Topic: Expectations For 2015/16 Season (Brenties Crystal-Ball Thread Mk. II)

[mattD]

Young Scottish coach Ian Cathro has left Valencia as assistant manager. I'd seriously have a look at the guy - very very highly rated coach who did wonders restructuring youth at Dundee Utd and has worked well in La Liga.

[Timbo's Goals]

I can't agree with all of this.

Yes we failed to replace Suarez and that was unforgivable in my opinion.

However, we had forward players who have proven goal records, every single one of them had their worst goal return of their careers. They will not have a worse one either.

Defensively we were terrible, no excuse can be made for some of the goals we were conceding.

You mention Chelsea and Arsenal as sides that would have failed to make top four without a forward outlet, they would have made top four because they would have worked with what they had to ensure they made it.

I also think your expecting quite a bit if you expect two young kids to come in and sort out these problems.

Interesting stuff RK. And thanks for the response. Indeed, I  think the highlighted bits have for the first time provided me with an insight into why so many seem to have closed their mind to what I consider to be the bleeding obvious reason for our season's debacle.

Your points concerning the goalscoring ability of Mario and Ricky at other clubs may well be the case but what I witnessed with my own eyes was all to do with players who simply resembled utter anachronisms to the teamwork, mobility, fight and energy not to mention goal hunger that is currently required in the modern game. They are undoubtedly both blessed with inate skillsets but the  way I saw it John Toshack, lumbering as he was, displayed more fight, mobility and vigour warming up than Mario and Ricky displayed in the games they featured. I just don't accept for a single moment that another manager could have procured blood out of those two stones.

Regarding Arsenal and Chelsea minus the Costas, Drogbas, Remys, Sanchez's, Girouds - we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for the difference between a team with the midfield/attacking balance infused by the addition of Milner, Ings, Origi [full Belgian international] and a full season Ibe and the team that was minus an attacking outlet of last season - again we'll just have to agree to disagree [emphatically]

But thanks again. At least now I can see why so many have completely misread the situation.

 

 

 

[johnny74]

Well said Kcbw.

As it is I'd turn the whole fucking thing on it's head.

If we'd not entirely fucked up the forward outlet aspect last season after losing Suarez and Sturridge does anybody think we'd not have been actually challenging for the top spot?

I have never in all my time as a Red seen so many people - including all the journos - get the core issue so wrong when assessing a Liverpool season or, more specifically, a Liverpool situation.

There is one pivotal reason and one reason alone why we fell short last season and that was because - as myself and Red Mongoose have repeatedly said seemingly to an array of deaf fucking ears - we went for an entire season without a real forward outlet.

Not one game. Not a run of games. Not half a season. But an entire fucking season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How in god's name can any judgement of any sort retain even an ounce of credibility when viewed in such context?!?

And yet every deluded fucker seems to be trying to make such judgements, including smart arse journos like Rory who believe they have unearthed the Dead Sea Breakfast scrolls.

The fact is had Chelsea, City or Arsenal or indeed Man U attempted to do the same as us devoid of a bona fide attacking outlet then like us they too would have struggled to make the top four.

It does not mean that other mistakes were not made. Not least by the manager. It just means that the essence of why our season was such a frustrating failure has fuck all to do with convoluting hypotheses such John Henry and Co's penchant for varying their breakfast menus but everything to do with the fact that the structure which they implemented failed so lamentably to ensure the team on the pitch had the armoury to succeed and thus the one thing every football team requires for that success - namely balance.

And in our particular case that imbalance was due to the ridiculous failure to bring in an attacking outlet/outlets that would have provided it.

And so to the coming season.

As I look at the signings that have already arrived along with Origi and the prospect of a full season Ibe I breathe a huge sigh of relief as they represent exactly the sort of playing strength in exactly the right sort of places in which we were last season crying out for it. There may not be a - god do I despise the term - marquee signing amongst them but by god the four of them represent exactly at this moment the sort of solid and balanced additions we so desperately need.

