute from the off and are going to get better, it's all too few. Mata, Luiz, Ramires, possibly Sturridge. They've got their Lukaku's, Romeu's and whoever else, but they're teenagers. Pretty much everyone else is on the way down, or like Kalou and Mikel, there have to be reservations over whether they're good enough.

I compare that to our side, and I see the players we have aged between 24-28, and it amazes me how we've strengthened this squad in two transfer windows. Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Enrique, Lucas, Adam, Downing, Suarez - All in that 24-28 range. Then below that, we've got Carroll, Henderson, Spearing, Coates, Kelly - all a little younger, in the sort of range where they have Sturridge. We've got kids as well. Quality teenagers, who you don't want to place too much pressure on, but we've already seen Shelvey, Flanagan and Robinson and they're good. Oh, and we've got our share of quality older players too, players we probably can't rely on for too much longer but aren't actually being forced to, unlike Chelsea.

In terms of the actual game, I just love the fact that we're an assured passing team. Its the most attractive football I can remember us playing in years. It's not the most effective, but the insistance on passing and moving, from front to back, it's just good to watch. It's just great seeing someone like Enrique at leftback, regardless of who the opposition are, being unafraid to take the ball under pressure. It's not misplaced confidence either. He backs his ability to get out of those situations. So does Lucas, so did Coates yesterday just like Agger a week last Sunday. It spreads as well. Martin Kelly has no trouble receiving the ball under pressure, Jordan Henderson is going looking for it more and more, even Andy Carroll yesterday was taking the ball under pressure and making sure it got to a red shirt. There was one move that involved him doing that which, had we been blessed with the Maxi Rodriguez of 3-4 years ago, before the ACL, quite possibly would've ended up in a goal. I actually thought Carroll had a decent game, and would've garnered plenty of praise had he put that penalty away. I suppose the concern, more than the missed penalty, was that he didn't really get a chance beyond that. Still, despite all the loose touches, he was a good foil, and especially 2nd half was involved in plenty of good goals and lay-offs. He certainly helped get the midfield closer to him during the middle period of the 2nd half when we were at our most dominant.


I think the most pleasing thing about that game, and the last 3 actually though, is that there's more than a confidence developing. There's an assurance beginning to develop about the team, the squad, the club. Confidence will come and go, but having that will to do the right things, to take the risk because you know others will do the same and back you up, that's going to stand us in really good stead.

"It's the football philosophy that counts, not the system."

A fully signed-up member of SPAS
The Stuart Pearce Apologist Society

Offline redoneusa

  • No new LFC topics
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,483
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #18 on: December 1, 2011, 02:03:21 am »
I thought it was another great game for us. Bellamy again was brilliant for us, setting up both goals again.

Real loss to see Lucas leave the pitch, really impressed how we kept the ball and controlled the game. Another master stroke by the King.

You will find me on Twatter: Follow my Twatter

Offline jckliew

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,261
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #19 on: December 1, 2011, 02:07:51 am »
If those three can become first choice players in the next couple years we will be amazing on set peices.

Have we ever had a taller back?
My 12yr old son asked me: Is Blackburn a Racist name?

Offline DanA

  • misses the Eurovision Glory Days.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,127
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #20 on: December 1, 2011, 02:10:20 am »
It's my fault. I will be the only person to compare defending on the line with chess pawn structure. I think I was just hoping I found someone.

Chelsea were on a king hunt but Reina (our brave king) came out and met the attack until it fizzled out.

football / chess.  sorta similar.  i'm a bit lost now.  Crystal Palace!!!!!

In chess you have formations, defensive structures, advance support points, tactics, combinations, open & closed positions. A lot of parrallels actually, i'm sure Rafa would agree
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline DaveCharlie

  • RAWK Hidden Gem #1
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,309
  • Former Formbyite, in Australia, was back, now NZ
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #21 on: December 1, 2011, 02:14:02 am »
Ray Clemence is the best he has to emulate.


Lucas: Is he no longer an unsung anti hero, to unsung hero to vital cog in the wheel?

Carragher being back: how did he do?

Coates: whaddya think of his game?

Coates, Kelly, Agger & Skrtel is a great set of 4 CBs to go in to next season with - not sure what that means for Carra, but he played well against Chelsea - significantly reduced the hoofing, but not well enough to displace Agger & Skrtel from a starting spot in the league IMHO.
 
Coates is Hyypia reincarnate, I swear - looking like a great buy and a popular lad - I wonder how his English is coming along? Could be important to his long term settling here.

I'm just absolutely gutted about Lucas' injury. I don't blame Kenny for playing him - he's in the form of his life and this was just a case of bad luck. If we win any silverware this year - I'd expect to see Lucas hobble up and get a medal, no matter the comp - he's just been superb for 18 months now and I hope this injury doesn't set back his career too badly.

