Author Topic: Anfield's forgotten men (Read 6339 times)

Walton Breck Road · « **on:** April 7, 2010, 05:22:37 pm »

The name Tom Watson might not ring a bell with most of our fans but he was a very key figure for the club in the pre-war era as the first manager to bring the First Division championship back in 1901.

It was also his side that won the title in 1906, prompting the Anfield directors to build the Kop in recognition of the team's achievement and he deserves a special place in LFC folklore for that alone in my opinion.

Although we lost the 1914 FA Cup final to Burnley, he was the first manager to take us to one which shouldn't be forgotten.

Before he came to Merseyside, he lifted the title three times in eight seasons with Sunderland so he was definitely a born winner.

Such was his influence that, like Shanks, former players of his turned out in force at his funeral and some acted as pallbearers including Alex Raisbeck and Ted Doig, another interesting character from those early years at Anfield.

Not only was he the club's oldest debutant at 37 years old but he was also the oldest first-team player at 41 when he turned out against Newcastle United in April 1908.

The reason why I gave you this brief history lesson is because I'm going to visit the graves of these two gents at Anfield Cemetery later this week as part of a project I'm involved with. Ted's headstone is blank whilst Tom's burial plot isn't even marked.

Don't know about you but I think it's a crying shame that these two individuals' final resting places have been allowed to fall into decline and in Tom's case, be erased from sight.

Liverpool helped rededicate the grave of the Reverend Ben Swift Chambers - one of the Founding Fathers of Merseyside football - in West Yorkshire and that of Elisha Scott in Belfast but there has been no willingness from the club, as far as I know, to do the same for Tom Watson or Ted Doig - whose grandson is incidentally a statistician for LFC - who lay just a few hundred yards from Anfield itself.

Talking to a few local historians and the like about this so that we can try and have fitting tributes for these two fine gentlemen that stands alongside the grand memorials of some of the club's former chairmen who also reside in Anfield Cemetery.

For now folks, please keep this on here as it's only early days

Stussy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 7, 2010, 05:31:02 pm »

Thanks for this mate.

Fat Scouser · « **Reply #2 on:** April 7, 2010, 05:36:45 pm »

Nice one mate. I knew of Tom Watson but never knew the Kop was down to him and his team. What a shame this isn't more widely known and recognised. Good luck to you and all involved.

Mikuss · « **Reply #3 on:** April 7, 2010, 05:40:28 pm »

Nice project you have going here mate, good luck with it.

fivein05 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 7, 2010, 05:44:37 pm »

Well done very insightful, best of luck with your project.

its cold in the stands · « **Reply #5 on:** April 7, 2010, 05:55:08 pm »

Quote from: Walton Breck Road on April 7, 2010, 05:40:04 pm

A bit more info:

Ned Doig won 4 Football League championship medals with Sunderland's renowned 'Team of all Talents' (1892, 1893, 1895, 1902). He was also a Scottish international. Ned's manager at Sunderland for the first 3 of these championships was Tom Watson.

Watson came to LFC as manager in 1896 succeeding John McKenna. In 1904 he signed 41-year-old Ned Doig - the oldest player ever to sign for LFC.

Ned won a Second Division championship medal with LFC in 1905 and the following season a First Division championship medal. He played in the LFC first team at the age of 43 - still a record as the oldest player to appear for the club. (Kenny Dalglish was 39, the oldest post-war player.)

Watson's team with Doig in it was the first to play in front of the newly created Kop. They were both also involved in the Ibrox disaster.

great work mate!
didnt know that watson was scottish and at rangers back then, maybe he had something to do with archibald leach coming down here to build the kop (apart from the roof!)
preston won the first 2 league titles then everton won the next one and after that watson won 3 out of the next four titles with sunderland, watson was winning league titles before this club was formed!
to have a record like that and then to go to another club (here) and win the league with them he must have been a great manager.

miss_heather · « **Reply #6 on:** April 7, 2010, 06:24:24 pm »

Great Work!!

kriss · « **Reply #7 on:** April 7, 2010, 07:50:23 pm »

I have had the pleasure of meeting and corresponding with Eric Doig on a number of occasions. Apart from being probably the most respected and knowledgeable LFC statistician in the world with a truly astonishing collection of memorabilia, he is hugely proud (and rightly so) of his grandfather's achievements with both Sunderland and Liverpool. It's nice for Eric to know that over 90 years after his grandfather's death, efforts are being made to ensure that some of our famous ex-players, the Forgotten Men that Walton Breck Road highlighted, might be remembered by future generations of Liverpool supporters too.

