Topic: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion

[TomDcs]

I haven't written him off - check my posts, I'll judge him in a Liverpool shirt and he just had a bad tournament.

If you haven't written him off (without him kicking a ball for us) then why have you labelled his purchase a 'misjudgement'? Regardless of his fee, you don't know who else we are buying, and where he fits into next seasons plans. Agreed that this place is littered with people unable to take a long term view.

[tubby]

If you haven't written him off (without him kicking a ball for us) then why have you labelled his purchase a 'misjudgement'? Regardless of his fee, you don't know who else we are buying, and where he fits into next seasons plans. Agreed that this place is littered with people unable to take a long term view.

I think you might have me confused with someone else, I didn't say anything about him being a misjudged buy.

[Breitner]

Whats happened to our fanbase Breitner?

They're all accountants these days. I just can't wait for the season to start and see how he'll fit into the side, old fashioned I know. The lads at the match will get right behind him, don't worry about, even if it's a struggle at first

[TomDcs]

I think you might have me confused with someone else, I didn't say anything about him being a misjudged buy.

Sorry just saw that was redrider who said that.

[cptrios]

OK seriously...does anyone have any ideas as to how to get this thread locked? I don't even care if I need to incur a short ban in order to do it...this is just fucking embarrassing and depressing.

Jordan, if by chance you're reading this lovely thread, just remember that the only people with whom you actually need to concern yourself are the tens of thousands who'll be cheering you on at Anfield in a couple of months.

[stevedo]

Looking forward to the lad being part of pre season training in the not too distant future.
Exciting times with Kenny at the helm. 

[Breitner]

Do you support liverpool?

I'm going to say no.

[trembles97]

To be honest, he wasn't making the best decisions agains the Czech's, he was playing long balls as much as Smalling, Jones and Muamba. Once Kenny gets a hold of him, he'll develop into a quality player with his skill set.

[Welsh Red]

Aw hes mad because they never signed henderson.

[Raoul Duke]

Who made that up?

Not sure. It's on one of their Let's Laugh At RAWK threads.

[Hazell]

Not sure. It's on one of their Let's Laugh At RAWK threads.

Oh right.

[FlashingBlade]

Having seen him play for all of 3 minutes for England U19 I can advise he is Jamie Redknapp MKII.

[rafathegaffa83]

Henderson should be judged by his performances in his Liverpool shirt not an England one. At the very least he should be given a year, although I am not anticipating him to play to his potential with any degree of consistency until he's 23-24. The merits of his fee should be judged several seasons down the line and then in relation to his personal success at Liverpool and more importantly alongside the collective success of the team during Henderson's career at Anfield. The same can be said for Andy Carroll. Get behind these lads and support them.

[Gitsy606]

Sorry, not that it matters but what are the details of the fee we paid for him?

[john_mac]

They're all accountants these days. I just can't wait for the season to start and see how he'll fit into the side, old fashioned I know. The lads at the match will get right behind him, don't worry about, even if it's a struggle at first

The knobs on here bear no correlation to the match-going fan-base, 99% of which would not give 2 fucks for Stuart Pearce, his tactics or England under 21s.

Roll on the Emirates and getting behind players rather than worrying about how much they cost

[JamesG L4]

The knobs on here bear no correlation to the match-going fan-base

The match going fan base is as fractured and as patchy as it is on the internet. Do you not remember the booing of Lucas?

Or the booing after going top against West Ham?

[Breitner]

Roll on the Emirates and getting behind players rather than worrying about how much they cost

Indeed. I'm sick of trying to be an armchair manager and club accountant, just trust the king and get behind the lads

[Hazell]

Indeed. I'm sick of trying to be an armchair manager and club accountant, just trust the king and get behind the lads

I wish that could be applid consistently Breitner and not when someone feels like it.

[john_mac]

The match going fan base is as fractured and as patchy as it is on the internet. Do you not remember the booing of Lucas?

Or the booing after going top against West Ham?

I remember both and it may be true on occassions, but I'd say more by exception

The internet brigade genuinely appear to believe that they should be managers instead of supporters, in this place it is supporting that is the exception. Every c*nt thinks theyknow more about the managers job than the manager

[armchair-fan]

Indeed. I'm sick of trying to be an armchair manager and club accountant, just trust the king and get behind the lads

Even being an armchair-fan is better than being an armchair accountant

[TSC]

The match going fan base is as fractured and as patchy as it is on the internet. Do you not remember the booing of Lucas?