A further few signings of corresponding solidity and balance plus perhaps a marquee to placate the nouveaus and a top four challenge is a given.

 What? So a squad-player back-up striker and an industrious midfielder are the much needed replacements/back-up for Suarez and Sturridge?

If Lambert (106 goals in 207 games for Southampton) can score 2 goals in 25 appearances and Balotelli (26 in 43 for AC Milan; 20 in 54 for Man City; 20 in 59 for Inter) can score 1 in 15 for us how many will Danny Ings (38 in 122 for Burnley) score?

[tray fenny]

Sixth place, no trophies, Europa league quarters and a new manager before January.

[RK7]

Interesting stuff RK. And thanks for the response. Indeed, I  think the highlighted bits have for the first time provided me with an insight into why so many seem to have closed their mind to what I consider to be the bleeding obvious reason for our season's debacle.

I can't speak for everyone but I certainly haven't closed my mind to the obvious, I just find it's better to seek solutions than make endless excuses.

Your points concerning the goalscoring ability of Mario and Ricky at other clubs may well be the case but what I witnessed with my own eyes was all to do with players who simply resembled utter anachronisms to the teamwork, mobility, fight and energy not to mention goal hunger that is currently required in the modern game. They are undoubtedly both blessed with inate skillsets but the  way I saw it John Toshack, lumbering as he was, displayed more fight, mobility and vigour warming up than Mario and Ricky displayed in the games they featured. I just don't accept for a single moment that another manager could have procured blood out of those two stones.

I said the same about Balotelli probably long before you did, Lambert I think we could have used better and also Borini. Other managers have got more out of them so really you're argument doesn't stand up.

Regarding Arsenal and Chelsea minus the Costas, Drogbas, Remys, Sanchez's, Girouds - we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Those players are recent additions, Arsenal and Chelsea have consistently made top four for years. What they have realised in recent years is that relying on 1 or 2 consistent goal threats isn't enough.

As for the difference between a team with the midfield/attacking balance infused by the addition of Milner, Ings, Origi [full Belgian international] and a full season Ibe and the team that was minus an attacking outlet of last season - again we'll just have to agree to disagree [emphatically]

Are you suggesting they are enough to make top 4? If so I'll have a charity bet with you that it won't be. Lets see how confident you are.

But thanks again. At least now I can see why so many have completely misread the situation.

 

I honestly think you are misreading the situation, I agree goals gives us a much better chance but we have to find a way for those players to score the goals as we did with Suarez and Sturridge.

 

 

[Timbo's Goals]

Not endless excuses at all. Just the underlying reason why last season was so poor.

Re Arsenal and Chelsea - it could go on indefinitely as there's no way of knowing

As for the new players - well I guess we'll have to wait and see eh.

Incidentally - you must have decided pretty early on re mario because I was questioning what he had to offer in that Spurs game that many were raving about!

[Timbo's Goals]

What? So a squad-player back-up striker and an industrious midfielder are the much needed replacements/back-up for Suarez and Sturridge?

Oh aye yeah - that's exactly what I was saying.

Jeez

What's the term - strawman's argument?

If Lambert (106 goals in 207 games for Southampton) can score 2 goals in 25 appearances and Balotelli (26 in 43 for AC Milan; 20 in 54 for Man City; 20 in 59 for Inter) can score 1 in 15 for us how many will Danny Ings (38 in 122 for Burnley) score?

What's the saying - lies, damn lies, statistics and fucking garbage

 

[johnny74]

Oh aye yeah - that's exactly what I was saying.

Jeez

What's the term - strawman's argument?


What's the saying - lies, damn lies, statistics and fucking garbage

 

Well, you know best.

[Scaryscouse]

Too early to say until we see everyone we've brought in. The optimist in me thinks that if the young lads kick on from next season and live up to expectations we might surprise a few people.

A good center back and striker and who knows? But I say that every year.

