Topic: Liverpool 1 Hearts 1 (2-1agg) Eye Witness Report

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Ties like this one must be a real headache for managers.  The desire to blood youngsters and to rest first teamers for bigger games as opposed to the fear of the repercussions if your understrength side cock it up. The situation further complicated by the existing narrow advantage and the tendency that induces to simply hold on to what you have.

Rodgers heterodoxy (thanks Yorky) ensured that we fielded a team that was both strong but also extremely experimental.  The formation was the increasingly familiar 4-3-3 but with some counter-intuitive twists.  Carragher got another run out in defence alongside Skrtel, who was presumably being given a chance to exorcise a few ghosts from last week.  Kelly continued at right back and Downing started where he finished the City game, at left back.  The marvellously absorbent Joe Allen was the base of a midfield three with Gerrard and Shelvey.  Up front debutant Adam Morgan and Jordan Henderson flanked Luis Suarez in a front three.

Hearts started the brighter but despite the best efforts of the travelling Jambo hordes, who were entertaining in a shithouse small town club kind of way, the first half was a fairly disjointed and drab affair.  Liverpool were unable to control the game in the manner we would have liked but were still creating, and missing, all the opportunities.  The second half started in a similar vein but when Sterling replaced Morgan it somehow lifted both team and crowd and we were treated to a period of sustained and controlled pressure during which we really should have put the tie to bed.  We didn't and we became slipshod and allowed them back into the game.  We only snapped out of our torpor when Reina, who had not made a save all night, decided to preserve that stat and make the visitors feel at home with an impromptu impression of Alan Rough.  We awoke and almost immediately, Suarez who had been pretty poor for most of the evening raced onto a through ball, held off the defender and rifled under the keeper from a tight angle.  It was the hardest chance he had all night and the sort of goal we've not scored since that Spanish kid left.  Cue sighs of relief all round. Job done. Hearts are deservedly applauded from the field and their fans seem surprisingly made up at this draw and exit at the hands of a minnow that is no longer famous and will win fuck all. 

The predominantly low key nature of the game gave me plenty of time to sit chin in hand pondering what Rodgers was trying to achieve with this selection.  By the time Reina enlivened proceedings I thought I had had a moment of clarity so here are a few thoughts on the more counter intuitive selections he made and what we can perhaps learn from them for the future.

Downing at left back
So far so good. He never really put a foot wrong, his positioning was good and he competed for headers.  The real bonus is that he looks far more of an attacking threat overlapping from fullback than he does when playing as a winger.  It plays to his strengths, he no longer has to beat a man, just run onto the ball and cross it.  Clearly there will be greater tests of his defensive acumen than Hearts but I think we will be seeing him there quite regularly.

Why are Suarez and Gerrard not flanking a proper number 9?
You see them there in every tedious pre-match team sheet and I have thought myself that our ideal formation would see them there in front of a midfield of Allen, Lucas and Sahin.  Clearly we are not going to see that for a couple of months now unfortunately but judging by the team selection against Hearts we may never see it.  If Rodgers used a debutant centre forward, an out and out poacher, on the right while keeping Suarez in the middle then you have to assume that, huge signing today excepted, that is where he will be playing all season.  Similarly, if he is going to select Jordan Henderson as the left forward in preference to Gerrard and play Gerrard in midfield in preference to Henderson then it is safe to assume that he sees Gerrard's role in the midfield three.  Why?

I have deliberately avoided all the boards before writing this but I presume the usual suspects are already hinting at dark forces in play, about Gerrard refusing to play anywhere else.  I don't believe that for one minute.  You ask Andy Carroll how ruthless the new manager is.  In fact, you could ask Jamie Carragher too.  Or Stewart Downing. Or Charlie Adam. 

I think the principal reason is tactical.  We label his formation as 4-3-3 when in reality it is only every really that at kick off.  When we are attacking then the fullbacks push forward and overlap, the centrebacks spread and one of the midfield drops deep, with the ball we play 3-4-3. When the opposition pushes us back then the two wide forwards are responsible for tracking their fullbacks and helping our fullback.  Something Henderson did excellently for Downing in last nights game.  When defending we play 4-5-1.  Do we really want to see Suarez tracking back and covering for the left-back?  Are we not better leaving him up on the shoulders of the defenders so they can never rest?  Has Gerrard got the youthful energy or indeed the tactical discipline to continually shuttle back and support Glen Johnson? 