I just love seeing Kenny put out both Maxi and Bellamy - switching and swapping sides, popping up in annoying positions all over the park and both are unnerving in meeting their defensive duties. Would love to see it again in the league with Suarez. The second striker position is one of much conjecture though...

Oh, and that Lukaku is a shitbag of the highest order - that was an awful tackle on Henderson who was lucky to keep his leg in one piece from that one.

Offline DanA

  • misses the Eurovision Glory Days.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,127
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #22 on: December 1, 2011, 02:18:31 am »
Speaking of the shit bag (I think it was Lukaku in this case). Did anyone notice how appauling his defending was on the Kelly goal. He was two feet away ball watching and didn't even attempt to make a contest. Just gave Kelly a header at goal. I'd be fucking livered if that was a Liverpool player. Just laziness of the highest order.
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline moloch

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,301
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #23 on: December 1, 2011, 10:28:15 am »
Regarding to the impotence of Torres.. it was Lucas (of-fucking-course) who nipped the ball away from him several times in dangerous positions. Here's to hoping the injury is not as serious as we all think it is.

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,109
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #24 on: December 1, 2011, 10:30:04 am »
Regarding to the impotence of Torres.. it was Lucas (of-fucking-course) who nipped the ball away from him several times in dangerous positions. Here's to hoping the injury is not as serious as we all think it is.

From Mostar.

"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline killer-heels

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,611
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #25 on: December 1, 2011, 10:42:59 am »
I think if anyone had doubts about the quality of our whole squad now compared to the past squads should take note of this game and this cup run, which has shown just had good the squad now is.

We have options all over the field and more importantly, a really good understanding between many of our players. We controlled the majority of the game against Chelsea and even without Suarez, we had alot of potency in the final third, particularly in the 2nd half.

The team game outshone the individuals but a good mention to Martin Kelly, Coates and Bellamy, who were excellent throughout. I thought Spearing also did a good job against a close to first choice Chelsea midfield once Ramires was on.

Offline Roy of the rovers

  • TORY Supporter - proof being he voted for Blair...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,686
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #26 on: December 1, 2011, 10:44:11 am »
Really important win for me, despite -or in fact because it was - about second teams

It's an obvious point, but we played a second string team against a 'top six' side and looked comfortable. Partly this is because one of our 'ringers' - Lucas - had yet another imperious game. But it's also because Kelly turned up with a goal, as did Maxi (is he really second team?) and Bellamy, another not in most people's first XI played a blinder

In addition, we now seem to have four decent centrebacks in roughly the right age range (1 older, 2 in prime, 1 younger) and even a number of OK left-back options.

We also seem to have moved on from the rather frustrating 4-2-2-2 formation of the early season to a 4-1-3-2 in which we have a clear holder (Lucas, presumably now Spearing) and a trio of attacking mids. One is usually wider, but with Maxi on the pitch (rather than Downing) we're playing narrower which means there's more midfield runners into the box and more control generally. Adam's role has gone from defender/supplier of wide balls to a more advanced creator/AM - and he's much better at this. This gives us a fairly fluid attacking front 5 with some pressing up front (see Adam's tackle for the Chelsea goal). Key to this has been the higher defensive line, hence Pepe's commanding if nerve-inducing sweeper-keeper roles

The losers in this change have been Downing and Carroll. We seem almost to have accepted that wide and crossing isn't our first tactic, but it is a reasonable plan B. Which raises a couple of interesting possibilities: Downing will only get time as an inverted winger/AM or as a plan B. Carroll's role as target man is a plan B option - how does he play when he's our Plan A?






Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,109
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #27 on: December 1, 2011, 11:00:37 am »
The losers in this change have been Downing and Carroll. We seem almost to have accepted that wide and crossing isn't our first tactic, but it is a reasonable plan B. Which raises a couple of interesting possibilities: Downing will only get time as an inverted winger/AM or as a plan B. Carroll's role as target man is a plan B option - how does he play when he's our Plan A?

I was encouraged by Carroll's performance as a link man. He was reasonably comfortable in tight spaces, and had good understanding of where his team mates were.  A recent performance that comes to mind as a comparison was Torres at Wolves away, which was one of his best all round performances that I've seen. Carroll isn't as much of a threat facing the defence, but you could argue Torres was playing on reputation by that point anyway. Carroll also still has a habit of sitting back after he's been involved in a play rather than pressing on and continuing the move, but even here I saw some signs of heading for the danger area when the lights went on and he remembered instructions. There were seeds there of what he should be doing, and if he can ingrain that into his system, he should work within a pass and move team.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Daintstar

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • A Bastion Of Invincibility
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #28 on: December 1, 2011, 11:04:19 am »
Its a good point, I wonder if he expects to have to run out that far, but he does anticipate very quickly. I notice he's done it twice in the last two games and his confidence on the ball is a lovely thing to see but it alarms me to see any goalkeeper having to do that.

