Author Topic: The Cult of Scientology  (Read 37276 times)

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #240 on: April 7, 2015, 06:13:04 pm »
The big hook is not fear. It's the promise of moving up to the next level.  It's an aspiration cult. To get to the upper levels you have to spend about $250k and then you're into the big secrets.  It's level three 'clear' when you get the briefcase with the secrets of L Ron Hubbard's massive con trick but by then there is such a massive investment financially and emotionally that most are hooked.
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Offline Red_Irishman

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #241 on: April 7, 2015, 06:23:26 pm »
They obviously don't reveal this alien God shite until the higher levels. Surely if that was introduced from the off there would be fuck all signing up.
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Offline nozza

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #242 on: April 7, 2015, 08:08:50 pm »
They got everyone hooked and hoodwinked before the internet, and the religion has been passed down through a generation. Since people have been able to research everything the numbers have been dwindling . They do discourage any member from looking at any articles about the church on line or for that matter anywhere. This latest doc has just exposed more, same with the Panorama doc. Former high ups and celebs tell all in the hbo doc, and most of the time they are getting harassed, followed and filmed by Scientology security. It is nuts  how they have lots of them brainwashed to fuck still.

Offline Livo.85

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #243 on: April 7, 2015, 11:32:58 pm »

Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #244 on: February 15, 2016, 07:51:04 am »

Katie Holmes has put both of her arms high in the air while sticking up both middle fingers to Cruise and Scientology. Cruise's ex-wife co-produced and starred in a new movie about physiology and the fact that medication can help those who might need it.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/NHx7Y_PCwwQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/NHx7Y_PCwwQ</a>

Offline thejbs

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #245 on: February 15, 2016, 11:42:55 am »
If Christianity was the same age as scientology, we'd view it with similar scorn and derision.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #246 on: February 15, 2016, 02:00:57 pm »
If Christianity was the same age as scientology, we'd view it with similar scorn and derision.

The fundamental difference between Christianity and Scientology is that to be a Christian you don't have to pay to go through different levels. In fact you don't have to pay at all.

Christianity was based on early attempts at a pre-scientific explanation of where the world came from and a set of rules for living in the Middle East thousands of years ago. It's true that many dreadful things that have been based on those writings and large amounts of money have been extracted, but that was not the original intention.

Scientology was a callous money-making enterprise from the outset.
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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #247 on: February 15, 2016, 02:06:01 pm »
In addition, Christianity doesn't keep video/audio records of people's detailed issues in order to blackmail them should they wish to leave...
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #248 on: February 15, 2016, 06:19:00 pm »
We dont really know the early intention, its just as likely to have started to control people and take their money as much as scientology does. After all, live like this or go to hell seems pretty controlling to me. All equally as daft for me but to each their own.

Offline vagabond

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #249 on: February 15, 2016, 07:03:26 pm »
We dont really know the early intention, its just as likely to have started to control people and take their money as much as scientology does. After all, live like this or go to hell seems pretty controlling to me. All equally as daft for me but to each their own.

The early Christians were largely converts from the poor and downtrodden in the various world empires that were around the middle east at the time. It appealed to them because, unlike the other polytheistic cults around, it asked for nothing but faith in Christ and had the revolutionary idea that every human life is of equal dignity whether one was a slave or a slave-owner. It was about as far from a money-making enterprise as possible. There's plenty of things to criticize it for, but in its origins it was a paradigm shift in ethical possibilities that had not been seen before.

Of course 3 centuries later, with the conversion of the Roman emperor Constantine, Christians began to enjoy enough political capital to start thinking about making money off their believers and many did.
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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #250 on: February 15, 2016, 07:09:05 pm »
In addition, Christianity doesn't keep video/audio records of people's detailed issues in order to blackmail them should they wish to leave...

Don't know abar that - I've got a few nativity plays on cam-corder that could be used for bribing purposes.


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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #251 on: February 15, 2016, 08:00:10 pm »
The early Christians were largely converts from the poor and downtrodden in the various world empires that were around the middle east at the time. It appealed to them because, unlike the other polytheistic cults around, it asked for nothing but faith in Christ and had the revolutionary idea that every human life is of equal dignity whether one was a slave or a slave-owner. It was about as far from a money-making enterprise as possible. There's plenty of things to criticize it for, but in its origins it was a paradigm shift in ethical possibilities that had not been seen before.

Of course 3 centuries later, with the conversion of the Roman emperor Constantine, Christians began to enjoy enough political capital to start thinking about making money off their believers and many did.
And I'm sure the scientologists believe scientology has a noble and innocent beginning

Offline vagabond

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #252 on: February 15, 2016, 08:04:51 pm »
And I'm sure the scientologists believe scientology has a noble and innocent beginning

I'm not sure it matters what anyone believes. The historical facts are what they are.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #253 on: February 16, 2016, 11:18:43 am »
And I'm sure the scientologists believe scientology has a noble and innocent beginning

Err...