OLDIE · « **Reply #8 on:** April 7, 2010, 11:34:32 pm »

Cracking thread

The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society · « **Reply #9 on:** April 7, 2010, 11:47:54 pm »

Brilliant stuff.

KERRYKOP · « **Reply #10 on:** April 8, 2010, 03:09:34 am »

Great read

Its a shame those two important men's graves have fallen into decline, surely the club to mark their lives can stump up a bit of cash to fix them up.

Arnie · « **Reply #11 on:** April 8, 2010, 10:49:18 am »

-its cold in the stands-
"didnt know that watson was scottish and at rangers back then, maybe he had something to do with archibald leach coming down here to build the kop (apart from the roof!)"

- Tom Watson was a Geordie, not Scottish... Here's more info on Liverpool's longest serving manager, one of the greatest figures in Liverpoool FC's history.

http://www.lfchistory.net/managers_articles_view.asp?article_id=2472&manager_id=2

-Walton Breck Road-
Hope you do well with your project.. say hello to Eric from me. :-)

Cheers, Arnie editor of LFChistory.net

Walton Breck Road · « **Reply #12 on:** April 8, 2010, 10:50:02 am »

Quote from: KERRYKOP on April 8, 2010, 03:09:34 am

Great read

Its a shame those two important men's graves have fallen into decline, surely the club to mark their lives can stump up a bit of cash to fix them up.

Sunderland will definitely get involved I think as Watson was not only the first manager to lift the title for them but also their first ever manager.

NeverWalkAlone96 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 8, 2010, 11:12:46 am »

Great read- they certainly should not be forgotten. Good luck with this.

Ingumsky · « **Reply #14 on:** April 8, 2010, 05:21:02 pm »

Great work! Thank you!

Fat Scouser · « **Reply #15 on:** April 8, 2010, 05:37:04 pm »

Sorry to say this in here. It really does make me sad to say it, but I've got to...
it reminds of the recent Shankly anniversary threads. The club couldn't give a toss and only a small minority on here did either. But open a thread on any practically any other subject, and within days it's pages and pages long... usually of Rafa in/out.

Time to stop kidding ourselves. Except for some good people who know the Liverpool Way, (that's old, young, local, oot and ooc), we're just another football club.

Thought long and hard about posting this. Nearly sacked it, but anyway...
Well in Walton Breck mate and all involved. And I know I've got a nerve. I only get to 10/15 games a season, but it's nice to know there's people who still carry the torch.

AllyouneedisRush · « **Reply #16 on:** April 8, 2010, 09:55:59 pm »

Keep up the great work lad... I'm with Fat Scouser on this, we should all remember and respect our roots.

The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society · « **Reply #17 on:** April 8, 2010, 10:32:41 pm »

Rich, this should be a regular feature in Well Red mate.

royhendo · « **Reply #18 on:** April 8, 2010, 10:53:13 pm »

Great stuff this

tinkertailor · « **Reply #19 on:** April 8, 2010, 10:57:00 pm »

Smashing story. Best of luck with all this.

its cold in the stands · « **Reply #20 on:** April 8, 2010, 11:54:11 pm »

Quote from: Arnie on April 8, 2010, 10:49:18 am

-its cold in the stands-
"didnt know that watson was scottish and at rangers back then, maybe he had something to do with archibald leach coming down here to build the kop (apart from the roof!)"

- Tom Watson was a Geordie, not Scottish... Here's more info on Liverpool's longest serving manager, one of the greatest figures in Liverpoool FC's history.

http://www.lfchistory.net/managers_articles_view.asp?article_id=2472&manager_id=2

-Walton Breck Road-
Hope you do well with your project.. say hello to Eric from me. :-)

Cheers, Arnie editor of LFChistory.net

cheers mate
that was a great read, fascinating at the end of that piece to read the words of the great echo journalist ernest `bee` edwards too.
i`ve heard that when archibald leach built the main stand at goodison `bee` tried to get them to call it the `mauretania` stand but it didnt catch on, lucky he had more success with the red half of the city when he had an idea what to call the newly built stand that backed onto walton breck road!
excellent site by the way mate.

shanklyboy · « **Reply #21 on:** April 9, 2010, 12:29:48 am »

Well in WBR mate.

