Topic: Proof that the FA is an Utter disgrace. please read

[waffle]

Taken from the FA website
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/ContactUs/Postings/2004/03/European_Places.htm

Number of places available: 4

 

Eligibility



The UEFA Champions League is open to each national association's domestic champions, as well as clubs who finish just behind them in the domestic championship table.

The number of clubs that can be entered by an association and their entry point in the competition depends on the association's position in UEFA's coefficient ranking list.

 

Who’s in?



The top two Premier League sides will qualify for the competition automatically, while the third and fourth placed teams will enter initially into the qualification rounds, as Chelsea and Newcastle United did this season.


What if?

Should Arsenal or Chelsea win the Champions League, they will automatically qualify for next season's competition but England will not gain an extra Champions League place, even if they finish outside of the top four in the Premier League.

In that scenario the fourth-placed team in the Premier League will play in next season's UEFA Cup.

Proof that the FA is biased

[MasterJ]

Scandal

[waffle]

its so obvious that the 'big 3' are favoured

[Andy J]

That is actually very very extremely massively scandalousistic.

[The Finn]

I will enjoy watching them try to explain this. Has the situation changed in the 12 months since you made that statement, or is the Premier League now about 3 clubs?

[silver 5 star]

its so obvious that the 'big 3' are favoured

BIG 3!!

Only Utd can even be mentioned in the same breath as US.

[MasterJ]

I've e-mailed Sky Sports and the ECHO already...Don't know if it will make any difference tho.

[waffle]

BIG 3!!

Only Utd can even be mentioned in the same breath as US.

True thats why i used the ditto marks

[FinnishRed]

 they really are a discgrace. the whole saga tells it very clearly..

 

[Paul]

this page will be removed from the web very quickly - someone should make a screenshot / copy

[lurker]

On another point, that article states....

The number of clubs that can be entered by an association and their entry point in the competition depends on the association's position in UEFA's coefficient ranking list.

What have Everton ever contributed to the FA's coefficient... minus figures I'd say!

Oh how I would laugh if the FA were reduced to 3 places, because their coefficient was bolloxed up by allowing Everton in ahead of us! We're a major contributor to that rather healthy coefficient - I hope the bitters are grateful if they do manage to secure fourth!

... which they won't, of course... 

[Rizla]

this page will be removed from the web very quickly - someone should make a screenshot / copy

Somebody on the BBC site already has!

Cant honestly believe nobody had spotted this before...It could mushroom in to a major scandal and blow the FA's stance out of the water!

[Forever Red]

What if?

Should Arsenal or Chelsea win the Champions League, they will automatically qualify for next season's competition but England will not gain an extra Champions League place, even if they finish outside of the top four in the Premier League.

In that scenario the fourth-placed team in the Premier League will play in next season's UEFA Cup.

 
For fucksake whats going on? The FA are all fucking two faced yellow bellied hypocrite bastards........who would shag their granny if it got them cuedos with Arsenal, the Mancs or Chelsea.

[kopite 1]

the best thing to do is to snub the world club championship match if we win the cup cos we will be pressured to go to help the athletics bid like united were pressured to in 2000

[Pyro]

Absolute scandal. They should all be shot.

[Beef]

The thread is already been started. Sorry for being a spoilsport but there is only a certain amount of times that you can post your opinion in the many FA or CL threads that have been started and as I said many times before,

The FA's decision is a load of shit although they have suggested that if, no sorry, WHEN Liverpool win the CL then they will reccomend that Liverpool go through in the top 5 from the Premier League and not the top 4. As much as I like this idea, will 5 have to go in from all of the other countries or it will be an odd number, as you can tell I am confused???!!

[redtel]

I think Rick Parry and the board will be preparing their case right now. They may wait until after May 25th to go ahead with it.

What sticks in my throat is that if the Blue Crap moneybags had won it last year, which was possible but for  the cock ups v Monaco , we could have ended up in the Uefa Cup if they had finished 5th!

It defies all reason and fair play and I reckon we could sue for loss of income given the precedents of this plus Madrid in 2000.  I reckon the club will keep its powder dry for now.

FA= FUCKIN ARSOLES. 

[Beef]

The top four isnt even that good anyway, Manchester Utd are going downhill, Chelsea have a decent chance, Arsenal are good but not brilliant and it is just laughable that Everton are at number 4, most of the table is upside fucking down! :lol:

[Props]

That is shocking

[SMD]

Where is it on the BBC?

[SMD]

Emailed it to Football365. Might stand more chance of getting on.

Could one of the mods write a short piece to go in the Opinion folder, then? It'd go on Newsnow and stuff, right?

Edit: Oh and someone get it on the Official site.