I felt sorry for Adam Morgan, the step up to your first team start is hard enough as it is but to do so in a position that is so unfamiliar must be doubly so. In the end he had a couple of bright moments but he was not involved anywhere near as much as he needed to be.  It has to be said though, that even when having a stinker, as he did for much of the evening, Luis Suarez constantly terrorises defenders and should be allowed free reign to continue to do that without the shackles of tracking fullbacks.  We just have to hope that he regains the finishing form that he showed for Ajax.  Two goals in his last two despite not playing that well in either.  Perhaps he has?

Gerrard is bound to be more contentious.  I have wondered myself recently whether he has what it takes to fit into a Rodgers midfield where ball retention is the key. After watching him for 90 minutes though I think we have perhaps become blinded to his qualities after seeing him play in dysfunctional midfields for too long.  He is adapting his game, happier now to play the simpler pass and it is easy to forget just how brilliant he still is at quickly closing down players and stealing possession in dangerous areas.  Several times this evening we were treated to the exhilarating sight of Gerrard in full cry steaming forward after stealing possession and driving the whole team with him.  It is a rare quality in football and something that is otherwise lacking in our central midfielders. Playing him deeper allows him to exploit that space in front of him and bridge that gap between the midfield and the front three. I predict that is where we will see him this season, and I predict that with the security of players like Lucas, Sahin and Allen behind him and unfettered by having to be the hod carrier for the likes of Adam and Cole we will see our best season from him for a while.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Moved across and bumped

[MichaelA]

a shithouse small town

OI!

Almost a nice read Kev, although Edinburgh is a Neo-Classical Georgian marvel, a delight for the soul and the senses, and is arguably the finest small city in Europe. Gorgie, on the other hand...

I think you've made some good points about the line up and flexibility. Stevie will always play, but I do wonder how much game time he will get as the season wears on. He's just reaching a certain age, and maybe we are beginning to see some signs of competition for places in Brendan's system. It's something I think he needs for his game, for his career, and it may do wonders for him and the club. I hope so.

[RedMarko]

Good read - thanks for that.

Have to agree with the majority of that.

Thought Downing was as good as I've seen him. I think it was quite an insight as to how Rodgers wants his full backs to play....

Gerrard reminded me of a Gerrard I thought was long gone at times. The problem I have is that, if he's not able to do that consistently, I'd prefer to see him do it against Man City last week, than Hearts!

2 games and 2 sets of errors allowing teams back into games. Slightly worrying. I am somewhat concerned that the main problem that we had last year was getting goals. We changed manager and midfield, and yet still do not have addresed the issue.....

*veer back on topic - sorry - t/f stuff nearly clouded me there!

All in all, we got the result we needed. before Man C I would have taken a draw, but was (slightly) downheartened when we got one as the game was there to win. Last night I hoped we would hammer Hearts, but was (slightly) relieved when we got a draw!

Roll on Arsenal!!

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Haha...thought that might provoke a reaction.  I thought the Hearts fans were generally good value, just too many songs that you'd expect from Northampton to let it pass.

[Fat Scouser]

I don't know so much about the weakened team, Kev. Can we be that much stronger?

I thought it was a lesson to be learnt. I hope Brendan took lots of notes... We aren't Barcelona. Now and again we'll have to whack the fucker long or we'll play ourselves in to real trouble. Better quality finishers on the oppo and we'd have been up shit creek. But while I'm saying that... well done Jambos. I hope they had a good night on the piss in town, and give the title a real dig up there this season. I was impressed, but I was listening to their away record. Apparently, they haven't scored an away goal since William Wallace played at York. If he'd been playing last night, I wouldn't have been thinking of a few May nights in Amsterdam.

It's easy to see what Brendan is trying to do. Mind you, that's been broadcast more than Coronation street, but if mugs like me can see it and predict it, opposition managers have already worked out a way to counter it. Thankfully, most of them will probably go for the Royston Bodgeson method, and his bus parking formation, but any team with the bollocks to have a go, and the quality to finish it, will scare the shit out of us.

Getting Lucas back will solve some of that, but tell you what we could have done with last night... A fucking big massive lump in the box, that Downing could hit. The lad played more quality balls into the box last night, than he has since arriving here. He actually got past his defender a couple of times, looked up and picked a man out. Some one on the end of them would have been a nice option to have.