Or the booing after going top against West Ham?

Not defending those two examples, but seem to recall the booing at Lucas was actually aimed at Rafa for what was then perceived as a negative sub in a game we needed to win.  But as it was Lucas getting brought on then it was seen by some as an attack on him.  Similar the booing against WHU was because most could see us throwing the league away with too many draws against the likes of WHU at home.  Which proved true in the end as the mancs overtook us.

Henderson will be given every chance.  Most match going supporters don't frequent this forum.

[JamesG L4]

Not defending those two examples, but seem to recall the booing at Lucas was actually aimed at Rafa for what was then perceived as a negative sub in a game we needed to win.  But as it was Lucas getting brought on then it was seen by some as an attack on him.  Similar the booing against WHU was because most could see us throwing the league away with too many draws against the likes of WHU at home.  Which proved true in the end as the mancs overtook us.

Henderson will be given every chance.  Most match going supporters don't frequent this forum.

My point was that support is patchy on the forums and in Anfield.

I can't see the logic behind calling people on here 'knobs' and then praising home support unconditionally. The forums played a central role in the struggle against Gillet and Hicks - reading Reade's book emphasises this in detail.

In the fight against G&H, the debates surrounding match going reds and match boycotts/ direct action showed that there was alot of apathy in our stadium at the time, as a ST holder I remember that Anfield was ruptured in two, a schism between those politicised against the owners and those who wanted to get on with it and see what would happen. The fight was on the forums, the passion was on the forums, the marches organised on the forums.

The West Ham/ Lucas booing are poor examples of support, just as some of the buffoons posting on RAWK about Henderson are poor examples of fans on here.

Both have strengths and weaknesses, but I'm not having the blanket statements on either.

[john_mac]

Both have strengths and weaknesses, but I'm not having the blanket statements on either.

The only blanket statement was that they bear no correlation to one another.

Perversely, you point on Lucas actually emphasizes this with its widespread condemnation in here.

Give me the travelling Liverpool fans anyday

[john_mac]

its not the saying that someone is shite, fuck me Paul stewart was, its the over-analysis of why they are shite, what went wrong, who's fault it is and then all the pseudo-accountancy shite. its bollox   

[Eglantine]

Sorry, not that it matters but what are the details of the fee we paid for him?

Undisclosed fee I think, decent journos say 16M and N'gog as a deal seperate, the other shit media report 20M, others 13M but not sure about this one. I don't recall Sunderland confirming a fee but they certainly like the talks of a 20M fee. And Comolli said on LFCtv that none of fees quoted in the media at the time of the transfer are true.


I don't know what our supporters expect us to sign these days. Most say they don't give a fuck about England but still some of them judge him on his latest performances for England. There are reasons people don't fancy England and these are the same reasons why Henderson couldn't freely play his football during the tournament.   

The boy obviously has a tidy range of passing, energy, a football brain, discipline on and off the pitch, potentiel and room for improvement. He'll be surrounded with top footballers, learn his football and about our club. I'm very glad he'll be developing under the guidance of Kenny rather than Ferguson.
   
He was asked in some inetrview about what type of midfielder he is and he didn't know what to respond but emphasized that he is hard working, tries to be creative and is ready to do anything that can help his team. I might be naive and watch football for the wrong reasons but I think it's sweet that he doesn't realize his own potentiel and is still trying to figure what type of player he is, aren't people excited to watch a spantaneous, committed young top potentiel developing at our club and hopefully flourishing and just watch how he does day in day out. He'll need time and support too so I hope this negativity stays in football forums and bars I don't think I can cope with supporters booing one of our players again.

JasbinderX > Just a question, do you by any chance have an obsession with young midfielders trying to make it at a top club? Maybe you're subconsciously projecting your own failure on our players. It was Lucas before and now Henderson, why so persistent?

[Moldyman]

If we judged Stevie G on just his England performances 8 times outta 10 he'd be shite too. Hendos gonna be boss. I can just feel it.

[Jin]

Large parts of this thread are a absolute disgrace. Henderson's young enough to probably be a high internet user and -- in his excitement of joining a new club whose famous for it's support -- has probably checked a few Liverpool sites since he's joined. I'd be absolutely embarrassed if he's read this thread and some the shite some idiots posted about him and thought its representative of what the whole fanbase thinks.