[No Appreciation of Liverpool Opposition]

think we will end up getting 40 mil for Raheem giving QPR 10 and spending the rest on a top Striker. Will play 4-4-2 with a diamond and struggle to start but find form mid season and nick 4th off a struggling Man U.

[Ken-Obi]

Sixth place, no trophies, Europa league quarters and a new manager before January.

League placing is decided in December?

[SerbianScouser]

As I just watched Denmark-Serbia game one thing I`m expecting for 15/16 is for our coaches and our fans to realize that Lazar Markovic simply is not a winger. The reason why I say that is cause I lost a count of how many times this season that just finished I`ve seen him be totally anaemic and anonymous as a winger. Pace is not enough and you`ve got to have trickery in your arsenal if you want to beat fullbacks.

Funnily enough today the first 15 mins of the second half he happened to play through the middle and actually got involved much more and showed with few flashes that when he backs himself he`s difficult to stop. That`s why I can`t completely rule him out as there really is a player deep down inside of him but if the penny doesn`t drop for him it will be difficult for him to impress.

[Red Sea]

If we sign I appear to be attempting to use a nickname for a new signing that indicates I have no place in civilised society. I would suggest that you ignore the rest of my post, it is probably rubbish. Benteke plus trippier and the like we will be in for an awful season. Looking at anywhere between 6th-10th.

[Kopenhagen]

As I just watched Denmark-Serbia game one thing I`m expecting for 15/16 is for our coaches and our fans to realize that Lazar Markovic simply is not a winger. The reason why I say that is cause I lost a count of how many times this season that just finished I`ve seen him be totally anaemic and anonymous as a winger. Pace is not enough and you`ve got to have trickery in your arsenal if you want to beat fullbacks.

Funnily enough today the first 15 mins of the second half he happened to play through the middle and actually got involved much more and showed with few flashes that when he backs himself he`s difficult to stop. That`s why I can`t completely rule him out as there really is a player deep down inside of him but if the penny doesn`t drop for him it will be difficult for him to impress.

Yeah he's not enough of a dribbler to succeed as a winger. Much better through the middle and looked that way with us last season. He has a fair bit of creativity and tactical intelligence in his locker, and he should have been given more games there last season when we gave up playing a traditional centre-forward. He's probably best as a second-striker, in my opinion. I guess because he's naturally incredibly quick and great at carrying the ball, he's always been shifted out wide?

Wouldn't be surprised if we sold him, which is a shame but I don't think he'll ever impress as a winger here, and his time in the middle will be limited with the likes of Coutinho & Lallana (though I'd be much more invested in playing Lazar there than Lallana...).

[RideTheWalrus]

What I expect is fourth. However, based off our transfers, and rumoured targets and players leaving I'd expect us to finish behind Spurs at 6th/7th.

[SerbianScouser]

I guess because he's naturally incredibly quick and great at carrying the ball, he's always been shifted out wide?

Definitely, we are seeing something similar with Sterling too,  who never dominated games from the wing as he did through the middle at the tip of the diamond.

People here always bemoan how Markovic wasn`t played in his position and even imply the fault maybe with BR , at the same time forgetting there is a very good reason he wasn`t played there as simply he wasn`t good enough not for club nor for his country.

[RideTheWalrus]

Definitely, we are seeing something similar with Sterling too,  who never dominated games from the wing as he did through the middle at the tip of the diamond.

People here always bemoan how Markovic wasn`t played in his position and even imply the fault maybe with BR , at the same time forgetting there is a very good reason he wasn`t played there as simply he wasn`t good enough not for club nor for his country.

He's played in his position about twice. Kid's been shafted.

[Kopenhagen]

Definitely, we are seeing something similar with Sterling too,  who never dominated games from the wing as he did through the middle at the tip of the diamond.

People here always bemoan how Markovic wasn`t played in his position and even imply the fault maybe with BR , at the same time forgetting there is a very good reason he wasn`t played there as simply he wasn`t good enough not for club nor for his country.