My grandson's 2 now. After a couple of hours of chasing him on me gammy leg, I feel like tying him up. But, until he actually got to his feet and took off across the ceiling like a thing possessed, I couldn't wait for him to walk. I had him tormented, standing him on his feet, traipsing him round like he was on a stick, but he had to crawl for a few months first. And I know keep ranting on about a bit of patience for Brendan, but, judging on 3 games of our first 4, maybe Brendan needs to be a bit patient and allow a bit of crawling before they take off.

One move showed it up... sideways, sideways, sideways, forward, back, sideways, sideways, forward, back, add infinitum, Skyrtle, fuck it, whack not a hoof, Luis bearing down on goal. I'm not saying, get Carroll back and start playing like warring Picts in red paint. But I can see some rough times if we don't give the players some options. For that one hoof forward, I could write out 4 or 5 examples of how knocking it about nearly cost us dearly.

Were too predictable as it is, and we're telling anyone who'll listen exactly what we're going to do. The saving grace is, Brendan knows exactly what he's got to do, and the new signings should help kick start it. Lucas, Allen and Sahin would make a lovely base to start things from, but I hope we can get a proper goal scorer in soon. In the meantime, a plan B would be nice an all. But I have no problem with giving the lad time. I have no problem waiting for it to come right. And I accept that we might come unglued a bit before it all sticks, but we might have to bear that in mind for awhile. Like me grandson... teething troubles and all that, but headed in the right direction.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Leo I think that is another advantage of keeping Gerrard in midfield.  Even if he shackles his inclination for attempting the wildly extravagant he will still have an eye for that one long killer ball hit first time before anyone else has even thought of it.  I think his presence at the forefront of that three will help to stop us becoming too predictable

[Guz-kop]

We've been too predictable, especially at home, for 2-3 years now. We don't have the movement, intelligence or the ability to keep the ball high up the pitch and move it around with pace to be constantly carving teams open. It'll take time for that to change whether we intend of play 442, 4231, 433, 118 118 whatever. It's not about a plan B, C or D as we actually try and mix our attacking play quite well as it is - Suarez tries to play on the shoulder, Gerrard can be deep or further up the pitch, fullbacks like to cross, Sterling likes to dribble into the box, Downing likes to cross, Henderson and Allen prefer to play through balls etc. Deciding to pass the ball and be patient isn't necessarily a plan and deciding that all we're going to do for the last 10 minutes at 0-0 is lump it forward or get the ball to Gerrard to cross it in from the right to Carroll's head isn't a plan either.Ultimately it'll be about getting better players in attacking positions. One thing I think will happen this year is we'll realise just how good Glen Johnson is and how mportant he is to our attacking play.

As it is, I thought Hearts were no were near as dangerous as they were last week and didn't look like even getting a shot in until Pepe gifted them a goal. Thought we did ok without being great.

[mulfella]

I thought it was interesting to watch Joe Allen absolutely slam the brakes on when he reached the halfway line on one breakaway late in the game.

to be honest I was screaming for him to keep running, but he's got his (no doubt sensible) instructions from the manager.

Agree with all you said above, except i think had Lucas not been injured I wonder if Gerrard may have been getting a little more rest than he'd previously anticipated.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Good read - many thanks.

I agree with your point re: Suarez completely. I was waiting to say the same thing on the Round Table - in my view it's a tactical decision  to do with his pressing and tracking. As you rightly say, the other team are so scared of him, leaving up top is outfirstline of defence against them over-committing to an attack before he even does anything. Borini might prove to be a better finisher but he doesn't offer that.

[Yorkykopite]

Haha...thought that might provoke a reaction.  I thought the Hearts fans were generally good value, just too many songs that you'd expect from Northampton to let it pass.

Same colours too.

A lot of food for thought there Kev. Can't fault your reasoning about Suarez playing at centre forward. It does make you wonder why BR played Morgan on the flank though. He's not a quick or a tricky player and we know from Swansea that Rodgers likes his wide men to be both. It looked a bit cruel putting him out there. Dare I say shades of Dirk Kuyt? No I daren't. Not with Fats hovering.  But perhaps we'll see Sterling and Assaidi operating in the same team sooner than a lot of people think.

I can't agree with Leo on our 'predictability'. I think we'll see a lot of teams coming to Anfield knowing exactly how we are going to play and not being able to do diddly squat about it. Last night wasn't a fair reflection of how damaging the new Liverpool way will be. Why? Because we had Carragher at the back. Sure, he's trying to play the Rodgers game, taking a deep left back position when we have the ball in our own half. But he's still afraid to start moves and is always turning on to his right foot for the pass to Reina or Skrtel. The number of times Shelvey came all the way back to take the thing off Carragher's toe was embarrassing. It meant, of course, that we played with 10 men not 11 when we had the ball. That's tough for anyone, even Barcelona.