If you look at the replays, Anelka and Silva will have both been in excellent goal scoring positions had Reina not rushed out and put them off/attempted to make a tackle. Thought he was excellent. When Torres had his header I though it would whistle into the net like it did against Manchester United 2 seasons ago at OT but a great save from PEPE.

Gutted about Lucas but what is done is done and we need to move on. Wish him all the best in his recovery and can't wait for him to be back but the present is the present and unfortunately he isn't a part of it.

Henderson well played, along with Andy Carrol, gutted about the penalty miss. Jay Spearing very impressive along with Coates.

Offline No666

  • Married to Macca.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,768
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #29 on: December 1, 2011, 11:09:26 am »
I was encouraged by Carroll's performance as a link man.  ... Carroll also still has a habit of sitting back after he's been involved in a play rather than pressing on and continuing the move, but even here I saw some signs of heading for the danger area when the lights went on and he remembered instructions. There were seeds there of what he should be doing, and if he can ingrain that into his system, he should work within a pass and move team.

Ha - yes - you could see the lights flickering spasmodically in this match. He was useful and it was, generally, an encouraging performance from him.

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #30 on: December 1, 2011, 11:23:12 am »
I tell you, it was a sweet one this. Doing it full strength is one thing, but doing it with what many perceived as a 'lesser' squad and doing it so convincingly was really satisfying. The squad must be buzzing, albeit losing Lucas will sting.

We're adept at that style of play though - compact and reasonably incisive on the counter attack, with as Juan says, players who are comfortable receiving the ball when they have company. Having said that, little moments decide these games. Lukaku's header could have flashed in. Another ref might have given Luis his pen. Who knows eh? We got some luck, and then when Lucas got his injury, we had some deducted from our balance. Bastard. We'll need to change the way we set up in the middle now won't we?

Andy Carroll played well I thought and I ended up arguing with a fella behind me who was slagging him off. He's getting back into that groove of bringing runners round him into play, and he also represented a massive pain in the arse for the Chelsea defence as both our out ball and a nuisance as they tried to build from the back. It was a shame the goal didn't go in - Craig Douglas Bellamy should have gotten that pen I reckon.

Bellamy was immense though eh? And the travelling Kop brought a lump to the throat.

Great night - and brilliant to meet gramck aswell.

Offline lamonti

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,443
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #31 on: December 1, 2011, 11:34:51 am »
My thoughts:

I like that we have basically got a first team squad that is actually a squad rather than a first eleven, a couple of subs and some unwanteds.

Our Carling Cup campaign has been used to play players who are all first team, senior players, rather than chucking together a bunch of bogey signings in with lads who are too young to be taking responsibility as has been the case in the past under both Hodgson and even Rafa. To be fair to Rafa, the step up to his "first team" was much greater, because of the level they were challenging at, but I like the idea that we have a smaller squad that is being used in its totality.

A massive drawback is the injury to Lucas and the continuing struggles of Carroll. I thought there were some positives in his game that he has improved from, but its far beyond the level required from a top no. 9 and I can't help but feel he's getting a lot of credit for not falling over a lot of the time. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and think he will still improve with confidence and practice, but he doesn't work hard enough and looks like a player who has been badly coached as a youth and used his strength and power to get by up to this point. His movement off the ball is appalling - he's never busting a gut to get into the box after laying off or holding up the ball, he's never sniffing out rebounds like say Mario Gomez would. 90% of his goals are tap-ins to empty nets after fumbles, rebounds or layoffs after good play his more skillful team mates. Carroll could be racking up the goals by using his brain rather than his forehead. Pen miss... was obviously going to happen. But then again, it happened to Crouchy and he shook the monkey off his back.

On the plus side, Henderson continues to improve. He's not a right winger but he is now more disciplined in defence and useful in attack. Plus he's already broken his goalscoring duck so I think we'll see a few more from him.

Also, more obviously, Bellamy and Maxi - just shows you how much you do in football with a brain. Bellamy I guess is a much more mature/less insecure individual with much less to prove than in his first spell with us where we signed him a striker who we knew was good but also knew wasn't really the answer. He's become a better player with age, knows what to do and how he's going to provide it - rather than a guy desperate to prove his worth and thinking he might be in over his head.

Maxi is just a better player than I thought he was and I must hold my hands up there. I loved him in WC 2006 but thought his best years were long behind him, but its absolutely no coincidence how many of the goals he scores are practically identical - tap in at the far post... the kind of measured finishing we have missed in so many games this season! Both of his performances at Chelsea were thoroughly enjoyable.