“You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.”

― L. Ron Hubbard

Noble indeed...
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #254 on: February 16, 2016, 12:10:22 pm »
Unsure as to the relevance of that post. I'm not implying scientology is noble? Moreso that its followers will otherwise they wouldn't follow it. Much like how other religions ignore the horrors their religions are based on
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 12:11:56 pm by WillG.LFC »

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #255 on: February 16, 2016, 12:18:32 pm »
Unsure as to the relevance of that post. I'm not implying scientology is noble? Moreso that its followers will otherwise they wouldn't follow it. Much like how other religions ignore the horrors their religions are based on

You replied to vagabond's post about the foundation of Christianity.
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #256 on: February 16, 2016, 12:27:28 pm »
I did indeed, trying to point out religions usually start in the same manner otherwise they wouldn't grow in popularity. Which is why I'm confused by your point as i wasn't implying scientology is noble, rather that few of them are.
Anywho, i find it quite comical reading how people have put comments saying the differences between scientology and other religions. As if Christianity doesnt control people or require them to go through 'levels' to progress. Scientology is at the extermity of religions, the hilarity of its obsurdity is a result of this extremity and simply highlights it in religion as a whole, for me.

Offline thejbs

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #257 on: February 16, 2016, 12:30:25 pm »
Christian churches don't demand money, but they do coerce it out of people.  My parents are devout Catholics.  The church shames people into paying it money - I have seen priests call at our house asking for donations from my pensioner parents. There are monetary conventions that you are expected to honour. You give money to the church for a priest to 'say a mass' for a sick or dying person.  You give money for a priest to say a wedding mass or funeral (as well as pay the church a fee). This annoys me because the Catholic Church is rediculously wealthy, with gold, cash, land, buildings, priceless art, stocks and investments (some of them in less than scrupulous companies and industries), yet they sponge off their parishioners and have them work towards Church maintenance for free. Most of their worldwide workforce (including priests) are employed/paid for by parishioners. When my parent's church needed repairs/renovations 15 years ago, the parish raised the money and local builders did it for cost (many gave up their time for free).  This is a building that is owned by one of the richest 'corporations' in the world.  It's absurd.

Outside of Catholicism, Evangelicals have paid in concerts all over the world.  I'm pretty sure that these profit, rather than cover costs.

Yeah, you can study and become a Christian on your own for the price of a bible, but organised Christianity is intrixically linked with money. Scientology for me, is nowhere near Christian levels of hipocrisy, greed and corruption.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 12:32:41 pm by thejbs »

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #258 on: February 16, 2016, 12:49:04 pm »
I did indeed, trying to point out religions usually start in the same manner otherwise they wouldn't grow in popularity. Which is why I'm confused by your point as i wasn't implying scientology is noble, rather that few of them are.
Anywho, i find it quite comical reading how people have put comments saying the differences between scientology and other religions. As if Christianity doesnt control people or require them to go through 'levels' to progress. Scientology is at the extermity of religions, the hilarity of its obsurdity is a result of this extremity and simply highlights it in religion as a whole, for me.

Do a bit more legwork and you'd understand. I'm an atheist and have strong views about all kinds of religion so I'm not an apologist for the established church. Your points are ill-informed and quite simply, wrong.

Scientology is not a religion in the same sense as Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and so on. It was founded as, and continues to be a money-making cult. You are conflating organised religion - the Church, The Mosque, The Synagogue, The Temple with the religion itself. I could get a free copy of the Bible and teach myself to be a Christian by reading the book. I don't need to get anyone's approval, buy any equipment, or pass any tests. There is no other Book I need to buy.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #259 on: February 16, 2016, 12:50:30 pm »
Christian churches don't demand money, but they do coerce it out of people.  My parents are devout Catholics.  The church shames people into paying it money - I have seen priests call at our house asking for donations from my pensioner parents. There are monetary conventions that you are expected to honour. You give money to the church for a priest to 'say a mass' for a sick or dying person.  You give money for a priest to say a wedding mass or funeral (as well as pay the church a fee). This annoys me because the Catholic Church is rediculously wealthy, with gold, cash, land, buildings, priceless art, stocks and investments (some of them in less than scrupulous companies and industries), yet they sponge off their parishioners and have them work towards Church maintenance for free. Most of their worldwide workforce (including priests) are employed/paid for by parishioners. When my parent's church needed repairs/renovations 15 years ago, the parish raised the money and local builders did it for cost (many gave up their time for free).  This is a building that is owned by one of the richest 'corporations' in the world.  It's absurd.