Fascinating and very sad at the same time.

Walton Breck Road · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2010, 11:58:39 am »

Unmarked graves of Liverpool FC legends discovered in Anfield Cemetery

A pair of neglected graveyard plots, lying in the shadow of Anfield stadium, are the last resting place of two men who inspired the building of its famous Kop stand.

Researchers have found that Liverpool's first successful manager, Tom Watson, and his favourite goalkeeper Ted Doig, are both buried in unmarked graves in Anfield Cemetery.

Now Liverpool supporters are calling for tombstones to be erected on each of the anonymous plots, to honour the names of men whose exploits make them legends in the club's early history.

Full story: http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/liverpool-fc/128852-unmarked-graves-of-liverpool-fc-legends-discovered-in-anfield-cemetery.html

vicgill · « **Reply #23 on:** April 26, 2010, 05:28:44 pm »

Quote from: FAT SCOUSER on April 8, 2010, 05:37:04 pm

Sorry to say this in here. It really does make me sad to say it, but I've got to...
it reminds of the recent Shankly anniversary threads. The club couldn't give a toss and only a small minority on here did either. But open a thread on any practically any other subject, and within days it's pages and pages long... usually of Rafa in/out.

Time to stop kidding ourselves. Except for some good people who know the Liverpool Way, (that's old, young, local, oot and ooc), we're just another football club.

Thought long and hard about posting this. Nearly sacked it, but anyway...
Well in Walton Breck mate and all involved. And I know I've got a nerve. I only get to 10/15 games a season, but it's nice to know there's people who still carry the torch.

Don´t be hard on yourself mate,there are a few of us who know what you mean and i´m sure Ritchie won´t take it personally.

Quote from: shanklyboy on April 9, 2010, 12:29:48 am

Well in WBR mate.

Fascinating and very sad at the same time.

Terry de Niro · « **Reply #24 on:** April 26, 2010, 05:31:41 pm »

I agree with FS.
Wouldn't you think that someone at the club would have taken an interest in this earlier?

Walton Breck Road · « **Reply #25 on:** April 26, 2010, 06:20:57 pm »

Quote from: Terry De Niro on April 26, 2010, 05:31:41 pm

I agree with FS.
Wouldn't you think that someone at the club would have taken an interest in this earlier?

Think it was more of a case that they weren't aware of this. I know I wasn't until it was pointed out to me.

Brian Hall's been in touch with Eric Doig so there might be something in the offing, especially with it being 95 years since Watson's death.

firing squad · « **Reply #26 on:** April 26, 2010, 07:38:30 pm »

Jesus,how could this happen?? It's not like they were some no marks.Tom Watson won the first league title and then promoted the club up again after the relegation and then won the league again.

He was Shankly before Shankly and it's a disgrace that he was buried in an unmarked grave.

Obviously,everyone knows and apreciates what Shankly did for LFC but I always thought that Liverpool's pre-Shankly times and triumphs are pretty much ignored among the majority of fans and the "general consensus" seems like LFC's history began with Shankly.

Walton Breck Road · « **Reply #27 on:** April 26, 2010, 07:47:34 pm »

Quote from: firing squad on April 26, 2010, 07:38:30 pm

Jesus,how could this happen??

Presumably money was tight back in those times and their final resting places were forgotten over time.

Pheel · « **Reply #28 on:** April 26, 2010, 07:56:29 pm »

Maybe SOS and / or CP/ MB could get this sorted. Not sure how you set up a page to gather funds and I am sure the Family would have to be traced? And this website has enough goodness to sort. Sure of that.

Anyone?

Edit: seen the reports and it seems people are already moving, will chip in if required.

ConorYNWA · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2010, 10:29:18 pm »

Bump.

conman · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2010, 10:47:53 pm »

Thanks for posting Walton Brek, was nice to read.
Agree with FS too about peoples lack of interest and carrying the torch.

Lets hope something can be done here.

Author Topic: Anfield's forgotten men (Read 6339 times)

royhendo