Sterling is a better dribbler, though, so I can see the logic with him playing wide over Lazar.

I wouldn't say the "out of position" argument is a criticism, but I think he was generally under-utilized last season. Against Arsenal (A) & Spurs (H), in my opinion, he looked very good in a AM position in the box midfield of the 343, yet he got lambasted by our fans for screwing up a chance. I mean, for me, at least he got into the position to miss.  Toward the backend of last season, I thought it was baffling we never tried him centrally again, or pairing him with Sterling in a 4312 or 352, or something. It's almost as if we gave up and reverted back to something that just wasn't working - 433 with traditional centre forwards... 

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

5th, no cups. Probably a managerial change after its over. 

[SerbianScouser]

All that being said is true, however what is also true is that he failed to take his chance on some occasions. I`m expecting him to show much more determination and aggression in 15/16 preseason to stake his claim as our regular.

[Fairytale of 2005]

More of the same, i.e. a 6th/7th placed finish.

[rickardinho1]

I'll await Brenties post here and then post something similar to make myself look wise in 12 months time

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I have no expectations what so ever. Have no confidence in the club's ability to get it's shit together at all.

[Ken-Obi]

I assume that's your de facto stance on this.

[Eeyore]

To be honest I am not arsed. The only thing that bothers me is that we have a right royal go at it

Because I am sick to death of the lower teams raising their game against us whilst we roll over and die when the going gets tough against the big boys.

We are what we are but lets make the teams above us at least battle for it because United walked into 4th place because we to be frank gifted it to them.

My biggest hope is that we shrug off this inferiority complex and make every opponents game their hardest of the season because lets face it that's the least we deserve.

[artanis]

After they decided to keep Brendan I have no expectations whatsoever.

[elpistolero7]

Similar stuff unless Sturridge is fit for 70%+ of the season.

The manager and the committee are diabolical in the transfer market, and we're about to lose one of the 3 best players currently at the club, to a team that already finished above us last season.

With Europa League football, I doubt we get any better than 5th, and a managerial change at the end of it.

[12Kings]

So far it's not looking great... It was totally unacceptable us not making the cut this season....
Man united were shite we should have took at least 4th. It's 2 steps back from last season, maybe even 4 or 5.
It's a reset, don't want to sound negative but it's starting to look like we will no longer progress forward in terms of football in the league until we consistently invest heavily in top players. It won't happen until we have owners who buy us for the love of football and anything other than trying to make big bucks, because if they haven't got that already it's going to ride on luck and a one season window of opportunity a snatch and grab which will come around maybe once in a decade, we missed it.

So I predict 6th.

[rojo para la vida]

I'm still a bit worse for wear from last night. Apologies, I put this in last years thread and it's now been deleted.



Just started reading this thread and most importantly I'd like Brentie to let us know who's going to win the Gold Cup next week?

I then went on to read the next post of that thread and someone said 'Don't think I will bother after reading this one ...... Going to drink some meths and set fire to my bed', and a week or so ago that would sum up how I felt about the coming season. But it's taken me a few weeks to calm down and I believe that we just might be fighting for a top four place at the end of the season.

The key for me is holding on to Coutinho. I expect someone to come in for him and the club have got to do their best to persuade him that Anfield is where his career will progress best. Phillipe is going to have one hell of a season and if a fully fit Sturridge can contribute, you just never know.

So 4th or 5th place and one cup final, for me but I'd like another bite of the cherry by having a fresh look after the transfers are more or less complete and the fixture list is out. A few difficult away days at the start of the season which don't go our way could easily upset everything.

[LiamG]

5th, Narrowly missing out on the top 4
A cup final
We won't go that far in europe

Rodgers to last the season

[killer-heels]

5th, Narrowly missing out on the top 4
A cup final
We won't go that far in europe

Rodgers to last the season

He will be gone not long after though

[Flight]

Your points concerning the goalscoring ability of Mario and Ricky at other clubs may well be the case but what I witnessed with my own eyes was all to do with players who simply resembled utter anachronisms to the teamwork, mobility, fight and energy not to mention goal hunger that is currently required in the modern game. They are undoubtedly both blessed with inate skillsets but the  way I saw it John Toshack, lumbering as he was, displayed more fight, mobility and vigour warming up than Mario and Ricky displayed in the games they featured.