Coates... some great defending and some clear elements of getting away with it - both Luiz moments. Lots of potential and will improve with game time and experience.

Kelly - gotta love the guy. He's actually always looked like a goal threat right from the game against Lyon so I'm glad he's finally got one. Been knocking them in England U-21s too so no fluke. I love it when a guy is such a natural that he thinks he can score if its on, no matter what the mindset of his position should be telling him.

As for Chelsea, I never seen them look so toothless against us. I know it was a weak team but we really held them out pretty comfortably. Torres was a shadow the player who once terrorised Europe. Is there a verb Shevchenkoed? There should be.
« Last Edit: December 1, 2011, 11:36:41 am by lamonti »

Offline steveeastend

  • Learnt to play them drums
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,853
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #32 on: December 1, 2011, 11:49:47 am »
I think if anyone had doubts about the quality of our whole squad now compared to the past squads should take note of this game and this cup run, which has shown just had good the squad now is.

I never doubted that our squad didn´t improve, I always doubted if our first 11 did and the fact the we beat Chelsea again by two just shows that this team looks even stronger than the one from sunday in a couple of positions. Which is a massive improvement over last year, no doubt ;)

...but anyway, all the positives which are to be taken from this again and being well pointed out by a lot on here just cannot outshine the injury of Lucas to me at the moment.

I really hope he comes back as strong as before, there are a lot of examples for this and his top professional approach will help him for sure.

Get well soon Lucas, hopefully all these worries turn out to be for nothing and you´ll be back as soon as possible.

Finally I think the most important thing to be taken from this win will be the confidence boost!
« Last Edit: December 1, 2011, 12:30:18 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Online Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,382
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #33 on: December 1, 2011, 04:01:31 pm »
At time of writing, we still don't know the story on Lucas so here's hoping

The latest news has sucked every drop of the goodness out of that win for me. Every single fucking drop.




Offline Mad Max

  • Propa bad Wool. tried it just for once found it all right for kicks. but now you found out that it's a habit that sticks.
  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #34 on: December 1, 2011, 04:56:48 pm »
A great performance on Tuesday night.

Offline Gnurglan

  • The Swedish Savaloy
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,548
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #35 on: December 1, 2011, 05:47:50 pm »
It was a very solid performance, defensively, yet again. One of the main positives for me was Carra-Coates. We have used all our CBs (except Wilson, who I think will leave soon) against top sides and they have all performed. I wasn't surprised, but the key thing here is that they have performed as individuals AND they have performed in combination. And how about Kelly and Johnson? Both have scored against Chelsea and then we have Enrique, who is perhaps the most impressive of all our signings under Kenny. LB has been a problem area for a couple of seasons - no more. Our defensive game is no concern.

Maxi and Bellamy should start games now. If their recent performances merit to start, they'll never start. We need attacking players who perform. Not many do. But Maxi and Bellamy have been the business when others have struggled. Please, let them continue!

Lucas injury is a real disappointment. Let's hope Spearing & Co can step up and fill a bigger role, but we'll miss Lucas, that's unfortunately a given.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline sideshowme

  • aka Bob
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,162
  • the king: making grown men feel like 10-year olds
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #36 on: December 1, 2011, 08:02:19 pm »
maxi is the invisible man.  if you watch his goals this year a good proportion of them seem to involve him sauntering into the left hand side of the box fashionably late, completely untroubled by any member of the opposition, and then rolling the ball into a corner nonchalantly.

last season, a principle reason was the good work of suarez and dirk scaring the defence and sucking the right back across, leaving maxi free, and a similar thing happened with bellamy/suarez's twinkle toes in the league game.  it's a brilliant play and for some reason, managers don't seem to be wise to it.  having said that bosingwa should never play again for his sheer lack of effort tracking maxi.

lucas's injury is a big blow.  we are still a schizophrenic team all over the field, but lucas is our bastion of consistency, and that is what we will miss the most.  ironically enough, he's the cruciate ligament of the team - we may still play well without him, but we will struggle for stability when we really need it.
Dudek saaaaves for Liverpoool!  Liverpool have won the Champions' League!  Walk on, walk on, with hope in your heart!

Offline JACKO_LFC

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 444
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #37 on: December 1, 2011, 08:05:45 pm »
love this hahaaa!


Offline J-Mc-

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,642
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #38 on: December 1, 2011, 08:41:29 pm »
:duh ffs not again!

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,765
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Round the Carling Table Chelsea 0 - 2 Liverpool
« Reply #39 on: December 1, 2011, 09:17:18 pm »

...but anyway, all the positives which are to be taken from this again and being well pointed out by a lot on here just cannot outshine the injury of Lucas to me at the moment.

That's exactly how I feel... There are so many positives, but just not enough to compensate for the loss of the Midfield Boss.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."