Author Topic: Is this the club I grew up watching?  (Read 6817 times)

Offline Kopite

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Is this the club I grew up watching?
« on: April 17, 2004, 11:40:31 am »
Last night I was out having a Smirnoff Ice or five in Prestatyn (indeed I saw the girl who plays/played "Katie Rogers" in Brookside) when an old school friend came up to me and reminisced about our school/college days in the mid to late 80's.

"You were an absolute fanatic, all you ever talked about was Liverpool Football Club."

(Needless to say I was extremely popular with the ladies). ;)

I've followed the Reds for all of my life, from standing in the Kop as a toddler (my dad was a nut too) in 1973 until last season (I still have a season ticket).  In that time I have witnessed some of the finest football ever played on this planet. 

I've seen us win the League Title with almost clockwork timing, European Cup's, FA Cup's and League (insert any sponsor with more than 15p and three Dime bars) Cups.

I've been privileged to watch some of the finest footballers to grace the footballing stage - Keegan, Clemence, Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, Rush, Barnes, Beardsley, Whelan, Fowler, Owen, Heskey (;))

I've also seen tragedy at Heysel and Hillsborough.

Apart from the vintage that was 1987/88 I would have to say that 2000/01 was my favourite season following the Reds.   The drama of that season will live with me for a long time as to will the performances by, as a very esteemed Red (Mr Alan Edge no less) once said to me (and who could argue) "the hardest working Liverpool team he had witnessed".

2001/02 wasn't as successful trophy-wise, but as a team we grew and were only pipped to the title by an outstanding Arsenal team.  The point’s tally we gained would have won us the league in many of the Premiership seasons gone by, but we were faced by a truly outstanding team.  This was the season were we lost our guiding light for 6 months.  Gerard Houllier came back on "that night against Roma" and guided us into the quarterfinals of the Champions League.

Summer 2002 and the Far East came, and we all drooled over Diouf as he tore France to pieces - yet another Gerard Houllier masterstroke I thought.  Bruno Cheyrou also joined after an extremely promising Champions League campaign for Lille.  We also signed Salif Diao, scorer of one of the best goals in the 2002 World Cup.  Sadly we failed to get Damian Duff who, I believe, would have made a truly massive difference.  We also didn't turn Nicolas Anelka's stay into a permanent one.

Last season was poor make no bones about it.  Going out of the Champions League to a truly ordinary Basel team was hard to take, as were lacklustre performances and our worse run in the league for half century.

The signings many of us thought would take us from runners-up to Champions failed to sparkle, and indeed turned us into UEFA Cup Qualifiers.

Last summer saw the purchases of Harry Kewell and Steve Finnan.  GH could really not afford to spend money on potential; he had to get the "real deal".  Both proven, and indeed in their respective positions - two of the best players in the Premiership.

Sadly this season has been a continuation of the last, rather than the "blip" we all thought it would be.

Gerard Houllier has to take much of the blame.  His signings haven't done the business and the marauding Heskey of Treble season has given way to a timid, lumbering source of amusement.  Even Michael Owen is looking ordinary, and this was a man who three years ago none of us would have dared contemplate swapping for Henry or Van Nistlerooy.

If (and it's a big 'IF') he is manager next season he is going to be under huge pressure to deliver.  His summer transfer dealings are going to be the most crucial of any Liverpool manager since the greatest manager ever (in my opinion) bought St. John and "the colossus" that was Ronnie Yeats.

The imminent arrival of Cissé should give us pace, power and more importantly a goalscoring partner for Owen.  The move for Mexes is welcome as we need to be more mobile all around the park.  The team also need to be playing 10 yards higher up the pitch so we can compress the play.  By doing this teams will not be faced with a cavernous gap between our attack and midfield, allowing them time and space in which to play.  It will ultimately offer more support to the attack rather than the isolation and long balls we have seen for two seasons.

I'd like to see us try and move for someone like Malbranque of Fulham.  A player of his calibre should be brought in whilst we ship out the dross that is Diao, Biscan and Danny Murphy.  Also packing their bags should be Heskey who has simply not done it for us consistently for THREE years.

I feel Gerard Houllier has the ability to make us a great team as he proved it in Treble Season.  However he needs to be totally ruthless towards the players who have so badly let him down.