Not trying to be a super fan or anything, but I really can't understand some of the bleating. I bet most of those criticising him have never even seen him play prior to us signing him, and because he isn't a big name (although Henderson does have quite a few letters in it) he's not good enough. He's got loads of potential, Kenny believes in him, that's good enough for me.

If he was a 25-6 year old player with an established reputation I could understand, but the lad's 20, he could be anything at this stage, the very least he deserves is our support. Fucking football manager idiots.

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

Supporting the lad is fair enough but this constant crap about the only way to be a real fan is to be blind sheep is tedious non sense. We are supporters, not only followers. Some will agree, some will dissent.

It's akin to telling people who opposed the war in Iraq or Vietnam that they aren't real "Americans"/patriots (for example) because they didn't support the administration.

This is football and the reason people love it is to watch the games, play it often, and analyse it too. Some of the posters here would have you believe you should just rock up happy no matter what.

Some people are going to have problems or objections to certain players. Deal with it.

[Armand9]

I don't think fans of any persuasion expect (or would want) our fanbase to be 'blind sheep' and looking over events last season clearly shows the vast majority are not (even if we need a nudge in the right direction on occassion), which is a good thing.

What is pissing alot of people off is blind fucking negativity, especially in this thread where its related to a player who hasn't even kicked a fucking ball for us.

[newterp]

  I am so angry  can't believe we spent money on this kid  so angry  why are spending money  it was great when we were selling  so angry  bring back the good old days when we didn't have a pot to piss in  so angry.

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

I don't think fans of any persuasion expect (or would want) our fanbase to be 'blind sheep' and looking over events last season clearly shows the vast majority are not (even if we need a nudge in the right direction on occassion), which is a good thing.

What is pissing alot of people off is blind fucking negativity, especially in this thread where its related to a player who hasn't even kicked a fucking ball for us.

Negativity, blind or not, is merely a subjective view. It's like always seeing dissent as a bad thing; when the dissenter is merely dissenting for the good of the club (or what their subjective view deems that to be).

My take on it is that a lot of fans are irrationally defensive about this transfer and that says a lot about the validity of the criticism. I mean, people are actually trying to say we didn't pay over the odds. It's one thing to say "We did, but let's support him anyway" it is another thing altogether to deny it. And I don't state that as if it is a fact - re us paying over the odds - but the sheer acknowledgement of it from a majority of all football fans tends to make those trying to rationalise the fee a little short on objectivity. And worse, they try to explain that through their being Uber-supporters.

People had problems with Konchesky and Poulsen coming too. But it didn't attract this much argument. I think that may be because Kenny is in charge now. Which, as good as he is, doesn't make him a faultless deity. If you don't like the criticism, attack that. But this non sense about "Oh, I am a match-going Red and we support no matter what" to try and build some superiority complex is just shameless.

I think people should also recognise that THIS is a Liverpool forum. We're allowed to be objective and, gasp, critical. If this was a forum where rival fans came in to banter and annoy then I could see the need for solidarity as a front. Here, we should be able to express our opinions freely without being labeled inferior just because we don't support the status quo.

[cptrios]

£16m was over the odds. And I want him to do well. And I think it's ridiculous to spend time ripping him when we have yet to see him play for us. It's one thing to criticize the transfer; it's another to call Henderson crap and go on and on about how terrible he's going to be.

How's that?

[Jin]

Supporting the lad is fair enough but this constant crap about the only way to be a real fan is to be blind sheep is tedious non sense. We are supporters, not only followers. Some will agree, some will dissent.

It's akin to telling people who opposed the war in Iraq or Vietnam that they aren't real "Americans"/patriots (for example) because they didn't support the administration.

This is football and the reason people love it is to watch the games, play it often, and analyse it too. Some of the posters here would have you believe you should just rock up happy no matter what.

Some people are going to have problems or objections to certain players. Deal with it.

So much bollocks in this, I don't even have the energy to address all of it. I never said we should be blind sheep and not criticise players, hell, you should have seen some of the things I've said about our own players over the years, Kuyt being the prime example. But this guy hasn't even played for us, not one game. How hard is that to understand? The criticism comes from people who I would wager have barely seen more than 2 games from the lad from before he signed. Is it too much to expect people to give him the benefit of the doubt. I could understand if he went through a season with us, was poor, and people got on his back, but he's not even had a training session with us, let alone a game.

And your Iraq/Vietnam analogy is so clumsy and off the mark as to be offensive, as a person who strongly objected to the former, and have many close friends and their relatives affected by the latter.