I saw the same thing you did. Trouble was it was pretty much everyone in the team toward the end of the season. At that point you have to question whether it is down to individuals or something bigger.

Balotelli and Lambert are clearly not one up front players.  Look at Spurs away back in August and take a peek through any match thread or commentary.  Two up front and the superlatives being thrown around about Balotellis work rate, class and ability are plentiful.

[edeyj]

I think we could have a decent season given the players we have and the potential of maybe one or two quality additions (well we can but hope).

However, I think confidence is going to be a big issue after the dismal end to this season. If we don't get off to a decent start then the fans are going to be on to the manager and players backs and then things could spiral down. I hope not but I fear it could happen.

So, I'm going to be an optimist and say we get a decent start. Suffer a dip or two in form but generally do OK. Finish fourth, decent cup runs outside chance of some silverware.

[Scousebeef]

We'll finish 6th again after Rodgers signs Cole Stockton from Tranmere Rovers in January in a quick fix attempt to give us some ammo up front.
Rodgers will have to explain yet another poor season to the owners who will end up backing him anyway as he promises to sign as many free players as he can during the summer transfer window. FSG then steer club off into the sunset with a wealth of history and glory behind it until they sell us to a couple of unscrupulous gangsters when they are skint after the next capitalist banking fuck up!

and it starts all over again... 

[Redrider]

Optimism in short supply at the moment. I expect that we will finish well down the table, and have to endure a lot of p1ss taking from our rivals.
Not sure about FSG and how much appetite they have for 'soccer'. This summer they appear to have had little appetite for change and improvement.

[Mutton Geoff]

Ings gets about 15 goals , Origi is a revelation, Milner is the key to our midfield structure, Mignolet has his best season ever and we learn to defend, we win one maybe two trophies and finish top of the prem, Rodgers signs a new five year contract and a fifth of Rawk stop posting .






















 ah and remember kids don't do drugs!

[Fordy]

I expect a top 4 finish.

However, we will finish 7th or 8th in the league as it stands. Depending on the rest of the transfers we get i could change my mind.

[Stussy]

After they decided to keep Brendan I have no expectations whatsoever.

This has a near Buddhist beauty.

Let go of all expectation, and suffering ends.

So yeah, no expectation, and anything good is a bonus.

[Redrider]

Ings gets about 15 goals , Origi is a revelation, Milner is the key to our midfield structure, Mignolet has his best season ever and we learn to defend, we win one maybe two trophies and finish top of the prem, Rodgers signs a new five year contract and a fifth of Rawk stop posting .
 ah and remember kids don't do drugs!

Have you just come back from the pub?
Agree with Milner, whilst he cannot be classed as visionary signing for the future he will certainly stiffen up mid-field. A bit like throwing another bag of cement into the concrete mix!
Origi seems to have been a 'busted flush' after the World Cup he seems to have forgotten about setting the world on fire and has suddenly become as ordinary as the rest of our recent signings - another loan player coming up.
FSG seem to have lost all ambition. It looks severely as though they are just happy with balancing the books, it seems to me that they will almost welcome a fat fee for Sterling and indeed are happy to offload any of the long standing players such as Skrtel if they cannot negotiate a lower paid contract with them.
Reading the runes for next season I see far many more negatives than I do positives.
This does not feel like Liverpool Football Club, I cannot think of any other close season where I have ever felt that there would not be good reasons for taking an optimistic view of the forthcoming season.
Then again maybe a small bout of realism is good for the soul and we should maybe leave the dreams to those who either have no hope or those that have built up expectations so high that they can only fall.

[Mutton Geoff]

whoosh ha ha too easy   


remember don't do Drugs