Outside of Catholicism, Evangelicals have paid in concerts all over the world.  I'm pretty sure that these profit, rather than cover costs.

Yeah, you can study and become a Christian on your own for the price of a bible, but organised Christianity is intrixically linked with money. Scientology for me, is nowhere near Christian levels of hipocrisy, greed and corruption.

The organised Church - not the religion itself.
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #260 on: February 16, 2016, 12:57:39 pm »
Do a bit more legwork and you'd understand. I'm an atheist and have strong views about all kinds of religion so I'm not an apologist for the established church. Your points are ill-informed and quite simply, wrong.

Scientology is not a religion in the same sense as Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and so on. It was founded as, and continues to be a money-making cult. You are conflating organised religion - the Church, The Mosque, The Synagogue, The Temple with the religion itself. I could get a free copy of the Bible and teach myself to be a Christian by reading the book. I don't need to get anyone's approval, buy any equipment, or pass any tests. There is no other Book I need to buy.
Are these the same books that advise stoning and the likes? Heaven and hell?
If so would either of those be classed as controlling to the followers actions or attainable levels?
I don't know of any religion that doesn't say do x to achieve y, with y usually relating to the afterlife. These control its followers to reach different tiers within the religion

Most people will discuss the organised versions as those are the most comparible. You wouldn't say well guns arent the problem, its the bullets.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 01:26:24 pm by WillG.LFC »

Offline thejbs

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #261 on: February 16, 2016, 01:52:48 pm »
The organised Church - not the religion itself.

Hence why I said:
Quote
Yeah, you can study and become a Christian on your own for the price of a bible, but organised Christianity is intrixically linked with money

But the doctrines of organised churches are what have defined Christianity, even for many who don't go to Church. And plenty so-called unaffiliated Christians live their lives in ways which conflict with the teachings that they purport to follow.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #262 on: February 16, 2016, 03:20:42 pm »
Are these the same books that advise stoning and the likes? Heaven and hell?
If so would either of those be classed as controlling to the followers actions or attainable levels?
I don't know of any religion that doesn't say do x to achieve y, with y usually relating to the afterlife. These control its followers to reach different tiers within the religion

Most people will discuss the organised versions as those are the most comparible. You wouldn't say well guns arent the problem, its the bullets.

No offence but I have no idea what you're getting at with the guns and bullets stuff - makes no sense at all. The stuff about punishments only has relevance if you believe that religion is the word of God. Most of the punishment stuff is simply codification of ancient secular laws into a single book. Primitive societies (and less primitive societies) often have brutal punishments. The problem with including them in a religious book is that they become 'the word of God' and therefore cannot be changed. British civil law included horrific and brutal punishments until fairly recent times. We still hanged people until fifty years ago. It was only four hundred years or so since we used to hang draw and quarter people for treason and other serious offences - nothing to do with religion.

And the origin stuff and explanations about where you go when you die (Heaven & Hell) are all pre-scientific explanations from many thousands of years ago and are essentially 'best guesses' borne of ignorance.

Scientology was created by L Ron Hubbard in the 1950s. After Einstein, after Darwin, a very long time after the Industrial Revolution and an even longer time after the Renaissance saw the flowering of science and art in Europe. He first created Dianetics as a pseudo-scientific set of mental health practices and when he went bankrupt, he recast the same nonsense as a religion.

Of course Scientology bears many similarities with religions - because that's exactly what L Ron Hubbard intended. And you can keep re-stating them until you're blue in the face but that doesn't get away from the fundamental differences between Scientology and most religions.
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Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #263 on: February 16, 2016, 04:15:07 pm »
So they are the same books then. You can't just conveniently ignore those parts that were written in a different era. Thats the very thing which makes the decendant organised religions so deadly. That was the bullet and guns referance, you cant say organised religions are the problem and not the material from which they are based, the two go hand in hand just like you wouldnt just blame bullets and not the guns from which they are fired.

As i said earlier scientology is simply an extreme variation and as you admit the creator himself intended it to be that way as he knew its an easy way to manipulate people. Thinking other religions were not used for similar selfish purposes is naive.

thats all i have to say about scientology/religion before this goes around in circles!

Offline Skidder.

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #264 on: December 15, 2017, 10:19:41 am »
I'm sure most have watched - but I've been partaking in some light watching of Leah Rem-something's 'show' about life after Scientology.

Whilst it is interesting, it goes around some of the same circles that have been circled before and adds a little more texture, but I'm under no illusion that this is the Leah Rem-something show. She is irritating from the get-go, but you do find yourself warming to her, but then she says or does something soooooo showbizzy that any (if any) sympathy for her or the others just falls through the cracks and you begin to sort of... ludicrously... believe some of the comments that the 'Church' lobbies against them.