[liverpoolpaddy's son]

Fucking Arseholes

[ttnbd]

Erm excuse me but you may want to read this from back in february (supposedly)

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsFromTheFA/Postings/2005/02/EuropeanQualification.htm

English National Association - European Places

As a result of England's place in the UEFA Coefficient Rankings, England has four places in the UEFA Champions League and three places in the UEFA Cup.

Champions League

England is entitled to four places in the Champions League.
At the start of the season these places are allocated to the top four-placed teams in the Premier League.
If an English team wins the Champions League and finishes in the top four, we do not gain an extra place.
This season's qualifiers: Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United
One place to be confirmed.
UEFA Cup

England is entitled to three places: one for the fifth-placed team in the Premier League, one for The FA Cup, and one for the League Cup.
If the winners of The FA Cup have qualified for Europe by other means, then the runners-up take their UEFA Cup place. If this team has also already qualified, then the UEFA Cup place goes to the next-placed team in the Premier League.
If the winners of the League Cup have qualified for Europe by other means, then the runners-up do not take their UEFA Cup place: the UEFA Cup place goes to the next-placed team in the Premier League.
If an English team wins the UEFA Cup and qualifies for the Champions League by their Premier League placing, then they qualify for the Champions League. If they win the UEFA Cup and qualify for the UEFA Cup through the Premier League or the cup competitions, then England does not gain an extra place. If they have not qualified for Europe through the Premier League or the cup competitions, then they qualify for the UEFA Cup as an extra team.
With Chelsea winning the League Cup and Manchester United or Arsenal winning The FA Cup, the three UEFA Cup places will go to the Premier League's 5th, 6th and 7th placed sides.
Fair Play

In addition, three places in the UEFA Cup are reserved for Fair Play placings.
UEFA compile a Fair Play table of countries based on the performances of their national teams and clubs in Europe - click here for the latest table. 
The top-placed team in the top-placed country's Fair Play table then qualifies.
Furthermore, the remaining countries with a Fair Play coefficient above eight points in the UEFA table are put into a pot from which two countries are drawn and their "fairest" teams also qualify. Click here to link through to the Premier League website where you can download the latest Premier League fair play table.
Intertoto Cup

England has two places in the Intertoto Cup.
Clubs in the Premier League who finish above the bottom three places (i.e. are not relegated) are eligible to apply for a place.
The places in the competition go to the two sides that finish highest in the Premier League of those that applied for a place.

How the system works - The UEFA Coefficient Rankings

The UEFA Coefficient Ranking of UEFA member associations, compiled according to clubs' performances in Europe, is the system by which places in UEFA's European competitions are determined.

UEFA recently published the latest version of the Coefficient table which saw Spain remain at the top of the table, with England having taken second position from Italy.

This final version was used to establish seedings for the participants in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Cup this season (2004/05) and also determines the number of entries per competition for member associations in 2005/06.

Calculation method


Performances by clubs in the Champions League and UEFA Cup but not results obtained in the UEFA Intertoto Cup, conspire to form the annual UEFA Association Coefficient Rankings table, with the 'oldest' season dropped each time for the purpose of the calculation.
Coefficient value

The points obtained each season by the clubs representing a national association are first added together, then divided by the combined number of clubs from the said association having taken part in the two UEFA club competitions in question to produce the coefficient value of the national association concerned.
Table of coefficients

The table of coefficients, which are calculated to the thousandth and not rounded up, is compiled as follows:
a win is worth 2 points (1 point for qualifying-round matches)
a draw is worth 1 point (1/2 point for qualifying-round matches)
a defeat is worth 0 points.
Extra points

Clubs which reach the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final of the Champions League or UEFA Cup are awarded an extra point for each such round.
In addition, one point is awarded for participation in the Champions League.
Final decision

In the case of equal coefficients, the UEFA Administration will take a final decision, taking into consideration the individual coefficient of the most recent season.
Games or competitions decided by penalty kicks do not affect the results of a match and points are only awarded for games which have been played in accordance with the results ratified by UEFA.
UEFA Club Competitions Associations' Coefficient Ranking

Current Top 10

Posn Assoc. +/- 99/00 00/01 01/02 02/03 03/04 Total
1  Spain
 = 18.571 16.611 14.857 15.500 14.312 79.851
2  England
 +1 14.500 14.166 11.571 10.666 11.250 62.153
3  Italy -1 12.000 9.812 12.571 15.928 8.875 59.186
4  Germany = 11.071 11.062 13.500 9.142 4.714 49.489
5  France = 10.285 9.500 7.125 7.916 13.500 48.326
6  Portugal +1 5.833 6.125 9.375 10.750 10.250 42.333
7  Greece -1 5.416 6.750 11.250 7.166 4.166 34.081
8  Holland = 6.250 6.083 10.166 6.166 5.416 34.081
9  Czech Rep. +3 8.000 6.000 5.500 6.200 7.375 33.075
10  Turkey = 7.750 7.750 5.625 4.666 6.500 32.291

[Felix]

Erm excuse me but you may want to read this from back in february (supposedly)

Which bit should we be looking at? It doesn't seem to deal with the scenario we are discussing (Champions League winners finish outside of top four).