I have to be honest and say I like Gerard Houllier immensely as a man.  I don't analyse and dissect every sound byte or comment that he makes as football managers more often than not speak a steaming pile of dog's do-ings.  I also feel there has been a campaign in the press (not helped by the official site) of taking a comment in total isolation and making him look utterly ridiculous.  I've seen countless posts ripping the man to pieces where people (including some fans) have taken a comment in the middle of an interview (where it has a context) and ripped the man to pieces.  This is not fair, and does us no credit.

I've also read Liverpool fans calling him "Foullier" or far, far worse.

FFS the man is not deliberately trying to ruin our football club.

Gerard Houllier hasn't sold his story for 30 pieces of Silver to that odious rag.

He's the manager of a football club, not Adolf Hitler!

So why all the vitriol?

This is the one thing that has made me question my support for Liverpool Football Club more than anything else. 

Where has all this naked and disgusting abuse come from?

I am not advocating keeping the man.  I have to be brutally honest and say that I do have my doubts as to whether he has lost the players.  In his defence he has won us trophies and given us back our pride after the dark days of Souness and "the Spice Boys" (where the lunatics really did run the asylum).

My other concern is what I would call the "Ferguson factor".  During the 87/88 vintage season Man Utd (in Slur Ex-Lax's 1st season) finished 2nd to King Kenny's Rampant Reds.  Obviously their expectations were raised, but in the following two seasons Man Utd finished 11th and 13th respectively and this was after Slur Brown Pants spent a small fortune on the likes of Webb, Phelan and Danny Wallace.  The football Man Utd played was lacking in both imagination and passion, indeed in March 1990 they played Everton at Old Trafford and were just above the relegation zone.  I forget the times that "Fergie" was one game away from the sack.  A Mark Robins goal at the City Ground in early 1990 saved his job, Utd won the cup and the rest is, sadly, history.

My point is the Man Utd board didn't sack him because they could see the work that was going on behind the scenes like the improvements in coaching and the youth set up, and the removal of the cancer if ill-discipline from the club (the legendary drinking culture of Robson and Whiteside). 

Just perhaps the board can see this and feel that they have the right man for the job rather than being in a state of inertia?

Whatever it is the abuse aimed at Gerard Houllier is well out of order.

Flame away by all means.

All the best,


Col.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2004, 01:50:23 pm by Kopite »
"You can't show your grandchildren your medal for getting fourth place." Steven Gerrard, Liverpool Captain and European Cup Winner.

Offline Rashid

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2004, 11:55:02 am »
Jesus Christ, Col - YOu can write more than 10 words? Very impressed with that lot and even gave me a sense of optimism.

The comparison with Fergy's plight is a good one but I still do not think it is valid - Fergy and Ron Saunders are the only two managers of the last 30 years to win a league after being over 5 years in charge. It is not the norm, the norm is that most managers who win leagues do so in their first few seasons.

Also, if we moved GH upstairs - we would keep all the background work going, the scouting and youth development - but like tha France tea, of 1994 - we need a new leader to win us the big one. IMO.

Great post though mate.

Offline Spartacus.

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2004, 12:04:18 pm »
Very good post - tried to say something similar about the petty name calling and all the stupid insults that fly round.

Good read  :)
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Offline Kopite

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2004, 12:20:06 pm »
Jesus Christ, Col - YOu can write more than 10 words? Very impressed with that lot and even gave me a sense of optimism.

The comparison with Fergy's plight is a good one but I still do not think it is valid - Fergy and Ron Saunders are the only two managers of the last 30 years to win a league after being over 5 years in charge. It is not the norm, the norm is that most managers who win leagues do so in their first few seasons.

Also, if we moved GH upstairs - we would keep all the background work going, the scouting and youth development - but like tha France tea, of 1994 - we need a new leader to win us the big one. IMO.

Great post though mate.

Like I said last week Rash - ho's and narcotics (plus the Stella that I have in my hand - for medicinal purposes you know ;))
"You can't show your grandchildren your medal for getting fourth place." Steven Gerrard, Liverpool Captain and European Cup Winner.

Offline adamski

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2004, 12:25:28 pm »
Excellent post.