[Jin]

Negativity, blind or not, is merely a subjective view. It's like always seeing dissent as a bad thing; when the dissenter is merely dissenting for the good of the club (or what their subjective view deems that to be).

My take on it is that a lot of fans are irrationally defensive about this transfer and that says a lot about the validity of the criticism. I mean, people are actually trying to say we didn't pay over the odds. It's one thing to say "We did, but let's support him anyway" it is another thing altogether to deny it. And I don't state that as if it is a fact - re us paying over the odds - but the sheer acknowledgement of it from a majority of all football fans tends to make those trying to rationalise the fee a little short on objectivity. And worse, they try to explain that through their being Uber-supporters.

People had problems with Konchesky and Poulsen coming too. But it didn't attract this much argument. I think that may be because Kenny is in charge now. Which, as good as he is, doesn't make him a faultless deity. If you don't like the criticism, attack that. But this non sense about "Oh, I am a match-going Red and we support no matter what" to try and build some superiority complex is just shameless.

I think people should also recognise that THIS is a Liverpool forum. We're allowed to be objective and, gasp, critical. If this was a forum where rival fans came in to banter and annoy then I could see the need for solidarity as a front. Here, we should be able to express our opinions freely without being labeled inferior just because we don't support the status quo.

Please stop. You're not nearly as insightful or intelligent as you think you are

[U13]

He didn't really get a chance to do much. Watching the ball go over his head regularly was one of the reasons. Regardlss, anyone making judgements on him over his last 3 games really shouldn't.

I'm sorry but this wasn't always the case, he received the ball deep on quite a few occasions but seemed unable to be the linch pin between the midfield and the forwards, Lansbury was much better at doing what Henderson was given the responsibility of doing when he came on.

England tried to play the ball from the back but had no invention in the middle of the park so it tended to go from cb to midfielder straight back to the cb's and then a long ball up top, after a while the CB's stopped playing the ball to the midfielders and just went direct.

These performances aren't the be all and end all but there's no point trying to gloss over what was a poor performance.

[Ikki.Fenikkusu]

So much bollocks in this, I don't even have the energy to address all of it. I never said we should be blind sheep and not criticise players, hell, you should have seen some of the things I've said about our own players over the years, Kuyt being the prime example. But this guy hasn't even played for us, not one game. How hard is that to understand? The criticism comes from people who I would wager have barely seen more than 2 games from the lad from before he signed. Is it too much to expect people to give him the benefit of the doubt. I could understand if he went through a season with us, was poor, and people got on his back, but he's not even had a training session with us, let alone a game.

And your Iraq/Vietnam analogy is so clumsy and off the mark as to be offensive, as a person who strongly objected to the former, and have many close friends and their relatives affected by the latter.

It doesn't matter whether he has played for us or not. He's played football, people have seen it and they've judged it.

Your argument is so simplistic it misses the examples where using your logic would be tedious. I am not a professional footballer and I'm roughly 10 kgs overweight. If Liverpool sign me tomorrow for 5m pounds does that mean fans should suspend all concerns until a ball is kicked?

It's so tedious, that by your logic ANY proposed transfer should not be talked about because whatever Mata, Young, Aguero, etc, have played it wasn't for Liverpool and hence shouldn't count.

People haven't said "he has been crap for Liverpool" for your position to make sense. They've said "he's been average at Sunderland and was poor in the U-21 tourney" and insinuate that it doesn't bode well based on those performances. Which is fair enough. It happens all the time and is nothing new.

As for your problem with the analogy...deary me. You use a personal grief to miss the point and excuse yourself because it. For your own sake, think of another analogy. My point is: dissent is good and people who dissent don't see their actions in a negative light but a positive one. So it is merely a different point of view.

[USC19Babel]

they've lost the plot, sack the board and bring back Parry G&H & co!

[Beninger]

It's strange sometimes the threads that get locked, and the posts that get deleted on RAWK...even more strange: those that don't.

[cptrios]

Your argument is so simplistic it misses the examples where using your logic would be tedious. I am not a professional footballer and I'm roughly 10 kgs overweight. If Liverpool sign me tomorrow for 5m pounds does that mean fans should suspend all concerns until a ball is kicked?

Honestly? I'd say one of two things: "Well, this seems ridiculous, but Comolli and Kenny must have something up their sleeves here," or "Well, clearly Comolli has lost his mind." Either way, I'd full of excited expectation for your first-team debut!

[john_mac]

more shit in here than that farm in Fazak