[Rizla]

The issue of this thread is not whether the winner gets an automatic CL spot, it's how the FA exercise that choice, and by the link at the top, it is obvious that they have moved the goalposts here

Nothing in ttnbd's post suggests that anything has changed here...except the FA deciding that they can afford to have a conscience as

''after all, it's only Liverpool'' 

[-HH-]

Champions League

England is entitled to four places in the Champions League.
At the start of the season these places are allocated to the top four-placed teams in the Premier League.
If an English team wins the Champions League and finishes in the top four, we do not gain an extra place.
This season's qualifiers: Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United
One place to be confirmed.

It doesn't matter, the fact of the matter is that last season the FA can be proved to have stated that if a club won the CL that season and finished outside the top 4 the 4th placed team would drop to the UEFA giving the winners a place.

What has changed this season?

[zigackly]

this page will be removed from the web very quickly - someone should make a screenshot / copy

Got it: http://www.cheshirecat.tv/gobshites.jpg

[Barley]

It doesn't matter, the fact of the matter is that last season the FA can be proved to have stated that if a club won the CL that season and finished outside the top 4 the 4th placed team would drop to the UEFA giving the winners a place.

What has changed this season?

Expect some obscure link to the 'amended' guidelines to miraculously appear in their CL rules over the next few days.

It would be prudent for the club to download the ENTIRE FA website as a matter of urgency, and have it also downloaded by at least two other independant sources, like a firm of solicitors.

There's nothing in their February page which in any way makes reference to and subsequently supercedes the original. They obviously forgot about it.

[Rizla]

Expect some obscure link to the 'amended' guidelines to miraculously appear in their CL rules over the next few days.

It would be prudent for the club to download the ENTIRE FA website as a matter of urgency, and have it also downloaded by at least two other independant sources, like a firm of solicitors.

There's nothing in their February page which in any way makes reference to and subsequently supercedes the original. They obviously forgot about it.

Maybe one of us could do it...if you have enough paper, that is!

[kenny78]

Dont care lets just win it and watch them squirm

YNWA

[Rizla]

Either way...there is bound to be a messy yet necessary legal dispute arising in the event of us winning

But even if we dont...I still think it would be ridiculous for the FA to escape unscathed from this whole situation with this blatant example of 'double standards'!

Make it public NOW...and shame them!

[Dave D]

At first I thought this was just another joke link, but it's the real thing. It's absolutely disgraceful, I'm writing to the F.A. right now. Double standards. This shows just how unprofessional and chaotic the association is. They clearly made provisions last season if Arsenal or Chelsea won the CL. They would be put in at the expense of the 4th place team (guess who that was).

[Hattori Hanzo]

anyone know our legal position on this?

since when have we stopped being a big team? since  when did people stop liking us? fuckin upsetting, if it was black and white then fine, but its favoritsm, and that aint right

[lukas]

Will it make any difference that its from last year ?  (the article that is)

[Rizla]

In the event of going to court, I do have a suspicion the FA will try to plead a 'clerical error' and argue that the author of the piece was just some daft eejit who got his facts wrong

which I guess is possible...but very unlikely IMO, whole episode sounds very fishy to me and probably would to a judge

[Dave D]

Will it make any difference that its from last year ?  (the article that is)

No, it will just strenghten our case, and prove the F.A. are a biased association that can pick and choose the rules to suit themselves and certain other clubs. It shows instability and inconsistancy within the association.

[baz]

Got it: http://www.cheshirecat.tv/gobshites.jpg

this is such a joke. BUT..i reckon..the Magpies beat the bitters. We beat the Arse esp. after Wenger took the absolute proverbial out of our team. Then its game on..and i really reckon we'll get fourth. So come on you Mighty Reds.

At least if we dont make it we are still in this years CL. You have to be in it to win it. And this must be as good a chance as any to do that.

Rafael Benitez vs Carlo Ancelloti...
Liverpool FC vs ACMIlan..

We have a damn good chance.

[lukas]

No, it will just strenghten our case, and prove the F.A. are a biased association that can pick and choose the rules to suit themselves and certain other clubs. It shows instability and inconsistancy within the association.

Definately, i was just unsure wheter it wil affect it because its from last year, you make a very good point mate

[D Coop Ulster]

hopefully we'll still get 4th but after reading that article from the fa website im disgusted by there change of tune.lets hope the club have seen it as well and can make an issue out of this scandal.

[baz]

hopefully we'll still get 4th but after reading that article from the fa website im disgusted by there change of tune.lets hope the club have seen it as well and can make an issue out of this scandal.

here here. I cant believe it especially after reading all the stuff regarding last years fa stuff