Offline koolkamal

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2004, 12:55:46 pm »
Thats a good post. I suppose alot of people feel the same way, just maybe not able to put it into words. There's alot wrong with the team recently, but I feel that even with all the frustration, name calling and insults is just not right. Also I feel that match going fans should atleast try and give the team all the support they can. Maybe its easy for me to say that because Im not a match going fan, but If I went to games, I'd given all the support I can.
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Offline Col

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2004, 01:03:42 pm »
A great read, Col.

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I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2004, 01:10:19 pm »
I'm not sure we have enough space on this forum for two Cols :P

Good read, thanks.

Gareth (not a Col)

Offline Kopite

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2004, 01:12:12 pm »
I'm not sure we have enough space on this forum for two Cols :P

Good read, thanks.

Gareth (not a Col)

You can be an honorary Col though.

Just send a cheque for £100 to:

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"You can't show your grandchildren your medal for getting fourth place." Steven Gerrard, Liverpool Captain and European Cup Winner.

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2004, 01:15:31 pm »
<--------------

Or I can just give myself a new custom title :D

Offline Kopite

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2004, 01:16:59 pm »
<--------------

Or I can just give myself a new custom title :D

Bloody mods - scum of the Earth.


Col (not a mod on "Red All Over The Land" - er honest) ;)
"You can't show your grandchildren your medal for getting fourth place." Steven Gerrard, Liverpool Captain and European Cup Winner.

Offline Sami

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2004, 01:23:08 pm »
<--------------

Or I can just give myself a new custom title :D

 ;D
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Offline Kopite

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2004, 01:25:21 pm »


 ;D

Ron and Jenna - what a combination ;)
"You can't show your grandchildren your medal for getting fourth place." Steven Gerrard, Liverpool Captain and European Cup Winner.

Offline Sami

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2004, 01:41:08 pm »


Ron and Jenna - what a combination ;)

Yep, two great ones ;D
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Offline Col

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2004, 01:56:17 pm »
And now we have 3 Cols. Always knew I had a following ;)
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Offline Jimbo.

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2004, 02:02:18 pm »
Good read.
Breath of fresh air from recent weeks.
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Offline Kopite

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2004, 08:07:22 pm »
That was a fantastic read. I've been trying to say something similar for ages, but just couldnt! I think it was an excellent post, and it sums up my feelings about the whole situation.

Thanks Col. :)

P.S. Do you mind if I repost it on a couple of other forums?

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Offline Joshytoohotty

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2004, 10:40:09 pm »
That's an excellent post mate.

And you're absolutely right, the abuse hurled at Houllier is totally out of order. I've always said that and I always will do. I know it's been said a lot but this is a bloke who nearly died for this club and people are treating him like a peice of dirt.

As far as his managerial abilitys, today and Monday really have made me doubt them. I love the thought of him turning it all around, but I don't see it happening.

Only time will tell, but Mr. Houllier has my full support whilst he remains a part of this football club.
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Offline Paul Ando

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2004, 12:51:41 am »
Good post, restored a degree of optimism- but i still dont think Mr. Houllier is up to it. But there would be nothing better than to win the title under Gerard after the flack this man has taken.
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Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2004, 02:10:20 am »

Very well put. :) :wave

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Offline Kopite

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2004, 01:06:39 pm »
To everyone,

Thanks very much for your praise it is much appreciated.#

I've finally managed to get onto the Newsnow feed without coming clean and saying I had an affair with David Beckham (the b*stard never returned my texts ;))

All the best,


Col.
"You can't show your grandchildren your medal for getting fourth place." Steven Gerrard, Liverpool Captain and European Cup Winner.

Offline drewser

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2004, 04:06:36 pm »
Excellent post.
Grew up with the same memories amd could'nt have put it better.

Offline Steve_M

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2004, 05:17:57 pm »
Interesting post, Col.

I've seen the argument about Fergie being given time when a lot of MU fans wanted him sacked, but I sometimes wonder if another manager had taken over in 1990, would he have been successful?  Pure speculation of course, but within a few years Beckham, Butt, Scholes, the Nevilles all came through.  Did having Fergie as manager make that much difference as opposed to, say George Graham or Dalglish.?