I won't go into detail, because it would look like a character assassination - but either I am a complete ass, or she and the others (not all) are.

She is coming across as a bandwagon jumper and a person who loves the limelight at any cost - which is possibly the reason she joined the cult in the first place. But aside of all that, I am beginning to see why she is pissing them off so much... as fucking idiotic as that may sound.

But not only that, Mike Rinder does one interview where all of his bullshit speeches on motivations of doing this and yearning for justice... they are all undone with one small fact that he just throws into one tiny sentence. I'm sure that this is not across the board, but most of these people are not the whistleblowers that they want to be seen as and are coming across as disgruntled excommunicated members more than anything.

I'd like to see a documentary on the lives that they have ruined through the practices of the cult and the negative things that they have done in the name of their religion, because through these shows, they are propagating the very tenants of Scientology itself, but by other means.

For anyone interested - here are the links.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5b25jv

Edit: I feel that I need to add that I have read Dianetics in my younger years and think that it is a good piece of writing (as fiction, of course), say what you want about Scientology, but L. Ron Hubbard was a good writer (standing on the shoulders of giants of course) - I have been interested in Scientology for a while and even did an audit when younger; however, I do not believe in any of it for a minute and it is as many have said, an organised cult based on a very, very old business model... it's a pyramid scheme for people with a hole in their life.

Edit: A few more episodes in and some of the stories are harrowing - the abuse levels are beyond anything that anything that you have heard before... I am also perturbed to find some sections of Dianetics that have obviously been redacted in later versions - it was a long time ago when I read that book. It was given to me by a person who was connected to them...

I have just seen a section which either I glossed over, didn't read, or was simply redacted in the volume that was given to me - but it is chilling.

"A seven-year-old who shudders because a man kisses her is not computing..."

"At seven, she should see nothing wrong with a kiss, not even a passionate one."

Seriously?

This is what is written in the texts that the whole cult it based on and none of these people questioned that? If you add this to some of the stories that in the Leah Remini documentaries, it begins to paint a very vivid picture of the levels of depravity that this propagates.

This is where the buck will stop with them... if there are more stories of this kind of maltreatment, the house of cards will fall and it is quite clear why Katie Hopkins tried to have a restraining order taken out on Tom Cruise.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:01:33 pm by Kidder. »
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Offline electricghost

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #265 on: December 15, 2017, 10:25:11 pm »

This is where the buck will stop with them... if there are more stories of this kind of maltreatment, the house of cards will fall and it is quite clear why Katie Hopkins tried to have a restraining order taken out on Tom Cruise.


Hopkins and Cruise, must have missed that  ;D
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Offline Skidder.

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #266 on: December 15, 2017, 11:23:03 pm »
Hopkins and Cruise, must have missed that  ;D

I think a lot did - the beating have been public for years, but all this suicide and maltreatment of children (as well as sexual abuse) is all coming out slowly.

Seriously, anyone with a smidgen of interest in this cult should watch the link I posted above if you already haven't - skip the bits with the host as she is as irritating as the Scientologists claim, but it is the stories of the people coming forward that are harrowing... When you hear some of the stories of child abuse, and then see some of the redacted sections of certain texts, it puts it all into a new perspective.

The organisation is a hegemonic and detrimental force on people who are in need (in some form or another) and it would be easy to claim that it is their own faults for signing up. That may be true for a section of people, but it is the people who may or may not have been let down by modern medicine who turn to this who are victims.

Plus, don't forget, a lot of the members of what it is today were born into this - that is a cycle of inherent mind control which young people have been adapted to.

It is infuriating that this organisation has been allowed, yes allowed, to profit in the way that is has and as much as I dislike the host of this show, it really is a good thing that people are speaking publically about their experiences.

One day, someone is going to publically say something about their 'messiah' that will put their phoney 'beliefs' to bed.
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Offline Andy Hunter

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #267 on: December 20, 2017, 09:15:07 am »
Without trying to derail the topic, but is name a play on the song name 'Cult of Personality' ?
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Offline Dench57

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #268 on: December 20, 2017, 10:28:05 am »
Without trying to derail the topic, but is name a play on the song name 'Cult of Personality' ?

Yes Andy. The Cult of Scientology actually came about a year or so after that song was released and was heavily influenced by it.
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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #269 on: December 20, 2017, 03:06:07 pm »
I watched the hbo doc on this last week. What really hits home is how easy it was to brainwash so many. They go after people who leave the church pretty hard, pure fear keeps people in it seems. It is well worth a watch.

Take out the church bit and you have just described the system , mammon etc... only difference is TV is used .
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Offline Ziltoid

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Re: The Cult of Scientology
« Reply #270 on: December 20, 2017, 03:42:09 pm »
Without trying to derail the topic, but is name a play on the song name 'Cult of Personality' ?

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