If Agger had played Hearts would have stopped beating after 25 minutes. 

Oh, Gerrard was occasionally fantastic last night. No one carries the ball through the zones quite like him. A brilliant sight.

[Carlos: Very Kickable]

Think the other major problem for me was that the players were terrible at moving into space to give the man on the ball options. A few times I saw the player carrying the ball gesticulating in frustration at the players around him getting him to move - on other occasions Pepe couldn't get away from the return pass as he would kick the ball to the defender who would have to return his pass as there was absolutely nothing on. That's perfectly fine on occasion of course but i felt it invited needless pressure onto us as we were doing it time and again.

I don't get it - it seems simple to me - pass the ball and then move into a position where you are available for another pass, no?

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Some good observations there, particularly Luis's increased workload tracking back if played wide. We could make a little adjustment for that though, that's one of the benefits of having three mids: say Luis is played wide right, then get instructions to Stevie (as furthest forward cm) and say Sahin (right central), to engage earlier ( take up 'press' and 'mark' positions depending on who gets there earlier), and for Allen (left central) to move central. It's fairly common with 3 man midfields. Personally, it's easier to make that tweak than to expect Luis to be a consistent finisher.

If Gerrard isn't played in wide attack this season, it's unlikely he ever will be as his physical capabilities continue decreasing. In terms of defensive work in a wide attacker, you don't expect him to be coaching manual perfect, you mainly want a presence will get back goalside so as not to make opponents' jobs too easy...so that isn't a worry when playing Stevie there; actually, as far as tracking back out wide goes, once you make it a one v one duel, or two v one, stevie is immense at that anyway. It's fitting in in terms of anticipating, covering and holding position centrally, at the right moments, that he has been a worry at times.

 He's ok at the tip of the midfield three, but with a better understanding of fthe system, we could see more from him there. No one's place should be guaranteed though.

[Fat Scouser]

Well, time will tell. But I'll tell you one thing right now... our friend Mr. Wenger will be at work now, with his little blackboard and chalk, showing his lads, how to release one of them sharpish, off the half way line, from behind our forward fullback, and tearing down on our wide playing centre half, while a pair of them stream right through the hole in the middle.

Well, at least that's what I'd be doing right now. Mr Wenger is a much smarter fella than me though, so I'm sure he'll have more options. And for all the talk of us being able to, and having the players to, shake it up a bit, I expect to see exactly the same from us again. The good thing is, Arsenal aren't West Brom. Like City, they'll have a go at us and so give us a bit more space to do our sideways, sideways back, pondering in, before we twat it long.

[steveeastend]

There is no way to read too much into yesterdays game other that Rogders needs proper players for his system. I think Rodgers is still assessing a couple of players, this game to be the last before the end of the transfer window. For this, I really think it was symbolic for the outbleeding of quality the squad had to suffer and the insane amount of money which has been wasted in the last couple of years.

Rodgers will have to bring the quality back in the squad, he is about to do it and although this will take until the end of the next transfer windwow I am confident that the changes he already made will have a positive, visible impact until november at the latest. Until then, I think we will need luck first and foremost considering the fixture list and having to play the euro league at the same time.
 
Due to the need of rotation, which finally seems to happen here, he did assess Morgan, Downing (as a full back) and Henderson while resting some key players for sunday (Coates AND Agger!!)...

Downing as left back seems to be a good idea and when I heard that he played it before, it was pretty obvious why it didn´t work out for him as a winger here. Those type of players usually come from playing in a center position in midfield and attack at a very early age, outstanding technical quality as the likes of Nani, C.Ronaldo or many others. Downing isn´t like that at all. He definitely looks more like a natural left back than Agger (© R. Hodgson), that´s for sure and I am pretty sure he can do that against better teams as well.

Furthermore, I don´t think we will see Morgan too often again this season after yesterdays game and I think Rodgers still wonders what to do with Henderson who hasn´t found a proper place within a Rodgers eleven yet.

To assess all this things in a euro league game just shows how ruthless and calm Rodgers follows his path. One thing after the other...

[MichaelA]

Well, time will tell. But I'll tell you one thing right now... our friend Mr. Wenger will be at work now, with his little blackboard and chalk, showing his lads, how to release one of them sharpish, off the half way line, from behind our forward fullback, and tearing down on our wide playing centre half, while a pair of them stream right through the hole in the middle.