Offline Chris Barrett

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2004, 10:11:47 pm »
I heard this site was pro GH and by the replies this post is receiving it´s defo true.  I´ve been a supporter since 1977 when I was 8 yrs, so I was around when we dominated.  I must disagree with you about the 2000-2001 side, they played the same boring stuff we´ve had to endure for GH´s entire reign, and I agree with a lot of people that say that had we won that would have been the worst championship team in history, not that I ever believed we would nick it.  For you and other supporters to even contemplate GH staying on for another season is amazing to me, this is a guy that constantly has played the wrong players in the wrong positions, plays kick and run but still goes out at signs continental type players which of course proof inefficient playing his football.  Perhaps our best football (not by much though) came when he was ill.  To put it simply, the evidence concerning his lack of managerial skills is staggering, and how anyone, let alone a supporter fails to spot this is amazing.  Supporters of other teams that I meet regularly have even stopped saying they want him to stay on as LFC manager, they say the league is poorer for it, the really want a LFC side that will challenge, and that hasn´t really happened so far under GH, and certainly will not in the future.

Offline Rushian

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2004, 11:24:55 pm »
Chris - take a look down a lot of the other posts/articles before making such a judgement. I'd say 80-85% of the posters want a change and over 90% of those who run the site want a new manager.

I also started supporting LFC around the same time as you, the year earlier and I'm a year older. I've seen the good times and the bad ("Sun"ess).

This season has been shite and I've written as such. However I'd disagree that 2001 was "boring" and that we played our best football when he was ill (for a large part of that from the Fulham 0-0 onwards till the New Year and the unexpected Manc result we were appalling under Thommo) - our best football was at teh end of the season which with the start of the next led to a run of 22 wins 4 draws and 1 defeat in 27 league games. Of course after this came not one league win in 12, our worst run in 50 years. Since then we've been mediocre at best and change has to happen.

Got to say I've never heard anyone say "had we won that would have been the worst championship team in history".
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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2004, 12:00:43 am »
2001 wasn´t good re:the quality of football, as someone said, clubs that play like LFC shouldn´t win titles.  We were hardly a joy to watch in 2001 or any other year under GH.  We didn´t win a lot of people over in the treble season did we?  The author of "Is this the........" seems to have his rose tinted glasses on when he looks back on a lot of things in GH and his team.  I´ve supported LFC for close to 30 yrs, I was happy when GH came over, but I said in 99 that this man would never win us the title and he had to be replaced, in fact I was so infuriated by his methods that I said he was one of the biggest idiots in football.  Nothing GH has done since has made me change my opinion of him, of course the treble season made me think, but there was nothing about that team that convinced me we were on the right track, we just weren´t nearly good enough to win the league, and that has been my feeling every season under GH.  Not long into GH´s reign Andy Gray wrote an article saying GH had gotten away with murder so far at LFC, my sentiments exactly.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2004, 12:16:09 am »
We have never been a side known for great football under GH, but I could live with that early on. I expected us to take steps in the right direction and things did point in the right direction. We got the results and boy did we want them after all those years. To GH's credit, he made us successful again and the first trophies are always very difficult to win. But the better football, the actual progress, has not come and we have been found out.

Why is GH getting so much abuse? I think it's because he sends double messages. It is certainly NOT just because of the results over the past two years.

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Offline s51233

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2004, 03:28:16 pm »
deliberate or not, he is ruining the club...

honestly u couldnt find a premiership manager's excuse more ridiculous than GH, he is a master at that... i can safely say nobody is nitpicking or taking it out of context... whats with those wind, temperature, pitch excuses?

as for his getting "back our pride" after the dark days of Souness, actually we are now the laughing stock of premiership, no team respect us, no team fear us; mediocre teams can realistically expect to get something out of anfield; fortress anfield is no longer; and we play some of the george graham style of boring and cowardly footy. Pride? Respect? I would say we are now worse off than the darkest days of Souness era.

even his mini-treble year are full of luck, playing boring footy... i really see no reason to believe he could win the title "at some stage", ever

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« Last Edit: April 19, 2004, 04:14:13 pm by s51233 »

Offline Steve_M

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Re: Is this the club I grew up watching?
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2004, 09:00:12 pm »
and we play some of the george graham style of boring and cowardly footy.

Two championships says Graham knew what he was doing.  They may not have been glamorous, but that midfield which contained Rocastle, Davis, and Thomas was bloody good.  Seen us win championships in the best with teams which weren't exactly riveting, but effective and efficient.