Well, at least that's what I'd be doing right now. Mr Wenger is a much smarter fella than me though, so I'm sure he'll have more options. And for all the talk of us being able to, and having the players to, shake it up a bit, I expect to see exactly the same from us again. The good thing is, Arsenal aren't West Brom. Like City, they'll have a go at us and so give us a bit more space to do our sideways, sideways back, pondering in, before we twat it long.

Opposition managers had them blackboards in the 1980's too.

I'm enjoying a bit of optimism for the first time in about four years. It's nice, I'm enjoying it, come and try on a pair of my red tinted glasses Leo.

[Jason_King]

Interesting read.

Im still torn between Gerrard and where he should play, I still think he should be doing a shift in the 3 up top and equally using Suarez out wide. true they would need to cover back, but they are two of our better players on the ball if they do get it deeper.

I love the idea of us playing it about at and from the back, it does give you some heart stopping moments and I imagine better teams will crowd us out. Then we either lose possesion, hoof it longer for a 50/50 or maybe give us some space just ahead of our deep midfielders that we could play into.

[Fat Scouser]

Opposition managers had them blackboards in the 1980's too.

I'm enjoying a bit of optimism for the first time in about four years. It's nice, I'm enjoying it, come and try on a pair of my red tinted glasses Leo.

I still live in the 80's mate. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of that, either. In fact, I wouldn't mind going back a bit further...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UsarlBYhTQ

Pass and move is nothing new. It's the end product Brendan's got to work on, and getting to it a bit quicker. But don't think I'm unhappy with what's going on. After the last few years of moaning, this is me at me absolutely ecstatic best.

[Fat Scouser]

PS... how were the Jocks in town last night Kev?

I just heard a coach full of them were in a crash, on the way home in the early hours. I hope no one was hurt, but I'm sure there was an awful lot of, no win, no fee, whiplash was suffered.

[Callaghan.]

Why are Suarez and Gerrard not flanking a proper number 9?
You see them there in every tedious pre-match team sheet and I have thought myself that our ideal formation would see them there in front of a midfield of Allen, Lucas and Sahin.  Clearly we are not going to see that for a couple of months now unfortunately but judging by the team selection against Hearts we may never see it.  If Rodgers used a debutant centre forward, an out and out poacher, on the right while keeping Suarez in the middle then you have to assume that, huge signing today excepted, that is where he will be playing all season.  Similarly, if he is going to select Jordan Henderson as the left forward in preference to Gerrard and play Gerrard in midfield in preference to Henderson then it is safe to assume that he sees Gerrard's role in the midfield three.  Why?

I have deliberately avoided all the boards before writing this but I presume the usual suspects are already hinting at dark forces in play, about Gerrard refusing to play anywhere else.  I don't believe that for one minute.  You ask Andy Carroll how ruthless the new manager is.  In fact, you could ask Jamie Carragher too.  Or Stewart Downing. Or Charlie Adam. 

I think the principal reason is tactical.  We label his formation as 4-3-3 when in reality it is only every really that at kick off.  When we are attacking then the fullbacks push forward and overlap, the centrebacks spread and one of the midfield drops deep, with the ball we play 3-4-3. When the opposition pushes us back then the two wide forwards are responsible for tracking their fullbacks and helping our fullback.  Something Henderson did excellently for Downing in last nights game.  When defending we play 4-5-1.  Do we really want to see Suarez tracking back and covering for the left-back?  Are we not better leaving him up on the shoulders of the defenders so they can never rest?  Has Gerrard got the youthful energy or indeed the tactical discipline to continually shuttle back and support Glen Johnson?

I agree with you about the dark forces.

I think the reason Gerrard's there is that the midfield '3' aren't there to provide width as much as the full backs and the front wide two. So Gerrard can be involved more - even in what you might call a freer role than he would have as a wide front man.

I like it. Like you say, it's very unfortunate to lose Lucas now - even for the selfish reason of satisfying our curiosity about what Rodgers really does have in mind.

------------
And Fat Scouser, mate, of course we can field a stronger team than last night's.

Carragher is clearly third or fourth choice. Morgan won't be getting much League game time at all. Henderson won't be starting too many games. Johnson is arguably first choice as one of the full backs. Lucas is out. Sahin is yet to play. And I guess we're going to sign one or two today.